Murray Wants MJ Rehearsals *Update @266* Sony wants subpoena for footage quashed

[Dutchie]

Re: Murray Wants MJ Rehearsals To Show Warning Signs

because maybe he wasnt. Did he look like he was going downhill on the 23rd 24th.and now u say the dip was killing mj and why would he take it if he knew that.nothing killed him but murray. Why werent ppl doing anything.do what.there was nothing wrong with him.in order to make mj look like some baby who couldnt do anything for himself u are inadvertantly supporting other theories.

I disagree with you.

It was OBVIOUS in many ways that something was going on if you look at the footage from the TII rehearsals...... If you are going to sit there and say that by watching This Is It, you can determine that Michael was 100% 'well' then I am disappointed. His speech was slurry at times (watch the Smooth Criminal part where he says "and when he gets my cue"....) and he looked incredibly frail and insecure in some scenes.

You ask why people weren't doing anything, and that is a good question. Before June 2009, a couple of fans have been asking Karen if Michael was okay. She replied he wasn't but that those fans better not give it too much attention because she didn't want a media hassle (these are not her exact words but it was along those lines). I've read the messages. Why didnt she help him? I don't know and I don't understand.

I believe Michael was not well, but that this was not just a recent thing. I believe that for the past 10 years or so he wasn't well and was battling some health issues. If Michael was perfectly well, a doctor (Murray in this case) would not have been necessary?

I don't want to get into an argument, but I just feel that it's a bit naive to think Michael was okay. He was not. To what extend we will never know. And we will never truly know exactly what went on in his life and what he did and did not have control over. Maybe it was 'just' the fact that the poor man could not sleep and so he was suffering from side effects because of that. Being so extremely tired can cause slurry speech, dizzyness, shakyness and fatigue. I'm sure there's much more it causes.

But fact is, Michael died and he did not have to die if he had been taken care of like a human being instead of a superstar with lots of fame and money.

 

[StacyJ]

Re: Murray Wants MJ Rehearsals To Show Warning Signs

good post dutchie..

You're right about the fact that if everything was ok with MJ then a doctor would not have been necessary. Was AEG aware of the 'treatments' that Murray was giving MJ? why would MJ need these treatments if he was fine and healthy? If a man needs to be put into a mini-coma to 'sleep' he is not well

 

[papillon]

Re: Murray Wants MJ Rehearsals To Show Warning Signs

I think that they push him too much
Not enough time to prepare the show
Too much stress and of course no sleep
And the doctor don't take care of Michael

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Murray Wants MJ Rehearsals To Show Warning Signs

I know whay u mean dutchie yes he was skinny to skinny imo but at the end of the day there was nothing physically wrong with him that would have caused his death.that is the bottom line.if murray hadnt been sat on the phone and had the right equipment.we wouldnt be having this discussion. That is the be and end all of it. Mj had insomnia and murray did what he did to treat it.he caused what happend to mj and any side effects he may have been suffering from.if no one else knew what murray was doing and if mj told ppl he was fine like what he told kenny that im not sure what others are supposed to have done when they were clueless about what murray was doing.mj wasnt a child.if someone said you are to skinny and mj said im fine dont worry then what?

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: Murray Wants MJ Rehearsals To Show Warning Signs

He was skinny according to who? There is nothing wrong with being skinny plenty of people are do you consider them unhealthy? He was skinny but at a good weight according to the doctor who did his autsopy. That is all that matters. He was cold he was not feeling well that is called being human no one feels one hundred percent all of the time. If you wake up one day not feeling well it does not mean you are going to die soon it just means you don't feel well. Not you elusive but some of you wanna be doctors think you really know it all. The coroner gets on the stand and says for Michael's age he was in great health and you still go on about him being sick. And Stacy J, before you talk about someone's body shutting down know what you are talking about.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Murray Wants MJ Rehearsals To Show Warning Signs

Exactly well said. Why some are inadvertantly supporting the defence claims interms of what this thread is about i dont know.i guess its those who support the lawsuit by KJ against AEG? Cause i see no other reason for it.when the facts from the A.R are all there to see.

