Lets Discuss BAD concerts footage and what may have been shot on film ?

[IMWhizzle]

All hearsay, we must know the facts!

 

[Zakk]

Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

This is the first of the three shows in Minneapolis, May 4th. The one from Moonwalker is probably from the 6th, last one.

someone will have to compare his shirt, otherwise we'll never know unless it gets released which IMO it should as Michael approved it for Moonwalker and the audio too!

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

All hearsay, we must know the facts!

someone will have to compare his shirt, otherwise we'll never know unless it gets released which IMO it should as Michael approved it for Moonwalker and the audio too!

Not really, it even says so on the info next to the pictures, and he is not wearing a V-neck white t-shirt

 

[ChrisC]

Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

I think selling tickets to show and miming 90+% is deception. I think holding or wearing a mic when you have no intention of singing live is deception. I think covering your mouth and the microphone when there's vocal overlays in the recorded vocal is deception. That's why I used the term deception.

At times you even get a feel that he's not entirely sure of the next line and thus creates some kind of diversion physically to cover it and pick up the line once he's reminded by the track.

As much as in theory it sounds great, it still doesn't ring true to me. Look at the songs Michael does sing live - they are completely different to his recorded vocal (what's there in terms of lead vocal and what isn't, and indeed the pacing of certain lines and presumably to some degree the shape he is making with his mouth). He sure isn't obsessing over every hiccup adlib from his original recording. However when he's miming, he's pretty sure to hit those hiccups - 9 times out of 10 anyway. Unless you're saying that he makes a choice when he knows what's going out live and what isn't, and performs it live 'verbatim' when he knows its mimed. Possible also I suppose.

There's also those gigs we know Michael did when he was suffering from various throat conditions - mime more and it's a great opportunity to recover/rest the voice....or sing full out regardless knowing no-one in the audience will hear it.

As I said, call me an ignorant old fool, but I just find it so difficult to believe.

 

[Zakk]

Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

Not really, it even says so on the info next to the pictures, and he is not wearing a V-neck white t-shirt

so you're saying May 4th & 6th Minneapolis could be on film?

 

[Zakk]

Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

I think selling tickets to show and miming 90+% is deception. I think holding or wearing a mic when you have no intention of singing live is deception. I think covering your mouth and the microphone when there's vocal overlays in the recorded vocal is deception. That's why I used the term deception.

At times you even get a feel that he's not entirely sure of the next line and thus creates some kind of diversion physically to cover it and pick up the line once he's reminded by the track.

As much as in theory it sounds great, it still doesn't ring true to me. Look at the songs Michael does sing live - they are completely different to his recorded vocal (what's there in terms of lead vocal and what isn't, and indeed the pacing of certain lines and presumably to some degree the shape he is making with his mouth). He sure isn't obsessing over every hiccup adlib from his original recording. However when he's miming, he's pretty sure to hit those hiccups - 9 times out of 10 anyway. Unless you're saying that he makes a choice when he knows what's going out live and what isn't, and performs it live 'verbatim' when he knows its mimed. Possible also I suppose.

There's also those gigs we know Michael did when he was suffering from various throat conditions - mime more and it's a great opportunity to recover/rest the voice....or sing full out regardless knowing no-one in the audience will hear it.

As I said, call me an ignorant old fool, but I just find it so difficult to believe.

with a hoarse voice Michael always sang in a lower register, just listen to Man in the Mirror Dangerous Tour rehearsal, you'd still get vocals, but very quiet!

 

[charismatic]

Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

I think selling tickets to show and miming 90+% is deception. I think holding or wearing a mic when you have no intention of singing live is deception. I think covering your mouth and the microphone when there's vocal overlays in the recorded vocal is deception. That's why I used the term deception.

At times you even get a feel that he's not entirely sure of the next line and thus creates some kind of diversion physically to cover it and pick up the line once he's reminded by the track.

