MJ's Team Shutting out & Blockin the Family?

This means totally nothing, they didn't say one thing that we haven't already heard 1000 times. They're as much outsiders as most others. We can't rely on ANYONE really.
Personally, I think that it's a combination of MJ blocking certain family members and him being controlled. I'm not sure if he knew all of what was being done in his name.

I'm not sure either what bone Leonard Rowe has to pick in this fight. His business is done in this matter as far as I'm concerned.

Randy Phillips did allude to having to keep certain people away from MJ, but whether it's just a matter of the sharks keeping the snakes at bay -- that remains to be seen...
 
Personally, I think that it's a combination of MJ blocking certain family members and him being controlled. I'm not sure if he knew all of what was being done in his name.

I'm not sure either what bone Leonard Rowe has to pick in this fight. His business is done in this matter as far as I'm concerned.

Randy Phillips did allude to having to keep certain people away from MJ, but whether it's just a matter of the sharks keeping the snakes at bay -- that remains to be seen...

I honestly don't think we'll ever know about it. It could've been for a million reasons depending on a million different possible scenario's that are too convoluted to ever work out. There's way too many parties involved with way too many stories, all saying someting different and contradictin each other. There's nobody (besides Michael) that was there for everything and that could give the most accurate report. Nobody.

It now comes down to who you trust to be right, and we've noticed plenty of times that in MJ"s world, they can seriously be wolves in sheep clothes. You can't trust anybody. Some thing will forever remain a mystery, some things went with Michael.
 
This means totally nothing, they didn't say one thing that we haven't already heard 1000 times. They're as much outsiders as most others. We can't rely on ANYONE really.

I disagree with your opinions here of their( Joe and Leonard's ) account of what they claim took place from their personal perspective.

Don't speak for me, (in regard to your comment): "we can't rely on anyone really".
 
I disagree with your opinions here of their( Joe and Leonard's ) account of what they claim took place from their personal perspective.

Don't speak for me, (in regard to your comment): "we can't rely on anyone really".

I didn't mean to imply that I was talking for you. It's all just my own opinion, of course.
 
Leonard Rowe said 2 very powerful and disturbing things tonight on Larry King that both corroborates the theory of this thread and gives Latoya and Tito's recent interviews more credibility( not that it needed any in my book), but for others who may not have taken what Michael's siblings had to say as fact based.

He said: Michael wasn't ALLOWED to make his own business decisions by the people who
were controling him
: And anyone who had Michael's best interest at heart wasn't ALLOWED to see him

I believe Leonard Rowe's account of what he says happened behind the scenes with AEG. I believe Michael did hire him to do exactly what he said he was hired for.
Leonard Rowe has nothing to gain by coming on national tv and giving these details. If anything now that Michael Jackson is dead, I can't imagine Mr. Rowe not feeling as if he has made himself a marked man. He can't be doing this to become Mr Popular either, Majority of the fans didn't or don't want to hear how Michael didn't agree to all 50 shows, most fans don't want to hear how weak and unhealthy Michael may have been.
This man, like a few others including MJ's sis, has come forward with a very difficult story for some to swallow. And you know what elese I have noticed? Everytime Rowe is on tv, his story stays basically the same.
Another fan in the "Joe Jackson on Larry King" thread, how they at first didn't believe the negative theories against AEG until tonight after listening to this interview and what Leonard Rowe had to say, they went on to say something about how what he said reminded them of
Sony blocked and controled Michael.
I had almost forgotten about Sony until I read that this evening.
Like I said before in this thread, Michael had a history of making the same mistakes over again- allowing the control ,manipulation and isolation to exist.
 
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That was something that always worried me, the fact that MJ was isolated from his family, friends and FANS who really loved him and surrounded by suspicious people! That behavior certainly contributed hugely for his passing because he was in the hands of destiny and not being involved by those who really cared for him!
I do believe that MJ himself had a small fault on that by demanding his bodyguards to not allow people getting into his home before approval, including family members. ALL those enablers should be punished FOR REAL. They should be arrested and interrogated by police answering on why they were shielding MJ's for. It was clear that his decision made him fragile and unprotected toward those who weren’t in care of his best interests. For me that was a criminal case from the start to end!

