Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins & Bush /Update Controversy surrounding autographs

[xthunderx2]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Yes, the Estate has a lot of these costumes too. They were displayed at the O2 Exhibition in London and at the Vegas Fanfest.

Here are some pictures I collected in London and the ones I took myself in Vegas, where you can see some of the costumes the Estate has in their posession:

http://s53.beta.photobucket.com/use...ichael Jackson Exhibition-London Feb13th 2010

http://s53.beta.photobucket.com/use...hael Jackson Exhibition-Vegas FanFest Dec2011

I just want to say THANK YOU so much for these links. As much as Ivy has told me OVER and OVER that the Estate HAS these costumes and more than one was made for them...I am the type of person that has always lived by the motto "don't tell me show me"..I now have seen with my OWN eyes the they DO in fact have these clothes. I can now breath a sigh of relief . I am sure Ivy has posted links like this in the past..maybe I just wasn't paying attention or there is just always SO MUCH going on from MJ land that I tend to "tune out" sometimes...either way..Thank you again.

** this was posted from the other forum regarding this standee

Reply by Sandy Stadler 4 hours agoOkay I just spoke to Felix at Bravado.
I was probably not the best person to do that because I'm easily steam rolled on the phone because I get nervous...but didn't sound like anyone else was focusing on this.

He was very aware of it and has said he has gotten about 50 emails from 50 different people and they are looking into it, WORKING CLOSELY WITH THE ESTATE.
When I mentioned about the concern of the fan community regarding the estates involvement and John Btanca wrote foreword to Bush's book, etc... he said the estate is aware of what is going on and will fully support truth whatever that may be.
He seemed slightly rushed and annoyed at having to discuss this with some random person that called him.

He would not commit to a date of when the standee was made but did agree it was 2009.

from another poster

Reply by Justin 1 hour ago .. and it was made after Michael had died. Michelle and i have that in writing from Felix. he would not say if there was a prototype. but since he's dealing with all this through the proper channels and will not disclose anymore with me. i'm guessing there wasn't one presented to Michael!





http://live.autographmagazine.com/f...ale?id=3524372:Topic:308435&page=110#comments

Michael Bush better hope that this signature is real..because if its not..there is going to be alot of trouble for him. MJ fans wont let him get away with this.

They were suppose to be released and of course it was after June 25. MJ had just viewed and approved the prototypes in March 2009. The deal was already set in place and John Branca didnt finalize it untill after MJs death. But we know Michael did review the Bravado Merchandise prototypes before his death and very well could of took some of the items with him. We seen in the auction that he did save a lot of MJ merhandise. I believe there is a article or statement from Branca stating he finalised merchadising deals Michael was working on as well as the court statement Ivy showed where MJ did meet with bravado in March to view and approve the merchandise. We shouldn't always assume the worst. hopefully we will get further clarification

Thank You ...I hope you are right and everything is legal and legit. There is just never a dull moment when it comes to anything MJ...it really is quite exhausting trying to keep up with everything all the time.

 

[morinen]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Thanks, bluesky. I'm glad they took it seriously, and I'm glad the estate's involved. I trust them. Let's wait and see how it turns out.

 

[Nadia1981]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

I just want to say THANK YOU so much for these links. As much as Ivy has told me OVER and OVER that the Estate HAS these costumes and more than one was made for them...I am the type of person that has always lived by the motto "don't tell me show me"..I now have seen with my OWN eyes the they DO in fact have these clothes. I can now breath a sigh of relief . I am sure Ivy has posted links like this in the past..maybe I just wasn't paying attention or there is just always SO MUCH going on from MJ land that I tend to "tune out" sometimes...either way..Thank you again.

You are very welcome!

 

[ivy]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

as for the standee as I said we know that the mass production and sale to the public has started in October 2009. However we have no information about prototypes. As you can see Bravado isn't committing to a date and isn't telling if there was a prototype or not. This is inconclusive until Bravado comes out and says "no we did not do an early prototype".

