Coroners Report released - GRAPHIC CONTENT (Threads merged)

The autopsy report did not give "causes" of any medical conditions. It just stated facts about observations. To get info about "causes," I'm sure that Michael's medical records will be accessed. Klein, Hoefflin, and others, have confirmed lupus. I'm sure that will be brought out at the trial.
 
Again, the Lupus thing seems to be a sore point with many here and I am not understanding that.

I don't think it matters in the scheme of things. Also, there are some doctors who do not even believe it exists. Its one of those medical community debates that goes back and forth. Its sort of like having a cold. You have it today and you are sick but then in 2 weeks you are fine. They won't pull records from another doctor because what if those records are wrong? They go by what they see 'now' and today. There is no blood test or single test that makes it so. Thats why it is highly debatable in the medical community.
 
Thread closed for cleaning and possible 7 day bans.

MJJC is impartial to accuse otherwise you will seriously be offending me,

And yes I to am becoming sick of this will to hate and scathe those who are not in agreement with either the conspiracy/fantasy theories or that of facts that are known.

If I see one member personally attack stalk accuse (being pro murray/working for murray/AEG/Sony) and vice versa based on their standing on how Michael's life took shape in his last days and months, you will be removed from this fan club.

I will to the bitter end protect and support any member of my community irrelevant of your thoughts and theories.

Now this thread will be cleaned today and my moderation team will remove threads using the words disrespect, if I get to ten you will be removed for 7 days for those who have ignored my request not a week ago.

Just to remind you of this post Gaz made one page back.
 
by the way I said "according to your post" I don't believe MJ was not capable of singing , we heard him sing in This is it and he sounded great .
 
It means even if it did not contribute to his death , all measures should have be taken because such an illness COULD HAVE caused complications . Ofcourse Chernoff will pay an expert that would come and tell the jurors that was a contributing factor and MJ lied to the doctor and did not tell him about his medical history

sure then he would have to explain since he was giving mj only 50 mg of propofol why he needed two oxygen tanks daily ? :smilerolleyes:
he brought oxygen tanks because jackson TOLD him he had breathing problems .

Probably the reason why MJ lip-synched a number of his songs in concert..his lungs were not optimal. If he got a lower respiratory tract infection he may have a harder time than others.

I don't think Murray was just there to give IV fluids because he had O2 tanks with him.


Thanks for answering :flowers:
 
Oh Ivy.
BTW My late great aunts name was Ivy............such a beautiful name so pretty.:)
Your post reminded me of TII where Michael says.............''Please understand I am just trying to conserve my throat''............:wub:
My fav bit of TII that is..............I just cant stop loving you......wish I knew how to post u tube vids.............:doh:
Maybe? Maybe I can?

PS editing post as just remembered it was I'll be there that he said I am just trying to conserve my throat!!
will try............howwwld onnnn!!! lol :clapping:

Thank you for this...He sounded SOOO beautiful.....In my opinion...even though he wanted to conserve his throat he still sounded beautiful.....He looked beautiful...Jeez it miss him so much.
 
There are tons of reasons why performers lip-synch and for the younger ones, it mostly because they cannot sing out of the recording studio (lol).

I am just mentioning that if MJ had decreased residual capacity of his two air bags, then it would gel even more with him lip-synching more often than some fans would have liked.

Next.....if MJ needed O2 when he is sleeping, when his basic metabolism is at its lowest and hence needs the least amount of O2, then he would certainly require it when he is active which is not the case.

I am not a proponent of the propofol theory necessarily but if there are other theories floating around I would prefer them to be more solid so I could work with it.lol.

As for the O2 tanks, maybe there were there just in case it was ever needed.
 
Inconsistencies in the autopsy report

- Page 1 states the body’s face is unshaven. Page 8 states that “a mustache and beard are absent.”

- The body was in a hospital gown. Why would they stop resuscitative efforts to change his clothes into a hospital gown ? Everyone very much doubts he wasn’t wearing any bottoms or undies when he was put under. And he would obviously not be wearing a hospital gown either originally.

- The report states his teeth are all natural. Then, they however proceed to describe ceramic and metallic alteration/restoration and endosseal implants which is a metal wire implanted to support an ARTIFICIAL tooth.

- The report states MJ was not found in his usual bedroom, down the hall, but in another one, on top of the stairs. Reports from Murray’s lawyer and other sources are inconsistent when it comes to where MJ was found.

- The report claims MJ’s body was identified using his driver’s license. It would state Michael JOE Jackson. Also, the paramedics claimed that he looked so unlike himself that they took a while recognising him. There is no mention of LaToya IDing the body.