Holding a person against their will is called kidnapping !!!! But how do we prove ? MJ isn't here...who will come forth and say so? I dunno...
 
well, maybe I look at MJ's family and his lifestyle differently because I've kinda been there done that with the Jehovah Witness, sheltered life, naive way of thinking once I got into the real world.

I think some of what we hear has a "hint" of truth to it. A lot of us have relatives/friends we don't want to hear from some days, then miss them weeks or months later. People who seem to call us only when they want something or are negative so you basically don't want to hear from them...so you don't.

MJ had the resources to say, I don't want to talk to so-n-so today...depending on how often it changed, probably confused the people that worked for him too! lol

MJ has fired people. Re-hired people. I think he had control, but there were things that did not go right in his life...as well as all of us.

Most of us has had phony friends, who lied about us, lied on us, and even started fights! We even have relatives that we keep accepting back into our lives that treat us bad too.

I believe MJ's life was almost as normal as the next person's with the exception of the cameras and the EXTRA people gossiping. I've had so many people lie on me, I couldn't imagine 200 more people doing it for a dollar or two!

I'm sure he was lonely. We've been there too, but as some of us have seen in videos, he did have good times. He had friends who laughed with him, hung out with him, and then there were some bad folks, but unfortunately bad folks are EVERYWHERE. They weren't just in MJ's camp.

Too wrap this up, I can say that if MJ's people couldn't get in touch with him, I'm sure half of it was MJ and the other half was the people he was around. I mean how many times has your brother, sister, or friend said too you, "You should stop talking to him" or "Thats person is just using you." Sometimes you take their advice, other times you ignore it.

It's all a learning process and God bless MJ's soul, he was learning just like the rest of us.

Sidenote: You know I read in a magazine one of his brothers (I think Randy) was hoping MJ gave him a 1.5 million dollar gift? I mean GEEZ, can you imagine being the Go To guy for stuff like that. I'd disconnect my house phone too and change it up, lol.

Can you imagine your phone ringing and your mom saying, "Your brother needs 2 million dollars, you got it? I mean I know you got it, but can you give it? You know he's having a hard time, the economy is bad...."

No seriously, someone mentioned MJ changed his number to escape the media, because they kept getting a hold of it. He had cell phones too, but kept losing them. I saw a picture where Paris had her cell phone on a string around her neck, maybe MJ should've had one too, but then again, the phone calls would start up again.

Also, someone on here posted that a parent should have a phone on in the house. These days, lots of folks don't have landlines. It's all about cell phones. which is good to have when you're not losing them all over the place, lol.

This is it right here. You totally understand what goes on.
This is exactly how it was.

I've done the same thing sometimes...walled myself off from family from time to time. Then at times spend endless time with them. There are things I do & don't tell my family.

MJ was just like us only on a much larger scale. A scale which can truly alter how you would interact with the world.

Or once again as Rev. Al Sharpton says "There was nothing strange about your daddy. It was strange what he had to deal with. But he dealt with it."

Your post was very insightful.
John Lucas
 
look at it from mj's perspective. when i get a phone call from minnesota or philly, it's never good news. so he may feel the same way about certain members but one thing is for sure, he fired rowe. remember thestatement that 'came' out that he was mj's manager...then it was retracted and we never heard from it again. so eh

but if he was drugged and it was done to keep him under control, which many belieive is the case, then what? every thing he signs loses validity
 
It was just confirmed lastnight on Larry King Live from a long standing concert promoter who himself was hired by Michael, that MJ didn't have options. According to what Leonard saw and was privy to, Michael was being controled, isolated and manipulated at least in the last few months and weeks of his life. No one who had Michael's best interest at heart was "ALLOWED" to see him, according to Rowe. And btw, he aint the only one thats been singing this tune lately.

We can chose to live in denial about whats right in front of us or we can open our eyes and allow what facts and information we have to lead us to the ultimate truth.