As much as in theory it sounds great, it still doesn't ring true to me. Look at the songs Michael does sing live - they are completely different to his recorded vocal (what's there in terms of lead vocal and what isn't, and indeed the pacing of certain lines and presumably to some degree the shape he is making with his mouth). He sure isn't obsessing over every hiccup adlib from his original recording. However when he's miming, he's pretty sure to hit those hiccups - 9 times out of 10 anyway. Unless you're saying that he makes a choice when he knows what's going out live and what isn't, and performs it live 'verbatim' when he knows its mimed. Possible also I suppose.

There's also those gigs we know Michael did when he was suffering from various throat conditions - mime more and it's a great opportunity to recover/rest the voice....or sing full out regardless knowing no-one in the audience will hear it.

As I said, call me an ignorant old fool, but I just find it so difficult to believe.

ChrisC,

The whole show is about illusion and fantasy. From the makeup, to the costumes, to the special effects, even his persona is created for the audience. None of that is real, so why harp on one aspect of the show? The entire package is what's important. Something will suffer if he wants to sing live. Singing live and dancing insync is hard to do for a 2 hour show. Its a show just like when you go to the movies.

I'm not trying to sound mean, so please don't take it that way. I just never cared about whether he lip sings. He sung those vocals at some point or another. Now what I don't like is when they use the same STUDIO vocals from the album for the LIVE show. That's what I hate! If you want and expect vocals at concert, you'll have to find a singer who sings only. Michael acted, danced and sung during his performance, so it's understandable if wants to lip sync his vocals.

 

[Zakk]

Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

I think selling tickets to show and miming 90+% is deception. I think holding or wearing a mic when you have no intention of singing live is deception. I think covering your mouth and the microphone when there's vocal overlays in the recorded vocal is deception. That's why I used the term deception.

At times you even get a feel that he's not entirely sure of the next line and thus creates some kind of diversion physically to cover it and pick up the line once he's reminded by the track.

As much as in theory it sounds great, it still doesn't ring true to me. Look at the songs Michael does sing live - they are completely different to his recorded vocal (what's there in terms of lead vocal and what isn't, and indeed the pacing of certain lines and presumably to some degree the shape he is making with his mouth). He sure isn't obsessing over every hiccup adlib from his original recording. However when he's miming, he's pretty sure to hit those hiccups - 9 times out of 10 anyway. Unless you're saying that he makes a choice when he knows what's going out live and what isn't, and performs it live 'verbatim' when he knows its mimed. Possible also I suppose.

There's also those gigs we know Michael did when he was suffering from various throat conditions - mime more and it's a great opportunity to recover/rest the voice....or sing full out regardless knowing no-one in the audience will hear it.

As I said, call me an ignorant old fool, but I just find it so difficult to believe.

again, this thread isn't called "let's investigate where Michael used playback in his shows" if you really find the need to discuss that, create a thread, simple. this thread is to discuss and express our dreams to see these magical performances in High Definition in the future, and see which shows from this legendary world tour was shot on film. we have made great progress up to now, as Go Flying revealed that all the original Film footage has been identified and located. the estate will find a lack of interest in fans if all we discuss is the audio side. tbh film reel audio as heard on Moonwalker Man in the Mirror is beautiful to me! so please just discuss about the film reels. thanks.

 

[charismatic]

Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

BAD25 video was claimed to be sourced from MJ's personal VHS copy. All the original source materials were finally located in MJ's archives yet the estate claimed that MJ's vhs vid found on his nightstand was the only remaining video copy.

If found it peculiar that the Estate didn't mention anything about the existence film reels (or even that they were lost) when they explained why they were releasing a VHS copy for Bad 25. Also peculiar, was that they made it seem like back at that time high quality video wasn't at all possible when artist are release HQ concert footage from the 80s and much earlier today on Blu Ray.

So do you think they found the footage before they released Bad25 or after? If before, why would they release the VHS copy? I personally think the low quality of the video greatly impacted sales.

