Did MJ Find Love In The Dark (continued)

[SoS]

I love how in this Love thread we're loving eachother even "in our violence"

and yes, it seems we need to add that "disclaimer" every now and then

I've nothing else to add other than this random thought I guess I'll share speaking of Shakespeare, a favorite quote from Hamlet about dreams which seems to fit the thread in more ways than one, and it occurred to me that it also seems to line up with a persistent question that's been touched on lately, so, without further adieu, here's my random thought:


To be, or not to be: that is the question:

Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them?

To die: to sleep; No more; and by a sleep to say
we end The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd.

...To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause

Like I say, it was a random thought but I figured it fit, so ... yeh
:scratch:



opcorn: *going back to reading now*

 

[8701girl]

:wild: wow to think mike loved how discussions bout his songs & stuff .. hope he liked our interpations (sorry guys for the spelling, but im sure u all know what i mean) of his songs. I wonder if he ever agreed with us

 

[cleopatra1975]

now there was a poster before michaels dead..mjssecretlover...she wrote and giggled here...maybe one of you remember..maybe they both readed this forum? and wanted to say your all are in the right direction..who knows

 

[Lily]

Interesting.......


*leaves to put on another movie and finish painting*

 

[Moddie777]

Hi guys,

I only had time to read through a few pages. Been busy with the family.

queen q, Amazing post about my dream and your internet interpretation. That was brillant and insightful. It sent chills. Wow! I thought that was so beautiful and probably very realistic to how Michael had to do things (use the internet to communicate). If this is true, it says alot about his life and what was going on around him. Normally, we pick up the phone, or go visit our loved ones, there are no barriers to knock down or overcome. Yous interpretation tells me, my other dream about the "Shadowy Dark Forces" were very real and played a significant role in why Michael and "her", had so much distance between them as his song lyrics through the years suggest.

Your interpretation of that dream and Cleo's post a few pages back also goes together.
cleo said something about believing Michael didn't have "contact" with his lady love( can't remember the exact post). I have always believed in this theory: This is a woman of whom was not in Michael's immediate path, she wasn't in his everyday world. If she was, they would have alreay been married by now and we would already know of her. His clues have told us time and time again, how much he longed for her through the years to be closer and nearer.

She and Michael must have developed their own way of "talking" to eachother, the internet would be a perfect way of doing that, when there are forces preventing you from being together.

Can not believe all these amazing and beautiful clues after our Michael has gone.....

Wow.

 

[Ape]

I have a question. I don't know if anyone could ever answer it but why couldn't he be with someone he loved? What forces would keep them apart? Also Justus said that because of his identity it prevented him from becoming close enough to those he loved other than his children. Why? I am maybe unable to see that side of things because I'm not in his shoes. I don't understand why, if he wanted to, couldn't Michael Jackson go visit or be with someone he wanted to. Is it because of the media or something else? Wouldn't there be ways for him to spend time in person with someone he wanted to?

I'm sure I've asked this question before in here now that I've written it down again but I still wonder.

I also think it is silly to think that a woman with money won't be a golddigger any more than one who has little money. Some people who have lots of money only want more. They have that greed that makes them never satisfied. On the other side, there are plenty of people who aren't rich because they never placed that importance on monetary things. They find richness in things like relationships and family and creativity or something other than material things. These people are more likely to be victim of golddiggers than to be one themselves. Same can be said for fame. Some people who are famous themselves might want to use someone more famous for their own gain. My point is, not everyone wants fame, and not everyone is after money, so just because someone has fame or money doesn't mean they won't want more than they already have, also just because someone doesn't have it, doesn't mean they will be after it (in fact I would think the opposite might be true). Just wanted to add those thoughts because it never made sense to me when I read that he thought he could only be with someone who was rich and famous because then they automatically won't be after his fame or money, or someone who knew nothing about him.

 

[Ashtanga]

Ash... if they had gotten together this would have been revealed, and well, things could have ended up on shaky ground pretty fast. It was perhaps a very good thing they kept...their...distance.

Here's that dream, with my interpretations in red.

And there ya are. Sorry it took me so long to post my thoughts on that dream but maybe timing was important. Maybe MJ and his lady friend had some real good times together playing online and it made him smile. It probably made her real happy as well.

I'm back... I really can not stay long away from here. lol! :wild:

Wow... Everyone here knows that I think "she" does not exist and never existed. -_- h34r: But now I must confess... :yes: queen g I cried reading your post about the dream, but I do not know why I cried. lol! :wild: It was very beautiful, exciting to read and I had a great mix of sensations. :wub:

Well, I'm speechless. lol! This is it...

I have a question. I don't know if anyone could ever answer it but why couldn't he be with someone he loved? What forces would keep them apart?

Ha! Ha! Ha! lol! :wild:

Now you're thinking like me. That's what I've been talking all the time. -_- Where is the true love that endures all things and beyond barriers? Why two people who truly love unconditionally and are not together? That is simple fact that for me it does not exist and never existed. h34r:

And do not kill me for it! lol! :bugeyed

 

[summer]

I have a question. I don't know if anyone could ever answer it but why couldn't he be with someone he loved? What forces would keep them apart? Also Justus said that because of his identity it prevented him from becoming close enough to those he loved other than his children. Why? I am maybe unable to see that side of things because I'm not in his shoes. I don't understand why, if he wanted to, couldn't Michael Jackson go visit or be with someone he wanted to. Is it because of the media or something else? Wouldn't there be ways for him to spend time in person with someone he wanted to?

I'm sure I've asked this question before in here now that I've written it down again but I still wonder.