 

[Rhilo]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

^But what are the chances of Michael sharing a prototype with MB? He was totally occupied with TII and rehearsals, would he really have the time to gift a prototype standee to MB? :/ Just seems so random and incorrect.

 

[qbee]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

They were working together and seen each other often though out the day at Staples center so its possible. Im thinking the meeting may have even been at offices in staple center. Becuase they brought and presented the merchandise to MJ. That would be the most logical place. So if there was a protoype it would have been right there.

I just dont like to accuse anyone till we have all the facts. All we can do is speculate and we have been proven wrong before. I just hope we can be patient and see if any further info comes out of this. MLB was a very loyal dedicated friend and employee for many many yrs. He served Michael well. His reputation and future is at stake here. I just dont want to believe the worst. I like to look for the good and give the benefit of doubt. But I do understand why everyone is questioning.

Bravado created over 300 designs of Michael Jackson related merchandise.

Tom Bennett of Bravado presented all of those Jackson merchandise designs to Mr. Jackson personally in Los Angeles, California. At a meeting attended by Mr. Bennett as well as Mr. Jackson in early June 2009.

Mr. Jackson personally approved approximately 295 of the Jackson merchandise designs presented to him

 

[mjchris]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

one horrible news after another horrible news. first a lot mj costumes are for auction. and then gaga is buying them. :doh:
why not giving them to the idiot bieber?
it would be better if an real big true mj fan would get the items.
i still dont uderstand why bush is selling them. i have no words.

why the hell they dont create a museum on neverland and put all mj items in there? there is so much that can be stored there. the money is there, the house, the building, the history. there is so much that they can do with neverland. the mass of people who will visiting them are there. they would make millions with this.
thats so simple. i dont understand it. :mello:

 

[qbee]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Chris I certainly understand you being worried over the fate of Michaels beautiful Costumes. But regardless of how some may feel about lady gaga I think they found a good home and at least we know where they are. Unlike the other costumes sold.

Bush said he is selling them because he can not afford to keep them store them and keep them restored. The material will become weak and rot if not properly cared for. Plus when Frank and Dennis died . it made him look at what would happen if he died before he could write his book for Michael and make sure the costumes Will be out in the world for all to see. He thinks they will be cared for better if high end collectors or museums bought them. Plus he is out of employment now and probably wants to insure some kind of future for himself. He cant afford to just give them away. We don't know all his reasons for his decision.

The higher the value the more it will insure they will be taken care of. People have a lot invested in them. Michael's costumes are more than just sentimental items - They are historical museum pieces and need professionals to archive them keep them restored and display them. Lady Gaga can insure that. I'm still not a fan. Her art and music doesn't appeal to me at all. but I know she is a fan of Michael's and has the resources to take excellent care of them. Until they can be placed in a museum. She paid in the millions for them.

She promised the fans she will take excellent care of them to honor Michael his bravery and his fans.
I believe she will.

Neverland can not be used for a museum .. or open for the public. It is not easy access for one thing and the zoning laws wont allow it. All that property surrounding Neverland and property owners are protected from such intrusions. Its a very peaceful place. Maybe in the future that may change but I don't see that happening any time soon.

 

[paisleyCUTtop]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

I am SO happy that Gaga has them. As a fellow fan I am confident that she has the means and the right intentions in archiving these pieces. I am grateful.

 

[ivy]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

why the hell they dont create a museum on neverland and put all mj items in there? there is so much that can be stored there. the money is there, the house, the building, the history. there is so much that they can do with neverland. the mass of people who will visiting them are there. they would make millions with this.
thats so simple. i dont understand it. :mello:

Neverland can not be used for a museum .. or open for the public. It is not easy acces for one thing and the zoning laws wont allow it. All that property surounding Neverland and property owners are protected from such intrusions. Its a very peacful place. Maybe in the future that may change but I dont see that happening any time soon.

qbee is right, Neverland is not simple to turn to a museum and open to people. It's a personal property, it's not zoned for public. To change zoning every neighbor in the area has to agree - which they don't. Neverland is also over 30 min away from the smallest town and 2 hours away from the major city and only has one lane. So it would require them to build 2-3 lane roads to handle the traffic as well as build hotels, restaurants and infrastructure to handle that many people.

