MJ Wasnt Healthy

[ivy]

I can hear that he could no longer sing some songs or some parts of some songs.

just :2cents:

anybody's performance is bound to decrease as they get older but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are not healthy.

for example we don't see many (if any) athletes in their 50s still actively competing simply because nobody can sustain the same performance levels of their 20s or 30s.

That's just the reality of getting old.

 

[Ashtanga]

I dont think so! :no:

No? Do you believe he wanted to do 50 concerts with those crazy dates? Sorry, but those crazy dates, is to challenge human nature. :bugeyed

Remember: there were 10 shows (in the press conference he speaks 10 shows) that later became 50.

 

[callmerose]

This is from the Thriller era. There are other times in his life when he was as thin or more thin than in TII. Oxman should know that. He is just trying to stir things up.

 

[StephluvsMJ]

I dont think Michael was ALL that healthy! I'm not blind and I'm not deaf! I can hear that he could no longer sing some songs or some parts of some songs. I'm not judging him! He sang his entire life, so if he decided to do an entire show using playback, I would never mind!

Love to him for trying very hard! I think he tried very hard! I think he did have fun, I think he was excited. But deep inside, he was afraid and nervous! Oops thats another story!

Before throwing stones at me, let me tell you that I see Michael as a human being, not a super hero!

That's funny because I thought Michael sounded amazing. He wasn't even trying hard but his voice was spot-on. Human Nature and IJCSLY were unbelievable vocal performances.

What's interesting is that we all read the same documents and we all see the same footage but we end up seeing completely different things.

If we believe Michael was unhealthy, then we'd look at footage and see someone unhealthy. If we believe Michael was driven, enthusiastic, happy, then that's what we'd see. There's no other way I can explain it. We just see what we want to. I look at the autopsy and see a relatively healthy 50 year old. Although a little too thin for my liking, he was still healthy for his age. Others would look at it and see the opposite, as evidenced in this thread. Even Oxman saw something different.

 

[BubblesLuvsMichael]

How come everyone uses the same two pictures when trying to compare Michael's weight loss from 96' to 2010? HIStory was almost 15 years prior to TII, how can you even compare the two?

Ditto, I'd like to know how to can compare nearly 15 years it's just the same bullshit that always comes out of people's mouths that are looking for attention

 

[honeysucklejasmine]

Even Oxman saw something different.

Oxman also saw some things that weren't there: bronchiolitis is not the same as bronchitis and pneumonitis is not the same as pneumonia. In fact on examination of the left lung tissue the autopsy report explicitly stated there was NO evidence of 'consolidation' - a change which is seen in the lung if pneumonia is present.

For Oxman to go into a public forum and misstate the autopsy report so profoundly is irresponsible and IMO it continues to diminish his credibility.

 

[Thetruthbetold]

dude is a straight cornball pink bunny rabbit freaking lying joke

 

[kasume]

According to the 3+ hour physical that Michael had passed with flying colors, Michael was very healthy.

Has anyone seen Michael in his thriller video with his skinny read pants. I guess he was not healthy then too.

And I thought Michael sounded amazing too, remember, according to his TII dancer, Chris grant, Michael's BEST moments were not shown in this it is, the moments that Chris described when he was "really, I mean realling doing it."

And Michael even mentioned before that he doesn't like to go all out at rehearsals, save all the energy for the fans instead.

And is it just me? Or has all the articles of Michael passing his physical with flying colors been taking down? I can't find any of them. Is there any explanation for it? Or am I not looking right, or hard enough? You guys can see for yourself, NO articles can be found anymore of that physical he took. I remember they were ALL OVER the net when the news first came out.

 

[AnnieRUOkay89]

Just out of curiosity, was Michael sick during the Dangerous rehearsals?

 

[Safira]

bleeeh Michael was always a thin person. He looked good.
I don't see any unheathy signs on him in the last rehersals at all..

MJ looked reeeeeeally gorgious till' the end, I'm afraid to tell you Oxman honney..

 

[Petals]

No? Do you believe he wanted to do 50 concerts with those crazy dates? Sorry, but those crazy dates, is to challenge human nature. :bugeyed

Remember: there were 10 shows (in the press conference he speaks 10 shows) that later became 50.

Oh boy!

No, I dont believe he wanted to do 50 shows!

"I dont think so" means "eu acho que não" que quer dizer, eu não acho q ele queria fazer 50 shows!

I'm not talking about it anymore.

 

[AnnieRUOkay89]

Everybody will hate waht I will say but I believe what Oxman says They used to keep Michael on drugs. Michael had to be in the hospital for treatment but not performing. He was draind and very weak emotionally. He could not be without those drugs. They used to keep him under pressure to make it worse.
Ppl who were around him and who wanted to make money of him knew what they were doing. They made more money from his death then from 50 shows if he would able to do all of them .
Michael was very thin and he did not look helaty in TII. Please do not ignore this fact. Michael was driven to death and there is a conspiracy bihind it. Group of ppl pushed unhealthy person to perform which killed him. This is my opinion.
I do not know if Oxman believes in conspiracy but I do and what he says fits perfectly what I think about Michael's death.

