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Has Michael Reached His Place In History?

smoothcriminal12

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I was listening to Michael's song HIStory, and there was a part that said "He said one day he'll recieve, his place in world history". I thought, if Michael was talking about himself in this song, has he recieved his place in world history? I mean, he has had Off The Wall, Thriller and Bad, but it pretty much died after that. Has Michael reached his place in world history? Will he be written about in the history books? If he is written in them, is he "The Man Who Made Thriller" or "The Man Who Made A Difference To Music"? Your thoughts?
 
trust me....there'll never be a more discussed musician in the next 100 years... for better or for worse
 
I'd include Dangerous and HIStory too. I liked BODF and Invincible also, but I assume we're looking at the bigger mainstream stuff. The general public seems to not remember/care about those releases.

But on topic...

Well, he's one of the three biggest acts of all-time (with Elvis and The Beatles), and out of the three of them, I believe he's the most renowned worldwide.

His music is timeless in a way that The Beatles and Elvis aren't, and is the sort that most people can still enjoy today. He's more talented than the other two because he thrived in areas where The Beatles and Elvis struggled. Elvis was a great performer but didn't write songs, and MJ did both. The Beatles wrote great songs but weren't that special as performers, and MJ is/was fantastic at both.

Still, MJ probably gets the least amount of respect out of them from "music buffs" for a number of reasons.

I believe that a good portion of the people who rib on him now realize in the back of their heads his merit, unless they're stupid kids who just don't know. He is known as a legend and icon today, the greatest pop star ever, but sadly some people's ignorance towards his private life diminished the level of praise that it COULD have been right now. And that's not to say that his legend at this point and time isn't cemented as greatness. Everyone would get awe-struck in his presence, and not just in the "because he's some celebrity" way, either. But because he's Michael Jackson.

Annoyingly, the respect level will inevitably get much, much, MUCH higher in hopefully the distant future when he's no longer with us. That's the way people are. A bunch of trendy douches obsessed with image. Which is why celebrities who for a FACT have engaged in inappropriate relationships with underage children don't get made fun of like Michael Jackson, who was merely accused. And acquitted for a lack of any real proof whatsoever.

I sort of think about that when I listen to the line from "Give In To Me" in a different context. "You and your friends were laughing at me in town... you won't be laughin' girl when I'm not around..."

And that's how it's gonna be.
 
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He died after that?

Oh, wow I didn't know that.

All this time I was thinking that Michael was still alive, and was still making music and selling records all through out the 90's (and 2000's). Where have I been?

I guess it was someone that looked like him?
 
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LovelyOne said:
He died after that?

Oh, wow I didn't know that.

All this time I was thinking that Michael was still alive, and was still making music and selling records all through out the 90's (and 200's). Where have I been?

I guess it was someone that looked like him?
Click to expand...


I'm replying to this sarcastic post by saying that from the 90's and then on, people thought MJ's music was not magic without Quincy Jones.
 
I think we have yet to see his real place in history :) just my gut feeling....


I'll edit a quote in here later on too.

EDIT: This was from the MJ quotes thread posted by wannabestartingsomething

"I really believe that God chooses people to do certain things, the way Michelangelo or Leonardo da Vinci or Mozart or Muhammad Ali or Martin Luther King is chosen. And that is their mission to do that thing. And I think that I haven't scratched the surface yet of what my real purpose is for being here." Michael Jackson 1992 (I think)
 
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smoothcriminal12 said:
I'm replying to this sarcastic post by saying that from the 90's and then on, people thought MJ's music was not magic without Quincy Jones.
Click to expand...

Who are these "people"?

Or, are you speaking for yourself?

And you're right...Michael is nothing without Quincy. He can't put together an album otherwise.
 
LovelyOne said:
Who are these "people"?

Or, are you speaking for yourself?

And you're right...Michael is nothing without Quincy. He can't put together an album otherwise.
Click to expand...

