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Crack Kills

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Dangerous Incorporated

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So the story goes that this was a song that Michael planned to record with rappers Run-DMC around 1986-87 for the BAD album, but Michael didn’t like Run-DMC’s negative attitude towards him so nothing came of it. Does anyone know what it was that Run-DMC said about MJ? Pretty stupid on their part.

The unfinished lyrics, consisting of two verses and a drawing of a face in pencil were put up for auction in Nov 05 and again on eBay a year later. Does anyone have a picture of these at all please?
 
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I posted for you on my site, but I'll post here for MJJC too.:

Run DMC can't have been that bad to michael- DMC did the first Thrillercast.

I am a bit skeptical about the story in FTR. According to Quincy Jones (his autobiography), the story is this:

Quote:
By then it was clear- at least to some of us- that rap had made its mark in our culture. It was out newest baby and it was here to stay.

There were plenty of doubters about the music's staying power. When we made "Bad" in 1987, I wanted to put an anticrack song on one side with Run-DMC and Michael. The group showed up at Westlake Studios several times, ready to jam, but Smelly was sceptical of rap as an option for a couple of the album's cuts and he wasn't the only one. Snoopy never budged from his rock-steady conviction that rap would rule for quite some time.
And here's the pics:

0044_2_lg-1.jpg

crack1-1.jpg
 
Not sure if it was this specifically, but around that same time, Run-DMC would often instruct their audience during concerts to chant "We love Cool J!!" when asked specifically if they like/love Michael Jackson. I'm not sure that they were ever deliberately acting mean-spirited (the members including LL Cool J have long been fans; Darryl McDaniels even did one of the Thriller 25 podcasts), but some of the members seemingly let their fame get to their heads and grew huge egos. They believed, or wanted to believe, that they were bigger than Michael and said some things that could've been construed negatively by Michael...

Long before that, on the heels of Thriller in 1985, Run-DMC also released a song and music video titled "King of Rock" which in the title itself could be construed as a play on Michael's already crowned "King of Pop" label. In the song, they echo the lyrics, "They called us ill, we're gettin’ iller. There's no one chiller. It's not Michael Jackson and this is not 'Thriller'" In the music video for the song, they take a sequenced glove, drop it on the floor, and stomp on it. So yeah... They did a number of things over the years that could be seen as potentially annoying and negative towards Michael.

Of course, I doubt that anyone knows for sure exactly which factors contributed to the failed collaboration(s). I'm not so sure if it was specifically due to the construed negativity, in fact I think that Michael gave props to Run-DMC at some awards ceremony in the late 80s.

Here's the lyrics/pictures of Crack Kills draft:

crack_kills_mjjr_01.jpg


crack_kills_mjjr_02.jpg

Edit: Thanks for posting that quote from Quincy, Marni... I tend to agree with you too. Although Run-DMC may have said and done things that could appear negatively targeted at Michael, I've never seen evidence that this is what caused the collaborations to fail.
 
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So it appears that it was numerous factors that led to this project being shelved. I'd love for a 25th Anniversary release of BAD to include this. I even remember a pic on the cover of a mag with MJ with a hodd and bling on looking like a rapper.
 
TSCM said:
Not sure if it was this specifically, but around that same time, Run-DMC would often instruct their audience during concerts to chant "We love Cool J!!" when asked specifically if they like/love Michael Jackson. I'm not sure that they were ever deliberately acting mean-spirited (the members including LL Cool J have long been fans; Darryl McDaniels even did one of the Thriller 25 podcasts), but some of the members seemingly let their fame get to their heads and grew huge egos. They believed, or wanted to believe, that they were bigger than Michael and said some things that could've been construed negatively by Michael...

Long before that, on the heels of Thriller in 1985, Run-DMC also released a song and music video titled "King of Rock" which in the title itself could be construed as a play on Michael's already crowned "King of Pop" label. In the song, they echo the lyrics, "They called us ill, we're gettin’ iller. There's no one chiller. It's not Michael Jackson and this is not 'Thriller'" In the music video for the song, they take a sequenced glove, drop it on the floor, and stomp on it. So yeah... They did a number of things over the years that could be seen as potentially annoying and negative towards Michael.