Thats a bit confusing...While respecting your opinion, I wouldn't go as far to label some of what you stated as fact.

 

[TinaG]

I think that there is a big difference between fact and subjective opinion. In reading this entire thread, I think it's important to point that out (and this is NOT aimed at any ONE person in particular by any means!). For Michael (or anyone) to "look" healthy is a matter of subjective opinion, rather than fact.

I personally don't know if Michael truly was healthy just by looking at him in photos from TII. Everything I see when I look at those images is my opinion. I think he looked thin, but I can't form any sort of logical opinion about whether or not he looked healthy at all..because it's simply too subjective.

The one thing that bothers me about the content of the original post is the two images being compared side by side. I just don't think it's fair or accurate to compare those two photos because they are taken too far apart. (And, DI, I know you didn't create the comparison, so this is not an attack on you of any sort.) If we had a photo of MJ in January of 2009 looking very beefy (or with noticeably more weight, however you want to look at it), and then that was used as the comparison, then I would assume *based on my own subjective opinion* that by the time we saw photos of him from TII that he had lost a bunch of weight and that TII was the reason. I can't make that same leap from comparing photos that were taken over a decade apart.

I am not saying he looked healthy in TII. Likewise, I am not saying he looked unhealthy in TII. The only thing I see, in my subjective opinion, is that he looked thin...but since he looks much the same in most photos taken of him in the last couple of years, that doesn't prove anything to me with regard to his health, or the effect that working on TII had on him.

 

[Calotte12]

And I though about it, was it intentional by the part of MJ to wear too big clothes for him and to wear really tight clothes too ? To look thin and weak ? I really wonder sometimes.

 

[Ashtanga]

Oh boy!

No, I dont believe he wanted to do 50 shows!

"I dont think so" means "eu acho que não" que quer dizer, eu não acho q ele queria fazer 50 shows!

I'm not talking about it anymore.

Now I understand you. lol!

What I believe is that he wanted to do 10 shows and not 50.

And I though about it, was it intentional by the part of MJ to wear too big clothes for him and to wear really tight clothes too ? To look thin and weak ? I really wonder sometimes.

I understand you. Most of the scenes he is with many clothes that are always the same clothes. For me it means that it was to show that he was in several rechearsals. So what I see in the movie is that they really only 3 days of rechearsals, no more than that. He was not so present in rechearsals.

 

[earth child]

personally i believe he was under weight and way to skinny for the start of any tour. but that doesnt mean he was unhealthy interms of his organs or being ill. the terms mean two different things.

That is what I believe. His weight isn't what caused his death though it may have, had he made it to tour. He wasn't ready to tour. I heard him say that himself, on the now missing video from outside Burbank studio's.

 

[Maria MJ]

Exactly.
The point is from being skinny and feeling weak to the point of being an addict, there's a huge distance.
It makes you wonder why Oxman or the family come out with such reckless comments that could be and will be used by Murray's defense.
Almost as if they are trying themselves to get him off the hook.

 

[earth child]

Exactly.
The point is from being skinny and feeling weak to the point of being an addict, there's a huge distance.
It makes you wonder why Oxman or the family come out with such reckless comments that could be and will be used by Murray's defense.
Almost as if they are trying themselves to get him off the hook.

Maria, if there is one thing I learned in life, it is that anything is possible! I just hope in the end, we can sort out the truth from the lies.

 

[Rockin.]

This in bold was what was said in the autopsy about MJs lungs.

Did Michael not say himself he had something up with his lungs, and was once hospitalised because of it?So it was like a long time issue, possibly from his lupus?

Troublesome Findings?

There were rumors that MJ needed a lung transplant or had some sort of rare lung disease. He truly had a lung ailment. According to the findings in one of the reports, MJ’s left lung weighed 1060 grams and the right lung weighed 940 grams. Further in the report the following opinion was given.

The above findings reflect a depletion of structural and functional reserves of the lung. Reserve depletion is the result of widespread respiratory bronchiolitis and chronic lung inflammation in association with fibrocollagenous scars and organizing/recanalizing thromboemboli of small arteries. It should be noted that the above lung injury with reserve loss is not considered to be a direct or contributing cause of death. However, such an individual would be especially susceptible to adverse health effects.
​

No rumor there, he did in fact have a lung problem. Is it possible the aforementioned lung ailment was a result of lupus? Going back to the above section “Lupus and Men”, Men may have more lung problems associated with lupus. Was this possibly lupus?