- The coroner staff took hair samples for toxicology in August, after 2 autopsies were already completed. —> Why ? As hair provides a more accurate timeline of all drug use across the course of the hair’s growth (stringent drug tests use hair rather than urine), one would think it would be habitual and almost mandatory to take hair samples in toxicology cases.

- The toxicology screen did not find the Flumazenil administered by Murray. However, they found it in the IV system and a 10cc syringe, along with the Propofol and Lidocaine. There were no drugs found in the upper portion of the IV tubing or in the IV bag. –> was Murray re-using needles ? How much Propofol did he inject into the IV bolus ? Why was the fluid in the syringe white, while the fluid in the IV was yellow, though they both contained the same drugs and the IV fluid was clear ?

- The toxicology screen did not find the epinephrine or atropine said to be administered by paramedics during resuscitative efforts.

- The toxicology screen did find ephedrine, but there is no report of where or how it was administered. It was found only in his urine, which would mean that it had enough time to be filtered by the liver.

- The autopsy report states that Murray found MJ not breathing at around noon. —> The search warrant timeline claims that Murray found him at around 10.52 AM. Weird considering that that specific info was most likely given to the coroner by detectives on the case.

- The report states that MJ called Murray to his house at 1AM and MJ slept several hours at his side –> The search warrant indicates that Murray kept administering all those drugs because MJ could NOT fall asleep.

- Somehow, Murray managed to perform CPR with enough force to fracture ribs but there was no recorded bruise on MJ’s back which should have been present had he put his hand at his back to “harden” the surface, as stated by his legal team. Also, the report states Murray performed CPR on the ground when it was clear it was performed on a bed (the 911 dispatcher orders Alvarez to put MJ on the ground, yet Alvarez never relays the info to the doctor). This is a key element to proving Murray’s gross negligence and incompetence as CPR is a basic for any doctor, especially a cardiologist.

Oh God, he’s taking Propofol… Or is he ?

- The report indicates the presence of benzodiazepines, which are a contributory factor the death, as mixing Propofol with benzos is deadly. It takes exactly 15 seconds for any simpleton to find that info on the Internet – do a Wikipedia search on Propofol, they clearly state that Propofol and benzos should never be mixed together. Hard to believe Murray would be THAT stupid and ignorant on that clear contraindication.
I’m also finding it hard to believe that they would rule that death as an “acute Propofol intoxication”. I searched precedents of drug abuse and found some cases : all of them were results of a self-administered injection which too rapid and then, not monitored leading to cardiac arrest. All those deaths were declared as such – no technical overdose on the product. Also, several doctors have come out saying that the dosage was standard, some even going as far as saying that it was not sufficient to put him efficiently to sleep for a sufficient period of time.

- The report states that Propofol was found in stomach contents. How is that even possible ?
Propofol is an intravenous drug EXCLUSIVELY. The only way for it to be found in the stomach would be that one had taken it orally, had drunk it. Obviously, there’s no doubt that MJ didn’t drink the substance. Now, say he had drunk the substance. It would still have to be metabolised, which can’t happen if he’s dead. There wouldn’t have been enough time anyway, according to the search warrant timeline, for that to happen.

- Speaking of some time confusions… The AR states that Murray was called by MJ at his house at 1AM ; the search warrant more or less corroborates that since it states that Murray gave MJ his first injections at 1.30 AM. However, fan testimonies from the This Is Not It website (as well as some other reports from MJ’s entourage) place MJ going out the Staples Centre at 1.30 AM. That means MJ would be home at around 2 in the morning (it takes around 30 minutes without circulation to go from the Staples Center to his Carolwood home) – say Murray gets there at the same time. At the earliest, MJ’s first injections would have taken place at 2.10-15 AM when everything was set up.
It would have taken for the police a simple interrogation of MJ’s entourage to clear that up.
Speaking of the timeline, the search warrant itself shows something extremely strange. It states that Murray found MJ not breathing at 10.52 AM yet also that Murray placed three calls between 11.18 and 12.05 AM… in the midst of the chaos, seriously ? Though Murray’s lawyer said the timeline was flawed and Murray found MJ unconscious at 11.50 something, he still placed those calls AFTERWARDS. And the police didn’t find that suspicious… even malicious ? With all this crucial info (the benzo mix, the CPR on the bed, the timeline contradictions), it would have taken since Murray’s interrogation + the autopsy report completion to book Murray. Seriously. The judge didn’t even prohibit him from practising medicine when all goes to prove he was negligent, incompetent and even malevolent (placing phone calls while MJ was dying).