So it's really really hard to turn Neverland into a museum.

 

[barbee0715]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

^But what are the chances of Michael sharing a prototype with MB? He was totally occupied with TII and rehearsals, would he really have the time to gift a prototype standee to MB? :/ Just seems so random and incorrect.

I feel sure that Michael did have prototypes while he was in rehearsal-I've seen the kids wearing t-shirts, etc. that look straight from the 02 merchandise.

 

[Bubs]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Bush said he is selling them becuase he can not afford to keep them store them and keep them restored. The material will become weak and rot if not properly cared for. Plus when Frank and Dennis died . it made him look at what would happen if he died before he coud write his book for Michael and make sure the costumes wil be out in the world for all to see. He thinks they will be cared for better if high end collectors or museums bought them. Plus he is out of employment now and probably wants to insure some kind of future for himself. He cant afford to just give them away. We dont know all his reasons for his decision.

Nice post Qbee and I agree with it.
It makes sense that he might have thought of what is going to happen to costumes when he leaves this earth, who is his next of kin and what they might do with his collection. Selling them to someone who can afford to look after the costumes best possible way is the best solution.
If someone thinks that he should have give all of them to PPB and the estate, kids already owns whatever the estate has.

I know there would be someone calling MB being greedy etc, but then again, what about fans that are selling their collections of MJ stuff? They intend to make money too but it is acceptable because they are fans, but as MB worked 25 with MJ, he is not allowed to do the same and look into his future. I just hope fans goes easy on MB, we don't know everything and who knows what future brings in.

 

[liznieves]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Hi! Any update on the standup?

 

[AngieJ]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

I am SO happy that Gaga has them. As a fellow fan I am confident that she has the means and the right intentions in archiving these pieces. I am grateful.

This is how I feel. I don't even follow Gaga that much, and even i'm aware of the fact she has mad love for MJ. I have faith that she'll do right by these pieces.

 

[marebear]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

I hear that Lady Gaga is kind to her fans and treats them well. She mentioned us fans in her tweet so to me it shows she knows our concerns. I think she will take good care of them. She didn't just buy a few pieces she bought a majority of it. As an artist she knows the meaning of the clothes. I was worried at first but her message made me feel better. If she does take good care of them I will appreciate and respect her for that.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

I hear that Lady Gaga is kind to her fans and treats them well. She mentioned us fans in her tweet so to me it shows she knows our concerns. I think she will take good care of them. She didn't just buy a few pieces she bought a majority of it. As an artist she knows the meaning of the clothes. I was worried at first but her message made me feel better. If she does take good care of them I will appreciate and respect her for that.

The bolded....This is how I see it too....Not only as an artist, but someone who pays very close attention to fashion and what a role it plays in her music, performances and videos....Plus, as you said, she cares for her fans, she understands that special type of bond between fans and the artist, so I believe she can empathize with MJ fans as well...

So yes, I fully support her buying these clothes...

 

[myosotis]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

I see that Philip Trreacy has messaged (on Bush's FB page) that he won the signed History Tour helmet, Lot 976

I won the bid on this extraordinary helmet belonging to Michael Jackson at Juliens auctions of Michael Jackson's clothes by Dennis Tompkins and Michael Lee Bush on Sunday night. I love it and I was so lucky to see Michael Jackson opening his show in Wembley stadium wearing this mask emerging from a rocket!

 

[Billie Jean 78]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

I wonder why the Estate didn't opt to buy the pieces, at least the really significant ones. Surely they could afford it and it would be such a good investment!

