Coroners Report released - GRAPHIC CONTENT (Threads merged)

[Ashtanga]

so what about the curls that came back n early june. that was a weave extensions from ppl who were with him

I always believed that straight hair was wig. But....

And that hair is so natural (TII) to me and does not seem the least bit like a wig. I watched carefully the movie and that hair is very natural to be a wig.

 

[ginvid]

That's the point of a wig to look very realistic. They look good on Beyonce as well. but you don't see her hair, those are all lace wigs. Black American hair is very kinky. To have a weave, the hair would have to be either all shaved with the tracks glued in or the hair is braided with the tracks sewn on. People confuse them all of the time. I wear them all of the time so i am familiar with every application. If you do not wear them they seem so similar that you may call them the same thing but they are actually very different.

if you look at my picture on my profile page, that is not my hair. That is a weave. (not to tell all of my business, but there you have it). Since my hair is not processed, I have to press my natural hair to blend in with the straight hair. Mj could not do that because as soon as any moisture hits it (like humidity, sweat) your natural texture gradually comes back and will not blend in with either the straight hair or the curly straight hair.

The only way to go fom having curls that are loose like TII to have tightly coiled hair like the autopsy is to shave all of it off and have it grow back like that in a few days. it could not happen.

I hope I have explained myself well. Weather he wore a wig or weave does not change what happened. I just wanted you guys to be informed.

 

[Ashtanga]

That's the point of a wig to look very realistic. They look good on Beyonce as well. but you don't see her hair, those are all lace wigs. Black American hair is very kinky. To have a weave, the hair would have to be either all shaved with the tracks glued in or the hair is braided with the tracks sewn on. People confuse them all of the time. I wear them all of the time so i am familiar with every application. If you do not wear them they seem so similar that you may call them the same thing but they are actually very different.

if you look at my picture on my profile page, that is not my hair. That is a weave. (not to tell all of my business, but there you have it). Since my hair is not processed, I have to press my natural hair to blend in with the straight hair. Mj could not do that because as soon as any moisture hits it (like humidity, sweat) your natural texture gradually comes back and will not blend in with either the straight hair or the curly straight hair.

The only way to go fom having curls that are loose like TII to have tightly coiled hair like the autopsy is to shave all of it off and have it grow back like that in a few days. it could not happen.

I hope I have explained myself well. Weather he wore a wig or weave does not change what happened. I just wanted you guys to be informed.

Thanks for your explanation. I understand that wig looks like a natural hair.....

But it really makes no sense to me Michael is bald, as it says the autopsy. Michael has always had a lot of hair that has always been bulky and and none of his brothers are bald. Michael was suffering from a major hair loss that left him bald. :doh: It does not really convince me. -_-

There are so many things that leave a big question mark flashing before my eyes. :bugeyed

 

[ginvid]

The autopsy doesnot say he is bald. "It says his hair is sparse and connected to a wig. it also says there was frontal balding and the remaining hair can be described as tightly coiled."

So I guess MJ had a receding hairline???

It doesn't seem like any of the other brothers have this or even his father so I don't know if this runs in the family somewhere. But I don't think any of his other rothers had lupus either. And I believe lupus cn cause balding in individuals in certain areas of the head. So maybe that may explain it.

 

[Ashtanga]

The autopsy doesnot say he is bald. "It says his hair is sparse and connected to a wig. it also says there was frontal balding and the remaining hair can be described as tightly coiled."

So I guess MJ had a receding hairline???

It doesn't seem like any of the other brothers have this or even his father so I don't know if this runs in the family somewhere. But I don't think any of his other rothers had lupus either. And I believe lupus cn cause balding in individuals in certain areas of the head. So maybe that may explain it.

I read the report. A few hairs >>>> almost bald, at least for me it is.

I never really knew that lupus can cause baldness, hair loss or whatever it is. :scratch:

I'll search out more about it.