Yeah, in a way I can't understand that either...but then again I can. (If that makes any sense? :doh: :lol. I mean, in a way you'd think "Well, how hard is it to pick up the phone and call someone?!" :doh: I mean, he did have access to a phone, I'm sure, and I doubt anyone prevented him from using it. So you know, that's at least ONE way to contact someone and stay in contact. And I can't see someone preventing him to have friends come over to his house either, really. I mean, someone can try...but wouldn't it come out pretty soon if they did do so against MJ's wishes and without him knowing? I mean, let's say he calls someone and invites them over on a particular day at a particular time. Then that person goes over...and (let's say) security doesn't let that person in. If you were that person, wouldn't you call him and say "Hey what's up? They don't let me in? Can you come down, or talk to them?". Or if they tell you "Michael changed his plans, he's not at home", etc....wouldn't you still call him or at least mention that the next time you talk to him...or text him or whatever and say something like "Sorry we couldn't hang out after all", etc. I mean, if you do talk on the phone, and have contact, I don't see how you can't see each other. I mean, people can of course try to sabotage it and play mind games and start some "she said/ he said" thing...but don't you think anyone would catch on what is going on if everytime a certain person was supposed to come over, she was sent away with some excuse, or MJ was told some excuse, and then every time you talk you realize it was the same security? Wouldn't you change your security then? :scratch: I mean, at least that's what I'd do. But then again, I'm not a celebrity and don't know how communication in "that world" works, so maybe it's not as easy as we all make it to be? The only thing I have noticed about MJ being "controlled" in a way by security is when he is out and about though....Often it looks like he'd want to go greet all the fans, but his security seems to prevent it...or he turns around and it looks liek he wants to go one direction, but his people block his way and usher him to another direction, so he has to go that way. So that's the only thing I could think of why it would be difficult for him to physically get in contact....because sometimes his people literally block his way, and he also has to listen to his security to be safe. And that's because he is MICHAEL JACKSON. It's all because of his fame. Then again, he could easily meet someone in his home or in his hotel, without anyone knowing or disturbing them...don't you think? I mean, even with just fans...he used to always invite fans to his room to meet him or would send his bodyguards down to get stuff from fans or to bring certain fans that he himself had picked to go meet him. So he did have a way to get in physical contact that way too. Not that easy...but it was possible. In London in March he didn't invite any fans to meet him actually. The whole athmosphere was a bit "weird" to be honest...totally different from what I had been used to before. We didn't even know where his windows were until after the press conference. :mello: It sort of felt like he just wanted to do the public stuff when he absolutely HAD to and wanted to be left alone and have his privacy other wise. I can remember how I was thinking (and I said it out loud as well at his hotel) that maybe he was tired of the "fan stuff" and fans being loud and all that and maybe he just wanted to spend time with his family and then when he was on stage, fans could see him. The people from the hotel told us MJ was sleeping in a sound proof room and didn't have windows to the street. That was the day before the press conference. Then after the press conference we still didn't know where his windows were. After a while this one fan came to stand in front of us all and said "I've been told exclusively where MJ's windows are! You don't have to believe me...but I've been told they are at the other side...so anyone who wants to see him, should go there!" So we all went there and I think within 5-10 minutes MJ was waving to the fans and BEAMING. Anyways, I can remember that so clearly because I was actually about to leave the hotel like only 10 minutes before that because I was freezing and it felt like we weren't really welcome there. Then this one other fan who had to leave was like "No...stay a little while..maybe you'll miss something if you leave now!" So I was like..."I doubt it...but okay..I guess I could hang around for maybe another half an hour to an hour...but then I'll leave." I am SO GLAD she told me to stay...because I would have missed seeing MJ at the window!! Anyways, I just remember all that because the "vibe" was a bit weird and a little "unwelcoming" at first in my opinion. I was thinking "I wondr why MJ doesn't wanna see the fans? Maybe he's tired of it all and wants to be left alone?". Anyways...not sure what my point is...but I guess in a way someone could "control" the situation if they wanted to. I mean, what if someone wanted MJ to think he has no fans left or that the fans don't care about him...and MJ looked out the window and saw there are no fans and thought "OMG, it's true!!! The fans have totally abandoned me!! There isn't a soul out there!" :boohoo: (Because we all were standing at the BACK of the hotel...bcause we didn't know where his windows were). Then on the other hand, I guess MJ could control it too if he indeed wanted to be left alone. :scratch:Anyways, I guess the point is that ther maybe were ways other people could prevent him from getting in contact with someone...but then on th other hand I think there were ways MJ could have used to get around it all. :scratch: :lol: Heck if I know...:lol:

As to "other ways" why it could have been hard for him to "get in contact"...I guess maybe his name and status could have been one reason. You know, not so easy for him to just walk up to someone and start chatting like a normal person would. Because the other person would probably be freaking out like :woohoo: "OMG!!! THAT'S MICHAEL JACKSON!!", or they'd be like :stretcher Or they's immediately start asking him for his autograph or to get their picture taken with him or they'd start telling him how much they love his music....or they'd run to the tabloids right after that to tell everyone what they talked about, etc. etc. And even if he did manage to talk to someone without them freaking out and being all :woohoo: ...it must have been very difficult for him to trust people, especially girls (the damn gold diggers...as he seemed to be thinking! :lol

Anyways...no idea. :scratch:Just my guesses on why it could have been difficult for him to get close to people. Even though I do think there would have been ways to get around it...but maybe part of the "isolation" was to some extend his "orders" (as in...someone called but he didn't feel like taking the call..or didn't want to see someone. And if those people complained he could easily be like "Oh...no one ever told me..." :innocent: :lolSort of like what normal people do too "Oh.. sorry I missed your call...I didn't have my cell phone with me." :innocent: :lol). And maybe part of it was his own fears getting the best of him, and he didn't want to do anything out of a fear of getting hurt again? :scratch:

I also think it is silly to think that a woman with money won't be a golddigger any more than one who has little money. Some people who have lots of money only want more. They have that greed that makes them never satisfied. On the other side, there are plenty of people who aren't rich because they never placed that importance on monetary things. They find richness in things like relationships and family and creativity or something other than material things. These people are more likely to be victim of golddiggers than to be one themselves. Same can be said for fame. Some people who are famous themselves might want to use someone more famous for their own gain. My point is, not everyone wants fame, and not everyone is after money, so just because someone has fame or money doesn't mean they won't want more than they already have, also just because someone doesn't have it, doesn't mean they will be after it (in fact I would think the opposite might be true). Just wanted to add those thoughts because it never made sense to me when I read that he thought he could only be with someone who was rich and famous because then they automatically won't be after his fame or money, or someone who knew nothing about him.