This subject matter maybe hard for some to continue participating.
 
oh im not denying that. but we cannot deny that rowe was sued and LOST to r.kelly and prince. he stole from them. upwards in the MILLIONS so what he's saying could be true but his veracity isn't really shinning right now

so if it came from a reputable person, im all for it. but just b/che's a crook in the past doesn't mean he'slying now but it'shard to believe everything he says, word for word

especially when there's documents to show mj released him and wished to not contact him
 
whipser posted this in another thread




Arbitrator Richard P. Byrne, a retired California Superior Court judge, awarded R&B superstar R. Kelly $3.4 million in damages from tour promoter Leonard Rowe, according to a court document filed in Los Angeles Superior Court. Atlanta-based Rowe promoted Kelly's 35-city Double Up tour last fall and winter.

After Rowe failed to pay Kelly several million dollars in tour proceeds that he was owed, Kelly began legal proceedings against Rowe while he was still on tour last February. In essence, Kelly, not wanting to disappoint his fans, performed for free.

"I agreed to let Leonard Rowe promote my tour because he convinced me he was an underdog who deserved a chance to prove himself," Kelly said in a statement. "Like the saying goes, no good deed goes unpunished."

Rowe has also been the target of a series of lawsuits filed by investors who accused him of bilking them out of hundreds of thousands of dollars by selling them non-existent shares in the Double Up tour. Kelly's contract with Rowe expressly barred the promoter from selling off shares in Kelly's shows without the singer's permission.

In his ruling, Byrne determined that Rowe had sold shares without Kelly's knowledge or consent. As a result, in addition to awarding Kelly $3,397,410.38 in monetary damages, Byrne also ordered Rowe to take full responsibility for all the lawsuits.
Source: http://www.ticketnews.com/R-Kelly-aw...rd-Rowe1087402

=====================
Ne-Yo Wins $700,000 In Lawsuit Against R. Kelly Tour Promoter
Rowe Entertainment, which did not answer lawsuit, is ordered to pay R&B singer.

Ne-Yo has settled a $700,000 lawsuit filed in January against tour promoter Rowe Entertainment after he was dropped from an R. Kelly tour in late 2007, according to The Associated Press.

The young singer claimed that he was dropped from the tour after just two shows because he was upstaging R. Kelly; a rep for Kelly denied that claim and maintained that the matter was a contractual issue between Ne-Yo and the promoter. Kelly was not named in the lawsuit.

After Rowe Entertainment failed to respond to the lawsuit, Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Malcolm Mackey ordered the company to pay Ne-Yo $700,320 last week.

Source: http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/159...03/ne_yo.jhtml
 
Damn that's ugly. Why would MJ even associate with that dude? U think his father was pressuring him into it which was why he made Rowe the go to financial guy only to retract that like 5 seconds later? I mean I know he and Rowe knew each other from back in the day hadn't been in touch in years.. Something ain't right...
 
Hi soso def, My prior post wasn't in reference to yours. I was repsonding to the post above yours. I hadn't seen or read your post at the time.

Thanks for that information about Rowe, I already knew about his past. I'm not judging him based on that, no more than I could've judged Michael on those ridiculous past allegations of 93.

About Rowe being fired by Michael after he was hired on by him. I do believe that while under the influence of drugs administered to you by those around you who are trying to manipulate and control you as the theory of this thread is: In that case alone, I do believe in the possibilties that Michael didn't know what the hell he was signing or maybe he signed against his will, I don't know what happened there. But its clear to me, with Michael hiring Leonard Rowe to oversee the money and make sure he wasn't geting robbed in addition to reworking the london tour dates for him, those on the opposite side would have a reason to want Rowe out of the picture. They wouldn't want him looking over their shoulders now would they? Think about that. If you are a crook and you know someone has been hired to watch over you and have the boss's best interest, you wouldn't want that person involved.
A crook would go to great lengths to remove a person from the business especially when that business involves Michael Jackson's Billions.

