Absinthe has also been said to have played a role in the panther dance.
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MJ's religious beliefs.
- Thread starter MJJW
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Absinthe has also been said to have played a role in the panther dance.
144000
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i believe the dividing is done by people. MJ managed to unify people, but a lot of people were good at dividing. i remember reading that in the place where his parents brought him up for services, the clergy were against his Thriller video. he was so guilt ridden, he told his lawyers to destroy the video. but the lawyers went against his wishes. i don't know that MJ fired those lawyers. and i don't know whether or not, that conflict caused him to no longer attend those services..or..just the logistics of press hounding MJ.
*~Tink~*
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There was a story of a devotee who asked Srila Parbhupada, "Is God so powerful He can make a mountain He Himself cannot lift?" Prabhupada replied, "Yes. And then He will lift it."
God is so powerful, the devil only would exist if God allowed it to be so, imo. Now, in Vedanta there is a master trickster who tries to trick those devotees away from God. In the west this is seen as the devil. But in the east, this is God's greatest devotee who wants only the pure of heart and most deserving to reach God.
There are so many ways to see things, just a different perspective can flip it all on it's head.
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*~Tink~*
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:lol: I'll need a link for that!
*~Tink~*
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Awww... I knew there was the upset, but didn't know Michael wanted the video destroyed. Poor Michael.
Glad it was not destroyed and he looked so cute in TII watching them get all the ghouls together, sucking his lolly pop. Glad all the negativity was behind him and he was having fun with it.
That is because the idea of hell as a burning place is not supported by the Bible. Nor is the idea that the Devil is there supported either.
144000
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i don't know. i saw scripture in there, speaking of it.
PrincessMichaela
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These are the things that boggle my mind so much that they keep me from functioning, inducing high levels of anxiety. Who or what did this? How did it happen? How can something be infinite? How can something be neither finite nor infinite, but just be? What is God, or a creator, if there is one? And how did they/it/that happen? Where did I come from? What happens when I die? Why am I here? Why are any of us here? What's is life? How did I happen and what am I supposed to be doing?!
I wish I could just go about daily life, only thinking about this kind of stuff every now and then, but I get into these moods and I'm just not able to ignore it like that. I sometimes feel very very removed from this world and it's the strangest and most uncomfortable feeling I could ever imagine. I wonder how people can brush aside the fact that THIS IS ALL SO EFFIN' WEIRD!!! It scares me not having the answers to these things. I just feel so *confused*.
This isn't a daily occurance, but it happens more often than I feel I'm able to handle. I was raised in a big Irish Catholic family and I wish I could just believe what I was brought up to believe. I began questioning it at a very early age and shortly after Confirmation I started thinking the whole thing was ludicrous. No one knows the answers to this stuff, how can they believe in something they've made up themselves?! That's always been my problem with religion. It's not a theory, it's not a hypothesis, you can't even call it a guess, really - it's pure imagination. We have nothing to go by. While I think there are some nice beliefs out there and some nice stories, I can't believe it just because it's a nice, comforting thing to believe. Things would be easier if I had a set of beliefs, but you cannot choose to believe something. =/
I wish I could just go about daily life, only thinking about this kind of stuff every now and then, but I get into these moods and I'm just not able to ignore it like that. I sometimes feel very very removed from this world and it's the strangest and most uncomfortable feeling I could ever imagine. I wonder how people can brush aside the fact that THIS IS ALL SO EFFIN' WEIRD!!! It scares me not having the answers to these things. I just feel so *confused*.
This isn't a daily occurance, but it happens more often than I feel I'm able to handle. I was raised in a big Irish Catholic family and I wish I could just believe what I was brought up to believe. I began questioning it at a very early age and shortly after Confirmation I started thinking the whole thing was ludicrous. No one knows the answers to this stuff, how can they believe in something they've made up themselves?! That's always been my problem with religion. It's not a theory, it's not a hypothesis, you can't even call it a guess, really - it's pure imagination. We have nothing to go by. While I think there are some nice beliefs out there and some nice stories, I can't believe it just because it's a nice, comforting thing to believe. Things would be easier if I had a set of beliefs, but you cannot choose to believe something. =/
*~Tink~*
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Have you ever looked into Christian mysticism? Mystical approaches are more experiential than pure faith based. Maybe that would help answer some of your questions? And you'd have sort of company in those books when feeling anxious and things.
