Dangerous 25: what would you like to see happen? [UNCONFIRMED]

mj_frenzy;4112115 said:
This fixation about not releasing a 1993 show is becoming really inexplicable.
I wasn't really aware there was a fixation about not releasing a 1993 show. Is there? Personally I feel he looks a little bloated and tired on the South American leg and the Moscow concert was a disaster due to the sub zero temperatures, however Bangkok and Singapore? Not sure. Watching snippets, clips etc, from memory Japan looks like it could be good, Tenerife looks like it could be interesting. As I say, for me it's just the South American third tier of the tour where everything seems to (pardon the pun) go south. He looks tired and bloated, he doesn't always look geniunly happy and looks drained of energy at times, like throwing in the moonwalk at times during Jam seems like he's playing for crowd reaction because he's simply too tired to pop or be spontaneous.
mj_frenzy;4112115 said:
I know that you are beyond debating but I have to provide some answers:

1. Any technical difficulties are not usually ironed out by the first 5 or 6 shows.


Technical difficulties (as imponderable factors) cannot be forecasted & usually keep reappearing in different forms & times, even after many dates.

For example, take into account that the Bucharest show, the final show from the first leg, was plagued by various errors & mistakes. That’s why, the HBO version is essentially a mix of different shots from different shows. Notice some songs from the BBC version (the original version that included exclusively the Bucharest show) & you can see the major differences by yourself.
So what your actually saying there is, as well as Michael having to deal with sexual molestation accusations and being high and bloated, and missing vocal and dancing cues, breaking down in tears, several delays (which to be fair can be edited out and isn't a problem) there's also the possibility of technical difficulties?? You originally brought up technical diffuclties as a way of suggesting the 92 shows could all potentially, or mostly have problems. I sort of agreed with you saying the first 6, but now your saying, "no, reappearing in different forms & times". As I've said before, I have no problem with technical deficulties as long as MJ looks, comes across, and is happy, energetic, fully engaged, and wants to actually be there, and hasn't moments/hours beforehand had his home raided and been accused of molesting children. I want to watch a concert where MJ is at his absolute best and getting the same excitement back from the crowd as he's giving him. During Mexico the audience (and their a brilliant supportive audience) are willing him across the finishing line.
mj_frenzy;4112115 said:
2. A possible 1993 live release (for example, the Mexico show) does not show at all an absolute lack of understanding towards the man’s dignity and plight.

People will see the enormous, unwavering support that MJ received from the audience during those months. Take into account also that half a million (in total) people attended those Mexican shows honouring, in this way, his dignity & sympathizing with his plight in the best possible way.
Yes and No: Fans will see an unwavering support, anyone with any compassion and empathy in their hearts will see a man who shouldn't be on that stage to begin with, All will see one of the lowest points of his life and feel the tangible meaning of the phrase "nothing stops the big machine" i.e. worked to death for making other people money.
mj_frenzy;4112115 said:
3. By saying that MJ was dependent on painkillers in 1992 I did not mean to try to justify that it was ok that he was high whilst performing in 1993.

This is just a correlation you made up on your own.

I never said (or implied) that thing, let alone to use it as trite way to justify anything.
It's not something I was directing at you specifically and apollogies if it came across as such. Being more specific what I mean is 'it's an attitude thats applied by a certain type of fan who craves anything MJ so much that their selfishness and desires to fullfil their own specific needs overrides any type of emphatic feelings or compassion. I would also include Sony/estate in that equation. There is no longer a moral compass or understanding of the person as human. It's inhumane. Hey the Romans had The Colosseum, the Spanish still have bullfights and the running of the bulls. It's part of the human condition.
mj_frenzy;4112115 said:
T. I do not think at all that it has to do with a clearly different perspective of the difference between right and wrong.

For example:

There are fans that really enjoy the 1992 shows.
There are fans that really enjoy the 1993 shows.
There are fans that really enjoy the 2001 MSG shows.
etc.

I mean different people like different things & thus they have a desire for different official releases.

For me, this is perfectly normal & of course it has nothing to do with the difference between right and wrong. It just comes down to every single fan’s personal taste.

