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Invincible appreciation thread

MattyJam said:
MJJC wouldn't be MJJC without the bi-monthly Invincible appreciation thread, where the OP says in all seriousness that nobody ever discusses this album.
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And I'm also very aware of the irony that I smirked at the thread being created yet have posted the most in it!
 
I love Invincible!:D
My fave songs on the album are 2000 Watts, Butterflies, Threatened, Break Of Dawn, Heartbreaker, You Rock My World, You are My Life, and Unbreakable.
Overall it's in the top three of my most listened to out of all of MJ's albums.:yes:
 
Well, I REALLY love You Rock My World, Butterflies and Break of Dawn. I like Cry and Whatever Happens pretty well too. That's my only comment.
 
MattyJam said:
MJJC wouldn't be MJJC without the bi-monthly Invincible appreciation thread, where the OP says in all seriousness that nobody ever discusses this album.
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I think we need an Invincible appreciation thread appreciation thread.
 
Tony R said:
I know, I was just exaggerating the point to give myself some minor enjoyment.

You're right, it could have been much better with a few tweaks but you have to review it as it is not what it could have been.

Like I've said many times, it's only poor when compared to OTW -> HIStory, in terms of music made in 2000-2005 it's one of the best albums made.
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Yep, for its era it was far superior. I wonder how Invincible would have been received by the masses if it was another artists debut? I clearly remember at the time people telling me Invincible was sh*t knowing full well they'd never even listened to it. Yes, I was in school and it's what kids do but it says a lot about peoples expectations of it and the foregone conclusion it was crap before even giving it a chance. It isn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination but Michael was swimming against a huge tide in those days.
 
Most of the album is great. You are my life and Privacy should have stayed in the vault forever. Threatened and Speechless are the best tracks IMO.
 
Whatever about the music.... but the promotion... THE PROMOTION!!!!! THERE WAS NONE!!!!!!!!!

and so forth....
 
MattyJam said:
Yeah, but to be honest, MJ was swimming against a huge tide with HIStory also. He was becoming the butt of a lot of peoples jokes before 93, and after 93 the general mood towards him turned into one of scepticism and at times outright hostility from music critics, journalists and non-fans alike.

I think Invincible coming along at a time when so many new, younger, fresher faced popstars were emerging didn't do MJ any favours. But ultimately, had MJ and Sony been on the same page professionally and creatively, I have no doubt the album could've been a much bigger success than it was.

Regardless of what you think of Invincible compared to MJs past works, it is an undisputed fact that its lukewarm reception and underwhelming chart run was mostly down to the albums lack of promotion and nothing to do with the quality of the material.
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innuendo141 said:
Whatever about the music.... but the promotion... THE PROMOTION!!!!! THERE WAS NONE!!!!!!!!!

and so forth....
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Yeah but this was MJ. Did it really need lots of promotion? If the lead singles had been strong enough, it may have been enough.

Starting off with YRMW (which I really like) with a poor SC imitation video and a poor second single killed it. By 2000 it wasn't like the 80s or 90s anymore if the lead single wasn't a killer, people didn't give it a chance. Madonna does the same wrong thing now. You can't start off with a The Girl Is Mine, knowing you have a Billie Jean or Beat It in your back pocket. The audience are too fickle and impatient.

Especially for MJ who needed to get an instant win and shock people. This is why Whatever Happens should have been lead. So unexpected, different and cool. With a great, sepia toned video of MJ in a Spanish style club, on stage (sort of a mix of GITM and Tomberlake's Senorita videos).

But I won't accept it was promotion only, it still wasn't up to Michael's standard, if it was we wouldn't still be arguing about it 16 years later.

Especially painful now we hear what songs could have been on it.
 
God no, I was being sarcastic. Invincible sold as much as it sold. Full stop. I hate the promotion excuse.

Invincible had the words Michael Jackson on the cover. What better publicity can you get? Sub par songs was the issue.

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Invincible could have outsold Thriller, and I'd still say it was Michael's weakest album.
 
Random AF but since this IS an Invincible thread I really would love to see Threatened used in a horror movie or something.
It's just such a great song, and IMO would be perfect in a horror film.:yes:
 
Invincible should have been a little shorter. - Some of the songs have a wayy too long outro. - Especially the first songs on the album, and it kills the flow.

Privacy, 2000 Watts and Heartbreaker should have been released as b-sides to some of the singles that should have been released from the album.

AND - insted of Cry it should have been - We've Had Enough. - Cry could then have been released as a stand alone single to some charity event.

1. Unbreakable
2. You Rock My Word (without the intro!)
3. Break of Dawn
4. Speechless
5. Invincible
6. Butterflies
7. Whatever Happens
8. The Lost Children
9. You Are My Life
10. Don't Walk Away
11. Heaven Can Wait
12. Threatened
13. We've Had Enough

1. single - Whatever Happens - b-side Heartbreaker
2. single - Threatened - b-side Privacy
3. single - Speechless - the single would also include Break of Dawn
4. single - You Rock My World - with a version with the intro and b-side 2000 Watts
5. single - We've Had Enough - and The Lost Children

WH, Threatened and You Rock My World should have killer videos!! - I like YRMW video, but we should see MJ's face more. It's strange how he hides his face??