 

[ginvid]

Yeah I found this:

Q. Does lupus cause hair loss?

A. According to Daniel J Wallace, M.D. in The Lupus Book, "there are many reasons why lupus may lead to hair loss. First of all, active disease is associated with the plugging of hair follicles, which results in clumps of hair simply falling out after being combed or washed (called "lupus hair"). Patients with discoid lupus can experience mild, generalized hair loss, bald spots (alopecia areata), or even total baldness -— in the temples and on top of the head. Also, infections, chemotherapy, emotional stress, and hormonal imbalances are associated with hair loss. All told, about 30 percent of patients with SLE and DLE report significant hair loss."


http://www.lupus.org/webmodules/web...communityexperts.aspx?articleid=603&zoneid=96

Also here there is a support forum for people with lupus and they talk about balding early.

I hope this helps!


Can lupus cause hair loss?
Answer
from April Chang-Miller, M.D.
Hair loss (alopecia) occurs in up to 54 percent of people with lupus at some time during the course of the disease. Although distressing, hair loss associated with lupus is almost always temporary. Most often the hair loss is from all over the scalp, but hair may also fall out in patches. Hair usually grows back with treatment of the lupus. Sometimes lupus causes a rash in the scalp — called a discoid rash — that causes scarring of the hair follicles. This hair loss due to scarring (cicatricial, or scarring, alopecia) is usually permanent. In addition, medications used to treat lupus, such as prednisone and immunosuppressive therapies, may cause reversible hair loss.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/lupus/AN01876

Also if you ever watch ANTM, a girl on there had lupus and she spoke about her hair just falling out.

 

[djbaby]

Re: Michael Jackson's Autopsy Report.

thanks - that was all interesting to read and really comprehensive.

Re lidocaine - I've seen it written that this was to deal with the burning sensation that comes from administering propofol.

Re lung issues - in addition to lupus we need to remember that Michael also had an issue with pleurisy (sorry if this is mentioned above but I didn't see it). He talks about it in his Moonwalk autobiography

 

[Sophielo]

Thanks for your explanation. I understand that wig looks like a natural hair.....

But it really makes no sense to me Michael is bald, as it says the autopsy. Michael has always had a lot of hair that has always been bulky and and none of his brothers are bald. Michael was suffering from a major hair loss that left him bald. :doh: It does not really convince me. -_-

There are so many things that leave a big question mark flashing before my eyes. :bugeyed

Randy's bald. He shaved his hair off as he was going bald very quickly so decided to shave it all off.

 

[abigaillovesmj]

One of my former biology profs told me on the first day of class that in all his classes there is no such thing as a stupid question. The same applies here in this forum and especially in serious threads as this one.

You've have asked an important question. Yes, there were two doses: the propofol-Midazolam and propofol-loz. The second dose is what killed him.

Thanks applepie :flowers:

So Murray is again caught in a lie - he said that he only gave Michael Propofol once that night. I don't think we can believe anything he says...

 

[elusive moonwalker]

But it really makes no sense to me Michael is bald, as it says the autopsy.

doesnt say that in the autopsy

 

[elusive moonwalker]

t doesn't seem like any of the other brothers have this or even his father so I don't know if this runs in the family somewhere

jermaines thin on top. when he was in the uk show big brother you could see it. and who knows with the others they all dye their hair so maybe had hair implants etc

 

[Ashtanga]

Yeah I found this:

Q. Does lupus cause hair loss?

A. According to Daniel J Wallace, M.D. in The Lupus Book, "there are many reasons why lupus may lead to hair loss. First of all, active disease is associated with the plugging of hair follicles, which results in clumps of hair simply falling out after being combed or washed (called "lupus hair"). Patients with discoid lupus can experience mild, generalized hair loss, bald spots (alopecia areata), or even total baldness -— in the temples and on top of the head. Also, infections, chemotherapy, emotional stress, and hormonal imbalances are associated with hair loss. All told, about 30 percent of patients with SLE and DLE report significant hair loss."


http://www.lupus.org/webmodules/web...communityexperts.aspx?articleid=603&zoneid=96

Also here there is a support forum for people with lupus and they talk about balding early.