Indeed. We can't flounder through life without beliefs. But we should only believe what we think is true. To do that, of course, we must to try to learn what's true. Which is a neverending, but intriguing, task. It's no good trying to take a shortcut by simply selecting a set of beliefs off a menu based on what sounds or feels good, or what your parents or friends believe.
When I realized I could no longer choose theism, I floundered until I adopted humanism as a guiding philosophy. It's given solid support ever since.
Humanistic philosophy has provided solid guidance and support to me through life's ups and downs.
So, back to the Bible...
It's a fact, you meanie, and that's all you need to know, so there. I've been here longer than you, so either just believe me, look it up yourself, or shut up. Got a problem with that?
Morphing. Panther. Gene Kelly with a tire iron. Car rooftop burlesque. Absinthe. Any questions?
MichaelYoureAStud
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So is that the reason for his pants being unzipped too??
He shoulda had more.....:evil:
Maybe he woulda gotten naked for us :shifty:
Anyways :lmao:
I have no clue what Michael might or might not have believed.
Do I think he is in Heaven or paradise or whatever you call it? Yes.
I'm not even totally sure what I believe. I'm 26.
For some people, it takes their whole life.
Maybe he found what he was looking for, maybe he didn't.
Maybe he didn't need to look for anything.
He shoulda had more.....:evil:
Maybe he woulda gotten naked for us :shifty:
Anyways :lmao:
I have no clue what Michael might or might not have believed.
Do I think he is in Heaven or paradise or whatever you call it? Yes.
I'm not even totally sure what I believe. I'm 26.
For some people, it takes their whole life.
Maybe he found what he was looking for, maybe he didn't.
Maybe he didn't need to look for anything.
Hell is the grave and where they speak of hell as a burning place it is symbolism. Hell is not a place of fiery torment. That is actually an idea brought in to Christianity from Greek and Roman ideoligies.
Looks to me like he found plenty. This Shmuley thing about MJ's spiritual emptiness because he didn't have a defined religion... we should not give into this crap. We should not dismiss the reality that surrounds us as meaningless and unfulfilling, endlessly chasing vague otherworldly things. We should open our eyes, minds and hearts to the reality right in front of us and really connect with it.
MJ's empty life? He had the love and mission of rearing three wonderful children, the satisfaction of hard work and pride in perfecting your craft, the pleasure and communality of creating and working with the incredibly talented This Is It crew, knowing you're bringing happiness to your fans and being loved by them in return, knowing you have family members and friends who always have your back and you've got theirs... creating new music for a new album in the studio with musicians who worship you... love for and profound connectedness with nature, working with the purpose of expanding environmental awareness...
What an empty, sad, purposeless life. Because Jesus/Muhammad/Buddha and prayer meetings are what matter, not any of this other stuff.
*~Tink~*
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*~Tink~*
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:lmao: :wub:
Michael said he was a prayerful person. Here is the cutest interview...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii6c5yeGWYo
You can tell Michael speaks about having such a beautiful and personal relationship with God. And like so many people pray to ask God for things, Michael here talks about how when he sees beauty he takes time out to thank God.
I love listening to Michael speak about God. :wub:
elusive moonwalker
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depends on which translation of the bible you read.
What the Bible Says About Hell
Quote:
(1) Everyone will exist eternally either in heaven or hell (Daniel 12:2,3; Matthew 25:46; John 5:28; Revelation 20:14,15).
(2) Everyone has only one life in which to determine their destiny (Hebrews 9:27).
(3) Heaven or hell is determined by whether a person believes (puts their trust) in Christ alone to save them (John 3:16, 36, etc.).