I know. That whole gold digger thing was a bit...much. :lol: :lol: Like "Thanks Mike! How sweet of you! Just because I wasn't born into a rich family and chose to become a nurse and HELP people (which doesn't make one a millionaire), instead of becoming a stock broker on Wall Street or an acctress, etc. (and possibly becoming rich)...I'm a gold digger in your opinion". :doh: :lol: :lol: I mean, I do get what he was trying to say, I think...but I also do think that he didn't see the "other side" of rich and famous people either. I mean, I am sure he had to deal with enough REAL gold diggers during his life, so I can understand why he'd think that way and be very careful...But on the other hand I think he failed to see what problems being with someone famous would have brought. I mean, yeah, maybe he could have been with some famous artist, or acctress or whatever...but did he really think they would give up THEIR career to be with him? I mean, other wise she would have had her people telling what SHE needs to do...she had her image to take care of, she needed to go promote her stuff...and maybe she had her house, etc. that she wanted to kep and live in, etc.? I'm not saying it couldn't work...I'm just saying that yeah, maybe she had her money...but it didn't necessarily mean it would have been easier or woudl have worked out better than with someone who was not famous. I mean...there is always the possibility of a pre-nuptial too, right? If you're scared someone is only after your money? But I don't know...maybe he just felt that only someone who was famous and in "that world" could truly understand him? That's possible? :scratch:

 

[Ashtanga]

Yeah, in a way I can't understand that either...but then again I can. (If that makes any sense? :doh: :lol. I mean, in a way you'd think "Well, how hard is it to pick up the phone and call someone?!" :doh: I mean, he did have access to a phone, I'm sure, and I doubt anyone prevented him from using it. So you know, that's at least ONE way to contact someone and stay in contact. And I can't see someone preventing him to have friends come over to his house either, really. I mean, someone can try...but wouldn't it come out pretty soon if they did do so against MJ's wishes and without him knowing? I mean, let's say he calls someone and invites them over on a particular day at a particular time. Then that person goes over...and (let's say) security doesn't let that person in. If you were that person, wouldn't you call him and say "Hey what's up? They don't let me in? Can you come down, or talk to them?". Or if they tell you "Michael changed his plans, he's not at home", etc....wouldn't you still call him or at least mention that the next time you talk to him...or text him or whatever and say something like "Sorry we couldn't hang out after all", etc. I mean, if you do talk on the phone, and have contact, I don't see how you can't see each other. I mean, people can of course try to sabotage it and play mind games and start some "she said/ he said" thing...but don't you think anyone would catch on what is going on if everytime a certain person was supposed to come over, she was sent away with some excuse, or MJ was told some excuse, and then every time you talk you realize it was the same security? Wouldn't you change your security then? :scratch: I mean, at least that's what I'd do. But then again, I'm not a celebrity and don't know how communication in "that world" works, so maybe it's not as easy as we all make it to be? The only thing I have noticed about MJ being "controlled" in a way by security is when he is out and about though....Often it looks like he'd want to go greet all the fans, but his security seems to prevent it...or he turns around and it looks liek he wants to go one direction, but his people block his way and usher him to another direction, so he has to go that way. So that's the only thing I could think of why it would be difficult for him to physically get in contact....because sometimes his people literally block his way, and he also has to listen to his security to be safe. And that's because he is MICHAEL JACKSON. It's all because of his fame. Then again, he could easily meet someone in his home or in his hotel, without anyone knowing or disturbing them...don't you think? I mean, even with just fans...he used to always invite fans to his room to meet him or would send his bodyguards down to get stuff from fans or to bring certain fans that he himself had picked to go meet him. So he did have a way to get in physical contact that way too. Not that easy...but it was possible. In London in March he didn't invite any fans to meet him actually. The whole athmosphere was a bit "weird" to be honest...totally different from what I had been used to before. We didn't even know where his windows were until after the press conference. :mello: It sort of felt like he just wanted to do the public stuff when he absolutely HAD to and wanted to be left alone and have his privacy other wise. I can remember how I was thinking (and I said it out loud as well at his hotel) that maybe he was tired of the "fan stuff" and fans being loud and all that and maybe he just wanted to spend time with his family and then when he was on stage, fans could see him. The people from the hotel told us MJ was sleeping in a sound proof room and didn't have windows to the street. That was the day before the press conference. Then after the press conference we still didn't know where his windows were. After a while this one fan came to stand in front of us all and said "I've been told exclusively where MJ's windows are! You don't have to believe me...but I've been told they are at the other side...so anyone who wants to see him, should go there!" So we all went there and I think within 5-10 minutes MJ was waving to the fans and BEAMING. Anyways, I can remember that so clearly because I was actually about to leave the hotel like only 10 minutes before that because I was freezing and it felt like we weren't really welcome there. Then this one other fan who had to leave was like "No...stay a little while..maybe you'll miss something if you leave now!" So I was like..."I doubt it...but okay..I guess I could hang around for maybe another half an hour to an hour...but then I'll leave." I am SO GLAD she told me to stay...because I would have missed seeing MJ at the window!! Anyways, I just remember all that because the "vibe" was a bit weird and a little "unwelcoming" at first in my opinion. I was thinking "I wondr why MJ doesn't wanna see the fans? Maybe he's tired of it all and wants to be left alone?". Anyways...not sure what my point is...but I guess in a way someone could "control" the situation if they wanted to. I mean, what if someone wanted MJ to think he has no fans left or that the fans don't care about him...and MJ looked out the window and saw there are no fans and thought "OMG, it's true!!! The fans have totally abandoned me!! There isn't a soul out there!" :boohoo: (Because we all were standing at the BACK of the hotel...bcause we didn't know where his windows were). Then on the other hand, I guess MJ could control it too if he indeed wanted to be left alone. :scratch:Anyways, I guess the point is that ther maybe were ways other people could prevent him from getting in contact with someone...but then on th other hand I think there were ways MJ could have used to get around it all. :scratch: :lol: Heck if I know...:lol:

As to "other ways" why it could have been hard for him to "get in contact"...I guess maybe his name and status could have been one reason. You know, not so easy for him to just walk up to someone and start chatting like a normal person would. Because the other person would probably be freaking out like :woohoo: "OMG!!! THAT'S MICHAEL JACKSON!!", or they'd be like :stretcher Or they's immediately start asking him for his autograph or to get their picture taken with him or they'd start telling him how much they love his music....or they'd run to the tabloids right after that to tell everyone what they talked about, etc. etc. And even if he did manage to talk to someone without them freaking out and being all :woohoo: ...it must have been very difficult for him to trust people, especially girls (the damn gold diggers...as he seemed to be thinking! :lol

Anyways...no idea. :scratch:Just my guesses on why it could have been difficult for him to get close to people. Even though I do think there would have been ways to get around it...but maybe part of the "isolation" was to some extend his "orders" (as in...someone called but he didn't feel like taking the call..or didn't want to see someone. And if those people complained he could easily be like "Oh...no one ever told me..." :innocent: :lolSort of like what normal people do too "Oh.. sorry I missed your call...I didn't have my cell phone with me." :innocent: :lol). And maybe part of it was his own fears getting the best of him, and he didn't want to do anything out of a fear of getting hurt again? :scratch:

:wild:

:clapping:

Summer, I agree with everything you said. :yes: Congratulations for your post.

 

[summer]

By the way something funny just hit me. :lol: :lol: Made me laugh out loud. :lol: Did you watch the Oprah interview and hear how Kenny said that Michael called him and said "We need fireflies! Fireflies, Kenny!". :lol: :lol: What did he need fireflies for? Because they...."glow in the dark"? :wild: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:

Sorry..I had to! :toofunny:

 

[Ape]

Which brings us back to the song.

To put myself in her shoes, it would be insulting to have him think she was after his money when it's just about love. If that was the reason for not seeing her and the reason they weren't together was trust issues, how hurtful would that be to be questioned like that? When she would probably know it couldn't be further from the truth, and he should even see it through her actions or whatever, if there is love.

She would have to put herself in his place to see that it would take time to trust even someone who felt like they could be the one (for both of them). Still, if they had a relationship where trust should be involved, and he didn't trust her or thought she could be after fame or money or was just a game, imagine how hurtful that would be for her. She'd be hurt, angry, heartbroken, all at once to know that her love was seen as something so cheap. It would feel terrible.

..and then in the song... he asks for understanding. Probably for this very reason. Which she probably gave him, but she would have to continue giving him understanding, and he would have to give her some understanding as well if there were times when she just couldn't understand. When it would get to be too much. I would imagine at times it would become too much to understand, but that's where love comes in. If they truly love each other, they'd get past it and then feel like idiots for questioning each other I guess.

So, I think this could be the reason for them not being together, which is all explained in the song (IF .. all the disclaimers.. If the song was something he wished to put out at this time, if the concerts were named with this meaning in mind, if there really is someone in the dark or light or anywhere for him, if it is not just a game and is real and real love, then maybe all this would be factors involved in explaining it all.)

Amor omnia vincit... I hear

 

[Ashtanga]

Just to illustrate this discussion:

Can anyone resist? I can not resist... :wub::wub::wub:



The other day I posted a sonnet of my favorite Brazilian poet: Vinicius de Moraes. Here's another sonnet that I love and whom everything to do with this discussion and with Michael Jackson. :wub:

For Michael:


Sonnet Loyalty

All, my love will be aware
Before, and with such zeal, and always, and both
That even in the face of greater charm
His charm was more my thinking.

I live it every time they
And in honor I will spread my song
And laugh my laughter and shed my tears
In his grief and his joy.

And so, when I later look
Perhaps the death agony of those who live
Who knows the loneliness, to those who love

I could tell me of love (I had):
That is not immortal, since it is called
But that is infinite while it lasts.

Vinicius de Moraes


:wub::wub::wub:

 

[SoS]

See Summer, this is exactly what I love about you. I had to stop reading just to comment on this ...

Yeah, in a way I can't understand that either...but then again I can. (If that makes any sense? :doh: :lol.

:lol:

:yes: you have a way of articulating the intracacies of how the mind can work sometimes ... and yes it makes perfect sense to me. That, I feel, is what keeps us all here, trying to figure it out along with the music. :lmao: you seriously crakk me up Girl.

The rest of your post sparked a thought that made me laugh a long time too. And that is ...

... so maybe she could have simply gone to Security and said with the uttermost earnestness,

"Michael sent me some messages in his music, well I'm almost a hundred percent sure anyway, so would you just let him know that I'm here"

Security: OK, what's your name?

Lady: (she tells him)

Security: So, you're saying Michael made a song called ... (her name)?

Lady: Well, not actually. See um ... we crossed eachothers' path in this really odd way about twenty some years ago and I figured he'd forgotten me until I heard certain songs, for instance this one song"

Security: What does the song say that made you know he was talking to you?

Lady: Well, one of them was You Are Not Alone. Do you know the part at the end where he shouts, "you and me! together! together!!!" :yes: yeh that part

(...as she goes on and on ... he nods to other Security guy who leaves)

Security: Oh ok, I understand, hold on a sec, (as he picks up the phone finger unnoticeably on the hang up button) as he says, "yes there's a lady here who says ...

And within minutes there's a squad car in the driveway

oh and Summer this crakked me up too

By the way something funny just hit me. :lol: :lol: Made me laugh out loud. :lol: Did you watch the Oprah interview and hear how Kenny said that Michael called him and said "We need fireflies! Fireflies, Kenny!". :lol: :lol: What did he need fireflies for? Because they...."glow in the dark"? :wild:

all I can say is WOW :wub: really makes you feel he was reading this thread


ok, that was the thought, going back to reading now.





:eat:

 

[SoS]

Ash this is the same assumption I'm using to say she did not see him even though he saw her. Because NO, she would absolutely NOT have even tried to resist. All those songs about resisting would have never been made. That's jmho and until something else adds up, I'm sticking to it.