 

[christy]

Re: Murray Wants MJ Rehearsals To Show Warning Signs

Having a doctor around is as normal as having your personal trainer, personal chef, personal stylist on board.
Prevention maintenance pretty much. Nothing more nothing less.
It does not have to show cause you're sick before you need a doctor.
And the schedules are within grasp of Michael's fitness levels. Kenny Ortega has a stake to see his performance measures up. From the footage of TII, nowhere does it show any hint of tiredness or fatigue on Michael's part. Nowhere near the neighbourhood of a punishing schedule or a gruelling timetable, the King of Pop cannot handle.
Madonna and Michael are of the same age. Both have done themselves proud keeping fit. When Maddy goes on tour, she has her entourage of personal shrinks, dieticians to Yoga instructors, business as usual.
But with Michael,
all hell breaks loose, he needs new hair!
he needs Vitamin C! he needs valium!
he needs botox ! .....blah..blah..blah!...the roof is fallin'.....

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: Murray Wants MJ Rehearsals To Show Warning Signs

Michael's autsopy is online for the world to read, Yet some of you still want to go on about him being to sick to even walk up a flight of steps. We should just disreguard what the coroner says because of what some of you think? I don't think so

 

[Dutchie]

Re: Murray Wants MJ Rehearsals To Show Warning Signs

I know whay u mean dutchie yes he was skinny to skinny imo but at the end of the day there was nothing physically wrong with him that would have caused his death.that is the bottom line.if murray hadnt been sat on the phone and had the right equipment.we wouldnt be having this discussion. That is the be and end all of it. Mj had insomnia and murray did what he did to treat it.he caused what happend to mj and any side effects he may have been suffering from.if no one else knew what murray was doing and if mj told ppl he was fine like what he told kenny that im not sure what others are supposed to have done when they were clueless about what murray was doing.mj wasnt a child.if someone said you are to skinny and mj said im fine dont worry then what?

Oh don't get me wrong, I completely agree with you there. :yes:

In no way do I think Michael died of anything other than Murray's inability to USE HIS BRAIN and treat Michael like he should have been treated. I was just commenting on the other stuff you said, I PERSONALLY believe Michael wasn't well, but not 'unwell' enough to have died from it. Not at all. Sorry, I misunderstood your points there. It's a fact that he died from Murray's actions, there's no discussion about that. With the amounts of propofol Michael had in his body, even a healthy sportsman with a strong heart and perfect body would have died.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Murray Wants MJ Rehearsals To Show Warning Signs

Maybe its easier for some to handle what happenend if they think he was actually ill.rather than it all been down to murrays negligence?. Maybe thats why we keep getting these conments regardless of the facts.

 

[Dutchie]

Re: Murray Wants MJ Rehearsals To Show Warning Signs

Maybe its easier for some to handle what happenend if they think he was actually ill.rather than it all been down to murrays negligence?. Maybe thats why we keep getting these conments regardless of the facts.

Well, no one wants to hear that someone they love and care about has been murdered. But sadly it is what it is, and like Justthefacts said the autopsy is there for everyone to read so it's hard to deny Michael died from anything other than Murray's inabilities.

 

[Galactus123]

Re: Murray Wants MJ Rehearsals To Show Warning Signs

I think that Michael wasn't murdered. He died because of a indifferent doctor who gave overdose of protofol to him. Murray should really put to prison.

 

[MJsweden]

Re: Murray Wants MJ Rehearsals To Show Warning Signs

I Would Like To See That Footage..

 

[Petrarose]

Re: Murray Wants MJ Rehearsals To Show Warning Signs

I know whay u mean dutchie yes he was skinny to skinny imo but at the end of the day there was nothing physically wrong with him that would have caused his death.that is the bottom line.if murray hadnt been sat on the phone and had the right equipment.we wouldnt be having this discussion. That is the be and end all of it. Mj had insomnia and murray did what he did to treat it.he caused what happend to mj and any side effects he may have been suffering from.if no one else knew what murray was doing and if mj told ppl he was fine like what he told kenny that im not sure what others are supposed to have done when they were clueless about what murray was doing.mj wasnt a child.if someone said you are to skinny and mj said im fine dont worry then what?

Excellent!! Now after his death some look at TII with the intent of catching instances where he looks sick. I saw TII on the big screen more than 16 times and I did not see a frail sick man. Surely he was slim and looked tired at times but nothing that would send alarm bells through my system that he was dreadfully sick and I do not think I am crazy. Further, the autopsy report shows this man was not sick. He was killed by Murray's medical care. Another thing, he needed help to sleep and hydrate himself which is why a doctor was needed--not because he was at death's door.