I'm just saying................................There's a big picture here. If the truth is what we say we want, we have an obligation to look at it.
 
i just feel that if you've lied before, you'll lie again. i can't help but wonder y he's pushing the fact that he worked for him. maybe to recoup monies later? from the estate perhaps?

it just would be better from a more credible source
 
so so def, I understand exactly where you are coming from. It's really hard sometimes to look at someone who is known to have lied in the past and expect them to tell the truth now.
Here's how I look at it: We got 2 different groups of people to look at in this case:

#1 We got those closely connected within MJ's tight circle, they include, security personnel, Dr. Tohme, Dr. Murray, Frank Dileo and Randy Phillips. These people saw him and spoke to him on a more regular basis in the last months and weeks of his life.

#2 We got people on the outter skirts of that circle who claim since MJ's death, that they couldn't get through due to the blocking, control, manipulations and drugs at the hands of those who were around Michael. This list( for this year) include: Latoya, Tito, Joe, and Leonard Rowe.

The handlers who saw, interacted and spoke to Michael on a regular basis know exactly what state of being he was in for certain and with him now dead of a mysterious and unclassified death that state of being can't be a good one, not if they are going to tell us the truth, which some of them are already trying to cover up. Family members and others know why they were getting blocked and shutt out just like alot of fans know. This has happened before, Michael has a history of allowing his handlers to isolate and control him. Nothing new to anyone who has followed along his life and career.

Just because someone is shutt out doesn't mean what they have to say isn't factual. Getting down to the bottom of why they are being shutt out and blocked may add better insight into what is actually going on. Not to mention, following the links of the other people who have claimed the same. Their stories are all interwoven.

Maybe if a more well-respected and likeable Jackson like Janet would come forward and make these claims of being shutt out and blocked, then the world and media would take it as face value but thats not what we got is it. Nope. We got Joe and Leonard and a deceased Icon.
 
well jermaine has gone on record multiple times saying he didn't know mj was on drugs so how does that jive w/ the family staging interventions. family being kept out and family being forced away from him?

so either toy tito and jerm didn't get their stories straight or each have had different experiences w/ their brother.
 
i just feel that if you've lied before, you'll lie again. i can't help but wonder y he's pushing the fact that he worked for him. maybe to recoup monies later? from the estate perhaps?

it just would be better from a more credible source

I don't get it either Katie. He has no claim to stake here. MJ is not here to confirm or deny firing him and AEG has a letter with his signature on it. Saying 'I didn't get the you're fired letter' is not a defense in my mind. He has nothing to stand on.
 
well jermaine has gone on record multiple times saying he didn't know mj was on drugs so how does that jive w/ the family staging interventions. family being kept out and family being forced away from him?

so either toy tito and jerm didn't get their stories straight or each have had different experiences w/ their brother.

Jermaine might've been in denial and not included in interventions, or maybe Jermaine is right and the others are not. It's nearly impossible to say. Maybe Jermaine was too hurt by that notion and didn't want to deal with it, that's why he never saw anything or heard anything, because he didn't want to know about it. It's all possible, and not unlikely when you love someone.

I think one of the biggest issues is that IF Michael took drugs, he was private about it, and his family had to go by hearsay as much as WE are. Even hearing that Michael might be having drug issues is enough for the family to get worried and to try to get answers. This doesn't mean it was true, it just means the family was concerned and heard about it. That's all. All these reports don't make it more true or untrue, it could still be anything.
 
I think the entire family was very much aware that Michael had a drug addiction. I believe that 1.) they were in denial and 2.) Michael denied them access to him which is typical addict behavior. I do wonder why the family did not do more to gain access to him and I am sure there is lots of guilt there.
 
Sifa and Miss Lady both of your post make alot of sense to me and some of what you both stated probably is how it went down.