I wish you could be on the defence team :clapping:
 
Very informative and thanks so much. I just pray that MJ knew absolutely nothing except that Murray was giving him something to help him sleep, and that MJ died in his sleep with no fear prior to it. That is my wish, hope and prayer.
 
I still havent read it...I did download it, but cant get myself to read it. Part of me wants to know all the facts and part of me says its not right thing to do and that is personal. I dont think Michael would have wanted us to read it..anyway I dont know.
 
Congratulations on Dangerous Incorperated on finding those inconsistencies. Not many people ( including me) bother to read so much of the details and analyse it, but you did very well. Now, if the autopsy is fake why didn't the coroner or LAPD announced that it's fake. I don't understand.
 
I have a question about respiratory depression : would that happen fast (you just stop breathing) or does the breathing more or less slowly decreases until you completely stop ???
Or both are possible, and we don't know what happened in Michael's case ?
My understanding of the autopsy report is that Michael is gone because he was not monitored properly, and not ressucitated quickly enough. It was so evitable.
 
I have a question about respiratory depression : would that happen fast (you just stop breathing) or does the breathing more or less slowly decreases until you completely stop ???
Or both are possible, and we don't know what happened in Michael's case ?
My understanding of the autopsy report is that Michael is gone because he was not monitored properly, and not ressucitated quickly enough. It was so evitable.


The breathing rate would get slower. If monitored with the proper equipment, one would notice the numbers for various parameters going out of the normal range and the alarm would start to sound when it gets to a dangerous level. If nothing is done and this progresses, the breathing will get slower still and then stop (a respiratory arrest). Then the heart will stop - cardiac arrest, which would be secondary to the respiratory arrest.
 
correct me if i'm wrong:

is it true that some of the Respiratory medications are diuretic?

also , i read few years ago that Cilen Dion was using O2 in her bedroom during Las Vegas residency because the dry climate of LV was hurting her throat and she was using it to improve her voice through the long live performances.
 
correct me if i'm wrong:

is it true that some of the Respiratory medications are diuretic?

also , i read few years ago that Cilen Dion was using O2 in her bedroom during Las Vegas residency because the dry climate of LV was hurting her throat and she was using it to improve her voice through the long live performances.

That's probably using o2 through a ventialatio/airconditioning system. That can optimize the air in a room especially in tough climates such as around Las Vegas. Not straight on 02 from a tank.
 
I still havent read it...I did download it, but cant get myself to read it. Part of me wants to know all the facts and part of me says its not right thing to do and that is personal. I dont think Michael would have wanted us to read it..anyway I dont know.

I'm with you Tinker_Bell. I've started to read it and reached Page 15. I couldn't go any further, because I felt it wasn't right either. Part of me wants to understand and the other part does not want to invade his privacy, which I feel I would be doing.

Yes, thank you Dangerous Incorporated for finding inconsistencies. I did read this, but I will read again. I'm curious, has this been brought to anyone's attention?

Peace and love. :angel::wub:
 
I still havent read it...I did download it, but cant get myself to read it. Part of me wants to know all the facts and part of me says its not right thing to do and that is personal. I dont think Michael would have wanted us to read it..anyway I dont know.

I feel you hun:( I totally feel the same as you
 
Inconsistencies in the autopsy report

- Page 1 states the body’s face is unshaven. Page 8 states that “a mustache and beard are absent.”

- The body was in a hospital gown. Why would they stop resuscitative efforts to change his clothes into a hospital gown ? Everyone very much doubts he wasn’t wearing any bottoms or undies when he was put under. And he would obviously not be wearing a hospital gown either originally.

- The report states his teeth are all natural. Then, they however proceed to describe ceramic and metallic alteration/restoration and endosseal implants which is a metal wire implanted to support an ARTIFICIAL tooth.

- The report states MJ was not found in his usual bedroom, down the hall, but in another one, on top of the stairs. Reports from Murray’s lawyer and other sources are inconsistent when it comes to where MJ was found.

- The report claims MJ’s body was identified using his driver’s license. It would state Michael JOE Jackson. Also, the paramedics claimed that he looked so unlike himself that they took a while recognising him. There is no mention of LaToya IDing the body.

- The coroner staff took hair samples for toxicology in August, after 2 autopsies were already completed. —> Why ? As hair provides a more accurate timeline of all drug use across the course of the hair’s growth (stringent drug tests use hair rather than urine), one would think it would be habitual and almost mandatory to take hair samples in toxicology cases.

- The toxicology screen did not find the Flumazenil administered by Murray. However, they found it in the IV system and a 10cc syringe, along with the Propofol and Lidocaine. There were no drugs found in the upper portion of the IV tubing or in the IV bag. –> was Murray re-using needles ? How much Propofol did he inject into the IV bolus ? Why was the fluid in the syringe white, while the fluid in the IV was yellow, though they both contained the same drugs and the IV fluid was clear ?

- The toxicology screen did not find the epinephrine or atropine said to be administered by paramedics during resuscitative efforts.

- The toxicology screen did find ephedrine, but there is no report of where or how it was administered. It was found only in his urine, which would mean that it had enough time to be filtered by the liver.

- The autopsy report states that Murray found MJ not breathing at around noon. —> The search warrant timeline claims that Murray found him at around 10.52 AM. Weird considering that that specific info was most likely given to the coroner by detectives on the case.

- The report states that MJ called Murray to his house at 1AM and MJ slept several hours at his side –> The search warrant indicates that Murray kept administering all those drugs because MJ could NOT fall asleep.

- Somehow, Murray managed to perform CPR with enough force to fracture ribs but there was no recorded bruise on MJ’s back which should have been present had he put his hand at his back to “harden” the surface, as stated by his legal team. Also, the report states Murray performed CPR on the ground when it was clear it was performed on a bed (the 911 dispatcher orders Alvarez to put MJ on the ground, yet Alvarez never relays the info to the doctor). This is a key element to proving Murray’s gross negligence and incompetence as CPR is a basic for any doctor, especially a cardiologist.

Oh God, he’s taking Propofol… Or is he ?

- The report indicates the presence of benzodiazepines, which are a contributory factor the death, as mixing Propofol with benzos is deadly. It takes exactly 15 seconds for any simpleton to find that info on the Internet – do a Wikipedia search on Propofol, they clearly state that Propofol and benzos should never be mixed together. Hard to believe Murray would be THAT stupid and ignorant on that clear contraindication.
I’m also finding it hard to believe that they would rule that death as an “acute Propofol intoxication”. I searched precedents of drug abuse and found some cases : all of them were results of a self-administered injection which too rapid and then, not monitored leading to cardiac arrest. All those deaths were declared as such – no technical overdose on the product. Also, several doctors have come out saying that the dosage was standard, some even going as far as saying that it was not sufficient to put him efficiently to sleep for a sufficient period of time.

- The report states that Propofol was found in stomach contents. How is that even possible ?
Propofol is an intravenous drug EXCLUSIVELY. The only way for it to be found in the stomach would be that one had taken it orally, had drunk it. Obviously, there’s no doubt that MJ didn’t drink the substance. Now, say he had drunk the substance. It would still have to be metabolised, which can’t happen if he’s dead. There wouldn’t have been enough time anyway, according to the search warrant timeline, for that to happen.

- Speaking of some time confusions… The AR states that Murray was called by MJ at his house at 1AM ; the search warrant more or less corroborates that since it states that Murray gave MJ his first injections at 1.30 AM. However, fan testimonies from the This Is Not It website (as well as some other reports from MJ’s entourage) place MJ going out the Staples Centre at 1.30 AM. That means MJ would be home at around 2 in the morning (it takes around 30 minutes without circulation to go from the Staples Center to his Carolwood home) – say Murray gets there at the same time. At the earliest, MJ’s first injections would have taken place at 2.10-15 AM when everything was set up.
It would have taken for the police a simple interrogation of MJ’s entourage to clear that up.
Speaking of the timeline, the search warrant itself shows something extremely strange. It states that Murray found MJ not breathing at 10.52 AM yet also that Murray placed three calls between 11.18 and 12.05 AM… in the midst of the chaos, seriously ? Though Murray’s lawyer said the timeline was flawed and Murray found MJ unconscious at 11.50 something, he still placed those calls AFTERWARDS. And the police didn’t find that suspicious… even malicious ? With all this crucial info (the benzo mix, the CPR on the bed, the timeline contradictions), it would have taken since Murray’s interrogation + the autopsy report completion to book Murray. Seriously. The judge didn’t even prohibit him from practising medicine when all goes to prove he was negligent, incompetent and even malevolent (placing phone calls while MJ was dying).

What's your theory on ephedrine in the urine?

How long does ephedrine stay in the urine? A month?

Regardless, why in the world would MJ take ephedrine if he's on a "bulking up for the concerts" type program with Ferrigno?

Doesn't everybody know it's a weight lost substance? And it causes insomnia.

I've been taking supplements for years and I always AVOID anything with ephedra or guarana because it makes you feel like you drank lots of coffee (very jittery) and keeps you up at night.

So was that the way the doc was bringing MJ up to have lots of energy on stage? If yes, why use a weight lost supplement?
 
Last edited:
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* phlegm in bronchial tubes

Ephedrine Plus® tablets are offered in two formulas dependent on state regulations: 25 mg ephedrine HCl and 200 mg guaifenesin; 12.5 mg ephedrine HCl and 200 mg guaifenesin.
 
What's your theory on ephedrine in the urine?

How long does ephedrine stay in the urine? A month?

Regardless, why in the world would MJ take ephedrine if he's on a "bulking up for the concerts" type program with Ferrigno?

Doesn't everybody know it's a wait lost substance? And it causes insomnia.

I've been taking supplements for years and I always AVOID anything with ephedra or guarana because it makes you feel like you drank lots of coffee (very jittery) and keeps you up at night.

So was that the way the doc was bringing MJ up to have lots of energy on stage? If yes, why use a wait lost supplement?

This is what investigators have to look at first imo. Will they? Who knows.... . Ephedra is a Chinise herb as far as I know and it goes away from the body very fast. He could get it with food, drinks etc. Could somebodey tell him that to be in a good shape, to be energetic he has to take some natural foods? We know Mike was crazy about natural medicine. Ephedrine plus benzos is very dangerous combination. The question is how come that ephedrine was in MJ body? How did he get it? Did he get it with food? Also, the question is was it synthetic ephedrine or natural?
Does this autopsy say anything about if ephedrine was syntetic or natural? It is very important because this way we can assume how he got it. If it was natural, it is more likly he was getting it with foods and drinks and maybe he did not know what he was getting.
 
Hi BEACHLOVER,
Your response to the post above shows that drugs can be used for various ailments and is a caution to those who immediately think that a drug is being used by MJ for the ONLY REASON they KNOW.

Also, the E drug in question has been discussed before in the thread several times. Everyone please read as many pages as you can to prevent repetition. Repetition sometimes drags down the interest of the thread.

Thanks Beachlover. Peace
 
http://www.dmdpharm.com/ephedrine-plus-tablets.html

Discover Ephedrine Plus® - the fast-acting, effective, temporary asthma treatment - without a prescription. Ephedrine Plus® tablets are the hottest-selling asthma treatment product on the market today, helping millions of people breathe easier.

With DMD Pharmaceuticals' proven dual-acting formula – a combination of a bronchodilator and expectorant – our Ephedrine Plus® tablets provide fast treatment for these asthma symptoms:

* shortness of breath
* tightness of chest
* wheezing due to bronchial asthma
* phlegm in bronchial tubes

Ephedrine Plus® tablets are offered in two formulas dependent on state regulations: 25 mg ephedrine HCl and 200 mg guaifenesin; 12.5 mg ephedrine HCl and 200 mg guaifenesin.

Were these the kind they found?

That's the one thing I don't like about natural supplements, they're not clear enough on the side effects. So if those are the ones Michael was taking, he was taking them for the obvious reason (his lungs problem) but at the same time it's the last thing a skinny person with sleeping problems should take.

:doh:

I wouldn't touch any meds with a ten foot pole because of all the nasty side effects and I do a lot of research on all supplements I take and I'm really surprised that Michael's trainer and doctor wouldn't advise him on any and all possible side effects. That's why I don't trust doctors and haven't seen one in 8 years.
 
Were these the kind they found?

That's the one thing I don't like about natural supplements, they're not clear enough on the side effects. So if those are the ones Michael was taking, he was taking them for the obvious reason (his lungs problem) but at the same time it's the last thing a skinny person with sleeping problems should take.

:doh:

I wouldn't touch any meds with a ten foot pole because of all the nasty side effects and I do a lot of research on all supplements I take and I'm really surprised that Michael's trainer and doctor wouldn't advise him on any and all possible side effects. That's why I don't trust doctors and haven't seen one in 8 years.

No argument that it is not a good drug to take. I am a nurse and I have to have a whopping headache or be really sick to even take Tylenol. I rarely see a physician myself and believe in 'less is more' but to each his own.

However we speculate on this medication, it could have come from any number of sources and for any number of reasons. We don't know if he told Murray or anyone he was taking it. It is even found in some 'health' drinks that are for body builders. Did Michael know this was bad? I don't know and no one here does either. I don't think they are going to know the source or whether it is natural or not.
 
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