 

[classic]

Re: Murray Wants MJ Rehearsals To Show Warning Signs

Michael was doing some serious rehearsing for TII as well as tons of other stuff for production and unrelated projects. And on top of that, he was being a daddy. Of course he would be freaking tired; there are people just doing the parenting part and the run of the mill 9 to 5 job and they are freaking tired.

When people look at any of his photos and say he was feeling this and that, I can't help but think to one of the last few pix posted of MJ walking with Prince and Paris. Paris was walking a few steps behind and Michael and Prince were talking. On one website, I remember this person posting this sad tale of how ignored Paris must be and that Michael probably only gave Prince attention because he was a boy and Paris looked so sad and lonely, etc. Now we all know that Paris obviously did not feel ignored by her daddy; you don't get that kind of defense and devotion from a daughter that she has shown when you are ignored. But, it goes to show how the viewer's perceptions is what makes them "see" something in a video or photo and not necessarily the truth of the matter.

I don't think that it has yet been determined or stated why Michael was feeling as he was the day that Ortega described him being sick. I could be wrong and have missed the explanation. If it hasn't, then basically people are assuming a link that may or may not have been connected to the use of propofol.

 

[bluetopez]

Re: Murray Wants MJ Rehearsals To Show Warning Signs

The prosecution want and will show parts of This Is It to PROVE MJ was not sick and dieing! Yet, some fans want to argue and say he was sick?! WTF?!

Ya, do know that Murray/defense would just love for u to believe that, right!? SMH

 

[Diplomate]

Re: Murray Wants MJ Rehearsals To Show Warning Signs

The bastard doesn't have defence, so his team try everything...but at the end, it's the same result, he's a fake doctor, who wanted just $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and killed someone because of these mistakes.

 

[twinklEE]

Re: Murray Wants MJ Rehearsals To Show Warning Signs

Excellent!! Now after his death some look at TII with the intent of catching instances where he looks sick. I saw TII on the big screen more than 16 times and I did not see a frail sick man. Surely he was slim and looked tired at times but nothing that would send alarm bells through my system that he was dreadfully sick and I do not think I am crazy. Further, the autopsy report shows this man was not sick. He was killed by Murray's medical care. Another thing, he needed help to sleep and hydrate himself which is why a doctor was needed--not because he was at death's door.

agree with you, people are always gonna see what they want to see, so if people here see a sick man with a slurry speech, they do so b./c they want to.

 

[Resa]

Re: Murray Wants MJ Rehearsals To Show Warning Signs

agree with you, people are always gonna see what they want to see, so if people here see a sick man with a slurry speech, they do so b./c they want to.

I didn't see a frail, sick man when I watched TII either. Michael was too thin IMO, but he didn't look sick or frail. I really wonder if the people who think that he looked sick would have the same opinion if Michael had lived.

 

[Petrarose]

Re: Murray Wants MJ Rehearsals To Show Warning Signs

Michael was doing some serious rehearsing for TII as well as tons of other stuff for production and unrelated projects. And on top of that, he was being a daddy. Of course he would be freaking tired; there are people just doing the parenting part and the run of the mill 9 to 5 job and they are freaking tired.

When people look at any of his photos and say he was feeling this and that, I can't help but think to one of the last few pix posted of MJ walking with Prince and Paris. Paris was walking a few steps behind and Michael and Prince were talking. On one website, I remember this person posting this sad tale of how ignored Paris must be and that Michael probably only gave Prince attention because he was a boy and Paris looked so sad and lonely, etc. Now we all know that Paris obviously did not feel ignored by her daddy; you don't get that kind of defense and devotion from a daughter that she has shown when you are ignored. But, it goes to show how the viewer's perceptions is what makes them "see" something in a video or photo and not necessarily the truth of the matter.

I don't think that it has yet been determined or stated why Michael was feeling as he was the day that Ortega described him being sick. I could be wrong and have missed the explanation. If it hasn't, then basically people are assuming a link that may or may not have been connected to the use of propofol.