This Could have been a killer album - and a great release - and we would still get all the Invincible songs thru b-sides etc. - the album would be 13 songs and end with the epic We've Had Enough!
 
We've Had Enough really should have been on the album.
 
analogue said:
We've Had Enough really should have been on the album.
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Definitely. I actually think the Estate should re-release it, it's a really powerful song that's had almost none of the attention it deserves.

Could always become a charity single or something.
 
HIStoric said:
Definitely. I actually think the Estate should re-release it, it's a really powerful song that's had almost none of the attention it deserves.

Could always become a charity single or something.
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I think so too. And they should re-release it as it is. I don't want some current producer coming in, and ''updating'' it. The song is perfect as it is
 
analogue said:
I think so too. And they should re-release it as it is. I don't want some current producer coming in, and ''updating'' it. The song is perfect as it is
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As someone who likes most of the contemporary remixes on Xscape: I agree.
 
MattyJam said:
You lot do my head in!! It is possible to be underwhelmed/disappointed by the album and also acknowledge the blatantly obvious fact that the promotion was a complete hackjob.

There are many songs on Invincible with hit potential, songs like Whatever Happens, Butterflies and Unbreakable, but they weren't given the chance to receive airplay or be heard by anyone outside of MJ's hardcore fanbase.
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He didnt so much as sing a word of any of the songs during any of the public performances he did! (other than MSG...) He didnt even want to promote it himself!

If he had sent massive statue versions of the Invincible face up the Thames it might have sold a few more but the project would have been seen as an even bigger failure!
 
HIStoric said:
Definitely. I actually think the Estate should re-release it, it's a really powerful song that's had almost none of the attention it deserves.

Could always become a charity single or something.
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analogue said:
I think so too. And they should re-release it as it is. I don't want some current producer coming in, and ''updating'' it. The song is perfect as it is
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HIStoric said:
As someone who likes most of the contemporary remixes on Xscape: I agree.
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Agree with all !! Next new album should have We've Had Enough on it.
 
The album should've been shorter (as others have already stated). Also, I'm not a big fan of the title track, I feel like it should've been left off and the album just been named "Unbreakable" instead. But here's my personal preferred track order in some alternate universe:

1) Unbreakable (feat Biggie)
2) Heartbreaker (no Fats!)
3) Invincible (no Fats!)
4) Break Of Dawn
5) Heaven Can Wait
6) You Rock My World (no intro ugh!)
7) Butterflies
8) Speechless
9) 2000 Watts
10) We've Had Enough
11) Threatened

That would've been a MUCH more cohesive album, not to mention much easier to listen all the way through in one sitting. Mike went a little off the deep end in regards to track lengths and just the amount of filler in general.

You Are My Life, Don't Walk Away, Cry & The Lost Children (worst MJ song ever imo) are waaaay too sappy to be on the same album as Unbreakable and Threatened and 2000 Watts. Honestly, these are some of my least fav MJ songs ever made. Also, I don't mind Privacy that much, but I felt like it didn't say anything new that Mike hadn't already stated before on previous albums.
 
CrazyVegasMJ said:
The album should've been shorter (as others have already stated). Also, I'm not a big fan of the title track, I feel like it should've been left off and the album just been named "Unbreakable" instead. But here's my personal preferred track order in some alternate universe:

1) Unbreakable (feat Biggie)
2) Heartbreaker (no Fats!)
3) Invincible (no Fats!)
4) Break Of Dawn
5) Heaven Can Wait
6) You Rock My World (no intro ugh!)
7) Butterflies
8) Speechless
9) 2000 Watts
10) We've Had Enough
11) Threatened

That would've been a MUCH more cohesive album, not to mention much easier to listen all the way through in one sitting. Mike went a little off the deep end in regards to track lengths and just the amount of filler in general.

You Are My Life, Don't Walk Away, Cry & The Lost Children (worst MJ song ever imo) are waaaay too sappy to be on the same album as Unbreakable and Threatened and 2000 Watts. Honestly, these are some of my least fav MJ songs ever made. Also, I don't mind Privacy that much, but I felt like it didn't say anything new that Mike hadn't already stated before on previous albums.
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Pretty much this.