For example, although MJ encountered great human difficulties during those MSG 2001 anniversary shows, I am pretty sure there are a lot of fans who really enjoy these 2 concerts. They are not to be blamed for that, of course.

Lastly, there are millions of fans who express their honest sympathy & devotion towards MJ in multiple ways. The fact that they probably want an official, 1993 live show obviously does not take their fan loyalty away in the slightest.
Who am I to suggest otherwise? Personally, for me, I draw the line at the Mexico 93 show. I'm actually going to watch the tower version again in the coming days to make certain I'm not living in some sort parallel universe to the fans that think this concert is incredible and would love to see it released and in theatres. The man has had his home raided, he's been accused of molestation, due to this, as well as the possibility that he's absolutely burnt out from jet lag, insomnia, exhaustion, he begins to rely on strong pain medication (and were all aware we're not talking about a few Disprin pills) and that he's tired and emotional on stage, taking breaks to (in all probability) top-up. At times he's going through the motions and is stagnant, other times he's lost, other times he's performing through tears, other times he's euphoric and smiling, but all of it, in my mind is sad.
I love the 92 shows, I'm pretty sure there's a few 93 shows pre-South America that I would love (there are moments and performances from South America that I love such as Dangerous and WYBT from Buenos Areis) , I'm uncomfortable about the 30th Anniversary shows, and I adore anything Destiny, Triumph, Victory and Bad.

Mexico 93 also lacks a decent setlist such as Beat it, WDAN, Bad and TWYMMF. And if memory serves the stage dosent elevate. So for me it's one of the worst shows to release for every single reason I can imagine. This is not the show (wether it's HD or not) that I would be racing to put up on the big screen to say to my family, friends, music fans that "this is what MJ is all about!" It is not in my opinion (for whatever it's worth) representative of great, classic, magical MJ.

But hey, thats just me.

Anyways, this release isn't something thats actually going to happen.
 
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SmoothGangsta;4112117 said:
I can't believe I'm actually seeing people defending the possible release of this show.

b...but high definition!!1111
 
I'm for releasing any concert that is watchable. Don't care what tour it was, don't care what place it was & don't care what date it was.
 
OnirMJ;4112273 said:
I'm for releasing any concert that is watchable. Don't care what tour it was, don't care what place it was & don't care what date it was.
What do you mean watchable? There all watchable aren't they? You mean if they were going to release another show, you have no preference?
 
So if MJ goes to the bathroom filmed in HD people want it released?
 
respect77;4112279 said:
So if MJ goes to the bathroom filmed in HD people want it released?
See, this is why we need a collectors label.
 
respect77;4112279 said:
So if MJ goes to the bathroom filmed in HD people want it released?

Well preferably in Movie Theatres, and in 3D. Lol.
 
respect77;4112279 said:
So if MJ goes to the bathroom filmed in HD people want it released?

Psh - I've only been petitioning for that since '07!
 
[video=youtube;y5BMqU-ktGc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5BMqU-ktGc[/video]
 
aazzaabb;4112276 said:
What do you mean watchable? There all watchable aren't they? You mean if they were going to release another show, you have no preference?

Wembley is not watchable for example. I watched it maybe once or twice in full. I watched Bucharest and Yokohama hundreds of times, especially Bucharest. DVD quality is watchable for me. Even brand new VHS. Damaged, 25 years old tape is not.

I have preferences, of course. But if there is only limited amount of concerts in watchable audio and video quality, then I'm not picky. Mexico or not.
 
OnirMJ;4112339 said:
Wembley is not watchable for example. I watched it maybe once or twice in full. I watched Bucharest and Yokohama hundreds of times, especially Bucharest. DVD quality is watchable for me. Even brand new VHS. Damaged, 25 years old tape is not.

I have preferences, of course. But if there is only limited amount of concerts in watchable audio and video quality, then I'm not picky. Mexico or not.
For me the performance is quite important, maybe more so than the quality. Perhaps that's partly because I'm 36 and grew up in a different age. I do enjoy HD and remastered films such as Hitchcock films, love Moonwalker bluray etc but I just don't see how it would improve a poor performance. I've watched Bad Wembley more than anyother pro footage concert at this stage but most of my favourite MJ concerts are poor quality amateur shot boots anyway, such as Bad tours Barcelona and Wembley. I will say I have Bad Tour Yokohama in better quality than Wembley and Yokohama is a great show, but if I had to choose I'd still go with Wembley release. In this day and age I do understand the need and desire for HD but if it's not available it's not that much of an issue for me. Apart from the reasons I've rambled on here, the idea of a Mexico 93 in HD just does nothing for me. Can't get excited over it and I'd probably still end up favouring the tower boot. I also think if they did release Mexico 93 it will have to be highly edited in parts using a few other shows anyway so not sure how the whole HD thing would come about.
 
aazzaabb;4112355 said:
For me the performance is quite important, maybe more so than the quality. Perhaps that's partly because I'm 36 and grew up in a different age. I do enjoy HD and remastered films such as Hitchcock films, love Moonwalker bluray etc but I just don't see how it would improve a poor performance. I've watched Bad Wembley more than anyother pro footage concert at this stage but most of my favourite MJ concerts are poor quality amateur shot boots anyway, such as Bad tours Barcelona and Wembley. I will say I have Bad Tour Yokohama in better quality than Wembley and Yokohama is a great show, but if I had to choose I'd still go with Wembley release. In this day and age I do understand the need and desire for HD but if it's not available it's not that much of an issue for me. Apart from the reasons I've rambled on here, the idea of a Mexico 93 in HD just does nothing for me. Can't get excited over it and I'd probably still end up favouring the tower boot. I also think if they did release Mexico 93 it will have to be highly edited in parts using a few other shows anyway so not sure how the whole HD thing would come about.

Who said anything about HD? I said watchable. Meaning decent quality. Youtube quality is fine for me. Brand new VHS is fine for me. DVD is more than fine for me. That cartoon Wembley we got is not fine. It's disrespectful towards Michael and towards customers who bought it.
 
OnirMJ;4112356 said:
Who said anything about HD? I said watchable. Meaning decent quality. Youtube quality is fine for me. Brand new VHS is fine for me. DVD is more than fine for me. That cartoon Wembley we got is not fine. It's disrespectful towards Michael and towards customers who bought it.

I agree, Mexico will be a huge step in the right direction.. at least we will have confirmation that they are no longer being lazy in regards to film negatives and take all aspects of a release into thought. Even Michael's voice was touched up on the Wembley DVD, it sounds artificial.. nothing like Yokohama or THIS IS IT! audio for example
 
OnirMJ;4112356 said:
Who said anything about HD? I said watchable. Meaning decent quality. Youtube quality is fine for me. Brand new VHS is fine for me. DVD is more than fine for me. That cartoon Wembley we got is not fine. It's disrespectful towards Michael and towards customers who bought it.
So you don't want HD, you don't want cartoon, your happy with YouTube quality, and you don't care about what concert it is. With regards the estate, pretty much everything they've done since MJ's death has been disrespectful in one way or another, so I would half expect them to continue in that tradition, the Mexico concert in VHS is pretty much right up their street.
 
Zakk;4112358 said:
I agree, Mexico will be a huge step in the right direction.. at least we will have confirmation that they are no longer being lazy in regards to film negatives and take all aspects of a release into thought. Even Michael's voice was touched up on the Wembley DVD, it sounds artificial.. nothing like Yokohama or THIS IS IT! audio for example
This Is It is nothing more than a series of snippets sewed together with an overdubed soundtrack of demos and a few nice vocal moments. Let's not pretend it's a more natural portrait of an artist than Wembley. To suggest such is laughable. Wembley may not be available on Bluray or HD surround sound but it's quite a bit more honest than This Is It. Mexico won't be a right step in any direction, merely another highly edited hatchet job of edits and touch ups. Give me something that's HONEST and in poor quality any day of the week.
 
I don't understand how one can just overlook the fact MJ was a total mess during that show :/. Seems kinda cold to me. Mchael's vocals were touched up in This Is it, and most of it was dubbed and edited together, so I don't think it's a very good example. I also don't understand this obsession with video quality. Wembley is very watchable, it's lower quality but I think saying it's unwatchable is an exaggeration to say the least. I think the vocals on it are taken from a few shows right? I've seen people say that.
 
SmoothGangsta;4112363 said:
I don't understand how one can just overlook the fact MJ was a total mess during that show :/. Seems kinda cold to me. Mchael's vocals were touched up in This Is it, and most of it was dubbed and edited together, so I don't think it's a very good example. I also don't understand this obsession with video quality. Wembley is very watchable, it's lower quality but I think saying it's unwatchable is an exaggeration to say the least. I think the vocals on it are taken from a few shows right? I've seen people say that.
Spot on and yeah, Wembley is from a few different nights from a visual perspective also but in its defence it's common practice with live DVDs (or in this case vhs lol) but at least there's an honesty to it and an element of good faith as much as people crib about the quality. Funnily enough I think it's the most watchable most enjoyable concerts to watch.
 
Wembley is not unwatchable at all

This is unwatchable
[video=youtube;UhqVydKEWyw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhqVydKEWyw[/video]
 
^^Okay thanks I was wondering. Yeah it's really nice to watch 'cause MJ looks happy and as if he's having fun. Which I don't think really comes across as much in his later tours, especially HIStory, imo.
 
analogue;4112370 said:
Wembley is not unwatchable at all

This is unwatchable
[video=youtube;UhqVydKEWyw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhqVydKEWyw[/video]
Lol. As bad as some of these amateurs are I love them but you make a good point.
 
And some of you might remember that there was a time when all we had was those amateur recordings to see a full BAD Tour 1988 concert. The Wembley DVD isn't the greatest quality, but it was still a huge step from what we used to have
 
I'm wondering what some people would do if that's all we had, just not watch MJ ever again? lol.
 
analogue;4112373 said:
And some of you might remember that there was a time when all we had was those amateur recordings to see a full BAD Tour 1988 concert. The Wembley DVD isn't the greatest quality, but it was still a huge step from what we used to have
Do I remember? I remember when all I had was a few recorded news snippets on vhs that I would watch over and over again, in a spell! A tape cassette copy of Bad Tour Cork and the local TV special of Bad Tour with the 3 usual clips of WBSS, HBH & APOM. Word!
 
analogue;4112370 said:
Wembley is not unwatchable at all

This is unwatchable
[video=youtube;UhqVydKEWyw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhqVydKEWyw[/video]
What is this? Blocked here in US by Warner.
 
I think a 1992 show with BAD and The Way You Make Me Feel would be best for release. Mainly because the setlist would be different from the Bucharest DVD.
 
Zakk;4112358 said:
I agree, Mexico will be a huge step in the right direction.. at least we will have confirmation that they are no longer being lazy in regards to film negatives and take all aspects of a release into thought. Even Michael's voice was touched up on the Wembley DVD, it sounds artificial.. nothing like Yokohama or THIS IS IT! audio for example

I'm so incredibly disgusted that you have such hyper-focus on quality rather than content. Forget the fact that Mexico 1993 was the final performance before Michael acknowledged a medication dependency and checked himself into rehab. Forget the mediocre performance put forward because of his drastically dwindling mental and emotional state. Forget the pedestrian set list that cuts a handful of the best songs of the show. Forget the fact that releasing a show from this period in his life and showing him in this condition would undoubtedly be the most disrespectful and embarrassing thing the estate has ever done. At least it's in high definition! We get to watch Michael Jackson cry on Blu-Ray! And maybe they'll send it to theaters and we get to watch him struggle through a two-hour performance! And who cares if the fans didn't want to see this terrible show and critics who said it was shameless -- IT'S MICHAEL JACKSON IN HIGH DEFINITION!

That's all I ever get out of these posts anymore. Forgive me for being so harsh here, but I'm here to defend the greatest artist to ever walk the face of the Earth. Never before have I seen such a blatant disrespect for Michael Jackson as a person by fans. He as a human being should mean more to you than the visual quality of the show. While we're at it, why don't we release the footage of This Is It where Michael was repeating sentences and was generally disengaged with the rehearsal process because his addiction popped up again? I mean, it's in HD, right? Isn't that what we all want?

I would buy one thousand copies of the Wembley VHS before I bought a single Blu-Ray of Mexico. I would rather watch a 240p cut of Michael Jackson grinning and going wild on stage than a high definition cut of his mental decline.
 
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