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Murray Trial - October 11th - Day 10 - Discussion

ilmjj said:
If Murray were telling the truth about the 2 injections?!!! He has told so many lies why believe this?
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My point exactly. The defense is trying to make those 2 injections as fact. I think the DA really need to hammer home at the end that only Murray has claim to have given 4mg of lopz and no one else. They need to detail all his lies and they honestly asked the jury why they should believe anything he says since he has ever reason to lie.
 
He barking at all the trees in the damn world.

"Patients should be referred to a sleep specialist if insomnia is refractory to standard behavioral and pharmacologic therapies or if the patient's medical condition or medications cannot explain the symptom of insomnia."
 
My point exactly. The defense is trying to make those 2 injections as fact. I think the DA really need to hammer home at the end that only Murray has claim to have given 4mg of lopz and no one else. They need to detail all his lies and they honestly asked the jury why they should believe anything he says since he has ever reason to lie
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no one made them fact but the coroner and the prosecutors . Did you hear Dr.Rogers saying he based his opinion on what Murray said ?!!!!! he is talking about reasonable and LESS reasonable now
 
one of reasons Michael not self adminstered was due to positioning of IV line (just below the left knee)....injection port 13.5cm from tip to catheter distance ie b/w part in leg and part you inject is 13.5 cm (5 or 6 inches).

Flanngan is saying it could be towards the patient...ie part you inject in....and any one could have injected themselves
 
now going on about the factors about benzo and diprivan being given by another. witness said thats based on murray admitting he gave it when he talked to the police..flannagan now going through what murray said and saying what murray gave wouldnt get to the levels that was in mj.

diprivan was given in non hospital setting. insomnia u cant treat that with diprivan? witness says its not right to give diprivan for insomnia. he doesnt know about different versions of insomnia. flannagans trying to say mjs level of insomnia was that bad that it was ok to use diprivan (hes using a fancy name for mjs insomnia) what that has to do with a hospital setting in dont know

3 finding standard of care wasnt met. based on the report of an anethatist not his own

4th finding doesnt support mj doing it to himself info from anethatist. and we dont know what happened so we have to look at whats reasonable. theory is reasonable that murray gave to much.. not reasonable that mj did it giving his was drugged up on benzos and the new dose would have to go through mjs system so quickly that it made him stop breathing in 2 minutes

now mentioning the IV below the left knee. how long was the line b4 it got to the yport? it was 13.5cm from the tip of the catheter to the injection port. is it his opinion that it would be diff to touch behind his knee. he says in general it wouldnt be difficult. and someone with medical knowledge would have to set up the iv and anyone could administer after that.is what the expert said.. flannagan now saying if its done slowly its safe but if its done quickly it can stop the heart. witness agrees.

if u gave 25 mg u would expect any problems to be seen he says u would hope so. (what did he say about mj?
 
Soundmind said:
no one made them fact but the coroner and the prosecutors . Did you hear Dr.Rogers saying he based his opinion on what Murray said ?!!!!! he is talking about reasonable and LESS reasonable now
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So, the defense is throwing a bunch of what ifs and hoping something sticks. Even if something is possible doesn't mean it happened or is very likely. There's a reason why science use the 99.9% rule.
 
re direct having eyes open doesnt mean a quick death. u can die slowly like that? witness agrees. open eyes doesnt mean anything

most of the questions asked of you by flannagan centered around stuff hes not an expert in. witness agrees hasnt published any reports on those types of subjects. hes an expert on autopsy. hes not an expert of diprivan or loraz and how it moves through the body.
 
Dr Thomas indicated oxygen tank was empty when examined....agrees most of questions asked by Flan centred on pharmacology and pharma-kinetic not his area of expertise..

He is expert in determining cause of death...not expert in propofol or loraz and how it works through your body....

Both loraz bottles presented by Flan...not aware were prescribed by Dr Murray..showing him the bottles and confirming prescribed by Murray...prescribed April 28th 2009 had 30 pills only 9 remaining...re empty loraz bottle also prescribed by Murray and fill date was just less than 3 months prior to Michaels death.
 
I am sorry for the question but where the iv was in Michael's leg, was it too far for him to reach?
 