WOW @ Ape and Moddie's posts!

 

[Ape]

Kitty says she's tired, and wants to know if Michael could just please esplain it all to her while he tucks her in.

 

[Moddie777]

Hey Ape?

You have the million dollar question about the forces keeping them apart, why and so on.

Though my recent post didn't indicate it, I do believe Michael and his lady love had "some" interaction, time together and contact, but limited, according to his own clues through the years, if we are to believe in the theory of this thread.

When distance and time stood between them, they may have resorted in other unique ways
to communicate.

 

[Sdeidjs]

True. Im sure

mike had 2 deal with plenty of gold diggers in his life!

unk:

I wholeheartedly agree...not just with woman but all across the board..!

Most not all see $$$ signs...that in it self would have a great impact on how one would be able to ever trust another.

If we truly THINK about it...one in Mr.Jackson's shoes would ask themselves...Does this person truly love me for me or are they just saying this because I am rich and famous..?

:angel:Heal The World...WE Are The World...Education IS The Key~~~

 

[cleopatra1975]

hmm ladies... why wouldnt i have contact with someone i love? maybe she got a boyfriend or a husband already?and this is the shady man and of course all the ppl around him too. maybe she already died? maybe he wanted her safe from all those paparazzis? maybe we can come to a conclusion if we think we are michael jackson. why would i send messages especially on the internet? maybe he read at this place something or noticed that she is also here? i dont know..it could be it could be not..so more i think so more i come to a conclusion that he knew she was on the internet searching for him somehow..cause for me it does not make any sense.what do you think all ?
btw when i read in this page sometimes i laugh, sometimes i get sad, sometimes just want to know what you all think..its better than any book to read in here. You all are absolutely wonderfull persons. Just wanted to say.huggs to all

 

[SoS]

^ I was just about to shut it down when I saw these thoughts. It makes perfect sense to me except I don't feel she died because MJ seems to have somehow kept track of "her" through the years, came around etc. and he would have known, I don't think she has a man because none of the songs say very much about "he", "him" etc. except maybe Serious Effect which makes me think someone was around "her" at the time who MJ was aware of, it just sounds like that to me, but interesting thoughts. Gotta fly.

All, have fun!

 

[Sdeidjs]

This is it, here I stand
I’m the light of the world, I feel grand
Got this love I can feel
And I know yes for sure it is real

And it feels as though I’ve seen your face a thousand times
And you said you really know me too yourself
And I know that you have got addicted with your eyes
But you say you gonna live it for yourself.

I never heard a single word about you
Falling in love wasn’t my plan
I never thought that I would be your lover
C’mon baby, just understand

This is it, I can say
I’m the light of the world, run away
We can feel, this is real
Every time I’m in love that I feel

And I feel as though I’ve known you since 1,000 years
And you tell me that you’ve seen my face before
And you said to me you don’t want me hanging round
Many times, wanna do it here before

I never heard a single word about you
Falling in love wasn’t my plan
I never thought that I would be your lover
C’mon baby, just understand

This is it, I can feel
I’m the light of the world, this is real
Feel my song, we can say
And I tell you I feel that way

And I feel as though I’ve known you for a thousand years
And you said you want some of this yourself
And you said won’t you go with me, on a while
And I know that it’s really cool myself

I never heard a single word about you
Falling in love wasn’t my plan
I never thought that I would be your lover
C’mon baby, just understand

I never heard a single word about you
Falling in love wasn’t my plan
I never thought that I would be your lover
C’mon baby, just understand

*************************

Michael was very much in love before he left, and he's showing that he spent quite a bit of time listening to the words of the one he was in love with. Notice the lines where he's saying, "you said...you say...you tell me...you said to me..." this all shows he was talking to her, listening to her and getting to know her. How else could her feel like he's known her for a thousand years?

In "The Way You Love Me" he also mentioned something that she said to him. There is the line where

he says, "You told me you love me."

And about the way that he's using the number 1,000 in "This Is It." He did the same thing in "You Are So Beautiful." In this song

he said, "You are so beautiful to me. Your true love showed me the way, the way I had to go. I walked with you a thousand miles through hurtful lies standing strong with you fighting this all through (so through)...."

Quite often in the past, he said no one understood him. In "This Is It," he

doesn't

seem to

feel that way anymore.

He said how long it feels like he's been knowing her and how she said she knows him too.

Notice that he's not saying anything in the song to make it seem like he doesn't feel it's true.

Everything in "This Is It"

reveals he was content with her.

And once again he's not saying anything about money, what he'll give her or where he'll take her.

He's

only

pleasantly singing about how he feels.

This is very refreshing. It was a long time coming and it happened just in time. Actually, in "The Way You Love Me" he said she came in time.

Thank God for that. Michael was in love before he left. He's been singing about his love for her since "One More Chance." He's been singing to her since "One More Chance." He was saying, "I can't stop loving you" at the end of it. In "Beautiful Girl" he was saying, "Can't you see that I'm in love with you?" In "This Is It" he said "Feel my song." Can't get any clearer than that.

Michael

the balladeer

was consistently serenading the one that he had fallen in love with and his words are very clear...very loving...very affectionate.

:wub:

unk:

:angel:Heal The World...WE Are The World...Education IS The Key~~~

 

[Ape]

That could be Moddie. Though it still doesn't explain why only for a short time would they be together and not for ALL time. Then again,I don't have to hear all the answers just because I'm curious.

Nor does little fluffy fufu here

(in case anyone missed this little sweetie)

 

[summer]

See Summer, this is exactly what I love about you. I had to stop reading just to comment on this ...

:lol:

:yes: you have a way of articulating the intracacies of how the mind can work sometimes ... and yes it makes perfect sense to me. That, I feel, is what keeps us all here, trying to figure it out along with the music. :lmao: you seriously crakk me up Girl.

The rest of your post sparked a thought that made me laugh a long time too. And that is ...

... so maybe she could have simply gone to Security and said with the uttermost earnestness,

"Michael sent me some messages in his music, well I'm almost a hundred percent sure anyway, so would you just let him know that I'm here"

Security: OK, what's your name?