I hope this helps!


Can lupus cause hair loss?
Answer
from April Chang-Miller, M.D.
Hair loss (alopecia) occurs in up to 54 percent of people with lupus at some time during the course of the disease. Although distressing, hair loss associated with lupus is almost always temporary. Most often the hair loss is from all over the scalp, but hair may also fall out in patches. Hair usually grows back with treatment of the lupus. Sometimes lupus causes a rash in the scalp — called a discoid rash — that causes scarring of the hair follicles. This hair loss due to scarring (cicatricial, or scarring, alopecia) is usually permanent. In addition, medications used to treat lupus, such as prednisone and immunosuppressive therapies, may cause reversible hair loss.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/lupus/AN01876

Also if you ever watch ANTM, a girl on there had lupus and she spoke about her hair just falling out.

I talked to a doctor I know, her specialty is another, but even so I asked about it. She told me that in the medical literature does not talk about hair loss and that this may occur in the worst cases of discoid. Because discoid affects only the skin, but it must reach many layers of skin to reach the follicles and alopecia is definitively lost, And one of these links says he can come back there, whether it's alopecia, never returns. And the links speaking discoid lupus and not systemic. Well, the links are confusing. :scratch:

I'm confused now :bugeyed, Klein confirmed on Larry King lupus, but what was that guy? Discoid or Systemic? I do not remember. :doh:

 

[honeysucklejasmine]

^^ Have a read through pages 104 onwards - it was discussed there together with links about discoid and quotes from a couple of Michael's doctors confirming the diagnosis of discoid lupus. IMO it's difficult to know if it progressed at some (minor) level to SLE as Discoid can do, but one of the Drs involved in his care said that MJ 'never had systemic disease that played any role in his passing'.

Unethical of the Drs to come out with that info in my opinion - one of them is Klein so not really surprising, but there you have it.

Discoid lupus COMMONLY causes areas of scarring alopecia (permanent hair loss) this abstract will give you an idea of figures - 52% of the sample of patients with Discoid had 'multiple areas of scarring alopecia'.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15303573

Hope that helps

 

[elusive moonwalker]

I'm confused now :bugeyed, Klein confirmed on Larry King lupus, but what was that guy? Discoid or Systemic? I do not remember.

klien confirmed discoid

 

[Ashtanga]

^^ Have a read through pages 104 onwards - it was discussed there together with links about discoid and quotes from a couple of Michael's doctors confirming the diagnosis of discoid lupus. IMO it's difficult to know if it progressed at some (minor) level to SLE as Discoid can do, but one of the Drs involved in his care said that MJ 'never had systemic disease that played any role in his passing'.

Unethical of the Drs to come out with that info in my opinion - one of them is Klein so not really surprising, but there you have it.

Discoid lupus COMMONLY causes areas of scarring alopecia (permanent hair loss) this abstract will give you an idea of figures - 52% of the sample of patients with Discoid had 'multiple areas of scarring alopecia'.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15303573

Hope that helps

klien confirmed discoid

Thanks!!!

 

[honeysucklejasmine]

Thanks!!!

You're welcome

 

[applepie]

Thanks applepie :flowers:

So Murray is again caught in a lie - he said that he only gave Michael Propofol once that night. I don't think we can believe anything he says...

You're welcome

With Murray, we have to keep a log of all his lies :no:

 

[souldreamer7]

Re: Michael Jackson's Autopsy Report.

Thanks for this.

just a note...
I just wanted to say my brother was 5'9 - 5'10 and he weighed 135 lbs general for him. I many guys that height and weight.

 

[Ohood]

Re: Michael Jackson's Autopsy Report.

thanx for sharing,
but what are the things that you do not agree with?

 

[Dangerous Incorporated]

........a person with medical background called the show

- She has written a 7 page analysis of the autopsy report...some points..