 

[lidwinee]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Felix from Bravado confirmed in an email the standee was fabricated after MJ passed away

http://mjdatabank.com/mjjnews/wordpress/2012/12/05/michael-lee-bush-juliens-auction-la-controverse/

 

[ivy]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Yes mass production was in October 09, we already know it. Did he answer the questions about any possible prototypes? There are 4 detailed questions sent after that generic answer. I'm curious if he answered those specific questions or not.

 

[lidwinee]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

not yet apparently ...

 

[ItsALLforLOVE]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Yes mass production was in October 09, we already know it. Did he answer the questions about any possible prototypes? There are 4 detailed questions sent after that generic answer. I'm curious if he answered those specific questions or not.

Those were the questions he was responding to, NOT asked afterwards. I think his response to the questions is CLEAR.

That standee PICTURED (pictures being the ones in the auction) was manufactured AFTER Mr. Jackson passed away.

 

[Richard Lecocq]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Prototype with Triumph logo ?
Impossible, Triumph was re-activated in August 2009.
and also, keep in mind that MJ did not approve any of the TII items. He hardly wanted to go to rehearsals, so merch was clearly not his priority back then.
Bravado/AEG issued all their classic gear of products like the stupid bar/glassware etc...
the last items MJ validated are the ones from MJLicensing in 2008.

 

[qbee]

Prototype with Triumph logo ?
Impossible, Triumph was re-activated in August 2009.
and also, keep in mind that MJ did not approve any of the TII items. He hardly wanted to go to rehearsals, so merch was clearly not his priority back then.
Bravado/AEG issued all their classic gear of products like the stupid bar/glassware etc...
the last items MJ validated are the ones from MJLicensing in 2008.

Richard can you please reply to this please were MJ personally met with Bravado in June 2009 to approve merchandise. Also can you please ask your bravado contact if MJ did indeed meet with Bravdo in June 29 and was he provided a prototype. Directly ask if any prototypes were made at all and or presented to MJ at that June 25th meeting to clear this up. I think We should have that question answered clearly before we make any judgment.

In or around March 2009, Bravado entered into arrangements with AEG Live, LLC (“AEG&#8221 to serve as the merchandising company for Michael Jackson related merchandise in connection with AEG’s agreement with Michael Jackson for the then scheduled “This Is It Tour” of live performances of Mr. Jackson.

In connection with Bravado serving as the merchandising company for Mr. Jackson’s “This Is It Tour,”
Bravado created over 300 designs of Michael Jackson related merchandise.

Tom Bennett of Bravado presented all of those Jackson merchandise designs to Mr. Jackson personally in Los Angeles, California. At a meeting attended by Mr. Bennett as well as Mr. Jackson in early June 2009.

Mr. Jackson personally approved approximately 295 of the Jackson merchandise designs presented to him for creation and sale in connection with the This Is It Tour and the official Jackson merchandise website

 

[ItsALLforLOVE]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Richard can you please reply to this please were MJ personally met with Bravado in June 2009 to approve merchandise. Also can you please ask your bravado contact if MJ did indeed meet with Bravdo in June 29 and was he provided a prototype. Directly ask if any prototypes were made at all and or presented to MJ at that June 25th meeting to clear this up. I think We should have that question answered clearly before we make any judgment.

I am not Richard, but I believe if there was a prototype or pre-June 25, 2009 item presented to Michael Jackson in its full retail packaging, it would have AEG and Bravado on it instead of Triumph and Bravado on it.

At the O2 Experience Store. The items I purchased there for This Is it had AEG/Bravado.

This standee, like in the auction, says Triumph and Bravado. There is a difference. The standee, IMO, is post June 25, 2009 licensing and was NOT part of the This Is It merchandising plans pre-June 25.