Lady: (she tells him)

Security: So, you're saying Michael made a song called ... (her name)?

Lady: Well, not actually. See um ... we crossed eachothers' path in this really odd way about twenty some years ago and I figured he'd forgotten me until I heard certain songs, for instance this one song"

Security: What does the song say that made you know he was talking to you?

Lady: Well, one of them was You Are Not Alone. Do you know the part at the end where he shouts, "you and me! together! together!!!" :yes: yeh that part

(...as she goes on and on ... he nods to other Security guy who leaves)

Security: Oh ok, I understand, hold on a sec, (as he picks up the phone finger unnoticeably on the hang up button) as he says, "yes there's a lady here who says ...

And within minutes there's a squad car in the driveway

oh and Summer this crakked me up too

all I can say is WOW :wub: really makes you feel he was reading this thread


ok, that was the thought, going back to reading now.





:eat:

:doh::doh::doh::doh::doh: at the "girl walking up to security". :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: That cracked me up! :lol: :lol: I would love to see their faces if someone did that! :lol: :lol: :lol: (Then again, I am sure there were plenty of THAT kind too who were trying to get in to get to their "husband, Michael". :doh: :toofunny: :toofunny: ) That "you are not alone" part had me CRACKING UP!!! :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: "You know...that end part where he shouts 'you and me! together! together!' yeah that part"...I was CRYING with laughter at that!!!! :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: TOOOOOOOOOOOOO FUNNY!!!! :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :hysterical: :hysterical:

And the fireflies bit just cracked me up because it reminded me of the time we were joking about the glow in the dark stuff. :lol: I was on my bed, relaxing, and I happened to think of what Kenny said about the fireflies, and then I was thinking "I wonder why MJ wanted fireflies...? What was he gonna use them for? What kind of idea did he have for them?"...and as I was trying to figure it out, I remembered that fireflies glow in the dark...and it reminded me of this thread and our glow in the dark conversation and it cracked me up. :toofunny: :toofunny: I mean, I know MJ had some fabulous idea behind his fireflies, but the thought of him coming here and reading the thread and our "glow in the dark discussion" and then jumping up all of the sudden and throwing his hand up in the air in excitement and going "THAT'S IT!!!!!! :wild: GLOW IN THE DARK STUFF!!!! :clapping: FIREFLIES!!!! :clapping: I GOTTA CALL KENNY!!! :sarmoti:" *calls Kenny at 3 a.m. "KENNY GET FIREFLIES FOR THE SHOW!!!" :clapping: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: I mean, it cracks me up because of the IMAGE I get when I think about it. The IDEA is too funny! :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:

 

[Sdeidjs]

Someone who understands those types of relationships wrote this song ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cHZQNWp9yI a little comic relief in here too ..

as for forever

... who knows ...

how long is too long

... is that

love

?

edit: I feel to add the disclaimer that says, who in this thread really knows what Michael needs in that way (except Michael of course). Most in here are just going by the music and we all see that differently.

That

to me

is the beauty of this thread.

At the same time, if what you're saying is true,

there's nothing saying he didn't get his physical needs met, with or without "her" in his life

and of course, nobody KNOWS that either and

whomever,

if anyone,

met those needs

it does not seem to be the subject of his music. Thus, the point of this thread and the points brought out about the songs.

unk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmuF3jiufww

:angel:Heal The World...WE Are The World...Education IS The Key~~~

 

[Sdeidjs]

I'm not really seeing where its, "either" / "or"

there are just too many ways things can be

and he did say, "This Is It" so who knows what his plans were

unk:

:angel:Heal The World...WE Are The World...Education IS The Key~~~

 

[Sdeidjs]

:scratch:I think I was not so clear and I should have specified...

I have not mentioned and did not think about sex. lol! -_- This is an important ingredient, but is not essential and is the basis for a relationship, other ingredients are more important and fundamental and should be in first place in a relationship. Sex is only one answer of true love that one feels for others and is only a supplement. What I meant by "physical contact" is to be together, to live the moments, share all things good and bad with each other, sharing life together, a look, a touch, a smile, conversations, the presence of a and so many other things... So, for me, this "absence" love cools, cools the relationship and is very, very, very difficult for the distance relationship work.

That's what I meant...




That's what I say all the time... -_-

What were the plans of Michael?

What exactly he wanted in life?

Nobody knows, only he knows. -_-

Nobody knows what went on in Michael's head, much less what were their thoughts, no one lived with it, no one was with him 24 hours a day... so I say, I say and I will always say it is impossible to be 100% sure that something is very, very, very far from our eyes that no one knows the true reality. What is true is to discuss what may or could have happened, speculating and nothing more. This is where the imagination and fly away with what everyone would like that had happened in Michael's life. In the imagination

everything is possible

and create in our minds a perfect life for

Michael with a genuine love

. A life for him no pain, no bad people, without obstacles, without danger and away from anything bad that a lot and

love him unconditionally.

But the

reality is far from perfect and we know that Michael's life was never easy and always has been very difficult.

For those who are outside the realm of Michael is easy to see only perfection and good things, but the only Michael and no one knows the true reality of it is that he felt that all the skin and not us.






*Popescu, welcome and thanks for the video! (I love your username)


*Tha, I fully agree with what you said:

"Michael could have a relationship, any relationship with someone at a distance (as we fans, for example), but the love that he needs, the real love that is missing in his life, can't be lived at a distance, this love will not survive!
Michael is a grown man! He doesn't want an adventure, he wants a real relationship, a real love, a love for all life!"

:angel:Heal The World...WE Are The World...Education IS The Key~~~

 

[Sdeidjs]

*That's funny Popescu! I always thought MJ's songs were about Miss Ross!

Anyway, I just wanted to say: ash and tha, I liked your posts. You brought up many valid points. I think it would be difficult to have just a "spiritual" relationship with a person, from a distance, forever, since humans are comprised of a soul and a body and the flesh needs the flesh, as you have stated. And yes, one or even both of them, may have been tempted to find someone else to fulfill their needs or ... even give up on their "unique" relationship altogether. However, I feel that

even when two people can't be together "physically," that doesn't stop the love that they have for each other.

