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Murray Trial Day 21, October 31st - Discussion

WOAH! White just got fined $1000 - committed the offense of contempt of court; Judge will see him Nov 16 in regard to other violations as well. Hmm....let's see here:

$11,000 - $1,000 = $10,000

Haha.
 
according to hln White held in contempt of court by judge..1000 dollar fine.
 
Dr White

Walgren

Dr Shafer provided software for the models to the defense, Dr White provided only computer codes on a paper. Dr White was not aware of the 100 ml infusion over 3 hours before last week.

Lorazepam : 10 am theory, knowing the peak effect is 2 hours, fits nicely with 12pm .
Dr Shafer testified that lorazepam had to be taken at least 4 hours prior to death , then after that Dr White met G. Onellis. She watched the trial, and looked at the Greenblack book, created various scenarios. Dr White says he was not aware of the 10 am theory.

If MJ had come to you asking you to work for him and give him propofol, would you have accepted the job ? :Absolutely not, because of time. It's something that no amount of money could convince him to do, because of time, responsibility , and off label use of propofol.

White's 11h40 self administration scenario is based on a large numbers of assumptions, for the lack of medical records : Dr White agrees.

CM leaving the room for 2 mn : is that the time you tuse for your theory : no .

When did you request the animal study for oral propofol ? Dr White thinks it was after being shown Dr Shafer's report, dated april 15th. Requested the study at the end of april, or may. Didn't directly participate in the study. Flanagan knew a veterinarian who could do it. Dr White just had an oral report from Mr Flanagan that oral propofol had no effect on beagles.

When MJ self administered, it was not in the 2mn when CM said he left the room : it could be at a different time, the time is not established.
When Mj has consumed lorazeapm was CM out of the room also ? No beacause, Mj was walking around. Objection, motion to strike (relates to what CM told him). Dr White assumed CM was in some other part of the room, he understood that there were 2 connected bedrooms, CM was either in a different room or not watching. CM was not aware MJ had taken lorazepam.

Are you aware that CM said he left the room only once ? Yes
So CM was away or not watching at 7 am ? Yes
Dr White says when CM was on the phone, he was presumably away from MJ, because MJ was sleeping.

Dr White's theroy : CM drew 50mg propofol + lidocaine, gave 25 mg, and left the syringe , CM was in a corridor (objection , move to strike, again related to what CM told him).
Dr White felt it was CM who drew up the syringe, dr White doesn't know where the syringe was. DR White thinks that it could have happened when CM was on the phone.
CM observed his patient , then was on the phone, then went to the bathroom. That's 40mn during which MJ could have self injected.

Walgren : Mj injected through the IV port. If the syringe was on the chair, and CM found it in the injection port, it would have raised an alarm ? Your theory is that MJ woke up, and self injected.
So MJ fell back in the same position ?
Dr White understands MJ moved around the house wheeling an IV stand , with a urine bag attached to his leg, while CM was in another rom : it's a possible scenario. Doesn't think MJ realised the potential danger of self injection.

Walgren : another scenario is that CM injected the propofol ? yes , if he wanted to harm MJ.

So putting MJ to sleep was mild/miniaml sedation ? Walgren shows a chart prieviously shown by Dr White : Minimal sedation = normal response to verbal simulation.
Walgren : does it make sense to you ? Dr White : MJ wanted sleep .Providing sleep doesn't necessitate a higher level of sedation.
Dr Whites says that CM signed to be MJ's personnal doctor, didn't expect that situation.

About Previous days (23rd and 24th) :MJ didn't receive propofol, Dr White believes CM because of urine levels.
During the 6 weeks prior to that, CM gave 1 or 2 boluses of propofol , (25mg to 50mg) followed by infusion (propol bottled emptied into an IV bag, has stated what CM told him, again objection, move to strike) : Dr White would speculate that it was minimal to moderate sedation.

What is MAC sedation (monitored anesthesia care) : monitored patient during a procedure , during which local anesthesia , or analgesic are given + sedation, usually utsing propfol. That's a minimal sedation scenario.

Walgren cites articles written by Dr White :

quotation from the article that says that MAC sedation requires the same standard of a care as General anesthesia : evaluation , availability of anesthesiologist, monitoring , emergency medication...

Prior to propofol, benzodiazepines were used for sedation. Midazolam can produce psychomotor impairments.

What is anxiolysis ? : reduction or blocking anxiety. That's also part of MAC and minimal sedation.
Anxiolysis using midazolam would be MAC or minimal sedation, with the same monitoring requirements.

Dr White says that his articles don't mention off label use of the drug, but if propofol is given off label, it requires the same level of care.

MAC precautions are required even when no anesthesia is given, patients can progress rapidly into deeper levels of sedation, from minimal to deep sedation, or to general anesthesia.