BRILLIANT--the bolded. This is something we have been talking about since 09. When people look at TII they bring to the analysis of what they see, their own insecurities, trash ideas from tabloids, life experiences, etc., which cloud their view of what they see. Many should simply sit back and enjoy what Michael was creating in that documentary and limit the over-analysis. It is sad that many things connected to Michael turn lay people/fans into psychoanalysts, psychiatrists, drug/family/grief counselors. Think, if strangers begin to analyze some of us without first having detailed conversations with us, I wonder what they will turn up.

I know the picture of which you speak, and when I saw it, the only thing that came into my mind was that dad and son were having a deep discussion and Paris was in front walking on her merry way. However, it is the trend to see something negative in many things--what a sad way to live one's life.

 

[Ashtanga]

Re: Murray Wants MJ Rehearsals To Show Warning Signs

On one website, I remember this person posting this sad tale of how ignored Paris must be and that Michael probably only gave Prince attention because he was a boy and Paris looked so sad and lonely, etc.

Wow, I can not believe how anyone could have thought this way. Sad.

 

[mjjmsc]

Re: Murray Wants MJ Rehearsals To Show Warning Signs

they are completly crazy, Michael was happy, maybe a little tired which was normal for his age...Murray didn't take care of him and after he just killed him and now he doesn't want to take responsibility for his own actions!

 

[elusive moonwalker]

The prosecution want and will show parts of This Is It to PROVE MJ was not sick and dieing! Yet, some fans want to argue and say he was sick?!
Ya, do know that Murray/defense would just love for u to believe that, right!? SMH

yeah maybe they should offer themselves as witnesses for the defence

 

[Gregershansen]

Re: Murray Wants MJ Rehearsals To Show Warning Signs

Just go ahead and show This Is It rehearsals, Michael kicked ass!!!

 

[kissybissy]

Re: Murray Wants MJ Rehearsals To Show Warning Signs

It was said that footage of the rehearsals will be shown. Earth song is one of them. I assume not those used on This is It, cause those are edited to show only the best parts. I read somewhere, I don't remember where, that Karen Faye said he had problems climbing up a ramp. If that is true, I mean, if there is such footage, Murray's lawyers will be avid to show that.

 

[Ashtanga]

Re: Murray Wants MJ Rehearsals To Show Warning Signs

I read somewhere, I don't remember where, that Karen Faye said he had problems climbing up a ramp.

Karen Faye is not a reliable source of information. :fear:

 

[StacyJ]

Re: Murray Wants MJ Rehearsals To Show Warning Signs

Karen is definitely not reliable.. and my question is if she noticed her friend of 30 years couldn't climb the ramp, looked anorexic according to her, and out of it, why the hell didn't she do anything? If she thought MJ was sick and could die at any moment according to her why didn't she take that extra step and take him to the hospital or something? Her, Ortega, Phillips and Mike Bush could've carried Mike with one hand and forced him in the hospital.. They all did nothing for a man they claimed they loved.

 

[Ashtanga]

Re: Murray Wants MJ Rehearsals To Show Warning Signs

Karen is definitely not reliable.. and my question is if she noticed her friend of 30 years couldn't climb the ramp, looked anorexic according to her, and out of it, why the hell didn't she do anything? If she thought MJ was sick and could die at any moment according to her why didn't she take that extra step and take him to the hospital or something? Her, Ortega, Phillips and Mike Bush could've carried Mike with one hand and forced him in the hospital.. They all did nothing for a man they claimed they loved.

Exactly! If it were me, if I noticed something wrong, I would not think twice to help my dear friend. I would have done something immediately.

 

[MIST]

If there would be footage of this is it where Michael looks sick and tired, wouldn´t it show that Murray didn´t take care of his patient?

 

[StacyJ]

If there would be footage of this is it where Michael looks sick and tired, wouldn´t it show that Murray didn´t take care of his patient?

Exactly... If there is footage of that it would be devastating to Murray. Murray should've been intervening if he noticed his patient was not rehearsing well and looked worn out and tired. Murray being the doctor, could've stopped rehearsals and the tour by giving doctor's orders that MJ was not ready or fit to do this yet. Everything could've been stopped.. Instead Murray said MJ was fine and healthy and could rehearse to everyone around, even the insurance agency. While MJ was lying there either dead or in a propofol coma, Murray's ass was on the phone telling the insurer that MJ was fine and healthy and the rumors about his health were not true.