Murray Trial - 30 September - Day 4 - Discussion

[myosotis]

Yes he claimed it to the dr at the hos.one question. the iv bag that alberto took down. was that found in the blue bag with the vials in the cupboard. or at least found in another bag hidden.where was it documented as been found

This report was from the prelims, if that helps : (11th Jan 2011)
Twelve vials of the powerful anesthetic propofol, an overdose of which killed Michael Jackson, were found in the singer's rented Holmby Hills estate in the days after he died, some of them already open, a county coroner's office investigator testified Friday.

Testifying in a hearing to determine if Jackson's personal physician, Dr. Conrad Murray, should stand trial for involuntary manslaughter, coroner's investigator Elissa Fleak said she found an empty propofol bottle on the floor near the pop superstar's bed shortly after he died June 25, 2009.

Fleak said she returned to the estate four days later at the request of police and searched a closet — which she described as being the size of a normal bedroom. She said she found 11 more vials of propofol, two of which were already open, inside a zippered, dark-blue bag, including one inside an IV bag that had been slit open. The other nine, some of which were open, were found in a light blue and brown bag labeled Baby Essentials, Fleak said.
The Baby Essentials bag also contained five business cards of Murray's, according to the coroner's investigator.
Fleak said she found a host of other types of medication in the home as well, along with syringes and other medical equipment.
"There were so many vials,'' she said after defense attorney J. Michael Flanagan asked if she knew the amounts of medication left.

http://www.laindependent.com/news/l...y-trial-waitress-113095254.html?m=y&smobile=y

 

[Soundmind]

yes I heard her testify to that too. I believe Her that Murray told her that,,,however,,,,its Murray that I don't believe. imo...if he would of witnessed Michael having the arrest,,,he probably would of called for help right away,,,,but he didn't.as we know. That is why Michael's physical condition was the way it was when the emt's got there, Murray let to much time go by,,,and by that point Michael was so far gone that nothing could save him

perimortem abraisons , what caused them ? someone moved him while he was dying

 

[Justthefacts]

He told the cardiologist that was there he walked in and found Michael not breathing

 

[Soundmind]

He told the cardiologist that was there he walked in and found Michael not breathing​

what cardiologist? the one at UCLA?

the story about him leaving and coming back two minutes later founding him breathless was told in his "scripted" interview with the police after he had enough time to create his "defence" remember when Chernoff and Alford were everywhere telling everyone MJ died at the hospital and still had heart pulse ? Wonder why did not he tell them his eyes were open and that's how I noticed something wrong!!! For those very little still super important details Murray will never take the stand.

He told Dr.Rashell he witnessed everything , probably that's what truly happened .

 

[Autumn II]

It's true. Cooper testified that when she asked Murray what happened, he told her that he had given Michael Lorazepam and that he had witnessed the arrest.

That's correct. Cooper testified that Murray TOLD her that he "witnessed the arrest." (not that he "walked in later and found Michael not breathing.") Cooper was a very good witness -- calm, and precise in her answers. As an ER doctor, she's surely used to functioning under stress, and that served her well in the courtroom. Another point she made was that medications in the ER were kept in a locked, password-protected cabinet (implication being, that's counterpoint to Murray's "vials scattered all over the floor?")

 

[Justthefacts]

what cardiologist? the one at UCLA?

the story about him leaving and coming back two minutes later founding him breathless was told in his "scripted" interview with the police after he had enough time to create his "defence" remember when Chernoff and Alford were everywhere telling everyone MJ died at the hospital and still had heart pulse ? Wonder why did not he tell them his eyes were open and that's how I noticed something wrong!!! For those very little still super important details Murray will never take the stand.

He told Dr.Rashell he witnessed everything , probably that's what truly happened .

Yes he told the other doctor who will testify tomorrow probably that he found Michael like that.

 

[Ramona122003]

what cardiologist? the one at UCLA?

the story about him leaving and coming back two minutes later founding him breathless was told in his "scripted" interview with the police after he had enough time to create his "defence" remember when Chernoff and Alford were everywhere telling everyone MJ died at the hospital and still had heart pulse ? Wonder why did not he tell them his eyes were open and that's how I noticed something wrong!!! For those very little still super important details Murray will never take the stand.

He told Dr.Rashell he witnessed everything , probably that's what truly happened .

That reminds me, didn't Murray say in his first interview that when he found Michael that he had a slight pulse and that's when he did CPR for like 20 minutes. I remember fans going WTF at that statement because you're not suppose to do CPR if the person has a pulse and Murray should had doing mouth-to-mouth since Michael wasn't breathing.

If he died instantly as the defense now claims, why did Murray tell polices that Michael had a slight pulse and they insisted that Michael was still alive at the house. Strange, it's like they don't remember their stories.

 

[bouee]

Another thiing that was interesting about Mr Russel's testimony (Murray's patient) is that he had a problem with the anesthesia, while he was in a hospital, and the anesthesia was done by an anesthesiologist, with all the necessary equipment.... in Murray's presence.

