Korgnex
Proud Member
some people just don't hear that it's him...Can't force anyone to hear that
There is one mistake in your sentence: "Some" people do NOT agree with that claim. You can't force anyone to agree with that claim.
some people just don't hear that it's him...Can't force anyone to hear that
There is one mistake in your sentence: "Some" people do NOT agree with that claim. You can't force anyone to agree with that claim.
Can't sell demo's, they don't make $
^^hahaha..!!Actually they do, if they're targeted to the right people (hardcore fans) but since that's not happening and the demos aren't the main product on a release that targets the general public, they should put the demos on a damn 2nd f**cking disc.
That way the general public is happy to get new MJ songs without caring about demos and the hardcore fans are happy cause they get the demos and the re-worked tracks (if they care about them or not). The 2 disc collectors editions could be an extra 10-20-30 bucks or whatever (I'd personally be willing to pay extra for the demos and I imagine many other MJ fans would too) and I'd be a win-win-win for the Estate/Sony, the general public and the MJ fans...
Seriously MJ Estate and Sony, this isn't rocket science...
I'm having a hard time believing that whenever they have a meeting to discuss how they're gonna do a new album and somebody asks "so, how we gonna do this?" everybody in there is like...
'Finish' Michael's work by today's hottest producers: fine (not my personal preference, but alas. Can't sell demo's, they don't make $)
Mixes of Michael's songs by today's hottest Dj's: fine too
Releasing songs that Michael had nothing to do with and sell/label them as his work: unacceptable
^^hahaha..!!
I have a feeling they think a second disc with demo's or interesting stuff for hardcore fans only doesn't sell too well. Maybe too little hardcore fans overall?
Don't know about sales from similar special (demo, rare audio) discs from other artists?
I personally am not interested in remixes. I can listen to them and have an opinion, but I realize it's just someone elses work. And when I hear a 'finished' Michael song, the only parts I enjoy are Michael's voice and the melody and the thought behind the song. And when it's done with real love and respect for the artist/person Michael Jackson (which I feel when I hear Will.I.am or Ron Feemster or the guitarist Tommy Emmanuel on 'Much too soon' speak for example), I just can't have problems with it.
Michael's gone and that's how it works. I pick and listen to what I like and ignore the rest. I also realize that not everyone feels this way and I can understand that. It really depends on what kind of fan you are, I think... We're all different fans.
But I do have problems (eufemism...uke with people who's ego's are too big for their own good and don't know their limits (and talk BS about how eager Michael was to let his fans hear these 'pearls', that he worked so hard on), because they probably never in their life have heard the word 'NO' before.
No, THEY wanted the world to hear THEIR work, not Michael's.
Paw;3694357 said:“This Is It” was finished by John McClain just like “Hold My Hand” was finished by Akon,so they are both undoubtedly “fake”.Just kidding.
Michael never stop writing songs,but many of which are unfinished or just demos.If some of them were chosen to be released on an album,they would be finished by others or released the way Michael left behind.The only “real” song we got is “Don’t Be Messin’ Around” (Demo) since June 25th,2009.DBMA is an interesting demo which is appropriate for fans’ collection,but not to new generation’s taste.It’s not even up to Michael Jackson the perfectionist’s releasable standard.So we will inevitably depend on other producers finishing many of Michael’s posthumous songs.
I can understand that fans want to experience music the way Michael left behind.They want Michael’s vision.Now the question is….what is Michael’s vision?Anybody knows of it?I believe nobody knows it better than Michael himself.He said Michael wanted it this way,she said Michael liked that more.They are nothing but our imagination.Michael would keep on polishing his music if you never set the deadline.You thought some song was finished and reflected Michael’s vision,but Michael might change it thoroughly himself.So I believe Michael’s vision issue is an unanswerable question.
I don't think it is besides the point if Jason was used. There is a big difference between an imposters vocals and guide vocals. Guide vocals are still Michael. An imposters vocals are illegal. It is fraud.
Judging from Michael's work, this is definitely not the way he wanted these songs to sound, the voice, the tacky production and all the cut and pastes...We need to find a common ground among all fans...and I think that's a good start to all agree on...
Actually they do, if they're targeted to the right people (hardcore fans) but since that's not happening and the demos aren't the main product on a release that targets the general public, they should put the demos on a damn 2nd f**cking disc.
That way the general public is happy to get new MJ songs without caring about demos and the hardcore fans are happy cause they get the demos and the re-worked tracks (if they care about them or not). The 2 disc collectors editions could be an extra 10-20-30 bucks or whatever (I'd personally be willing to pay extra for the demos and I imagine many other MJ fans would too) and I'd be a win-win-win for the Estate/Sony, the general public and the MJ fans...
Seriously MJ Estate and Sony, this isn't rocket science...
I'm having a hard time believing that whenever they have a meeting to discuss how they're gonna do a new album and somebody asks "so, how we gonna do this?" everybody in there is like...
Actually they do, if they're targeted to the right people (hardcore fans) but since that's not happening and the demos aren't the main product on a release that targets the general public, they should put the demos on a damn 2nd f**cking disc.
That way the general public is happy to get new MJ songs without caring about demos and the hardcore fans are happy cause they get the demos and the re-worked tracks (if they care about them or not). The 2 disc collectors editions could be an extra 10-20-30 bucks or whatever (I'd personally be willing to pay extra for the demos and I imagine many other MJ fans would too) and I'd be a win-win-win for the Estate/Sony, the general public and the MJ fans...
Seriously MJ Estate and Sony, this isn't rocket science...
I'm having a hard time believing that whenever they have a meeting to discuss how they're gonna do a new album and somebody asks "so, how we gonna do this?" everybody in there is like...
^^hahaha..!!