 

[Zakk]

Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

If found it peculiar that the Estate didn't mention anything about the existence film reels (or even that they were lost) when they explained why they were releasing a VHS copy for Bad 25. Also peculiar, was that they made it seem like back at that time high quality video wasn't at all possible when artist are release HQ concert footage from the 80s and much earlier today on Blu Ray.

So do you think they found the footage before they released Bad25 or after? If before, why would they release the VHS copy? I personally think the low quality of the video greatly impacted sales.

1958 Movie filmed by Super 8mm Film Camera. Restored 2013 Blu-Ray Release.

 

[Galactus123]

Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

So do you think they found the footage before they released Bad25 or after? If before, why would they release the VHS copy?

I think Bad 25 release was decided before they started cataloguing and digitalizing everything they have. If they have found the film reels(I really hope they have) that happened after Bad 25 announcement. If the film reels were taken to warehouses after the tour they should still be there.

I watch Another Part Of Me and this all the time. Just amazing footage!:

 

[Zakk]

Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

Restored 35mm Film Reel is double the strength of 1080p HD Video Recording of today. If the original film negatives have been found they should restore them as soon as possible. Release Minneapolis in Cinemas and Later on Blu-Ray!! preserving the genius of Michael on stage forever. that's what his legacy needs, along with the unreleased song's of course.

 

[Zakk]

Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

each show they have on 35mm film should be scanned at 5k Resolution, that's the maxim detail from 35mm. 1080p HD scan only has a quatre of the original detail of 35mm film.

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

so you're saying May 4th & 6th Minneapolis could be on film?

Haha, no thats not what im saying zak. I was just stating the info that was on the page

 

[Robbsaber01]

Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

So let me try to get this :
Before Bad 25 was announced they only had one show worth releasing which was vhs
After the release they *might* have catalogued everything they have (including Tape /Film Masters)
Now we have no idea if film is in the possession of the estate.
Great.

 

[Zakk]

Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

So let me try to get this :
Before Bad 25 was announced they only had one show worth releasing which was vhs
After the release they *might* have catalogued everything they have (including Tape /Film Masters)
Now we have no idea if film is in the possession of the estate.
Great.

Go flying said the full Liverpool Aintree show is on film and the original Bad Tour materials have been in Michael's archive all along

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

Go flying said the full Liverpool Aintree show is on film and the original Bad Tour materials have been in Michael's archive all along

I really hope the estate releases many concerts on dvd/bluray. Queen,madonna and almost every big artist has multiple concerts out on DVD/Bluray. Michael needs this treatment too.

 

[Zakk]

Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

I really hope the estate releases many concerts on dvd/bluray. Queen,madonna and almost every big artist has multiple concerts out on DVD/Bluray. Michael needs this treatment too.

me too! one perfect Blu-Ray Release of each Tour with hours of bonus features would be perfect!

 

[Galactus123]

Re: Michael Prince & Brad Buxer - Secret Project (Confirmed MJ related - Post #155)

Bad Tour could be on Blu-Ray because some concerts were shot on film. If they have the film reels it is possible.

 

[AlwaysThere]

Re: Michael Prince & Brad Buxer - Secret Project (Confirmed MJ related - Post #155)

Bad Tour could be on Blu-Ray because come concerts were shot on film. If they have the film reels it is possible.

But they don't have the film unfortunately. As they said in a statement, they have a "priceless collection" of umatics and the film reels to the Yokohama show, which many fans wouldn't buy.

 

[IMWhizzle]

But they don't have the film unfortunately. As they said in a statement, they have a "priceless collection" of umatics and the film reels to the Yokohama show, which many fans wouldn't buy.

I would!

 

[dam2040]

Re: Michael Prince & Brad Buxer - Secret Project (Confirmed MJ related - Post #155)

I actually like the Yokohama show. I'd love a HQ version of it with good audio. I think it's because of things like Lovely One that I like the show so much.