Of course, I doubt that anyone knows for sure exactly which factors contributed to the failed collaboration(s). I'm not so sure if it was specifically due to the construed negativity, in fact I think that Michael gave props to Run-DMC at some awards ceremony in the late 80s.

Here's the lyrics/pictures of Crack Kills draft:

crack_kills_mjjr_01.jpg


crack_kills_mjjr_02.jpg

Edit: Thanks for posting that quote from Quincy, Marni... I tend to agree with you too. Although Run-DMC may have said and done things that could appear negatively targeted at Michael, I've never seen evidence that this is what caused the collaborations to fail.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your info too. That's very interesting. :)

LMAO at the lyrics and the video diss. I have to laugh- rappers are such bitches. :lmao:
 
Marni said:
Quote:
... Snoopy never budged from his rock-steady conviction that rap would rule for quite some time.
Click to expand...


who is Snoopy?




TSCM said:
Long before that, on the heels of Thriller in 1985, Run-DMC also released a song and music video titled "King of Rock" which in the title itself could be construed as a play on Michael's already crowned "King of Pop" label.
Click to expand...

didnt the "King Of Pop" label come a bit later than 1985?

i think the main reason that this collabo didnt happen is that michael didnt like the rap.
if he would have loved it what would have been in the way?
and i guess if Run DMC ever were negative about MJ it was AFTER he turned them down.

and lets be honest.... can anyone imagine raps or an anti-CRACK song on the bad album?
way too street for this perfect pop album imo.
 
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Triumph said:
who is Snoopy?






didnt the "King Of Pop" label come a bit later than 1985?
Click to expand...

The King of Pop title came in 1989 when Elisabeth Taylor called Michael "The true King of Pop, Rock & Soul" at the Soul Train Awards.

I don't think Run DMC's King of Rock song is about Michael, as no one was calling Michael the King of anything back then even you could say Michael was a King of pop music by then.

I'm not to sure what the issue was with Michael and Run DMC. Apart from the Thrillercast I've never heard them talk Michael at all. The only things I ever read about Michael and Run DMC is that a) they recorded a rap for Speed Demon, but Michael decided not to use it as it didn't fit the song. And b) Run DMC found Michael too reserved when they recorded Crack Kills.

Neither Run DMC or Michael have ever talked about there time recording in the studio with each other. My guess is they most properly got on quite well in the studio, but were too pleased when Michael choose not to release or complete their duet/collaboration. Anyway all we know about Michael and Run DMC are rumors not facts.
 
Triumph said:
who is Snoopy?
Click to expand...
I honestly forget. Q has nicknames for all the people he works with, and I think that's one of them. I just forget who it is. :lol:

didnt the "King Of Pop" label come a bit later than 1985?
Click to expand...
Yes, but Mj was called various things from "The pop king", "the pop music king", "the pop music prince" to "the prince of pop" for many years before. I have so many books that give various titles like this to Michael that were published before 1985.

benscarr said:
The King of Pop title came in 1989 when Elisabeth Taylor called Michael "The true King of Pop, Rock & Soul" at the Soul Train Awards.

I don't think Run DMC's King of Rock song is about Michael, as no one was calling Michael the King of anything back then even you could say Michael was a King of pop music by then.

I'm not to sure what the issue was with Michael and Run DMC. Apart from the Thrillercast I've never heard them talk Michael at all. The only things I ever read about Michael and Run DMC is that a) they recorded a rap for Speed Demon, but Michael decided not to use it as it didn't fit the song. And b) Run DMC found Michael too reserved when they recorded Crack Kills.

Neither Run DMC or Michael have ever talked about there time recording in the studio with each other. My guess is they most properly got on quite well in the studio, but were too pleased when Michael choose not to release or complete their duet/collaboration. Anyway all we know about Michael and Run DMC are rumors not facts.
Click to expand...

See above for the King of pop thing. :yes:

For Speed Demon? Now that's one I have never heard, or read. :blink:

Crack kills was written by Michael so he and Qunicy chose Run DMC for the project, not the other way around. I am sure they would have known in advance it was an anti-drug song, not a gangsta rap song. :lol:

I think the only quote we can fully trust is Quincy's - he was there and saw it recorded. I am pretty sure we can conclude that MJ just didn't like the finished track and /or didn't want rap on the Bad album. :cheeky:
 
PLUS Michael gave props to Run DMC at the Soul Train Music awards in the early 90s, The same show he was on crutches in.
 