And, while I feel that it's

God's intention to bring two people together

"physically," the process can sometimes be slowed down by various things. The people involved could be trying to get ahead of God in their impatience, which would slow things down. They could be making mistakes. That would definitely slow down the process because then God would have to spend time helping them undo their mistakes. It could also be a long process simply because God has to take time to do some things in one or, more than likely, both of the people, or their situation. And sometimes things just take the time they take. For instance, when a couple is going to have a baby, it will take them 9 months to realize this dream. They could do everything perfectly, but it will still take them 9 months, simply because that is how long it takes.

Something else that

people don't realize is that when dealing with the spirit world, there is goodness and light, but there is also darkness and evil. And, as we all know, Michael was/is a very special person

, otherwise we probably wouldn't even be spending time writing about him on this board. I don't think people realize

how much opposition Michael has really had to endure because of that darkness. We have seen him lose almost everything because of it, if it had not been for the grace of God. If it has been this way in his life with everything else, I think it wouldn't be too difficult to believe that he would experience the same opposition when it came to his "someone in the dark" (if she exists). I don't think the same forces who were against him in other areas of his life would exactly be willing to roll out the red carpet for him and "her."

Everything came hard for Michael and I don't think love was any exception. "Love is a battlefield" could have been his motto. However, just because of the battles, it doesn't mean the love story is necessarily over. Perhaps

God had to do something very unique to finally bring them together. Perhaps it has to happen in the next life, or perhaps the faith they have in each other and their love could bring about an incredible miracle.

We really don't know how it will play out in the end. But, as I had stated before, God's delay is not necessarily denial.

It may have taken a long time, perhaps a very long time, but they may have somehow found a way, with God's help, to overcome all of their battles.

Maybe that is what he meant when he sang, "This Is It"! And, aren't

things sweeter when you've had to wait for them

a long time?:yes:

unk:Impressive

:angel:Heal The World...We Are The World...Education IS The Key~~~

 

[summer]

hmm ladies... why wouldnt i have contact with someone i love? maybe she got a boyfriend or a husband already?and this is the shady man and of course all the ppl around him too. maybe she already died? maybe he wanted her safe from all those paparazzis? maybe we can come to a conclusion if we think we are michael jackson. why would i send messages especially on the internet? maybe he read at this place something or noticed that she is also here? i dont know..it could be it could be not..so more i think so more i come to a conclusion that he knew she was on the internet searching for him somehow..cause for me it does not make any sense.what do you think all ?
btw when i read in this page sometimes i laugh, sometimes i get sad, sometimes just want to know what you all think..its better than any book to read in here. You all are absolutely wonderfull persons. Just wanted to say.huggs to all

Yeah, that's the part I don't really get either. :scratch: :lol: I mean, if he liked her, why didn't he contact her and make a move? Or maybe he didn't know her phone number or contact info...? Maybe she was some pretty sales person in a Disney store (or something..:lol that he saw and briefly talked to and liked..and then when he went there again some other time..she wasn't there. And then the next time, she was there again and they talked again, and he liked her more, but was too shy to ask for her phone number, etc. and then when he went there again, she wasn't there...and not during the next time...nor the next....etc. But then after a while she was there again...but maybe it was too chaotic to get close and talk or whatever...and maybe he then had to travel, so he wasn't around...and it went on like that? :lol: There could be lots of possiblities actually. :scratch:

Actually that just reminded something that happened to me...that kind of relates to that. When I was a student, there was this one guy who was kind of cute and very nice. His friend was in a couple of the same classes as I was and we'd sometimes say hi and talk briefly. So that's how I got to know that other guy, because he'd sometimes be with that friend of his, when I'd say hi. So then we started saying hi if we saw each other because we recognized each other. And then sometimes stopped to talk and say hi. I knew he was a couple of years older than I was and I knew what his first name was...but that was all. But we'd say hi and stuff and then when ever he'd see me he'd be like "Hey pretty lady, how are you doing?!". He'd always call me "pretty lady"...which I actually liked, because he also said it in a classy way...not the "hey baby" way...not the "sleazy" way. So I liked him because he seemed nice and polite and like a nice person. Then one day when we saw each other at the uni he was like "Hey you wanna go have a cup of coffee with me?". And what did I do...? I was like "Uhm....nnnoooo thanks....". And then he was like "oh..okay..." and then he left. And I never saw him again. And the whole thing pretty much happened because I was EXTREMELY shy...and didn't know what to say. :doh: And what I DID say...came out totally wrong! :doh: :lol: I was hesitating because I kind of "freaked out" because a GUY was asking me to go have coffee with him...I wasn't hesitating because I didn't wanna go. :doh: And he asked me if I wanna go get a cup of COFFEE....and I don't drink coffee...I hate coffee....so that's why I said "no thanks". :doh::doh::doh: :lol: :lol: But I didn't really mean, I wouldn't wanna go anywhere with him. :doh: :lol: Had he added "Well a bottle of soda then?"...it maybe would have worked out. :lol: Yeah, he probably didn't think he'd need to be THAT specific. :lol: But you know...I kind of took it he meant literally "a cup of coffee"...I didn't think he might be asking me out. :doh: :lol: Anyways, so of course later on it dawned on me what a stupid idiot I had been, so I kept hoping to see him again, so that I could ask him if he'd still wanna go have a cup of SOMETHING (coffee/tea/soda/:lol with me. Because I did like him and did wanna get to know him better. But I never saw him again. Neither his friend. And since I only knew his first name, and not his last name, I couldn't search for his e-mail addy on the uni e-mail and that way had no way of contacting him. So that was the end of it. But I've often thought about him and about the "what if's".