But I still say, there is alot of talk about the people around Michael shutting out and blocking others access to him and yes, I do believe in the past he himself ordered his staff to screen his would be guest and calls, but that was in the past. Michael showed that he was attempting to reach out for help when he asked his father to assist him in what looked to be AEG trying to robb him of how he was going to be paid, this isn't the first time there has been information out about Michael calling on someone to help him when times are troubled. He called on Randy during the trial, anyone remember that? Regardless of what kind of job you may feel randy did or didn't do, my point is, when Michael has felt his back is up against a wall with what's happening around him, he calls on family or someone to help him out of it. This time, there was just too many millions at stake and someone clearly didn't want any outside sources polking their nose in and helping to rescue Michael. They wanted him and his money all for themselves.
 
well jermaine has gone on record multiple times saying he didn't know mj was on drugs so how does that jive w/ the family staging interventions. family being kept out and family being forced away from him?.

It could be either

1) there was an inverventions without jermaine ( for some reason)

or
2) he properly knew mike had some kind of drug related problem, but didnt wants fans to worry. Which maybe why he wasnt sayingb much bout it.

I dont know, u might find my reason a lil silly- but that is whar i've been thinking.
 
I think the entire family was very much aware that Michael had a drug addiction. I believe that 1.) they were in denial and 2.) Michael denied them access to him which is typical addict behavior. I do wonder why the family did not do more to gain access to him and I am sure there is lots of guilt there.


Miss_Lady, your post is very sound and typical of the average person on drugs, but one thing that has come out, that many are forgetting is this: Michael's handlers purposely administered drugs to him with the purpose of controling and manipulating him. He was being isolated from family or anyone who could help him by those who had the regular contact with him.
If the family felt threatened in an way by these dangerous indivisuals who had the control over Michael Jackson's life and business affairs; they would automatically feel "Powerless" to do anything about it. Remember, they had already tried an intervention and thanks to Grace, it failed. We have learned how family members had tried to see him and was shutt out by the security.
If this is all true, and we know it must have truth to it, after all, our Michael is dead lying in a morgue awaiting burial: Someone of sound, mind and body was giving out orders to keep certain people out. According to what Leonard Rowe said on Larry King The other night, that could not have been MJ not the way he described Michael's mental and emotional capacity at the hands of the people around him. The impression was very clear. Leonard Rowe painted a picture of a vunerable and weak man in Michael. And he made it clear, that Michael DIDN'T do this to himself, which indicates to me, drugs were being forced on Michael.
And if the needle marks on his neck are true, that would explain it. He could not have done that to himself while having an IV adminstered in order to sleep.
More than one person was in the room the night of June 25th 2009 forcing drugs into our Michael's veins in an effort to control him and take over his Estate. It is not possible that this Doctor acted alone.
Someone else knows exactly what happened and who ordered the hit. With Billions of dollars at stake only one person may go down for this-after all he has already seen what can happen if you no longer want to play the game.
 
Miss_Lady, your post is very sound and typical of the average person on drugs, but one thing that has come out, that many are forgetting is this: Michael's handlers purposely administered drugs to him with the purpose of controling and manipulating him. He was being isolated from family or anyone who could help him by those who had the regular contact with him.

I disagree with your usumption
This is just speculation _ no one stated anyone purposely
adminsittered drugs to MJ _ he had freedon to go where he wanted
and he did several times a week sometimes - and he had contact
with fans and many other during that time

If the family felt threatened in an way by these dangerous indivisuals who had the control over Michael Jackson's life and business affairs; they would automatically feel "Powerless" to do anything about it. Remember, they had already tried an intervention and thanks to Grace, it failed. We have learned how family members had tried to see him and was shutt out by the security.

I dont think they felt threatetened just powerless
to get to Michael _ and they just saw him in recent
weeks before this happened .. they didnt have access
when ever they wanted _and I believe that was JOE and
Rowe MJ didnt want to see ... becuase they were trying to
pressure him into the ALLgood concert deal with a J5 reunion
and MJ didnt want to persue that at this time .. he rejected
them ..


If this is all true, and we know it must have truth to it, after all, our Michael is dead lying in a morgue awaiting burial: Someone of sound, mind and body was giving out orders to keep certain people out. According to what Leonard Rowe said on Larry King The other night, that could not have been MJ not the way he described Michael's mental and emotional capacity at the hands of the people around him.

we dont know any such thing

The impression was very clear. Leonard Rowe painted a picture of a vunerable and weak man in Michael. And he made it clear, that Michael DIDN'T do this to himself, which indicates to me, drugs were being forced on Michael.