I'm very offended that you said I was speaking for myself. I never said Michael's is nothing without Quincy. I said that's what people say.

And do you want me to give you a full list of these "people"? :smilerolleyes: I just started a topic.......
 
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smoothcriminal12 said:
I'm very offended that you said I was speaking for myself. I never said Michael's is nothing without Quincy. I said that's what people say.

And do you want me to give you a full list of these "people"? :smilerolleyes: I just started a topic.......
Click to expand...

Go head and list the people then! The full list of everyone on the entire planet who has said this.
 
smoothcriminal12 said:
I'm replying to this sarcastic post by saying that from the 90's and then on, people thought MJ's music was not magic without Quincy Jones.
Click to expand...

NO YOU thought that - NOt Peoples
YOu can only speak for yourself
do not speak for ALL peoples please

a few have said that - but dangerous and
History were both amazing albums
and magical tours

many believe Michael created beautiful music
and magic throught the 90's and with invincible
and his other released albums in 2000's
 
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qbee said:
NO YOU thought that - NOt Peoples
YOu can only speak for yourself
do not speak for ALL peoples please

many believe Michael created beautiful music
and magic throught the 90's and with invincible
and his other released albums in 2000's
Click to expand...

Well the many that believe that are right. :)

I'm just saying, most of the people I've met think Michael crashed without Quincy.
 
LovelyOne said:
Who are these "people"?

Or, are you speaking for yourself?

And you're right...Michael is nothing without Quincy. He can't put together an album otherwise.
Click to expand...

woah! are you serious? :eek: how can you even say he can't put together an album without Q? Dangerous is my favorite out of all his albums! It is a masterpiece. History and Invincible were also wonderful albums. Thriller might be the best selling out of his albums, but it's almost entirely because of Michael's talent that it is. That's just my opinion.
 
smoothcriminal12 said:
Well the many that believe that are right. :)

I'm just saying, most of the people I've met think Michael crashed without Quincy.
Click to expand...

Oh, so you're saying they're right then?

WritergirlAD said:
woah! are you serious? :eek: how can you even say he can't put together an album without Q? Dangerous is my favorite out of all his albums! It is a masterpiece. History and Invincible were also wonderful albums. Thriller might be the best selling out of his albums, but it's almost entirely because of Michael's talent that it is. That's just my opinion.
Click to expand...

Well, I was being sarcastic. If you couldn't tell...

:)
 
Grand Master S said:
I'd include Dangerous and HIStory too. I liked BODF and Invincible also, but I assume we're looking at the bigger mainstream stuff. The general public seems to not remember/care about those releases.

But on topic...

Well, he's one of the three biggest acts of all-time (with Elvis and The Beatles), and out of the three of them, I believe he's the most renowned worldwide.

His music is timeless in a way that The Beatles and Elvis aren't, and is the sort that most people can still enjoy today. He's more talented than the other two because he thrived in areas where The Beatles and Elvis struggled. Elvis was a great performer but didn't write songs, and MJ did both. The Beatles wrote great songs but weren't that special as performers, and MJ is/was fantastic at both.

Still, MJ probably gets the least amount of respect out of them from "music buffs" for a number of reasons.

I believe that a good portion of the people who rib on him now realize in the back of their heads his merit, unless they're stupid kids who just don't know. He is known as a legend and icon today, the greatest pop star ever, but sadly some people's ignorance towards his private life diminished the level of praise that it COULD have been right now. And that's not to say that his legend at this point and time isn't cemented as greatness. Everyone would get awe-struck in his presence, and not just in the "because he's some celebrity" way, either. But because he's Michael Jackson.

Annoyingly, the respect level will inevitably get much, much, MUCH higher in hopefully the distant future when he's no longer with us. That's the way people are. A bunch of trendy douches obsessed with image. Which is why celebrities who for a FACT have engaged in inappropriate relationships with underage children don't get made fun of like Michael Jackson, who was merely accused. And acquitted for a lack of any real proof whatsoever.