 

[xthunderx2]

Murray has told so many stories that even HE doesn't know what the truth is anymore...that is why I think that we need to wait for further testimony from the witness all the evidence will point us in the right direction,,,everything else is merly smoke and mirrors for this case. It the facts that matter, imo.

 

[Autumn II]

HLN replayed the court opening statements last night, and I listened closely, again. One thing the defense said that could be easily refuted is that "Michael died INSTANTLY." "He died SO quickly that he didn't have time to close his eyes." I'm sure medical testimony will refute this. Breathing would slow, then cease, and then heartbeat would cease. Certainly not like a hammer-blow to the brain-stem that would STOP breathing and heartbeat instantly. It's going to be very hard to prove the "instant death" theory.

We now have varying stories by Murray (told to various people. . EMTs, ER doctor, police, etc.) of: 1. Murray was right there when Michael arrested (and why did he NOT call 911?). Or, 2. He was in the bathroom for two minutes. And, 3. phone records and times that will probably indicate that he was gone a LONG time when he came back to find Michael not breathing.

If he was "right there," or "gone for only two minutes," then technically, Michael could have been saved. EMTs were only FIVE MINUTES away, and with effective and continuous CPR, that was a potentially survivable situation. Even given a phone call to 911, which could have been accomplished in just seconds. Therefor, scenario #3 is most likely, that Murray was gone for a LONG time, and when he came back and found Michael, he realized he'd been "down" for too long. The rest was just for show, and cover-up.

 

[Soundmind]

Yes he told the other doctor who will testify tomorrow probably that he found Michael like that.

would u please remind us where that info came from?

 

[Justthefacts]

It was said during the preliminary hearing. Dr Thao Nguyen said it

 

[elusive moonwalker]

This report was from the prelims, if that helps : (11th Jan 2011)Twelve vials of the powerful anesthetic propofol, an overdose of which killed Michael Jackson, were found in the singer's rented Holmby Hills estate in the days after he died, some of them already open, a county coroner's office investigator testified Friday. Testifying in a hearing to determine if Jackson's personal physician, Dr. Conrad Murray, should stand trial for involuntary manslaughter, coroner's investigator Elissa Fleak said she found an empty propofol bottle on the floor near the pop superstar's bed shortly after he died June 25, 2009. Fleak said she returned to the estate four days later at the request of police and searched a closet — which she described as being the size of a normal bedroom. She said she found 11 more vials of propofol, two of which were already open, inside a zippered, dark-blue bag, including one inside an IV bag that had been slit open. The other nine, some of which were open, were found in a light blue and brown bag labeled Baby Essentials, Fleak said. The Baby Essentials bag also contained five business cards of Murray's, according to the coroner's investigator. Fleak said she found a host of other types of medication in the home as well, along with syringes and other medical equipment. "There were so many vials,'' she said after defense attorney J. Michael Flanagan asked if she knew the amounts of medication left. http://www.laindependent.com/news/l...y-trial-waitress-113095254.html?m=y&smobile=y

thanks so that confirms albertos story. was it reported as to where the lidocane was found. wonder if that was found in the brown bag as the medic described it as black?
re the dying instantly claim. someone posted further up in the thread a qoute from some medical person saying thats rubbish as u dont die straight away. its a normal case of breathing slowing then stopping then cardiac arrest within x amounts of minutes.murrays told so many lies i hope the pros can do a good job of explaining them all in a easy to unserstand way.

did murray give two diff stories to the two drs at the hospital? am i reading correct whats written above? he told one he was there when it happened and he told dr thao he came back and found him like that

 

[Autumn II]

Elusive, yeah, apparently he gave two different stories to the two drs. at the hospital. Tomorrow's testimony may confirm. There are now SEVERAL different versions. I doubt Murray will testify, and we may NEVER know exactly what happened? There were also the early stories to police that "phones were not working," when clearly they WERE, and his phone records indicate that.

I've never HEARD of such a case of pathological lying, in my life! Simply the multiple versions of various "truths" tell us that. Although it won't be admitted in court, his multiple girlfriends, baby mamas, and CHILDREN tell us that this guy may not even know truth from fiction, or more likely, does know, but simply doesn't have the moral foundation to know that telling the truth really IS a good thing to do, in life? Those who loved Michael DESERVE to know the truth, but I doubt if we ever will. . .

 

[bouee]

No Autumnn, you'right , we may never know exactly what happened. We should be prepared for that. We have known for a year and a half, since the autopsy report came out, that Murray has been lying. Personnally, I'll never believe him. All that's left now is science and witnesses to give the clearest picture possible.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

thanks. and yeah i totally agree. ive never seen so many lies either and how anyone can defend him just based off that info is beyond me let alone trying to make excuses for all those lies. , and sadly i dont think we will ever get to know the truth either

 

[Autumn II]

No Autumnn, you'right , we may never know exactly what happened. We should be prepared for that. We have known for a year and a half, since the autopsy report came out, that Murray has been lying. Personnally, I'll never believe him. All that's left now is science and witnesses to give the clearest picture possible.