Although I do like YAML
 
MattyJam said:
MJJC wouldn't be MJJC without the bi-monthly Invincible appreciation thread, where the OP says in all seriousness that nobody ever discusses this album.
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That's not what OP said here though, they said "invincible rarely gets appreciated". And they are right. Every time someone starts an Invincible appreciation thread, people talk about the things they don't like about the album, even though it's clearly called "APPRECIATION thread" :doh:
 
I think what helps me appreciate 'Invincible' more than I did in the past is looking at it from the proper perspective. It seems to me, based on the song selections and content, that Michael wasn't really trying to recreate the same experience he had with Dangerous or HIStory, but rather it seemed that he was just pouring his heart into the songs and lyrical content that mattered to him at the time. I think songs like 'You are My Life' and 'The Lost Children' are proof of that. It doesn't seem like he was aiming to achieve commercial success with it as he had with previous albums (although no doubt he would've liked that). It seems that he was genuinely singing about the things that he cared about, almost like an epitaph to his solo discography. I almost get the sense that he felt free, with no restrictions, and was just jam-packing the album chock full of songs that he enjoyed singing, hence the 16-track length. I just think that Michael's world view was different at this point in his life and the music reflects it.
 
Michaels Lover said:
That's not what OP said here though, they said "invincible rarely gets appreciated". And they are right. Every time someone starts an Invincible appreciation thread, people talk about the things they don't like about the album, even though it's clearly called "APPRECIATION thread" :doh:
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There aren't enough people on here posting who fully enjoy the album to only have an Appreciation thread.

Anyway a world (or indeed thread where everyone agrees is boring.

Post 1: I love Invincible
Post 2: So do I
Post 3: I love the songs
Post 4: Me too
Post 5: Do you like the intro to YRMW?
Post 6: Yes,I love everything he does
Post 7: What do you think of the number of tracks?
Post 8: Just right
Post 9: Is Privacy as good as Billie Jean
Post 10: Yes, everything he did was as good as Billie Jean

...well, you get the idea with that....
 
MoeJack said:
I think what helps me appreciate 'Invincible' more than I did in the past is looking at it from the proper perspective. It seems to me, based on the song selections and content, that Michael wasn't really trying to recreate the same experience he had with Dangerous or HIStory, but rather it seemed that he was just pouring his heart into the songs and lyrical content that mattered to him at the time. I think songs like 'You are My Life' and 'The Lost Children' are proof of that. It doesn't seem like he was aiming to achieve commercial success with it as he had with previous albums (although no doubt he would've liked that). It seems that he was genuinely singing about the things that he cared about, almost like an epitaph to his solo discography. I almost get the sense that he felt free, with no restrictions, and was just jam-packing the album chock full of songs that he enjoyed singing, hence the 16-track length. I just think that Michael's world view was different at this point in his life and the music reflects it.
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It is interesting, but unfortunately, it's only really accurate for Speechless, YAML & TLC. Ironically the rest of the album is almost as un-MJ as it can get. And to be extreme about it, he almost feels like a guest vocalist on some tracks. That's why, even though TLC & YAML aren't amongst his best tracks (even though I have a soft spot for them) at least they seem 100% MJ.
 
MattyJam said:
The other half is mostly love/heartbreak/relationship songs (which half of Dangerous consists of), so if you find that unbelieveable on Invincible, then likewise you should on songs like She Drives Me Wild, Remember The Time, Can't Let Her Get Away, Give Into Me and Dangerous also. Or is this yet another example of picking holes in Invincible for doing something MJ has done his entire solo career?
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No, it's because he wrote the ****ers,and the come across as believable. Or take a very MJ song that he didn't write - MITM, he sings it with so much passion that he (to use a much overused phrase) made it his own. I don't get that with Break Of Dawn or Heaven Can Wait or 2000 Watts or Don't Walk Away or Heartbreaker.

Just an opinion dude*!!

(* not sure I can get away with saying dude)
 
Tony R said:
There aren't enough people on here posting who fully enjoy the album to only have an Appreciation thread.

Anyway a world (or indeed thread where everyone agrees is boring.

Post 1: I love Invincible
Post 2: So do I
Post 3: I love the songs
Post 4: Me too
Post 5: Do you like the intro to YRMW?
Post 6: Yes,I love everything he does
Post 7: What do you think of the number of tracks?
Post 8: Just right
Post 9: Is Privacy as good as Billie Jean
Post 10: Yes, everything he did was as good as Billie Jean

...well, you get the idea with that....
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That's not my idea of an appreciation thread at all. People can go in depth about what they appreciate, or whatever. Anyway, I'm not here to say what people should or shouldn't write, I was just saying that's how it is, nothing else
 
I think Invincible has many true MJ songs - in terms of feelings, passion etc.

The Lost Children, You Are My Life, Butterflies, Cry and Speechless comes to mind instantly. YRMW, WH and Threatned too actually.

2000 Watts is off. - I do not like Privacy, but to MJ it was properbly just as an important song as Leave Me Alone and Tabloid Junkie.. Unbreakable is the same I guess - MJ's way to say "Standing though You're Kicking Me!"

Invincible - I don't really feel that song. - Could have been anyone singing it really.
 
Out of curiosity, it seems that most fans agree that 2000 Watts is the weirdest and most un-MJ song he ever released (although it certainly can be appreciated). Has anyone ever asked MJ or his collaborators about this track? If not, they most certainly should lol :D! My best guess is that since the album was due to be released in the year 2000 originally, maybe it was meant to be some kind of Y2K anthem or something.
 
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