Marni said:
Crack kills was written by Michael so he and Qunicy chose Run DMC for the project, not the other way around. I am sure they would have known in advance it was an anti-drug song, not a gangsta rap song. :lol:
Click to expand...

Run DMC never were never a gangsta rap group.

Many books did refer to Michael as a Pop Prince etc, but Michael wasn't referred to as the King of Pop or anything like that by other famous people or fans until 1989.
 
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Triumph said:
didnt the "King Of Pop" label come a bit later than 1985?
Click to expand...

benscarr said:
The King of Pop title came in 1989 when Elisabeth Taylor called Michael "The true King of Pop, Rock & Soul" at the Soul Train Awards.
Click to expand...

Contrary to extremely popular belief, the media itself first declared Michael Jackson the "King of Pop" in February-March 1984, immediately following his unprecedented wins at the Grammys. Of course, the title itself didn't become uber-popular until the late 1980s and early 1990s, but I have articles including one from Boston Globe, from 1984, with the headline/caption "Jackson Crowned King of Pop...Jackson now officially enthroned as the King of Pop." A few months later, the media was calling Michael the "King of Rock and Soul." Prior to this, he was referred to as the "King of Records" and the "King of Popular Music."

Dangerous Incorporated said:
Seems like FTR was very one sided here.
Click to expand...
The book serves as a nice, quick-glance into a lot of Michael's music but it is not without errors. I also have a hunch some parts were guesstimated for the sake of completion rather than just writing "it's unknown why this collaboration wasn't successful." An index separating released and unreleased music would've been welcomed as well.
 
TSCM said:
Not sure if it was this specifically, but around that same time, Run-DMC would often instruct their audience during concerts to chant "We love Cool J!!" when asked specifically if they like/love Michael Jackson. I'm not sure that they were ever deliberately acting mean-spirited (the members including LL Cool J have long been fans; Darryl McDaniels even did one of the Thriller 25 podcasts), but some of the members seemingly let their fame get to their heads and grew huge egos. They believed, or wanted to believe, that they were bigger than Michael and said some things that could've been construed negatively by Michael...

Long before that, on the heels of Thriller in 1985, Run-DMC also released a song and music video titled "King of Rock" which in the title itself could be construed as a play on Michael's already crowned "King of Pop" label. In the song, they echo the lyrics, "They called us ill, we're gettin’ iller. There's no one chiller. It's not Michael Jackson and this is not 'Thriller'" In the music video for the song, they take a sequenced glove, drop it on the floor, and stomp on it. So yeah... They did a number of things over the years that could be seen as potentially annoying and negative towards Michael.

Of course, I doubt that anyone knows for sure exactly which factors contributed to the failed collaboration(s). I'm not so sure if it was specifically due to the construed negativity, in fact I think that Michael gave props to Run-DMC at some awards ceremony in the late 80s.

Here's the lyrics/pictures of Crack Kills draft:

crack_kills_mjjr_01.jpg


crack_kills_mjjr_02.jpg

Edit: Thanks for posting that quote from Quincy, Marni... I tend to agree with you too. Although Run-DMC may have said and done things that could appear negatively targeted at Michael, I've never seen evidence that this is what caused the collaborations to fail.
Click to expand...

Actually, the "Cool J" they were referring to was LL Cool J. The King of Rock song wasn't about Michael, but they were stating their presence in the music industry. At the time (1984), Rap music wasn't as big and if you said "I'm the King of Rap" it wouldn't have mattered much, but here comes these 2 guys from New York proclaiming their were he new kings of rock, they knew it was going to get attention. When I was helping out on the "For The Record", one of my main things was to find what happened with the MJ/Run DMC story. The whole story is in the RUN DMC bio "Raising Hell".
 
I've read in a few places that Run DMC were interviewed following their recording session with Michael and that when asked about Michael, they called him "weird". If that's true, then I can understand Michael being turned off by them and having them on his album.
 
mj_brainiac said:
When I was helping out on the "For The Record", one of my main things was to find what happened with the MJ/Run DMC story. The whole story is in the RUN DMC bio "Raising Hell".
Click to expand...