Right, and even with the science, it might never be completely clear. The defense will have "expert" witnesses, and the prosecution will have "experts." The testimony is always slanted in one direction or the other, despite the science. The best we can hope for now is an approximation of the truth.

Whatever happens, the longest Murray will be in prison is four years. ONLY four years. He seems to lack a conscience, although I'd like to think he'd be torturned by guilt for the rest of his life? But yet, watching him in the courtroom, from his facial expressions mostly he seems to look "put upon," as if this should not be happening, to HIM? He just sits there with that sour expression. Breaks my heart that this is the last face Michael saw, in his LIFE!

 

[elusive moonwalker]

I do wonder if his first story was the truth ie diprivan at 10.30 approx. because he didnt tell the police about the phonecalls so he knew they were important to the timing. then when the calls are found by the police the timeline suddenly changes to a time where the phonecalls arent quite as relevent.and where he can create a story around the last couple of phonecalls. although i doubt he knows when it happened hence his many diff stories

 

[xthunderx2]

No Autumnn, you'right , we may never know exactly what happened. We should be prepared for that. We have known for a year and a half, since the autopsy report came out, that Murray has been lying. Personnally, I'll never believe him. All that's left now is science and witnesses to give the clearest picture possible.

YUP I totally agree with you the only way that we may get an about accurate account of what happened is from the witnesses and the scientific results. I watch that show The first 48 hours alot....and they find bodies that they have no clue what happened to them,,,,then the coroner does her report and the tox stuff all comes back,,,,and piece by piece they put the case together,,,,,and most times the body itself TELLS the story of what happens to the person before they passed. imo...Michael isnt any different...from the findings they have,,,they will to the best of their ability be able to tell what happened to Michael before he passed, It is going to be hard hearing that testimony,,,,but it is the only way for us to know. Murray can tell whatever stories he wants,,,but in the end,,,,the reports of what they found and the condition that Michael was found in...will tell the story

 

[indranee]

Also notice the amount of 100cc vials ordered: 40 per order beginning April 28th. Simple math says that CM's administration to MJ was averaging about 1 to 2 100cc vials/ bottles every night. (Plus a boatload of other meds.) This is NOT the usage pattern of a patient who is weaning off of anything. CM's final order June 10th doubled the small vials from 25 to 50 ordered.

Sorry if I sound stupid but have ALL of the bottles of Propofol CM ordered been accounted for, either in the house, or at the source, or in transit? Please, somebody, respond. Thanks.

 

[Autumn II]

Sorry if I sound stupid but have ALL of the bottles of Propofol CM ordered been accounted for, either in the house, or at the source, or in transit? Please, somebody, respond. Thanks.

We don't know that yet -- it hasn't come up in testimony yet.

 

[jaydom7]

Right.. if Murray was trying to wean MJ off like he claims, why was he ordering all that propofol up until June 10th?. Did he even see if propofol daily was poisenous to the body or the central nervous system? did he investigate the effects at all considering MJ's weight loss and his constant complaints of being cold

 

[chanel05]

^^^^^^ Thats what im wandering. Also since propofol really doesnt put you to "sleep", then that means that MJ hadnt really slept for a long time. I wonder what were the effects of that on his body.

 

[bluetopez]

OMG!! is that true??....

Yes. But, CON-RAT MURDERER has told many stories to everyone..which one is the truth? That alone should get is ass convicted, it shows concious of guilt. I mean these people were tryng to save MJs Life and Conrad doesn't even bother telling them what he gave him! Doesn't even matter if MJ was far gone by then the point was Murray was covering his own ass.

 

[Sophielo]

Another long week ahead. This is all too much really.

 

[jaydom7]

Another long week ahead. This is all too much really.

I agree this is so sad and so preventable. When the EMTs said if they would've been called immediately, MJ could've been saved. I cried so hard

 

[bluetopez]

Yep, still weeks to go. But, at the same time it will end this month too, right? How nerve recking, imma be glued to the TV/Internet when the verdict comes. I hope it only take hrs and not days?

 

[indranee]

We don't know that yet -- it hasn't come up in testimony yet.

Thanks Autumn.

 

[8701girl]

Yes. But, CON-RAT MURDERER has told many stories to everyone..which one is the truth? That alone should get is ass convicted, it shows concious of guilt. I mean these people were tryng to save MJs Life and Conrad doesn't even bother telling them what he gave him! Doesn't even matter if MJ was far gone by then the point was Murray was covering his own ass.

Honsetly i dont think he was being honset at all! just seems he was telling everyone lies. I agree with that alone should get him convicted

 

[soulmum]

I want Murray to take the stand, maybe if the defense is desperate it will happen? He would be impeached on so many points!