Guidelines for Office based anesthesia (written by dr White) :
1-appropriately trained personnel
2-anesthesia equipment
3-complete documentation of care provided
4-monitoring equipment
5-recovery area with appropriate staff
6-availability of emergency equipment
7-plan for emergency transport of patients to a site that provides more comprenhensive care, should a complication occur
8-documention on a quality assurance programm
9-continuous training of physician
10- safety standards that can't be jeorpardised for patients' confort or cost

Should it apply equally if propofol is administered in a bedroom ? I would not do it in a bedroom. Many of them would apply : .

Nr 1 :some healthcare providers are certified in moderate sedation , that would be enough, you would not necessarily need an anesthesiologist.

Dr White eventually agrees that giving propofol in a home requires the minimum requirements of office based anesthesia

Lunch break
 
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twinklEE said:
Don't know if I should bring this up or not as the source isn't reliable, but RadarOnline's saying the prosecution hasn't decided yet if they'd bring up a rebuttal case or not? I thought it was known that they'd do a rebuttal and bring back Anderson and possibly Shafer? Or did I miss something?
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i doubt thats true. the defence case is basically over the pros will know now.and will certainly have their ducks ready if they do a rebuttal.the only things they need to rebute is the last two witnesses or maybe bring in the family whos relative died under murray
 
ForeverKOP said:
WOAH! White just got fined $1000 - committed the offense of contempt of court; Judge will see him Nov 16 in regard to other violations as well. Hmm....let's see here:$11,000 - $1,000 = $10,000Haha.
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LOL. classic
 
wow so he got fined for his 'scumbag' remark today? I thought that date was on Nov 16? Or did he do something else to be held in contempt of court today as well? Serves him right! Haha
 
I believe it was because he mentioned something about propofol and a saline drip with information he got from talking to Dr Murray which the judge had already stated he could not do? Someone else may know better.
 
For talking about murrays conversations with him i presume. if u read the latest articles pastor was very angy about it
 
thanks Soulmum and Elusive, didn't read the articles yet. but will do now. Well I'm glad. to hear about this.

Edit:
Just read the articles, and well can't say I'm sad over this.
I hope Walgren continues to nail him in cross today, and possibly even recross tomorrow, after defense tries to fix as much as possible I guess.

Is here anyone else who thinks Walgren hasn't taken White's scumbag comment lightly?(read it on another board and couldn't stop :lol: ) Dude was so angry and aggressive.
 
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ForeverKOP said:
WOAH! White just got fined $1000 - committed the offense of contempt of court; Judge will see him Nov 16 in regard to other violations as well. Hmm....let's see here:

$11,000 - $1,000 = $10,000

Haha.
Click to expand...

I also would like to know for what, but yes, maybe because of bringing in the stuff Murray told him.

That's the second one. If he keeps that up, he'll lose money, lol. He'd basically be paying to testify. Too funny.
 
ForeverKOP said:
WOAH! White just got fined $1000 - committed the offense of contempt of court; Judge will see him Nov 16 in regard to other violations as well. Hmm....let's see here:$11,000 - $1,000 = $10,000Haha.
Click to expand...
He made the bed now he should be ready to sleep in it.
 
That's the second one. If he keeps that up, he'll lose money, lol. He'd basically be paying to testify. Too funny.[/QUOTE] Love it, selling your soul on any day is a risky business, but on Halloween is a dangerous game Dr White!
 
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Judge: that constitutes direct contempt of court. I'm fining Dr White $1,000. I'll review the matter on Nov. 17. #conradmurraytrial
Il y a 2 minutes

ABC7 Murray Trial
abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
Judge: lo and behold at later part of testimony Dr White says "I would like 2 tell but judge said I couldn't talk" That's a direct violation
Il y a 3 minutes

ABC7 Murray Trial
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Judge: there was admonition not 2 refer 2 any statement made by #Murray other than police intvw. I felt strongly enough I dismissed the jury
Il y a 5 minutes

ABC7 Murray Trial
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Judge just admonished and fined Dr. Paul White $1,000 for contempt of court for violating his order, saying "judge said I couldn't talk".
Il y a 8 minutes
 
I have heard about this scum bag comment several times but I don't know what was actually said. Can anybody provide the quote? Also, when does court start again? Thanks in advance.
 
Milka said:
I also would like to know for what, but yes, maybe because of bringing in the stuff Murray told him.

That's the second one. If he keeps that up, he'll lose money, lol. He'd basically be paying to testify. Too funny.
Click to expand...

He IS being paid to testify! He's a crook just like cm&co. lol
 
bouee said:
abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
Judge: that constitutes direct contempt of court. I'm fining Dr White $1,000. I'll review the matter on Nov. 17.
Click to expand...

Ok, Nov. 16, Nov. 17 ... next will probably be Nov. 18. He'll spend the second half of November in court if he doesn't start to control himself soon.
 
If he keeps doing it the judge can declare a mistrial. Get the feeling they are doing it on purpose?
 
latoyajackson La Toya Jackson
On our lunch break with my father & @Kathyhilton yfrog.com/h8jj4hqj
6xxfn9.jpg

10 minutes ago

latoyajackson La Toya Jackson
Walgren is doing a great job! #MurrayTrial @HLNtv
14 minutes ago
 
I just got home from work and reading all the posts. I am glad Walgren is being tough on this guy. I just saw a clip on tv where it looked like he almost said he would give Michael propopfol if he had the time? Him saying Michael had his own propofol is a LIE! No way. I hope the jury doesn't believe this man. I don't like him or the other doctor not answering and being sneaky. The defense are like cheaters and not at all professional. Walgren has to keep fighting for Michael for us.
 
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/10/contempt-of-court-pondered-for-key-conrad-murray-witness.html

[h=1]Key Conrad Murray witness faces new contempt of court charge[/h]
October 31, 2011 | 1:05 pm (Pacific Standard Time)

The judge overseeing the trial of Michael Jackson’s personal physician said Monday he was considering finding a key defense witness in contempt of court and fining him $1,000 for violating an order.
Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor said the witness, an anesthesiologist who is the main medical expert for Dr. Conrad Murray’s defense, violated a court order by mentioning in his testimony conversations he had with Murray.
Pastor had earlier warned Dr. Paul White to keep from mentioning the “two extensive conversations” he said he had with Murray, information the judge had previously ruled was inadmissible evidence in the case.
Minutes after the judge’s admonishment, White again brought up the conversation before jurors, the judge said.
“That is a direct violation of my order and quite frankly constitutes direct contempt,” Pastor said.

In his testimony earlier Monday, White hinted at information from those conversations -- that the pop star had his “own supply” of propofol, that Murray left a half-filled syringe at Jackson’s bedside -– to a prosecutor’s repeated objections.Deputy Dist. Atty. David Walgren protested to the judge outside the jury’s presence that White was intentionally dropping mentions of information from his conversations with Murray.
Defense attorney Michael Flanagan said White could not be expected to specifically recall what information he got from Murray’s police interview and what information he got from his meetings with the physician.
Pastor said he didn’t buy that explanation.
“Nice try,” Pastor said. "This is so obvious .... He’s trying at every juncture to add in other material. It’s deliberate, I don’t like it, it’s not going to happen again.”
Pastor said when White once again referred to the conversation despite his admonishment, it was a direct violation of his order.
The contempt of court charge is the second for White, who was also chided by the judge earlier this month for making comments about a prosecution witness reported on a website.
Pastor said he would hold a hearing on both contempt charges Nov. 16.
In his testimony Monday, White, an expert on the anesthetic propofol, elaborated on the theory he first gave last week.
Jackson, he testified, probably injected himself with a syringe Murray had filled with 25 milligrams of propofol and laid near his bedside.
He said that when Murray was distracted by a series of phone calls, Jackson woke up and got the syringe.
“It was some time during that 40-minute period where I believe Mr. Jackson had the opportunity and likely self-administrated the final fatal dose of propofol,” he said.
Walgren noted that Jackson was attached to an IV stand and a urinary catheter and suggested it was more plausible for Murray to have injected the propofol and then lied about the amount he gave.
“It’s possible if he wanted to potentially harm Michael Jackson,” White replied.
“If Michael Jackson did it, was he doing it to harm himself?” Walgren asked.
“I don’t think he realized the potential danger,” the witness answered.
The exchanges between the witness and prosecutor were testy at times, with Walgren remarking: “You keep throwing out these kind of rehearsed lines.”
A defense attorney objected, and the comment was stricken.


​
 
So the defence now says that murray was in another room or the landing on his phonecalls and mj wakes up, hears murray sweet talking his cocktail waitress, doesn't want to interrupt as his $5000 a night dr clearly has more important other things to do, so starts rummaging around the room, dragging his iv behind him, looking for something to do, sees a syringe handily filled with god knows what, thinks maybe this might help me sleep, takes syringe back to bed, injects himself with said syringe, somehow syringe magics itself back to where mj found it presumably without his fingerprints on it (can't think of an explanation for this) and has immediate heart attack. Murray makes his entrance.

White is impressive that he kept a straight face when he described this scenario. Flannigan clearly has incriminating photos of white - it's the only explanation that white would ruin his reputation by coming up with this garbage.
 
abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
@
@MUZIKfactoryTWO Sorry, I've just been told the correct date is Nov. 16 for Order to Show Cause for Dr. Paul White.
 
Bonnie Blue said:
So the defence now says that murray was in another room or the landing on his phonecalls and mj wakes up, hears murray sweet talking his cocktail waitress, doesn't want to interrupt as his $5000 a night dr clearly has more important other things to do, so starts rummaging around the room, dragging his iv behind him, looking for something to do, sees a syringe handily filled with god knows what, thinks maybe this might help me sleep, takes syringe back to bed, injects himself with said syringe, somehow syringe magics itself back to where mj found it presumably without his fingerprints on it (can't think of an explanation for this) and has immediate heart attack. Murray makes his entrance.

White is impressive that he kept a straight face when he described this scenario. Flannigan clearly has incriminating photos of white - it's the only explanation that white would ruin his reputation by coming up with this garbage.
Click to expand...

lol...
 
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