 

[analogue]

Re: Michael Prince & Brad Buxer - Secret Project (Confirmed MJ related - Post #155)

Yokohama is great but if i had to choose between the high quality Yokohama or the average quality Wembley then i'd take Wembley every time. Wembley has the better setlist and the perfomance was better

 

[Billyjeanplxiv]

Re: Michael Prince & Brad Buxer - Secret Project (Confirmed MJ related - Post #155)

We ethier got BLURAY Film Quality HD video and crappy audio, or crappy video with amazing audio and the live CD.

 

[AlwaysThere]

Re: Michael Prince & Brad Buxer - Secret Project (Confirmed MJ related - Post #155)

Like I said though, MANY fans wouldn't. There is a margin of fans who would, and I respect that. But I already have at least two different bootleg DVDs of the Yokohama show. It would be a totally useless release.

 

[thrillerchild]

Re: Michael Prince & Brad Buxer - Secret Project (Confirmed MJ related - Post #155)

The only part of Yokohama I want in HD is Michael's circle glide during Billie Jean!!! :wild:

 

[Rudolf]

Re: Michael Prince & Brad Buxer - Secret Project (Confirmed MJ related - Post #155)

Like I said though, MANY fans wouldn't. There is a margin of fans who would, and I respect that. But I already have at least two different bootleg DVDs of the Yokohama show. It would be a totally useless release.

Can't compare Blu-Ray (considering there's film of Yokohama which is a speculation) to old VHS bootleg (although it looks considerably well). I'd buy it. I'd totally have a new look at the show. Quality means so much to me it affects the way I look at the concert and the performance. That's why I've watched Wembley only once. Queen released Hungarian Rhapsody on cinemas and BR last year, I went to cinema and I own the BR and it looks fantastic, I've seen it a few times, I like the show even more than I did before. It was released on VHS already in 80s and I think bit later on laserdisc so it was very common bootleg.

By the way, there are people that actually buy bootlegs from places like mjdavid007, mjdvdstore etc. Why wouldn't they buy official material which is 20x better (although seen before)?

Your point is valid though. I'd rather take a different show than Yokohama if it was possible.

 

[IMWhizzle]

Can't compare Blu-Ray (considering there's film of Yokohama which is a speculation) to old VHS bootleg (although it looks considerably well). I'd buy it. I'd totally have a new look at the show. Quality means so much to me it affects the way I look at the concert and the performance. That's why I've watched Wembley only once. Queen released Hungarian Rhapsody on cinemas and BR last year, I went to cinema and I own the BR and it looks fantastic, I've seen it a few times, I like the show even more than I did before. It was released on VHS already in 80s and I think bit later on laserdisc so it was very common bootleg.

By the way, there are people that actually buy bootlegs from places like mjdavid007, mjdvdstore etc. Why wouldn't they buy official material which is 20x better (although seen before)?

Your point is valid though. I'd rather take a different show than Yokohama if it was possible.

I completely agree with you!

 

[mj_brainiac]

Re: Michael Prince & Brad Buxer - Secret Project (Confirmed MJ related - Post #155)

But they don't have the film unfortunately. As they said in a statement, they have a "priceless collection" of umatics and the film reels to the Yokohama show, which many fans wouldn't buy.

I think GoFlying posted some time ago that the estate DID find the umatic or reels for the Wembley show?

Since they have umatics for other shows, they could still do a blu ray release. It doesn't have the July 16 show. Heck, they could've done the July 15 show (I'm still trying to figure out why they used the July 16 show when they had the July 15 show in better quality along with the multitracks)

 

[bobmoo79]

Re: Michael Prince & Brad Buxer - Secret Project (Confirmed MJ related - Post #155)

I think GoFlying posted some time ago that the estate DID find the umatic or reels for the Wembley show?

Since they have umatics for other shows, they could still do a blu ray release. It doesn't have the July 16 show. Heck, they could've done the July 15 show (I'm still trying to figure out why they used the July 16 show when they had the July 15 show in better quality along with the multitracks)

This is going over old ground, but I thought they DIDN'T have any multi-track audio for any of the Umatics. Maybe I'm wrong.