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Murray Trial - 30 September - Day 4 - Discussion

Vici said:
Nareg Gourjian is tough, attacking and aggressive...
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Not sure the jury will appreciate that 'hard' approach to respected members of the community like firefighters and paramedics....its not a very 'winning' approach. These guys aren't on trial...they are just doing their public-spirited jobs.
 
The Judge was shocked at a member of the defense was on the Today show talking about the case. The Judge also found out about Flanagan talking to the press too. See I knew that him giving Pearl Jr an interview was wrong and the judge already told the defense to shut up. You Also have Dr. Sanja Gupta going around telling what the defense will claim because they told him! SMDH I like this Judge but, this case involves Mj he should have issued a gag from the start!
 
Who's under gag order...?

Ohh I see all lawyers.
Defense spoke about case in public.
 
OnirMJ said:
I think that Conrad & Alberto moved MJ to the floor, just like Alberto said. Because it is impossible that paramedics arrived in the room while Alberto was stiil on the phone with the operator. That was in 12:22 and the paramedics arrived in the room in 12:27. I think that while they (Conrad & Alberto) were giving MJ CPR they tried to move MJ again (legs on the floor and Conrad holding Michael's torzo). And that in that time paramedics arrived.

Also Faheem M. said that he arrived in the room before paramedics and that at that time MJ was already on the floor! And that Conrad asked him and Faheem to asist him with CPR before paramedics had arrived.

I think that no one is lying.
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So you think they moved him to the floor during the 911 call, then in the next 4 - 5 minutes moved him back onto the bed and that's when EMT's arrived and saw him on the bed? Why would they do that?
 
myosotis said:
Not sure the jury will appreciate that 'hard' approach to respected members of the community like firefighters and paramedics....its not a very 'winning' approach. These guys aren't on trial...they are just doing their public-spirited jobs.
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yeah but technically he isn't attacking them but Michael



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what's the source for the gag ordeR?
 
Autumn II said:
When one calls 911, rescue vehicles are dispatched immediately, regardless of whether or not one is still on the phone with them. Very typically, the phone is only hung up when EMTs arrive. So we are talking a VERY few minutes here, or maybe seconds. The EMT said Murray and Alvarez were in the process of moving Michael to the floor, i.e. upper part of his body still on the bed. It's not really a discrepancy, or if it is, a very minor one?
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You're right. Majority of the time Alvarez spent on the phone with the 911 operator, the ambulance was en route. It's totally possible that by the time the operator told him to get MJ on the floor, EMTs were on the property.
 
I don't think Alberto or the emt getting the time order wrong a bit is much of an issue, we have to remember that everything happened rather quickly and it's already been 2 years a few months, so for one of those to mix stuff up is well, idk understandable
 
wendy2004 said:
You're right. Majority of the time Alvarez spent on the phone with the 911 operator, the ambulance was en route. It's totally possible that by the time the operator told him to get MJ on the floor, EMTs were on the property.
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No, not if you look at the timeline. Someone posted it already. There were 3 - 5 minutes between the call and the EMT's arrival.
 
InSession In Session
Judge Pastor has issued a gag order in the #MurrayTrial.
7 minutes ago
 
what worries me is that according to the law the jurors can decide to dismiss the entire testimony of a witness if they believied he lied about something on the stand. The defense will for sure use this timeline error between alberto and the paramedic to get the jurors to disregard all of albertos testimony which would be really bad.....
 
serves flanagan right that he got caught by the judge same goes for chernoff's dumbo partner
 
Erikmjfan said:
what worries me is that according to the law the jurors can decide to dismiss the entire testimony of a witness if they believied he lied about something on the stand. The defense will for sure use this timeline error between alberto and the paramedic to get the jurors to disregard all of albertos testimony which would be really bad.....
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I dont think he lied but mixed the timeline up a bit.
 
Can someone find that interview someone from the defense made on The Today show? I wanna see what was said that was shocking to the Judge but, I can guess. lol I'm sure they were saying mj killed himself
 
Erikmjfan said:
what worries me is that according to the law the jurors can decide to dismiss the entire testimony of a witness if they believied he lied about something on the stand. The defense will for sure use this timeline error between alberto and the paramedic to get the jurors to disregard all of albertos testimony which would be really bad.....
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That's what I was trying to say when I was wondering what that could mean for the trial.
 
souldreamer7 said:
Who's under gag order...?