I sort of think about that when I listen to the line from "Give In To Me" in a different context. "You and your friends were laughing at me in town... you won't be laughin' girl when I'm not around..."

And that's how it's gonna be.
Click to expand...

Very true. Michael's cemented his place. If he hasn't, then no one has. People dog him and belittle him and make fun of him, but they know deep down, inside, that there's never going to be anyone on Michael's level again or anyone who is so special, just as a person, not even talking about talent, but just who he is as a person. Michael's different. He looks at things differently, and I think, when people get around him, they sense that, and they sense that he's really remarkable, in every way. He's really, genuinley and innately a good person, someone who sincerely cares about other people and life all around.People have been conditioned to think of Michael as strange or as a freak without ever having really listened to him or payed attention. When they do, they realize that he's a special person and they embrace him. It takes getting people to listen to and pay attention to him to make them realize what they have in him. But that's hard, people are lazy in that respect and would rather be told what to think then to discover what to think.

But people will regret how they treated Michael. He never did anything to hurt anyone, in fact, quite the opposite, he's only ever tried and has helped people by giving of himself in a detrimentally generous way. There aren't many people in this world willing to sacriafice a part of themselves, their time, especially when its in as great demand as his is, his hard earned money, or to actually put themselves in harms way or risk their own well being to help others, which is what Michael has done. And yet people, even some of his own fans, chastise him for it and blame him for other people taking advantage of his kindness.
 
MJ probably would have reached his place in history off of his J5 work alone. Then he had some hit singles on his own as a child, then he solidified himself as a solo artist with Off The Wall. Thriller put him into a new category, and Bad and Dangerous just added onto the legacy. I see History and Invincible more or less as evolutionary and not really revolutionary, but they add to his legacy none the less.

So what I'm saying is that MJ solidified a place in music, pop-culture and world history as early as 35+years ago, everything after that has just continued to add to it and make him a bigger and bigger star. His legacy is like a snowball rolling down a hill, but there is no end to the hill in sight.
 
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Also, about that little tidbit, Michael and Quincy did some remarkable stuff together, but Dangerous is my favorite album by far.

People can say whatever they want as far as his artistic abilities rising or lowering after Quincy and he stopped working together, but I hate when people point to album sales in their defense. There's no way anyone can recreate Thriller. The fact that Dangerous sold over 30 million (in fact, it has outsold Bad worldwide I believe) proves that he has not been on a downward trend at all. Plus, Bad was great on its own, but it also had the momentum of Thriller to help it. Dangerous didn't have that luxury and still sold just as well.

Invincible sold 10 million copies with only one music video, a concert, and hardly any promotion whatsoever.

I've said it before, but look at people like Rihanna, Justin Timberlake, etc. All great artists in their own right. But for those people to sell anywhere close to those numbers (these days, 10 million is seen as a massive success), they have to go on huge tours, promotions, do every award show under the sun, re-release their album 6 months to a year later as a deluxe version, and do tons of appearances on other people's albums. Prince had to give copies of his album away with concert tickets just to get sales of 2 million with "Musicology". People buy MJ albums because they like his music and they know who he is. That has not changed since he and Quincy stopped working together.
 
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In music history he has certainly achieved his place!
Someone who doubts it was for too long in the sun probably lol something like that.
 