Can you tell us anymore about this? Did you read their bio?
 
run's brother is more than likely the reason why the colab ddidn't go down. russell simmons always has had some good and alot of bad things to say about MJ. alot of backhand compliments. either way it comes across like a novelty and along the lines of nancy reagan's just say no message.
 
benscarr said:
Run DMC never were never a gangsta rap group.

Many books did refer to Michael as a Pop Prince etc, but Michael wasn't referred to as the King of Pop or anything like that by other famous people or fans until 1989.
Click to expand...

I know they weren't but my point is the "too reserved" thing just doesn't make sense to me. :)

TSCM said:
Contrary to extremely popular belief, the media itself first declared Michael Jackson the "King of Pop" in February-March 1984, immediately following his unprecedented wins at the Grammys. Of course, the title itself didn't become uber-popular until the late 1980s and early 1990s, but I have articles including one from Boston Globe, from 1984, with the headline/caption "Jackson Crowned King of Pop...Jackson now officially enthroned as the King of Pop." A few months later, the media was calling Michael the "King of Rock and Soul." Prior to this, he was referred to as the "King of Records" and the "King of Popular Music."


The book serves as a nice, quick-glance into a lot of Michael's music but it is not without errors. I also have a hunch some parts were guesstimated for the sake of completion rather than just writing "it's unknown why this collaboration wasn't successful." An index separating released and unreleased music would've been welcomed as well.
Click to expand...

Exactly. I knew you'd have a quote for us! :D

That's why I got the e-Book. You can search it. :lol:

EDIT: The run DMC bio is here. (Raising Hell)

Although, I think there'd be a more accurate story in this book- the authorised bio of Run DMC. Looking at the index, there seems to be quite a few pages with Michael and or the Jacksons in it.
 
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Nice find Marni. Thanx for sharing with us.

Yeah For The Record doesnt actually seem to be 100% hence me asking questions trying to find out further info. Something the authors should have done it seems :lol:
 
DMC also wrote an autobiography. I read both books. I don't think DMC's book really said anything about MJ. I don't remember the exact details (as it was a long while ago I read it), but the group bio said something about them going to Havenhurst and that Bubbles attacked Jam Master Jay, and Jay was upset. I don't recall what happened after that, so I don't know if that was the reason for the collab not working out. There's an extra unreleased demo on the remastered version of Run DMC's "Tougher Than Leather" CD that is called Crack. According to the liner notes the box the reel tape was in was labeled "Crack (For Michael Jackson)". But Run said the song wasn't for Mike but for Jesse D from The Force MD's.
 
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DuranDuran said:
DMC also wrote an autobiography. I read both books. I don't think DMC's book really said anything about MJ. I don't remember the exact details (as it was a long while ago I read it), but the group bio said something about them going to Havenhurst and that Bubbles attacked Jam Master Jay, and Jay was upset. I don't recall what happened after that, so I don't know if that was the reason for the collab not working out. There's an extra unreleased demo on the remastered version of Run DMC's "Tougher Than Leather" CD that is called Crack. According to the liner notes the box the reel tape was in was labeled "Crack (For Michael Jackson)". But Run said the song wasn't for Mike but for Jesse D from The Force MD's.
Click to expand...

Boy this is a lot more confusing that I expected. Now its Bubbles fault? :lol: I new that there was a track called Crack as an extra on that CD but it was never clear if in fact that is the demo version of the song or not.
 
Dangerous Incorporated said:
Boy this is a lot more confusing that I expected. Now its Bubbles fault? :lol: I new that there was a track called Crack as an extra on that CD but it was never clear if in fact that is the demo version of the song or not.
Click to expand...
Well the track doesn't sound like an MJ track, but it might have been an idea for the rap they were gonna use that was done beforehand. I remember the Force MD's and Jesse D was one of the leads, who sang vaguely in a MJ style and he looked a little like Sam Cooke. But Jesse had left the group around 85 or 86. At 1st the Force MDs sang in a doo wop style and also rapped, but they phased out the rapping later.
 
Lol aged like milk
Bad 25 came and went, what were peoples predictions for it before it came out?
 
According to All The Songs, this is supposedly the demo of “Crack Kills” Run DMC recorded for Mike. I’ve read many conflicting stories about “Crack Kills” so take this with a grain of salt.
Apparently in the album notes this song is titled “Crack (demo for Michael Jackson)” so I think it’s very likely this is “Crack Kills”.
 
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