Ohh I see all lawyers.
Defense spoke about case in public.
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bluetopez said:
The Gag applies to everyone!
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Milka said:
InSession In Session
Judge Pastor has issued a gag order in the #MurrayTrial.
7 minutes ago
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bluetopez said:
The Judge was shocked at a member of the defense was on the Today show talking about the case. The Judge also found out about Flanagan talking to the press too. See I knew that him giving Pearl Jr an interview was wrong and the judge already told the defense to shut up. You Also have Dr. Sanja Gupta going around telling what the defense will claim because they told him! SMDH I like this Judge but, this case involves Mj he should have issued a gag from the start!
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OnirMJ said:
What does "gag order" mean?
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Thank You I had went outside..came back in and all I heard was "Gag Order"
 
Milka said:
So you think they moved him to the floor during the 911 call, then in the next 4 - 5 minutes moved him back onto the bed and that's when EMT's arrived and saw him on the bed? Why would they do that?
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No I'm not saying that. I said that Alberto and Conrad moved him to the floor during the conversation. Then Faheem entered. Then Conrad asked someone to help him with CPR. And that in that time 12:27 paramedics entered the room and saw something (maybe Conrad tryed to move him somewhere else, not back to bed, so he lift him up!) That is what paramedics saw.
 
does the gag order means no live transmission of the court proceedings?
 
It's still early in the trial let's not worry so much about the errors of when MJ was moved or not moved from the bed. The Fact that Murray even gave MJ propofol and didn't even tell EMT's nor Emergency room doctors will be far more serious. Also witnesses that testifled already are subject to be questioned again so this error can be explained I'm sure because Alvarez was a good witness!
 
whats the point having a gag order when the jurros have been sworn in. pointless. should have happened. 2 years ago.

and theres a difference between a defence lawyer doing his job interms of seeing due process is done and making an out and out attempt to get a guilty man of and in the process attack the victim imho
 
I don't know why some r worried , the jury during delibrations will be provided with transcripts of the testimonies that took place and they will look at the full picture . OK, let's assume Alvares can't be trusted and his account of what happened that day was not really trustful, but what if they have other evidence supporting Alvarez account ?


what was the most damagin claims by Alvarez?


Murray performing CPR on bed . Confirmed by the 911 and the paramedic who saw them relocating him to the floor.

Murray asking him to bring a bag so he could put vials in it . That was not true ? ok, has not the paramedic just testified he saw Murray collecting various drugs from the bedroom while holding a bag? was not he asked to confirm that no one but Murray was in the room when they left ? did not the police find the bag in a closet in a different room and it was Murray who told them where to find it? did not one of the paramedic testify he saw vials of lidocaine on the floor? those vials were not present when detectives arrived at the house .

the only conclusion the jury will reach is going to be Murray did collect the vials , did hide them , and Alvarez was trustful . Why r you worried ?
 
Erikmjfan said:
what worries me is that according to the law the jurors can decide to dismiss the entire testimony of a witness if they believied he lied about something on the stand. The defense will for sure use this timeline error between alberto and the paramedic to get the jurors to disregard all of albertos testimony which would be really bad.....
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the medic supports albertos most important comments.
 
Milka said:
No, not if you look at the timeline. Someone posted it already. There were 3 - 5 minutes between the call and the EMT's arrival.
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At work and can't sort thru my notes right now to do the math or search back thru the thread at the mo. Do you mean 3-5 minutes from when the 911 call ENDED or 305 minutes from when Alvarez first started talking with the operator? If it was 3-5 minutes after the911 call ended, that could be an issue. Shouldn't have taken 3-5 minutes to put MJ on the floor unless they moved him back to up to the bed for some reason.

The reason this is important is becuz of the allegation of Murray asking Alvarez to put away vials and whatnot during this time period as well. Remember, Chernoff kept asking Alvarez if the vials were collected before or after the 911 call was made and everyone was like WHY does he keep asking that? I hope it was 3-5 minutes after Alvarez started the call becuz that would make more sense.

And wow...gag order. That serves the defense right considering they were the only ones running to the media and talking smack. You can always tell the side that is full of it...they try their case moreso in the media than in the courtroom.
 
Soundmind said:
I don't know why some r worried , the jury during delibrations will be provided with transcripts of the testimonies that took place and they will look at the full picture . OK, let's assume Alvares can't be trusted and his account of what happened that day was not really trustful, but what if they have other evidence supporting Alvarez account ?


what was the most damagin claims by Alvarez?


Murray performing CPR on bed . Confirmed by the 911 and the paramedic who saw them relocating him to the floor.

Murray asking him to bring a bag so he could put vials in it . That was not true ? ok, has not the paramedic just testified he saw Murray collecting various drugs from the bedroom while holding a bag? was not he asked to confirm that no one but Murray was in the room when they left ? did not the police find the bag in a closet in a different room and it was Murray who told them where to find it? did not one of the paramedic testify he saw vials of lidocaine on the floor? those vials were not present when detectives arrived at the house .

the only conclusion the jury will reach is going to be Murray did collect the vials , did hide them , and Alvarez was trustful . Why r you worried ?
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thankyou:bow:
 
bluetopez said:
The gag does not effect the LIve coverage of this case u will still be able to see it live.
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thank you for explaining - I think the live transmission is important so everyone could see what is really going on and not have to rely on the media.
 
Alberto did not lie. I'm sure 100%. He was talking on the phone at 12:22 and paramedics arrived at 12:27. Only logical thing to me would be that the paramedic saw something wrong (I'm not saying that he is lying).
 
Why r you worried


I am worried becouse all it takes is one single confused juror and we will have a hung jury.
 
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