- Autopsy report looks like 3 autopsies chopped together.

- Pg46 blood taken from hospital, labelled with someone else's name

- Tag on left toe -same name as on blood sample, and file number on that toe different to the file number on the other toe.

- The body had an extra rib - birth defect, means the person would have difficulty moving right hand, in her opinion this person would not be a dancer - would feel numb sensation in arm and have problem dancing.

- The lung problems mentioned in autopsy would mean the person wouldn't be able to run up the stairs, would not be able to hit those high notes without coughing.

- No mentions/signs of Lupus in report.

Gives you something to think about.

 

[Rockin.]

OK I revisited the autopsy report last night and indeed on page 32 and 33 it states that there was a C7 Cervical rib on the right hand side.

This means there was an extra rib. Less than one percent of the population has an extra rib at C7. A short extra rib that sometimes occurs on the seventh cervical vertebra. It may cause problems if it presses against a nerve or artery.

So now the question is would it be possible to dance like Michael with this extra rib (the lady with the medical background said no.) Guess we'd have to research into that more.


You can read about Cervical ribs here:

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cervical_vertebrae

Quote:
C7 or vertebra prominens: The most distinctive characteristic of this vertebra is the existence of a long and prominent spinous process, hence the name vertebra prominens. In some subjects, the seventh cervical vertebra is associated with an abnormal pair of ribs, known as cervical ribs. These ribs are usually small, but may occasionally compress blood vessels (such as the subclavian artery) or nerves in the brachial plexus, causing ischemic muscle pain, numbness, tingling, and weakness in the upper limb.
- http://www.fpnotebook.com/Ortho/Brac...clRbSyndrm.htm

Quote:
Cervical Rib Syndrome (C0007856)

Definition (MSH)A condition associated with compression of the BRACHIAL PLEXUS; SUBCLAVIAN ARTERY; and SUBCLAVIAN VEIN at the thoracic outlet and caused by a complete or incomplete anomalous cervical rib or fascial band connecting the tip of a cervical rib with the first thoracic rib. Clinical manifestations may include pain in the neck and shoulder which radiates into the upper extremity, PARESIS or PARALYSIS of brachial plexus innervated muscles; sensory loss; PARESTHESIAS; ISCHEMIA; and EDEMA. (Adams et al., Principles of Neurology, 6th ed, p214)

1. See also
   1. Thoracic Outlet Syndrome
2. Epidemiology
   1. Most common neurovascular compression at neck base
3. Anatomy
   1. Cervical rib (extra rib) arises from C7 vertebra
   2. Rib narrows interval between scalenes
      1. Higher barrier for nerves and vessels to pass over
      2. Compression Worsened by
         1. Shoulder sag (in elderly or Muscle Weakness)
         2. Carrying heavy object in hand
   3. Levels C8 to T1 most commonly affected
4. Symptoms
   1. Affects hand and inner forearm
   2. Pain and Paresthesia along Ulnar Nerve course
   3. Hand weakness, numbness, and clumsiness
   4. Associated symptoms may be variably present
      1. Hand cold sensation
      2. Raynaud's Phenomenon
      3. Gangrene
5. Sign
   1. Palpable cervical rib
   2. Tender brachial Plexus distribution
   3. Muscle Weakness and atrophy (lower trunk)
      1. Interosseus muscles
      2. Hypothenar muscles
   4. Sensation decreased
      1. Ulnar forearm
      2. Arm
      3. Ulnar 1.5 fingers
   5. Circulatory insufficiency
      1. Swelling
      2. Cold sensation
      3. Distal cyanosis
      4. Trophic skin change
   6. Adson's Test
6. Diagnostics
   1. Chest XRay
      1. Extra rib at C7 vertebra (Often bilateral)
   2. Electromyogram

 

[Rockin.]

Autopsy report, page 23..

Can someone tell me what this means. Particularly -

- Marked respiratory bronchiolitis, histiocytic desquamation and multifocal chronic interstitial pneumonitis.

I searched 'multifocal chronic interstitial pneumonitis.' and 'marked respiratory bronchiolitis' on google and got some strange results. Which I can NOT see how they could have applied to Michael at all considering how we saw him singing and dancing in TII.

Respiratory bronchiolitis

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Respiratory bronchiolitis refers to a form of idiopathic interstitial pneumonia associated with smoking.[1]

Also I found 'Respiratory bronchiolitis-associated interstitial lung disease (RBILD) is a distinct clinicopathologic disease described almost exclusively in cigarette smokers' http://chestjournal.chestpubs.org/co...117/1/282.full



Also

Chronic Interstitial Pneumonia.

Synonyms.—Cirrhosis of the Lungs; Fibroid Pneumonia; Fibroid Induration.


Definition.—A chronic inflammation of the lungs, in which the normal air-cells are replaced by fibrous or connective tissue, followed by induration and atrophy of the lung.


Etiology.—It is not definitely known why fibroid changes take place in normal tissue following inflammatory conditions. The disease is nearly always secondary, the plastic exudate accompanying the primary lesion becoming organized into fibrous tissue in place of being removed by the absorbents. It may follow several pulmonary affections; thus, in lobar pneumonia, where resolution is long delayed, the exudate fills the air-cells, becomes organized, and the parenchyma of the lung is changed into fibrous or connective tissue.


Broncho-pneumonia often precedes the disease, while atelectasis and chronic bronchitis are not infrequently followed by cirrhosis of the lung.
Pleurisy.—Chronic pleurisy may be the forerunner of the lesion, the process of tissue formation extending into the lung from the thickened pleural membrane.
As a primary cause may be mentioned long-continued inhalation of different kinds of dust; thus we have cirrhosis or phthisis from the inhalation of dust in the stoneyard, or from workers in iron, brass, or coal, flour-mills, etc.


Pathology.—The disease is nearly always confined to one lung, though, in very rare cases, both lungs may be involved, while localized areas are the rule.
The affected lung becomes atrophied, and, in extreme cases, may be no larger than the closed hand, Anders recording a case where the measurements were only three by four inches. As a result of the shrinkage of lung-tissue, the heart, especially the right side, undergoes hypertrophy. The indurated lung presents a rough or nodular surface, is heavy, dense, tough, and resisting on section.
A cut surface shows the tissue dry and glistening and of varied appearance, according to the character of the irritant. The blood vessels are atrophied, and, in some cases, show but a trace of their character. The alveolar structure in extreme cases is replaced by fibrous tissue. When tuberculosis exists, cavities of varying size and number are found.
The fellow lung generally undergoes compensatory emphysema. The pleura is generally very much thickened, and adhesions more or less extensive between its free surfaces are found, and not infrequently between the pleura and pericardium.
Symptoms.—When the disease begins as an acute pneumonia, there is nothing in the earlier stages to suggest its fibroid character. The usual time for convalescence, from seven to ten days, having passed, and the dyspnea becoming a chief symptom, and the cough persistent or paroxysmal, the true nature of the disease should be suspected.
As it ordinarily begins, cough and dyspnea are among the first prominent symptoms. On slight exertion, as climbing stairs or rapid walking, the breathing becomes labored and hurried and the cough distressing. The patient gradually loses flesh and strength, and the common verdict is consumption. When the bronchi become dilated, the characteristic symptoms of bronchiectasis are present.
There is no fever; in fact, a subnormal temperature is quite common.


Physical Signs.—Inspection shows a retraction of the affected side, an obliteration of the intercostal spaces due to the ribs closing the opening, and an immobility of the affected side made prominent by mensuration. The heart will be inclined to the affected side. The chest wall is prominent on the sound side, due to compensatory emphysema.
Percussion.—Percussion shows a marked, difference in the two sides,—dullness or flatness on the affected side, with a tympanitic note where a cavity exists, or due to a dilated bronchus; on the opposite side there is hyper-resonance.
Auscultation.—Various sounds are revealed by auscultation. Where cavities exist, the cavernous or amphoric sound will be heard, otherwise the respiratory sound will be feeble and distant. Bronchial breathing is the rule.

Diagnosis.—The diagnosis is not readily made early in the disease, but as retraction of the affected side becomes prominent and the physical signs already noted are present, the diagnosis becomes easy.


Prognosis.—The disease is not curable, though life may be prolonged for years. Recurring bronchitis is apt to accompany the disease, and acute pneumonia of the opposite lung may terminate the life. Rarely, death results from failure of the right heart.


Treatment.—The treatment consists in securing a better nutrition and building up the general health; good, nutritious food, an outdoor life in a suitable climate, one where there is a maximum amount of sunshine, moderate altitude, and where the climate is dry.
The medicinal treatment will be symptomatic, selecting remedies for relief of cough and such other conditions as may arise.


http://www.henriettesherbal.com/ecle...a-chr-int.html

 

[ginvid]

Autopsy report, page 23..

Can someone tell me what this means. Particularly -

- Marked respiratory bronchiolitis, histiocytic desquamation and multifocal chronic interstitial pneumonitis.

I searched 'multifocal chronic interstitial pneumonitis.' and 'marked respiratory bronchiolitis' on google and got some strange results. Which I can NOT see how they could have applied to Michael at all considering how we saw him singing and dancing in TII.

Respiratory bronchiolitis

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Respiratory bronchiolitis refers to a form of idiopathic interstitial pneumonia associated with smoking.[1]

Also I found 'Respiratory bronchiolitis-associated interstitial lung disease (RBILD) is a distinct clinicopathologic disease described almost exclusively in cigarette smokers' http://chestjournal.chestpubs.org/co...117/1/282.full
[/URL]

I have to find my info but when I looked up respiratory bronchiolitis in nonsmokers, it was mentioned (if I remember correctly) that it could be the result of an autoimmune disease like lupus. Also they said it was benign and didn't have any long term medical effects associated with it or something like that. let me see if I can find it. RBILD from what I remember is not the kind MJ had. He just had regular Repsiratory bronchiolitis which is not as severe. But give me a bit of time.

 

[Dangerous Incorporated]

^^But you wont find an explanation regarding the birth defect of another rib which would cause numbness in the right arm. Michael wouldnt be a dancer according to this autopsy report.

 

[ginvid]

Rockin posted about that above. I am going to wait until my sister and see what she says. She is a PTA. So maybe she will have some kind of idea. I'll let you know.

 

[Dangerous Incorporated]

Rockin and I heard this from a medical pro who wrote up a long report on the AR with her colleagues and came to the conclusion that the autopsy report was made up of 2-3 reports. She's of the opinion that this is not Michael's body.

 

[ginvid]

What's the AR? Is there someplace I can read the findings?

Thanks!

 

[ivy]

I believe you are referring to someone who called ustream and said that they have a medical background. but do you know that for sure?
ps: let's keep conspiracy in the conspiracy section. here we are discussing information found on the report and do not make claims that this is not Michael's, fake, made up etc.

 

[Dangerous Incorporated]

I believe you are referring to someone who called ustream and said that they have a medical background. but do you know that for sure?
ps: let's keep conspiracy in the conspiracy section. here we are discussing information found on the report and do not make claims that this is not Michael's, fake, made up etc.

This isnt made up. We're referreing to the AR which states that there is an extra rib and the conditions that go along with that. If it doesnt match Michael, are we to ignore it?

What's the AR? Is there someplace I can read the findings?

Thanks!

AR = Autopsy Report which is in the OP

 

[TinaG]

^^But you wont find an explanation regarding the birth defect of another rib which would cause numbness in the right arm. Michael wouldnt be a dancer according to this autopsy report.

For Michael to have an extra rib like that (or anyone really), is that something he would have known about? Or is this something that when people have it, they don't necessarily know it?