I did read that an autopsy is in search of cause of death and typically will not diagnose underlying conditions unless they are blatantly obvious.

About the skinny thing. Yeh he was too skinny imo.

None of that is what killed him though, according to the coroner report.

 

[kasume]

And I though about it, was it intentional by the part of MJ to wear too big clothes for him and to wear really tight clothes too ? To look thin and weak ? I really wonder sometimes.

No. Michael just knew girls liked him in those tight pants. And he just knew girls would dig his tight red pants from TII. He knew what turned his fangirls on. Go to the "manhood" thread and that's all they talk about.

As for the big clothes, he were big clothes in the old days too, like big coats and pants.

 

[Naturelle]

Oxman is inconsistent with himself when he says he doesn't believe in conspiracy, yet he is representing Joe who does.
Totally agree with Sloride, the autopsy report showed MJ had no major health issues or addictions.

Yes, he talks out of both sides of his neck. Why doesn't he go and sit down somewhere? Geeeessszz:doh:

 

[Dangerous Incorporated]

Isnt it odd though MJ was healthy AND terminally at the same time??

 

[jayde123]

i think its pretty obvioius that something wasnt right because if it was propofol wouldnt have been there.

 

[kasume]

Oxman is inconsistent with himself when he says he doesn't believe in conspiracy, yet he is representing Joe who does.

Then, Joe needs to fire Oxman, if Oxman really is working for him. I think Oxman is just saying things without Joe's consent first. I don't know who that man is working for...himself?

Has Joe jumped the boat with Rebbie and Janet, and called Michael an addict too? I don't remember.

 

[princessleia]

Then, Joe needs to fire Oxman, if Oxman really is working for him. I think Oxman is just saying things without Joe's consent first. I don't know who that man is working for...himself?

Has Joe jumped the boat with Rebbie and Janet, and called Michael an addict too? I don't remember.

I'm no Oxman fan but in this instance I think what he's saying is that there is no evidence of a conspiracy, meaning he cannot prove a conspiracy. He's a lawyer, he can't go around and accuse people of murder or anything else without solid proof. Joe can say what he wants, nobody will bother to sue him, but Oxman can't. (And don't forget he's on probation too, one more reason for him to be careful or he could lose his licence.) So I don't know what his personal views are, but even if he believes there's a conspiracy, he's not in a position to say that right now.

Otherwise ITA.

 

[AnnieRUOkay89]

No, what he's saying is to backup Joe's wrongful death lawsuit against Murray and AEG. Oxman claims they knew something was wrong with Michael, they knew he had all these issues, but yet they pushed him to perform and rehearse anyway, although knowing that he wasn't capable of going through with the whole thing.

 

[Dangerous Incorporated]

I'm no Oxman fan but in this instance I think what he's saying is that there is no evidence of a conspiracy, meaning he cannot prove a conspiracy. He's a lawyer, he can't go around and accuse people of murder or anything else without solid proof. Joe can say what he wants, nobody will bother to sue him, but Oxman can't. (And don't forget he's on probation too, one more reason for him to be careful or he could lose his licence.) So I don't know what his personal views are, but even if he believes there's a conspiracy, he's not in a position to say that right now.

Otherwise ITA.

Im in the same boat as yourself.

 

[Jonflip]

Unhealthy?

 

[Dangerous Incorporated]

Unhealthy?

Remember Mike wasnt touring then. When he tours, he would loose up to 5kgs a night. When as thin as Michael was rehearsing for TII, thats weight he couldnt afford to loose let alone over 50 nights.

 

[ivy]

He's a lawyer, he can't go around and accuse people of murder or anything else without solid proof. Joe can say what he wants, nobody will bother to sue him, but Oxman can't.

No, what he's saying is to backup Joe's wrongful death lawsuit against Murray and AEG. Oxman claims they knew something was wrong with Michael, they knew he had all these issues, but yet they pushed him to perform and rehearse anyway, although knowing that he wasn't capable of going through with the whole thing.

Let me add a little bit of legal info here
- first of all nobody (lawyer or no lawyer) should go around accusing people of murder (without proof) because those people can sue anybody for defamation if they choose. That's why you are hearing vague statements from the family such as "there are more people involved" without giving any actual names.
- as far as I know the lawsuit is only against Murray. It would be hard to include AEG unless it can be established that being overworked was a contributing factor to his death and he was forced to do long rehearsals against his wish. (we heard that Michael didn't go to rehearsals when he didn't want to)
- also for this lawsuit 10 vs 50 concert argument is irrelevant as Michael never took the stage. rehearsal work required for 10 or 50 concerts wouldn't differ.

Isnt it odd though MJ was healthy AND terminally at the same time??

terminally ill? how so? autopsy report says all the other things he had wouldn't kill him and not a contributing factor.