I personally dont trust anything that man says
it was clear that he and Joe had alterior motives
stating that MJ made Rowe head of his finances :LOL:
and that AEG controlled MJ to remove him _
JOe and ROwe wanted some controll over MJs
new venture - and MJ wrote Rowe a letter stating
he didnt want them in that capacity _ thay had a meeting
with AEG and MJ attended _ they were told AEG was handling
MJs business concerns _ Mj even went shopping with his kids that
day and seemed fully aware and was free to do as he pleased

And if the needle marks on his neck are true, that would explain it. He could not have done that to himself while having an IV adminstered in order to sleep.

We dont know weather he had puntures in the neck or not
and if anyone was trying to make it look like
MJ took an overdose they wouldnt leave incriminating
needle marks in his neck _ .. especially a DR


but the most logical explanation for those would be ...
Another common resuscitation measure is to administer fluids into a patient's veins. This helps improve the blood flow and thus the amount of oxygen and nutrients available to the body's tissues, thereby facilitating the cells' ability to discard waste products. Used for patients who are dehydrated, bleeding, or who simply cannot take adequate amounts of fluid orally, this procedure often includes inserting intravenous catheters with large internal diameters (large-bore IVs), into the neck, arm, foot, shoulder area, or groin. Through these IVs, medical personnel may administer large amounts of fluids, such as Normal Saline, Ringers Lactate Solution, plasma, or blood.

More than one person was in the room the night of June 25th 2009 forcing drugs into our Michael's veins in an effort to control him and take over his Estate. It is not possible that this Doctor acted alone.

this is just speculation and there is no proof or evidence to even suggest that

Someone else knows exactly what happened and who ordered the hit. With Billions of dollars at stake only one person may go down for this-after all he has already seen what can happen if you no longer want to play the game.

There is no evidence at all that is was a hit or premediatted murder
it was certainly neglagence and manslauther on the doctors part IF he
administered anything that was illegal or dangerous to MJ _ which I belive he did
but im not stating it like ist fact .. becuase we know nothing ..

we dont have any evidence to suggest that MJ was killed intentionally
by anyone _ it is just opinions based on rumours and unsubstaniated
TABLOID claims ...

It could have very well been an accident
cause by neglegance .. and why not
what is so unlikely about that theory


Its fine for us all to speculate but
myself I dont believe that theory MJ was intenionally mudered
Its possible sure - but not probable based on the reliabe and
substaniated facts so far


The coroners report or autopsy findings are Not released yet
the person that claimed MJ was balled imanciated and riddled
with needle marks _ I belive that story was already denied
we have to wait for the report

Hi Moddie
I replied in your quote in RED it makes it easier to address
each issue.
 
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gbee, Thanks for your input. I respect what you have said, but:

I completely stand by everything I posted in this topic.

Connect the dots. and Follow the money.
 
gbee, Thanks for your input. I respect what you have said, but:

I completely stand by everything I posted in this topic.

Connect the dots. and Follow the money.

Moddie thanks for being so gracious
I respect your opinion also
I just highly disagree
 
I thought the needle marks thing turned out to be fake.

California Law Enforcement officials( i believe), came out and made a public statement that is was not true, but many fans and some media believe that very first leak of info about the condition of our Michael's body has "some" truth to it, which is why my post said: "if" it's true.
 
well jermaine has gone on record multiple times saying he didn't know mj was on drugs so how does that jive w/ the family staging interventions. family being kept out and family being forced away from him?

so either toy tito and jerm didn't get their stories straight or each have had different experiences w/ their brother.

I truly believe Tito and Latoya did get their story straight. Latoya still stand by what she has said in that interview according to the recent footage of her from a pap.

As for Jermaine, denial and a different experience with his brother could possibly be his position.

I do believe this family and others who have talked about a family intervention, we've heard this as rumor for sometime now, now with Michael's death the truth is slowly coming to surface....
 
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