Key Passages About Hell
(1) Hell was designed originally for Satan and his demons (Matthew 25:41; Revelation 20:10).
(2) Hell will also punish the sin of those who reject Christ (Matthew 13:41,50; Revelation 20:11-15; 21:8).
(3) Hell is conscious torment.
* Matthew 13:50 “furnace of fire…weeping and gnashing of teeth”
* Mark 9:48 “where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched”
* Revelation 14:10 “he will be tormented with fire and brimstone”
(4) Hell is eternal and irreversible.
* Revelation 14:11 “the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever and they have no rest day and night”
* Revelation 20:14 “This is the second death, the lake of fire”
* Revelation 20:15 “If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire”
MichaelYoureAStud
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If you wanna quote me, at least make sure you read the quote first.
I never said his life was empty or meaningless.
Everyone has a purpose or reason for being here.
Even if they don't feel it.
I meant in the religious sense.
Did he find what he was looking for?
Was he even looking?
Maybe everything you listed such as his children and music was enough.
Not everyone has to have a God or higher power in their life.
Yes, I know he believed in God.
How could I not notice. He never kept it a secret. Nor did he shout it from the rooftops. Doesn't mean he was part of a religion as we see it.
Praying and believing in God is enough.
Going to a place of worship, singing with the choir, listening to the message, doesn't mean you'll please your God or whoever any better than if you stayed home on your knees in prayer.
Taking the time to be with your God is more important than showing your face at a house of worship.
God knows what is in the heart. That's what matters the most.
MichaelYoureAStud
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Girlfriend/boyfriend :lol: I know he prayed.
I've seen all the interviews, read all the interviews, even read all the poems in my first edition copy of Dancing The Dream
Praying to God doesn't mean you have a religion. Just means you like to talk with God.
Religion and beliefs are two totally different things.
I did. I said nothing to criticize you.
I used your question as a jumping off point to give my own thoughts of whether he may have found what he was looking for. And that connected with my ongoing criticism of Shmuley's treatment of MJ as spiritually destitute.
Sorry I wasn't more clear.
Not at all. One's "religion" is simply shorthand for saying one's religious beliefs.
Zillions of definitions below, but you see the word "beliefs" come up over and over again in the many definitions.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title&ved=0CAoQkAE
Rockin.
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I heard this about his children too. I wonder if they will be brought up as JW now though..? Wasn't that what the whole Lester thing was about.. according to Lester he knew that Mike wanted the kids to be brought up as Catholics and he didn't think that wish come true unless he, as godparent was allowed access.. that was his excuse for the mess he created.
Michael though.. not sure. He did talk about God, the Lord, Jesus... and quoted the Bible quite a lot, in particular things which Jesus said... about children etc. He had his questions too though.
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Autumn II
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Michael felt that religions were divisive, and spoke about/sang about that, often. Let's try very, very hard to follow his example here. A discussion like this should be about LEARNING, and here, too, I see a lot of meanness cropping up. Try to be good examples of Michaels' legacy, ok?
With that said, I've always enjoyed the Bosch paintings. He was having waaaay too much fun with that? (If you notice the details, you'll see there is an. . .interestingly placed. .flower????) Just so you'll know, the concept of "a devil" is a fairly modern one, as religions go. Not all religions have a concept of "hell," although they may speak of a "paradise." Or, of different types of paradise. Or, of levels of spiritual development. With some religions, death is seen as finite, and with other religions, we are born and born again (reincarnation) because there are so many lessons to learn, one lifetime is not enough. What's important in all this is the beautiful diversity in beliefs and expression. . . .
With that said, I've always enjoyed the Bosch paintings. He was having waaaay too much fun with that? (If you notice the details, you'll see there is an. . .interestingly placed. .flower????) Just so you'll know, the concept of "a devil" is a fairly modern one, as religions go. Not all religions have a concept of "hell," although they may speak of a "paradise." Or, of different types of paradise. Or, of levels of spiritual development. With some religions, death is seen as finite, and with other religions, we are born and born again (reincarnation) because there are so many lessons to learn, one lifetime is not enough. What's important in all this is the beautiful diversity in beliefs and expression. . . .
No question, Michael was very religious -- he was a theist, either a monotheist or a New Age theist (I think more the latter), who often said he prayed to god regularly.
But not a Christian, I think. I believe he only referred to Jesus as a model for ethical behavior. Are you quite sure he used the word "Lord" before Jesus? I'd be very surprised. He always sounded more like Thomas Jefferson, who was deist, not Christian -- he took a Bible, cut out all references to Jesus' divinity, which he thought had been added in subsequent centuries, and had it printed and distributed to Congress as a guide to moral behavior. It's nicknamed the "Jefferson Bible." If anyone has evidence of MJ, post-JWs, referring to Jesus as God, or necessary for salvation, do give a link.
It does appear they're being brought up as JWs, which I greatly doubt Michael would have wanted. There's no good evidence they were being raised as Catholics, despite the baptisms and godparents, so I doubt he wanted that either. It's true that's traditionally the job of godparents, but as Tink noted, it's become more just an honor for many, and Lester is probably overstating his case to gain access.
But he probably saw Katherine as the lesser of evils, the most loving home he could place them in. I'm sure he didn't bother giving her instructions to keep them out of JWs, knowing that would be hopeless. Katherine will force those children into her own religion, something I believe is very wrong. I believe children should be taught character and morality, and about the religions and philosophies of the world, but not be brainwashed into a specific religion. But it's better than any of the alternative guardians, I guess.
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MichaelYoureAStud
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I understand now. It's all good. :cheeky:
Then maybe it's just me. I look at *Religion* meaning the Church or Christianity, Jewish, Catholic, etc.
I am I guess a ummmm....crap. :lol: I got the word now Pentecostal.
Yeah, yeah holy roller :smilerolleyes:
That's the type of Church I go to......when I go.
My beliefs on the other hand, not so much. There are lots of things I disagree with when it comes to my beliefs and the beliefs of my Religion.
I have a 7yr old son. He goes to Church each Sunday. Same Church I grew up in.
I figure when he is a teenager, he'll choose his own path.
I would never force him to believe as I do.
Go into the world and find your own path.
Where? Where?!
Autumn II
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This is my unerstanding, as well. Thanks for clarity. Check out the lyrics to "Jam," about Michael's thoughts on the potential divisiveness of religions?
I'd like to add that technically, Prince and Paris are Jewish. Debbie was Jewish, and Judaism can be "validated" through the mother's line. Michael, himself, had attended churches (including the Kingdom Hall and Catholic church). He also visited mosques, and Jewish temples. He emulated Jesus as an example of love and ethics. Yes, he was "monotheist" and spoke and wrote about God, often. He was very, very careful not to proclaim allegiance to one, particular, religion. He understood and welcomed the diversity of his fan-base, and he wanted an end to wars. So OFTEN, religion is the excuse for strife (even as it crops up in THIS thread sometimes. There is a lesson in that, if we care to learn it?). Michael was all about L.O.V.E.
MichaelYoureAStud
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:agree:
I just wanted to say I always just thought Michael was smarter than the rest of us.
He knew that God is everywhere and no where. That all you need is love. None of the other stuff matters.
I also think of him as a man of the world not of man.
He took everything in.
He loved to study everything. (Even read a book on serial killers. Man after my own heart :wub: anyways :lol
Belief systems are very intricate and complicated. I know mine is filled with contradictions and holes.
elusive moonwalker
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well debbie ony converted so to the authordox she isnt really jewish interms of the bloodline
theres no evidence of that.her own children decided for themselves one they were grown interms of their religion. jermaine became a muslim marlon a catholic. only rebbie stayed in the faith.they have been spotted once at a KH with cousins(jermines kids) same as been spotted once there with mj.
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