You said it superstition. I know I'm not alone in thinking Michael's best work came after Quincy. Quincy helped Michael to reach his full potential, but he didn't make him and he isn't the sole reason Michael became what he did. His talent is and so is his personality. I think "History" is Michael's best work, honestly, and I think that because the song writing was amazing. Michael is more then "Off The Wall" and "Thriller", and I hope some day, people will realize that.
 
smoothcriminal12 said:
Well the many that believe that are right. :)

I'm just saying, most of the people I've met think Michael crashed without Quincy.
Click to expand...
Just because most of the people YOU meet talk crap, that doesn't mean that everybody is talking crap. I have yet to meet most people that talk crap about Michael. Most people I meet think he is a geious and that he is picked on by the media because of jealousy.
MJ is the about the most respected artist in the business today. I got that from Will.I.am, Akon, Ne.Yo. Kanye, Chris Brown, L:iz Taylor, Bandier of sony. The list goes on. Just because a few hateful people on websitesa say otherwise, that doesn't mean that it is.
I have not heard any popgroup sing songs about any other celeb. Justice made a massive hit with the song, D.A.N.C.E. The Mitchell Brothers wrote and sang;Michael Jackson
MJ made his place in history the moment he stepped on stage. He was popular all over the world nothing has changed.
I find that the main place where I hear negativity about MJ are on fanboards surprisingly enough.
And for the record, If you think people in history did not have dodgy private lives, them you'd better think again.
 
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Superstition said:
Also, about that little tidbit, Michael and Quincy did some remarkable stuff together, but Dangerous is my favorite album by far.

People can say whatever they want as far as his artistic abilities rising or lowering after Quincy and he stopped working together, but I hate when people point to album sales in their defense. There's no way anyone can recreate Thriller. sold over 30 million (in fact, it has outsold Bad worldwide I believe) proves that he has not been on a downward trend at all. Plus, Bad was great on its own, but it also had the momentum of Thriller to help it. Dangerous didn't have that luxury and still sold just as well.

Invincible sold 10 million copies with only one music video, a concert, and hardly any promotion whatsoever.

I've said it before, but look at people like Rihanna, Justin Timberlake, etc. All great artists in their own right. But for those people to sell anywhere close to those numbers (these days, 10 million is seen as a massive success), they have to go on huge tours, promotions, do every award show under the sun, re-release their album 6 months to a year later as a deluxe version, and do tons of appearances on other people's albums. Prince had to give copies of his album away with concert tickets just to get sales of 2 million with "Musicology". People buy MJ albums because they like his music and they know who he is. That has not changed since he and Quincy stopped working together.
Click to expand...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_(album)

bad sold more than dangerous
 
smoothcriminal12 said:
I'm very offended that you said I was speaking for myself. I never said Michael's is nothing without Quincy. I said that's what people say.

And do you want me to give you a full list of these "people"? :smilerolleyes: I just started a topic.......
Click to expand...

I understand why you're saying this, true is many ppl think the same, but i think they're not right.
Michael has reached his place in history with Jackson5 already, and then with Quincy he did something unforgettable, that nobody can denie. Thriller is my fav album, but Dangerous is a masterpiece. And his work after Quincy IS great and i just cant get enough of it. Michael didnt "died" after Quincy, actually i think he is getting better, i mean just listen to Ghost, BOTDF, History, Earth Song, Give In To Me, They Dont Care About Us, Dangerous.. and you'll get it!!!!!! These songs are remarkable, i mean Dangerous and Give In To Me... maybe my fav songs... And im sure im not the only one with that opinion, so dont get upset when you hear ppl talking crap about him and his work after Quincy, thats so wrong!
Michael is unforgettable, unrepeatable, his music is timeless and beautiful (and i mean music he made for life!), so thanks to this, and also his dance and popularity, his personality, and thanks to what he is, and he IS the one and only King, he is gonna be remembered as one of the greatest musicians ever, he deserve it, and thats how its gonna be...!
 
yeah his career has peaked and He hit his prime but the Man is timeless and will always be discussed hundreds of years from now easily. he will have his de-trators but alot of that is on the personal tip because albums like Off the wall and Thriller will always be talked about and the whole Jackson 5 five run. you can't talk about Pop Music and avoid Michael Jackson and as long as the industry runs out a Usher, Timberlake,Chris Brown and NeYo then MJ will always be around.

influence and impact keeps the tradition going and the albums and performances speak for themselves.
 
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