I'm depressed today guys. The picture should not have been shown. Poor poor Michael. I hate everything. How could they've done this to him. Every paper will carry this. Why must every wish of Michael's go the opposite way, even after he's gone? Why? Didn't he suffer enough in life? What great purpose was served by showing that humiliating picture of him? I feel terrible for him. Damn
 
If Michael self adminstered propofol but under same facts Murray leaves patient and no proper monitoring equipment wold still class it a homicide.


Oh god he's back on cross.
 
walgren going through the loraz tablets when they were prescribed and who they were prescribed by. and what was left in the bottles. basically saying mj hardly touched them in the time frame mj had them.


about oral admin instead of iv. lets say murray was telling the truth in his interview. he then goes through what murray claims he gave. walgren says hes left mj alone so mj could take tablets then leaves the room again to go to the toilet. murray has no monitoring equipement etc etc. walgen asks would it still be a homicide.witness says yes. asks again but this time mj injects diprivan would you still call it a homicide? witness says yes.
 
Walgren: short, sweet, to the point, no rambling, hits the nail on the head. Murray is guilty as fuck.
 
Thank god, cross:

People can die slowly and still have eyes wide open. The oxygen tank was empty. Would he agree that the questions of mr Flanagan centered on the area of pharmacology and pharmakinetics and that's not his area of expertise, yes.
Pharmacology relates to what happens when drugs enter the body.
He is an expert forensic pathologist, determining the cause of death.
He is not an expert on Propofol, Lorazepam.
Speaking about the therapeutic ranges, but death can occur everywhere form 1-?? mg, and that is far more that we have in this case.

Showing him the Lorazepam bottles prescribed by Murray. One was prescribed three months before Michael's death and was empty. The other one still had 9 1/2 pills in it. If CM was telling the truth in the interview - 2 separate Midazolam, 2 Lorazepam and 25 mg of Propofol and assuming he left the patient alone to swallow Lorazepam pills and leaving him once more to find the patient dead, without CM meeting the standard of care such as monitoring, capnography, eyc, would this still be a homicide? Yes.

If the patient self administered also Propofol, would it still be deemed a homicide? Yes.
 
I just logged to the web and that pic is all over. One thing that caught my attention. MJ seems to have a wound in his chest. Does anybody know what kind of injury is that?
 
Thanks to everyone who is updating. I didnt had time today at all to follow the trial but Ive gone through the pages and damn that photo is just heartbreaking :(
 
kissybissy said:
I just logged to the web and that pic is all over. One thing that caught my attention. MJ seems to have a wound in his chest. Does anybody know what kind of injury is that?
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It might be the ballon they put in his heart that the cardio doctor testified as being the last procedure they were going to try before they call Michaels death.
 
kissybissy said:
I just logged to the web and that pic is all over. One thing that caught my attention. MJ seems to have a wound in his chest. Does anybody know what kind of injury is that?
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I think it was the balloon pump
 
kissybissy said:
I just logged to the web and that pic is all over. One thing that caught my attention. MJ seems to have a wound in his chest. Does anybody know what kind of injury is that?
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honey you dont want to know all those details. :hug:
 
he says 2.6 level of diprivan was COD. flanangans trying to say u can use loraz for surgery! because certain amounts make u unresponsive to pain. WTF is he on about. whats its gotta do with anything??
 
There was no need to show this picture, it had no place to be seen to the public eye... this was just a twisted sick revenge to Michael! they know very well this picture was gonna be broadcasted all over the world, they knew haters would get a kick to spread it everywhere (ex. paris' twitter) this was totally done on purpose to ruin Michael, what explanation is there for this picture being shown and since when do we see these of other celebs who've passed... let's show amy, let's show farah, go show stephen gately, etc... we live in a sick disgusting world, and I'm starting to believe that Michael is in a better place! Seeing the world we live in today makes me wish I could be with him! I'm sick of all this... why did we have to see this!!
 
Flan is ungodly annoying. He talks like Microsoft speech program and it take him forever and even to get to his freaking point. I prefer the other defense lawyers since they can talk faster. It's like this guy existence to bore the jury to death.
 
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