 

[Richard Lecocq]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

ok, what I can tell you solid gold is that MJ only received some prototypes on papers, no FINAL AND ACTUIAL PRODUCTS. everything was just in total rush for TII as you all know.
also, by June 14, MJ still had not met or replied to Bravado and AEG request reg the merch to be sold at the O2. As I said several tims before, NONE OF THE AEG/BRAVADO stuff for TII was ever approvd by MJ. I was quite aware of the situation back then and will deal with all these issues with former MJ merchandiser BRAVADO/AEG tried to get to so that the merch situation could move forward.
Now, I know that some fans will always see what they want to see. All I know is that I was there and cced of many emails back then regarding this mess.
and AGAIN, Triumph was not active from 2007 down to august 2009. MJ had developped MJLicensing inbetween, hence many of the deals such as Pyramid posters thatw ere renegociated and rebought by Bravado after his passing.

 

[Richard Lecocq]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

I am not Richard, but I believe if there was a prototype or pre-June 25, 2009 item presented to Michael Jackson in its full retail packaging, it would have AEG and Bravado on it instead of Triumph and Bravado on it.

At the O2 Experience Store. The items I purchased there for This Is it had AEG/Bravado.

This standee, like in the auction, says Triumph and Bravado. There is a difference. The standee, IMO, is post June 25, 2009 licensing and was NOT part of the This Is It merchandising plans pre-June 25.

correct all items up to late 2009 were AEG+BRAVADO and also had to be TII or O2 50 shows related.

 

[ivy]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Prototype with Triumph logo ?
Impossible, Triumph was re-activated in August 2009.

Just because it was not active doesn't mean that they weren't using the name. The only reason many stuff - including companies and trademarks- lapsed is because Michael's management wasn't paying the necessary fees.

See this from Leslie

Michael Jackson's Licensing Issues
Updates to my December 6th, 2008 post regarding Michael Jackson's licensing business issues:

- Jackson's original licence owner company "Triumph International Inc." (TI) has been suspended for sure both in California and Delaware. However in the very same year someone registered "Triumph International LLC" in Delaware. It's still unclear if the second company does belong to Jackson.

- It seems that "TI" is still the sole licence owner of Jackson's merchandising rights worldwide, however "TI" sold these rights in Europe to "MJ Licensing LLC" (MJL) until June 2012. Jackson most probably has a 75% stake in MJL.

So you can see that the 2003 suspended Triumph International was still doing deals in 2008. So it's not necessarily "impossible".

correct all items up to late 2009 were AEG+BRAVADO and also had to be TII or O2 50 shows related.

In court , Bravado said they were both doing AEG- TII merchandise as well as an official merchandise store for Michael. It seems the later one was broader than TII.

and also, keep in mind that MJ did not approve any of the TII items. He hardly wanted to go to rehearsals, so merch was clearly not his priority back then.

Well you have a statement under the perjury of court that says Bravado took over 300 items to him in June and he approved 290 or so of them.

You also have Latoya Jackson (see below) walking around a "a few was made" tshirt with a signature on it. Unless you are calling Latoya a liar she's mentioning a MJ approved prototype. (Which is according to her is printed a second time after his death as well - with his death date on it. ) Of course I guess you can also say that this T-shirt Latoya had auctioned for $99,000 is also fake.

 

[ivy]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

I have to add that I second qbee. On your website you have posted an email with 4 very specific questions. The way to end this issue and to know for sure is to get Bravado to answer that 4 specific questions in detail.

We all know the mass production / sale to the public was in October 2009 but I don't see enough detail given to deny a possible prototype.

Otherwise you are claiming that Bravado lied under oath - which is a perjury- that Michael had a meeting with Tom Bennett and approved items and Latoya is lying when she said "only two" was made for that TII tshirst and Michael "signed" it.

 

[Richard Lecocq]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

quote:
In court , Bravado said they were both doing AEG- TII merchandise as well as an official merchandise store for michael.

answer : yes, michael jackson store for all the TII items they laicensed for. that was updated in late august 2009 as we know.

and as for Triumph Intl, the last tile it was used was for the My World photobook a project that ahd to be done to clear some business issues with D Wiesner.
after this, MJ focused on MJL and actually the Triumph name was les and less used to the point the company was suspended (and also it had become odd to use what had become the name of a bra and panties company).
I resopect your point Ivy, but I can tell you this standee is post June 2009, in any shape.