I have a feeling they think a second disc with demo's or interesting stuff for hardcore fans only doesn't sell too well. Maybe too little hardcore fans overall?
Don't know about sales from similar special (demo, rare audio) discs from other artists?
I personally am not interested in remixes. I can listen to them and have an opinion, but I realize it's just someone elses work. And when I hear a 'finished' Michael song, the only parts I enjoy are Michael's voice and the melody and the thought behind the song. And when it's done with real love and respect for the artist/person Michael Jackson (which I feel when I hear Will.I.am or Ron Feemster or the guitarist Tommy Emmanuel on 'Much too soon' speak for example), I just can't have problems with it.
But the thing is, the Estate cannot reply purely on the hardcore fanbase to make money. The songs are redone to have a contemporary appeal and gather in new fans. I can count that my kid brother (who is entering ninth grade) has friends that didn't have an interest in Michael until they heard this album. We all would love to hear the original, untouched demo recordings, but that won't make as much of an impact.
And before I'm scolded, I vastly prefer untouched demos to redone tracks. I'm just being realistic. Besides, the 2013 album's songs will be mostly untouched, with a few alterations here and there.
But the thing is, the Estate cannot reply purely on the hardcore fanbase to make money. The songs are redone to have a contemporary appeal and gather in new fans. I can count that my kid brother (who is entering ninth grade) has friends that didn't have an interest in Michael until they heard this album. We all would love to hear the original, untouched demo recordings, but that won't make as much of an impact.
And before I'm scolded, I vastly prefer untouched demos to redone tracks. I'm just being realistic. Besides, the 2013 album's songs will be mostly untouched, with a few alterations here and there.
Actually there's quite a lot of posthumous releases to know how the market works.
Demos don't sell. It only interests die-hard fans and that's a too small market for any profit. - Remember the physical sales for Don't be messin' around in USA? Around 5,000 - 10,000 units in first week , that's too small. Similarly it didn't even make to the digital singles chart. demos don't sell.
So for any decent sale they need to focus on general public and to fully finished songs. Sometimes even remixed, or updated to current time songs. Remember Elvis's "a little less conversation" ?
2 CD sets do not sell as well. Having to print two (or more versions) cost more money . Retailers don't prefer to stock two or more versions due to limited shelf and inventory space. So probably given that the "collectors edition with original demos" would sell low numbers (as only die hard fans would buy it) and given the cost elements it wouldn't make sense to release it.
A digital release can be a possibility but most people would not pay for it extra either. They would feel that as they bought the album and paid for it, it's okay to get the demos for free.
So the most logical scenario would be is actually hold on to the demos for a far future release. Because posthumous releases also show that after a while posthumous sales decrease and became limited to die hard fans only. so that would be a good time to release the "Michael Jackson original demos" and actually be able to sell some.
I agree with Stella. (yeah shocker I know ahahaha ) There's a huge difference of "falsification" Korgex defined versus the imposter vocal theory.
The "falsification" is a posthumous release concept and more of a ethics issue such as
- is it okay to have Eminem produce a Tupac album ? (Eminem wasn't even industry when Tupac died)
- is it okay to use already released song bits of Biggie to create new songs?
- is it okay to strengthen Michael's vocals with additional vocals for a composite lead?
Furthermore if the "falsification" theory assumes every vocal is at least credited with a background vocal credit, that could even be legal.
As Stella pointed out imposter vocals area whole totally different thing which is clearly illegal.
I know you heard me say "it's the reality of posthumous releases" a million times but I'm gonna repeat it again I like to give Tupac - Eminem example. It was 5th or 6th posthumous release, by that time sales were declining of Tupac. Tupac's mother who also runs his Estate approved Eminem to be the producer, actually they wanted a new approach and a popular and hip person to do it.
However Eminem was a cook when Tupac died, wasn't in the music industry, never met or worked with Tupac. Furthermore he totally had his spin / style on the songs, even did new beats and modified Tupac's vocals to fit the new music. Needless to say some Tupac fans were angered by it. They didn't want Eminem around the songs, they criticized the how the songs were drastically changed and not Tupac's vision and so on. Also generally speaking in both Tupac and Biggie's cases they kept adding verses from other current artists to complete the songs.
That's what I call a "posthumous release reality". Some fans would criticize it as it happened in the cases of Tupac and Biggie. and it's really a choice. but not really comparable to an imposter .
But the thing is, the Estate cannot reply purely on the hardcore fanbase to make money. The songs are redone to have a contemporary appeal and gather in new fans. I can count that my kid brother (who is entering ninth grade) has friends that didn't have an interest in Michael until they heard this album. We all would love to hear the original, untouched demo recordings, but that won't make as much of an impact.
And before I'm scolded, I vastly prefer untouched demos to redone tracks. I'm just being realistic. Besides, the 2013 album's songs will be mostly untouched, with a few alterations here and there.
As I pointed out, the Bob Dylan Bootleg series does very well and is highly anticipated and he is still alive! It really depends what your expectations are. I don't expect Michael to be topping the charts with every release like when he was here. That to me is unrealistic.
Omg. Bumpy is here!!!! :jumpy:
GOOD JOB ANIRAM!
WE DID IT!
^^ I remember you guys talking about it a few pages back or something :lol:
LOL, the skinny one looks like Conan O'Brien
I wouldn't call that a posthumous release reality...What I'd refer to is say, 'Hold My Hand' or 'Behind the Mask', or 'Much Too Soon'...as posthumous realities...Do you see vast quantities of fans angered by those releases? No, you don't...
You see anger about the Cascio songs...Those go WAY WAY beyond a posthumous release reality, and definitely CAN be comparable to an imposter, because it could very well be one...
But anyway, we're not talking about Biggie and Tupac or whatever...We're talking about Michael and he's the only one I really care about...