So you know, it's possible something like that could have happened to MJ too? That he found someone he liked...and then for whatever reason...he just didn't have a way of contacting her but kept thinking about her anyhow? :scratch:It's possible. :scratch:

 

[Lorraine]

Yeah, that's the part I don't really get either. :scratch: :lol: I mean, if he liked her, why didn't he contact her and make a move? Or maybe he didn't know her phone number or contact info...? Maybe she was some pretty sales person in a Disney store (or something..:lol that he saw and briefly talked to and liked..and then when he went there again some other time..she wasn't there. And then the next time, she was there again and they talked again, and he liked her more, but was too shy to ask for her phone number, etc. and then when he went there again, she wasn't there...and not during the next time...nor the next....etc. But then after a while she was there again...but maybe it was too chaotic to get close and talk or whatever...and maybe he then had to travel, so he wasn't around...and it went on like that? :lol: There could be lots of possiblities actually. :scratch:

Actually that just reminded something that happened to me...that kind of relates to that. When I was a student, there was this one guy who was kind of cute and very nice. His friend was in a couple of the same classes as I was and we'd sometimes say hi and talk briefly. So that's how I got to know that other guy, because he'd sometimes be with that friend of his, when I'd say hi. So then we started saying hi if we saw each other because we recognized each other. And then sometimes stopped to talk and say hi. I knew he was a couple of years older than I was and I knew what his first name was...but that was all. But we'd say hi and stuff and then when ever he'd see me he'd be like "Hey pretty lady, how are you doing?!". He'd always call me "pretty lady"...which I actually liked, because he also said it in a classy way...not the "hey baby" way...not the "sleazy" way. So I liked him because he seemed nice and polite and like a nice person. Then one day when we saw each other at the uni he was like "Hey you wanna go have a cup of coffee with me?". And what did I do...? I was like "Uhm....nnnoooo thanks....". And then he was like "oh..okay..." and then he left. And I never saw him again. And the whole thing pretty much happened because I was EXTREMELY shy...and didn't know what to say. :doh: And what I DID say...came out totally wrong! :doh: :lol: I was hesitating because I kind of "freaked out" because a GUY was asking me to go have coffee with him...I wasn't hesitating because I didn't wanna go. :doh: And he asked me if I wanna go get a cup of COFFEE....and I don't drink coffee...I hate coffee....so that's why I said "no thanks". :doh::doh::doh: :lol: :lol: But I didn't really mean, I wouldn't wanna go anywhere with him. :doh: :lol: Had he added "Well a bottle of soda then?"...it maybe would have worked out. :lol: Yeah, he probably didn't think he'd need to be THAT specific. :lol: But you know...I kind of took it he meant literally "a cup of coffee"...I didn't think he might be asking me out. :doh: :lol: Anyways, so of course later on it dawned on me what a stupid idiot I had been, so I kept hoping to see him again, so that I could ask him if he'd still wanna go have a cup of SOMETHING (coffee/tea/soda/:lol with me. Because I did like him and did wanna get to know him better. But I never saw him again. Neither his friend. And since I only knew his first name, and not his last name, I couldn't search for his e-mail addy on the uni e-mail and that way had no way of contacting him. So that was the end of it. But I've often thought about him and about the "what if's".

Awwwwwww Summer. :lol: That story is just so darn cute! :heart: hehe!
I was literally saying awwww the whole time whilst reading it. LOL!

 

[Sdeidjs]

I have a question. I don't know if anyone could ever answer it but why couldn't he be with someone he loved? What forces would keep them apart? Also Justus said that because of his identity it prevented him from becoming close enough to those he loved other than his children. Why? I am maybe unable to see that side of things because I'm not in his shoes. I don't understand why, if he wanted to, couldn't Michael Jackson go visit or be with someone he wanted to. Is it because of the media or something else? Wouldn't there be ways for him to spend time in person with someone he wanted to?

I'm sure I've asked this question before in here now that I've written it down again but I still wonder.

I also think it is silly to think that a woman with money won't be a golddigger any more than one who has little money. Some people who have lots of money only want more. They have that greed that makes them never satisfied. On the other side,

there are plenty of people who aren't rich because they never placed that importance on monetary things. They find richness in things like relationships and family and creativity or something other than material things.

These people are more likely to be victim of golddiggers than to be one themselves.

Same can be said for fame. Some people who are famous themselves might want to use someone more famous for their own gain. My point is,

not everyone wants fame, and not everyone is after money,

so just because someone has fame or money doesn't mean they won't want more than they already have,

also just because someone doesn't have it, doesn't mean they will be after it

(in fact I would think the opposite might be true). Just wanted to add those thoughts because it never made sense to me when I read that he thought he could only be with someone who was rich and famous because then they automatically won't be after his fame or money, or someone who knew nothing about him.

unk:Excellent post A...I Wholeheartedly Agree

Many Many moons ago...By personal experience I lived a very comfortable life....had money, nice cars, nice home in a posh neighborhood, cloths, jewlery, hobbed knobbed with doctors, lawyers, theirs wives, medical society, and very involved in community organizations that focused on children and the handicapped...etc.... etc... etc...

For many, they thrive on materialistic possessions/status...many were ugly, self absorbed, stuck up, ignorant, judgemental people that I really didn't want to be around...

Life is so very precious and way too short...I was just existing not LIVING my life to the fullest potential...so one day...I packed my bags, had $70.00 in my pocket and my baby boy and I walked away...

Although my journey has not been without bumps in the road...I am happy to report...It was and still is to this day the best decision I ever made in my life..!

Moral of this true to life story...Money and or things cannot and will not ever give you true love, happiness, loyalty, best friendship (s), or trustworthyness..!

:angel:Our Children Are The Future...Heal The World...WE Are The Wolrd...Education IS The Key~~~

 

[summer]

Awwwwwww Summer. :lol: That story is just so darn cute! :heart: hehe!
I was literally saying awwww the whole time whilst reading it. LOL!

Thanks. :lol: I just wish it was a cute story with a HAPPY ending...instead of a story fit for a COMEDY show. :doh: :lol: :lol: :lol: I'm a hopeless case when it comes to guys, I guess. :lol: A guy would probably need to hold a banner in front of me that spells out EXACTLY what he means, for me to get it. :scratch::doh: :lol: :lol: