New Documentary - Michael Jackson Was Your Jesus

As far as I am concerned, I from the beginning of this thread thought of an allegory.

^^^I did, too, but I wanted to see if I can find the filmmaker posting something himself to that degree. The trailer posted by the OP was clearly baiting.

Which always makes me wonder- with the literal interpretation, you don't see a lot of "Song of Solomon" being read in churches in a literal sense...beautiful and poetic- and sensual, to say the least.

Could be the headline for the "Michael Jackson Tattoo" thread.
"Place me like a seal over your heart, like a seal on your arm. For love is as strong as death, its jealousy as enduring as the grave. Love flashes like fire, the brightest kind of flame."

^^^Now that's an oratorio I'd love to hear.
 
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Michael Jackson is who I base my behaviour upon, with his grace and kindness. I think he was an Angel, but not Jesus.
 
Here is something that could be interesting and fit the thread, since we're mixing music, songs, artists and religions.

This is a piece of Mozart's unfinished Requiem played by 150 musicians, sometimes using some oriental instruments. The composition starts with "dhikr", which is muslim's way of invocating God concentrating on their breath mixed with Andalus poem sung in Arabic. Then step by step it evolves into a beautiful solo sung by a 12-year-old girl. After that you hear oriental instruments and an 8-year-old girl's beautiful solo in Coptic. Towards the end you hear a church chorus singing in Coptic but using ancient melody from the pharaohs of the ancient Egypt. It's a pure beauty!


[youtube]BGZHlF3bbb0[/youtube]


Hereunder you can hear similar productions based on Mozart's compositions from the same CD, pure beauties:

[youtube]Uz6LufI51NU&feature=fvst[/youtube]

[youtube]mnEBQxEsCiw[/youtube]
 
I just wonder if someone like Michael had lived in ancient times if his songs and example of philanthropy would be considered as divine's intervention. In other words, if a modern day prophet or messenger showed up today, how would we recognize him? Through his deeds? After all, Michael did do some "miracles", he did have positive impact on some sick children. The Avrizo kid, wasn't he diagnosed with cancer and healed in Neverland? ;)

I think Michael was so charismatic that if he had lived in ancient times he would have easily get follwers and eventually could have become a "Jesus" - someone around whom myths would have been built after his death by his followers and who eventually could have become a "god".
 
respect77;3602866 said:
I think Michael was so charismatic that if he had lived in ancient times he would have easily get follwers and eventually could have become a "Jesus" - someone around whom myths would have been built after his death by his followers and who eventually could have become a "god".

A friend had shown me an article written in German that actually dealt precisely with that question. It's actually an interesting read concerning the things that are obviously on the minds of contemporaries, giving a the whole dynamics a good second look.

I found it interesting enough in the way it gives insides into the heads of contemporaries.
One just have to have a strong stomach to ignore some of the willful ignorance and some of the way off commentary relating to his charity, "shopping habits" and the usual "abused his formerly pleasant fac" nonsense etc. Just read around that stuff, I don't agree with a lot myself.


Here's the translation.(and the original for those who'd like it)

The cult of Michael Jackson

A spiritual Pop-Heaven

A cult is forming around the deceased "Fairytale King of Pop" Michael Jackson- a cult, that exceeds the usual star adoration and devotion to a star.
Many signs point toward the self-perception of the artist himself as a spiritual master and world prophet. Are we actually in the early formative stages of a new religion?

"The founding of a new religion is the best proof that religion isn't real."
A mysterious sentence from Peter Sloterdijks new book "You have to transform your life".
Perhaps the following is meant: Those, who are the leading forces in the creation of a new cult, lose a lot of the awe-inspiring reverence that one tends to bring to the table when dealing with older religions, veiled by the grace of historical distance. One can observe first hand how exaggeration, the re-writing of history and the building of myths happens. Whenever a new religion is forming- a closer look is warranted. That closer look will enable one to learn about traditional religions.

Currently we can observe the birth of a new cult: The cult around the death and the transfiguration of Michael Jackson. Two near-religious cults of a global scale happened in our generation.
One such cult dealt with Michael's 'predecessor' Elvis Presley, who passed away in 1977.

The second cult would have to be the circus around Princess Diana, who passed away in 1997 after a car accident.

Elvis' former living quarters of "Graceland" turned into a pilgrimage site soon after his death. Talk about mysterious "Elvis-sightings" erupted and a "Church of Elvis" was founded in all seriousness. The King was said to have been still alive underground and the public took to projecting characteristics of "The Mother of God" onto Princess Diana- praying to her, miracles were reported and the Christa-Falk Publishing House published a book containing Diana's messages from the Great Beyond, "Green Hill. Conversations with the Queen of Hearts".

The rumors of murder that do not fade away

All signs seems to indicate similar phenomena will occur in regards to Michael Jackson.
Maybe some of them will even seem 'worse', because Michael is more mysterious than Elvis, a "Ludwig II", for a global congregation of admirers. The following saying has been attributed to the Bavarian King, and the builder of Neuschwanstein: "An eternal riddle shall I remain to myself and to others."

Apparently both seem to be individuals, who didn't quite fit the mold that is so characteristic of this ordinary world. All conditions are favorable that the Fairytale King of Pop will forever remain a such riddle. Rumors that he was murdered, will neither be confirmed, nor will they ever fade away- a fruitful soil for such myth.
Jackson consciously nourished his own myth- in sharp contrast to James Dean, or George Harrison, whose cultish followings were an unavoidable and unintended side effect of their popularity.
Jackson often left traces in the body of his work that the global congregation of mourners is able to reference. The outline of 'spiritual teachings' thus becomes visible, that could eventually serve as the new Catechism of Jacksonism. "Heal the World, make it a better place'- being the rock of the foundation.
The ecological message of "What have we done to the world? Can't you hear its screams?"
A flaming plea against racism: "If you feel to be my brother, it doesn't matter if you're black or white". And of course the mantra of US-American mental self-improvement: "If you are looking for change, best start with yourself."
When interpreting the message from "Man in the Mirror" in a shallow manner, the effect will guarantee many therapy-clients on the couch- but only few true revolutionaries. Perhaps this is the reason for the song being quoted with such frequency.

Jackson's requiem (the modern day version of the lamentation over the death of Jesus Christ), that has been heard during his memorial was aptly "Gone too soon". And let us not forget Michael's message to those left behind: "You are not alone, I am here with you." Even realistic TV documentaries use "You are not alone" with intended ambiguity: The great deceased comforting from the Great Beyond.
"Behold, I am with you always, even to the end."

The diligent tradition of the artist to use a larger-than-life self portrayal intermingles with the seemingly unending willingness of the fans to understand each uttering of the Master as meaningful. Even Jackson singing "I want my privacy, yeah, yeah" on his last CD is interpreted as brave exposure of oneself and as a subtle media critique. Looking at the issue realistically the final tally of 'meaningful statements' by Michael Jackson seems rather slim- at least compared to great writers such as Bob Dylan, John Lennon, or Reinhard Mey. [German singer-songwriter]

"I love you from the abyss of my heart"

But despite all of this- Michael Jackson's global mission of salvation called "Heal the World" does not seem to be a mere pose, a meaningless gesture- a fact which becomes obvious in all interviews that allow for his gentle shyness to break through. He seems to house these two faces and they are part of what fascinates.

"I love you all from the abyss of my heart" he breathed into the microphone- and followed up this declaration by painting the town red to the sounds of "Dirty Diana". Maybe this was a great way to chisel away his shadow, that must have been gigantic- if one were to measure it by the light the Prophet of Pop wanted to pour out over the world.
Without a doubt the creator of "Thriller" didn't just accept to be adored by his fans as a guru- he encouraged it. His priestly functions though he fulfilled most efficiently in the way of the dancing shaman. As the dancing shaman he led those in his custody into a type of trance by way of dance and rhythm and enabling them to experience something akin to religious ecstasy. Even if one is not a Jackson devotee imbued with passion, one can catch a glimpse of that ecstasy when observing taped live concerts.

Reinhard Mey wrote a wonderful song containing the phrase : "And there I praise a real piece of music, made by hand, brought into thought by a real human with a head." Michael Jackson never wanted to be 'just an ordinary human' in the sense of a Reinhard Mey, who played hand made music. From the very beginning he meant to be more perfect than just a mere human. He invented a dance that floated in its dynamic until it almost appeared superhuman. He sang with a voice that appeared both unnaturally high and agile. He remodeled his face until he featured an appearance that no human seemed to have on this earth- prior to his existence. He was the "Rock & Roll Uberhuman" (as he was called in a song by the band "Aerzte" [German punk band].
He tried to project the inner image of himself, sometimes violently, by abusing his formerly pleasant and likeable face- projecting the "White Knight" with the eyes of a beautiful woman.

He continuously sought to associate himself with the largest names: Santana, Chaplin, Spielberg, Elisabeth Taylor, Naomi Campbell, Marlon Brando, Martin Luther King, Princess Diana, having collaborated with Paul McCartney for two songs. And, the one marrying the daughter of the King- who else can he be BUT the crown prince, the Prince Royal, Elvis' Successor Elect?
It almost seems as if he planned the fathering of a child of highest pop nobility through Lisa-Marie Presley, but this actually remains speculation. But it is without a doubt that he remains as one of the most driven bar none when it came to seeking the title of "The biggest and the best".
The shy and reserved Michael is only half of the truth. His contradictory message to the world said "Everyone look at me, I am so shy."
His monumental promotion trailer for the album "HIStory" remains unforgettable to me, revealing a monstrous statue that is being illuminated by helicopters, accompanied by the joyful cheers and screams of thousands of people. What is the attitude and state of mind of someone who comes up with such material of oneself?

The loneliest person on the face of the earth

There are many of these contradictions. Jackson continues to be hailed as the "loneliest person on the face of the earth" despite everyone knowing that he originated from a loving large family and as having lived with three children. He is being portrayed as the unhappy prince in his golden cage.
But isn't it very likely that there also was much joy in Jackson's life? The most obvious ecstasy on stage, the fun of excessive shopping and being able to live out absolutely every childhood dream, the love and adoration of the fans. Why is there such focus on the tortured man?
It is as if all those reports about unhappy rich people and eccentrics seek to transport only one message: "There, do you see it now? Being rich and famous doesn't make anyone happy, so be happy with your quiet, little life. Don't even try to make something different out of your life- you've seen what results that can yield."
Another favorite stereotype seems to be that of the charitable philanthropist. It has been well documented that the "Heal the World" prophet has purchased several vases at a price of a quarter of a million dollars together with more costly pieces. One cannot find a better example for the absurdity of unspeakable wealth and for the tendencies of many financially well off people to fool themselves.

The story of the transfiguration of Michael Jackson of course contains a "Passion". And you will find villains that are interwoven with the story of his life, they way Pontius Pilate found his way into the Apostles' Creed. The stern father Joseph Jackson for example, or the District Attorney Thomas Sneddon, who persecuted him on allegations of child abuse. Among the dark forces in the life of the prophet one will also find the press, seeking to tear him to pieces and finally both those that didn't understand him, as well as those who believed in him. The myth that is now taking shape carries the name "And the light shineth in darkness and the darkness comprehended it not."
Michael, son of Joseph, left many marks in the body of his work, that seem to play on the familiarity with Jesus Christ.
As it was said in "Bad". "You're throwin' stones" [to hide your hands] and "If you don't like what I'm sayin' then won't you slap my face". (Jesus answered: ...prove it, that it was bad, but I have spoken rightly, why do you strike me?)
Remarkably often Jackson was being photographed with his arms extended, the gesture of the Crucifixion. The video to "They don't care about us" showcases the statue of Jesus Christ in Rio [de Janeiro, Brazil], before cutting into the slums, where Jackson appears as the Dancing Redeemer.

Angel and extraterrestrial

Other famous gestures by Jackson include that of the angel (in the video to "You are not alone" he can be seen complete with angel wings) and that of the alien, the E.T.
He set foot onto the stage in a silvery space suit, stepping out of an UFO; the UFO's landing approach being broadcast as a movie. As if this performance were to say "My kingdom is not of this world", as well as
[From heaven above ,I come.]
I bring you good new tidings, Of glad tidings I bring so many
[Text: Martin Luther, 1534, German Christmas Carol "Vom Himmel hoch, da komm' ich her].

Michael Jackson also was a Knight of the Holy Grail, according to a triptych commissioned by Jackson that was exhibited on his Neverland Ranch. Michael in heroic pose in golden armor, Michael being knighted. Complete with a poem that is being heralded as Jackson's, but that seems to be a carbon copy of the Hindu Bhagavad Gītā:

I am the thinker, the thinking, the thought
I am the seeker, the seeking, the sought
I am the dew drop, the sunshine, the storm
I am the phenomenon, the field, the form
I am the desert, the ocean, the sky
I am the Primitive Self in you and I

Here we have God himself speaking as his personal appearance in form of Michael Jackson, who takes the place of Krishna. Even the design that Jackson used to model himself after, seems to be imitating the appearance of the deity Krishna within Hindu art forms: Narrow nose, expressive female eyes and long black hair.

But is it an exaggeration to claim that the new religion of "Michael Jackson" is in its formative stages?
Sure, we are in the comparatively early stages of this development and nobody can predict the future. It is also nothing new that pop stars are being adored in cultish fashion.
But here we are dealing with something of a completely different dimension- when compared to the screaming teenagers one can find at every "Tokyo Hotel" concert.

A formal declaration of Sainthood will most likely never take place- but his inofficial Beatification is already in full swing. Many laudators speaking at his memorial already located the deceased in heaven, where he is looking down on his loved ones who stayed behind. Stevie Wonder even speculated that God brought Michael back, because he needed him urgently. (note: God needs Michael, not the other way around)

Michael Jackson was a spiritual person

A yet to be founded Jackson religion gathers support from the hardcore esotericists. One channeling from the supposed alien being "Kryon" thus states:
"Isn't it possible that a very mighty being might have been behind this rather crazy appearing human Michael Jackson?
What energy enticed the masses to cheer in such joy? What power enabled this very gentle and tender human being to move such mountains?
What divine energies catapulted the Hearts of Men into such ecstasy? I may assure you that we are dealing with the soul of one of the Greats."

When even the angels accept Michael as one of them- how can we earthly ones still linger in doubt?

Without a doubt Michael Jackson was a highly spiritual being who sought out the company of other esotericists. Uri Geller, who at one time was friends with Jackson spoke the following words to a tabloid magazine: "I am convinced that he is in heaven. Whenever we spoke about the afterlife Michael would say that he believes that the soul is indestructible. Somewhere on the other side Michael's star is shining brightly between those stars such as Elvis Presley, John Lennon and Frank Sinatra." Geller, whose claim to fame are psychic abilities- even claims to have felt Michael's energetic blue print: "Whenever I am in a spot in my house where Michael used to be- or whenever I sit where he used to sit- I still feel something there, an energy."

Such witness testimony can be found by the dozen, especially online, even if written by less publicly known figures.
The commentator of one youtube video wrote: "Michael was an angel, sent to us by God..., to open our eyes and to give us the opportunity to change ourselves and to heal this planet. The time has come to heal God's planet."
Can we categorically deny that Jackson was a chosen one, an enlightened one? Nobody can look into another human being. If Michael Jackson felt love as often as he said "I love you"- then he must have realized the rare ability of universal love.

It is also undeniable that he made remarks that seem to be indicative of enlightenment. (or that he at the very least wanted to convey just that impression on the outside).
His volume of poetry by the name of "Dancing the Dream" is full of spiritual texts.

...My songs and dances are outlines for Him to come in and fill. I hold out the form. She puts in the sweetness.
I've looked up at the night sky and beheld the stars so intimately close, it was as if my grandmother had made them for me. "How rich, how sumptuous," I thought. In that moment I saw God in His creation. I could as easily have seen Her in the beauty of a rainbow, the grace of a deer bounding through a meadow, the truth of a father's kiss. But for me the sweetest contact with God has no form. I close my eyes, look within, and enter a deep soft silence. The infinity of God's creation embraces me. We are one."

The artist said about the process of inspiration that the secret to writing a song simply consists of actually not writing. That stepping aside and allowing the room for God to fill it, is all one needs. And in the song "Cry" from Jackson's last CD "Invincible": "And when all calls, I will answer all your prayers."

I don't want to hype the Jackson cult with these quotations, I just want to describe it. On the other hand I don't want to talk a believer out of his faith. I just want to ask for two things to be considered: Everything that we get to know about Michael Jackson today is colored by the way the artist chose to portray himself, what he wanted us to believe. On the other hand his image in the media is tainted by whatever the industry of marketing considers useful. In the face of still existing racism in the US, it is understandable that the biggest African-American star is being claimed even in his bleached form as a participant of the civil rights movement. In reality the example of Rihanna of Xavier Naidoo simply proves one thing: "If we can profit from you, than it really doesn't matter if you are black or white."

Written by Roland Rottenfusser
http://www.connection.de/artikel/spiritualitaet-mystik/der-michael-jackson-kult

Translation from the German original text by Irina Hale, 2011



Der Michael Jackson Kult

Ein spiritueller Pop-Himmel

Um den verstorbenen »Pop-Märchenkönig« Michael Jackson bildet sich ein Kult, der weit über die übliche Star-Verehrung hinausgeht. Vieles deutet darauf hin, dass sich Künstler selbst als spiritueller Meister und Welt-Prophet verstand. Befinden wir uns in der Gründungsphase einer neuen Religion?

»Der beste Beweis dafür, dass es Religion nicht gibt, ist es, eine zu gründen.« Ein rätselhafter Satz aus Peter Sloterdijks neuem Buch »Du musst dein Leben ändern«. Gemeint ist wahrscheinlich folgendes: Wer selbst an der Entstehung eines neuen Kults beteiligt ist, verliert viel von der Ehrfurcht, die man älteren, durch die historische Ferne verklärten Religionen allgemein entgegen bringt. Er kann all die Übertreibungen, die Geschichtsfälschungen und Mythenbildungen hautnah beobachten. Wenn eine neue Religion im Entstehen ist, lohnt es sich, genauer hinzuschauen. Man kann dabei viel lernenm auch über traditionelle Religionen.
Derzeit können wir wieder die Entstehung eines Kults beobachten: jenes um Tod und Verklärung Michael Jacksons. In unserer Generation sind erst zwei quasi-religiöse Kulte von globalem Format entstanden. Der eine drehte sich um Michaels »Vorgänger«, den 1977 verstorbenen Elvis Presley. Als zweites ist natürlich der Rummel um die 1997 bei einem Autounfall ums Leben gekommene Prinzessin Diana zu nennen. Elvis ehemalige Wohnanlage »Graceland« wurde bald nach seinem Tod zur Pilgerstätte. Es gründete sich (im Ernst!) eine »Church of Elvis«, und immer wieder kam es zu geheimnisvollen »Elvis-Sichtungen. Der King sei noch am Leben und untergetaucht, hieß es. Auf Prinzessin Diana wurden gar Eigenschaften der »Mutter Gottes« projiziert. Man betete zu ihr, es gab Meldungen über Wunder, und der Christa Falk-Verlag publizierte ein Buch über Botschaften Dianas aus dem Jenseits: »Green Hill. Gespräche mit der Königin des Herzens«.

Mordgerüchte, die nie verstummen

Alles spricht dafür, dass im Zusammenhang mit Michael Jackson ähnliche Phänomene auftreten werden. Vielleicht sogar »schlimmere«, denn Michael ist rätselhafter als Elvis, ein »Ludwig II.« für eine globale Verehrergemeinde. Von dem Bayerischen König und Erbauer von Neuschwanstein ist der Satz überliefert: »Ein ewig Rätsel will ich blieben mir und andren.« Offenbar waren beide Menschen, die nicht so recht in diese banale Welt zu passen schiene. Dafür, dass auch der Pop-Märchenkönig aus Indiana (USA) für immer ein Rätsel bleiben wird, sind die Weichen optimal gestellt. Mordgerüchte, die weder jemals bestätigt werden, noch ganz zum Verstummen kommen, sind der Entstehung eines solchen Mythos eher zuträglich.
Im Gegensatz zu einem James Dean oder George Harrison, bei denen sich der Kult ohne Absicht als unvermeidlicher Nebeneffekt ihrer Popularität einstellte, hat Jackson seinen eigenen Mythos bewusst genährt. In seinem Werk legte er vielfache Spuren gelegt, auf die sich die globale Trauergemeinde berufen kann. Schon zeichnen sich Umrisse einer »spirituellen Lehre« ab, die einem neuen Katechismus des Jacksontums als Vorlage dienen könnten. Heilt die Welt, macht aus ihr einen besseren Ort gehört natürlich zu den Kernstücken. Die ökologische Botschaft »Was haben wir dieser Erde angetan? Könnt ihr sie nicht schreien hören? Ein flammendes Plädoyer gegen den Rassismus: »Wenn du fühlst, dass du mein Bruder bist, ist es egal ob du schwarz bist oder weiß.« Und natürlich das Mantra des US-amerikanischen Mentalstrainings: »Wenn du Veränderung willst, beginne damit bei dir selbst.« Einseitig verstanden, bewirkt die Botschaft aus »Man in the Mirror«, dass es zwar viele Therapie-Kunden, jedoch nur wenige Revolutionäre gibt. Vielleicht wird das Lied deshalb so gern zitiert.

Als Jacksons Requiem, das natürlich auch bei seiner Trauerfeier zu hören war, eignet sich »Gone too soon«, populäre Version der Totenklage über den verstorbenen Christus. Und nicht zu vergessen natürlich Michaels Botschaft an die Hinterbliebenen: »Du bist nicht allein. Ich bin hier bei dir«. Selbst realistische Fernsehdokumentationen setzen You are not alone in diesem zweideutigen Sinn ein: Der große Verstorbene spendet Trost aus dem Jenseits. »Siehe, ich bin bei euch alle Tage bis zum Ende der Welt. Zur fleißigen Selbststilisierung des Künstlers kommt natürlich eine schier unerschöpfliche Bereitschaft der Fans, jede Äußerung des Meisters als bedeutend zu verstehen. Sogar wenn Jackson auf seiner letzten CD singt: »I want my privacy dahh! yeah, yeah«, wird dies von Bewunderern als mutige Selbstenthüllung und subtile Medienkritik gedeutet werden. Realistisch betrachtet ist die Ausbeute an »engagierten Aussagen bei Michael Jackson eher dünn jedenfalls verglichen mit wirklich großen Textern wie Bob Dylan, John Lennon oder Reinhard Mey.
Jacksons Stärke lag eindeutig auf dem Gebiet der Musik, und da vor allem bei den rhythmischen Liedern. Wenn man die Lieder noch einmal auf sich wirken lässt, zweifelt man eher daran, dass sich ihr Schöpfer zum Propheten von Liebe, Frieden und Harmonie eignet. Eher erscheint er als der König der musikalischen Aggression. Jackson überhöhte seine Atemgeräusche zur Kunstform, gefiel sich in übererregtem Schreigesang und hektischen Gesten, die offenbar auf erotische Selbst- und Fremdstimulation abzielten. Genau genommen verkörperte er damit das Gegenteil eines »weisen, gleichmütigen Buddha«. Eher war Michael Jackson der Protagonist einer nachmodernen Überregungskultur, die nach Stimulation durch immer stärkere Reize verlangt, nach Thrill. Für mein Gefühl spiegelt diese Musik nicht so sehr die »Erlösung«, nach der unser Planet verlangt, sondern eher das, was der Erlösung bedarf: die hyperaktive Nervosität und Getriebenheit der Epoche.

»Ich liebe euch vom Grunde meines Herzens«

Trotzdem scheint die Weltbeglückungsmission in »Heal the World«, die in allen Interviews durchscheinende sanfte Scheu des Menschen Michael Jackson nicht nur Pose gewesen zu sein. Es scheint diese zwei Gesichter gehabt zu haben, und sie machen einen Teil seiner Faszination aus. »Ich liebe euch vom Grunde meines Herzens« hauchte er in die Mikrophone gehaucht hat, und ließ anschließend bei »Dirty Diana« die Sau raus. Vielleicht war dies nicht die schlechteste Art, seinen Schatten zu bearbeiten, der riesengroß gewesen sein muss misst man ihn an der Größe des Lichts, das der Pop-Prophet über die Welt ergießen wollte. Zweifellos nahm der Schöpfer von »Thriller« nicht nur in Kauf, von seinen Fans als Guru verehrt zu werden; er legte es darauf an. Seine priesterliche Funktion erfüllte aber am Wirksamsten in der Art eines tanzenden Schamanen. Als solcher führte er seine Schutzbefohlenen durch Tanz und Rhythmus in eine Art Trance und ermöglichte ihnen so die Erfahrung einer quasi-religiösen Ekstase. Selbst wenn man kein passionierter Jackson-Devotee ist, kann man beim Anschauen seiner Konzert-Clips eine Ahnung davon erhaschen.
Von Reinhard Mey gibt es ein schönes Lied, in dem es heißt: »Da lob ich mir ein Stück Musik von Hand gemacht, von einem richtigen Menschen mit dem Kopf erdacht«. Michael Jackson wollte nie im Sinne Meys nur ein richtiger Mensch sein, der handgemachte Musik spielte. Er legte es von Anfang an darauf an, perfekt zu sein mehr als nur menschlich. Er erfand einen Tanz, dessen Schweben Dynamik fast nicht mehr als menschenmöglich erschien. Er sang mit einer Stimme, die unnatürlich hoch und beweglich erschien. Er ließ sein Gesicht modellieren, bis er aussah, wie noch nie ein Mensch auf dieser Erde ausgesehen hatte. Er war der »Rock & n Roll-Übermensch« (wie es in einem Lied der Band »Ärzte« heißt). Das innere Bild, das er von sich entwarf - jenes eines »weißen Ritters« mit den Augen einer schönen Frau versuchte er notfalls mit Gewalt frei zu legen, durch Misshandlung seines sympathischen ursprünglichen Gesichts.

Stets versuchte er, sich mit den ganz großen Namen in Verbindung zu bringen: Santana, Chaplin, Spielberg, Elisabeth Taylor, Naomi Campbell, Marlon Brando, Martin Luther King, Prinzessin Diana & Mit Paul McCartney hatte er für zwei Lieder zusammengearbeitet. Und wer die Tochter des King heiratet, was kann der anderes sein als dessen Kronprinz, der designierte Nachfolger? Fast scheint es, als habe er mit Lisa Marie Presley die Zeugung eines Kindes von höchstem Pop-Adel konzipiert, doch dies bleibt Spekulation. Unstreitig ist, dass kaum jemand hat es mit solcher Konsequenz angestrebt hat, als »der Größte zu gelten. Der scheue, zurückhaltende Michael, das ist nur die halbe Wahrheit. Seine paradoxe Botschaft an die Welt lautet: »Schaut alle her, ich bin menschenscheu«. Unvergesslich ist für mich sein monumentaler Trailer zum Album »History«, in dem eine monströse Jackson-Statue enthüllt wird, vom Scheinwerferlicht aus Hubschraubern angestrahlt, von tausenden bejubelt. Wie ist einer drauf, der solche Clips von sich drehen lässt?

Der einsamste Mensch der Welt

Solche Widersprüche gibt es viele. So wird Jackson hartnäckig als »einsamster Mensch der Welt« geschildert, obwohl er, wie eigentlich jeder wusste, aus einer liebenden Großfamilie stammte und mit drei Kindern zusammen lebte. Er wird geschildert als der unglückliche Prinz im goldenen Käfig. Aber ist es nicht wahrscheinlich, dass es im Leben Jacksons auch viel Freude gab die offensichtlichen Ekstasen auf der Bühne, die Lust am Kaufen und am Ausleben jeder noch so kindlichen Fantasie, die Liebe und Verehrung der Fans & Warum diese Fixierung auf den Schmerzensmann? Wie bei allen Berichten über unglückliche Reiche und Exzentriker lautet die damit verbundene Botschaft: »Seht ihr, reich und berühmt zu sein, macht auch nicht glücklich, also seid zufrieden mit eurem kleinen Leben. Versucht nicht erst, etwas Besonderes aus euch zu machen. Ihr seht ja, wo das endet.« Ein weiteres Klischee ist das von Jackson als großem Wohltäter. Es ist gut dokumentiert, dass der »Heal the World«-Prophet der in einer Luxus-Shopping-Meile an einem Tag mehrere Vasen im Wert von einer Viertel Million Dollar und weitere teure Stücke erstand. Es wäre kaum ein besseres Beispiel denkbar für die Absurdität übermäßigen Reichtums und auch für den Hang vieler reicher Menschen zu Selbsttäuschung.
Zur Verklärung des Michael Jackson gehört natürlich auch eine Art Passionsgeschichte. Und es gibt Bösewichter, die in seine Vita Eingang gefunden haben wie Pilatus ins Credo. Der harte Vater Joseph Jackson z.B. oder der Staatsanwalt Tom Sneddon, der ihn wegen Kindesmissbrauchs verfolgte. Zu den dunklen Mächten im Leben des Propheten gehören aber auch die Presse, die ihn in den Schmutz zog, letztlich alle, die ihn nicht verstanden und an ihn geglaubt haben. Der Mythos, der sich jetzt zu bilden beginnt, trägt den Namen: »Siehe, das Licht kam in die Finsternis, und die Finsternis hats nicht erkannt«. Michael, Josephs Sohn, hat an vielen Stellen in seinem Werk Spuren hinterlassen, die ihn in die Nähe von Jesus Christus rücken. So heißt es in »Bad: »Du wirfst mit Steinen« und »Wenn es dir nicht gefällt, was ich sage, wieso schlägst du mir dann ins Gesicht. (Jesus sagte: »Habe ich aber recht geredet, was schlägst du mich?«). Jackson ließ sich auffallend oft in der Kreuzigungsstellung ablichten, mit weit ausgebreiteten Armen. Im Video zu »They dont care about us« wird die große Jesus-Statue am Zuckerhut von Rio eingeblendet, bevor die Kamera hinunter in die Slums blendet, wo Jackson als tanzender Befreier auftritt.

Engel und Außerirdischer

Andere Posen Jacksons sind die des Engels (in einem Video zu »You are not alone« ist er mit Engelsflügeln zu sehen) und die des Außerirdischen. Bei einem Bühneauftritt trat er mit Silbernen Raumanzug aus einem Ufo, dessen Anflug zuvor in einem Film gezeigt wurde. »Mein Reich ist nicht von dieser Welt«, scheint dieser Auftritt sagen zu wollen. Und: »Ich bring euch gute, neue Mär«. Ferner war Michael Jackson der Gralsritter, als der er sich auf einem Tryptichon aus seiner Neverland-Ranch darstellen ließ. Michael in Heldenpose in goldener Rüstung, Michael, der den Ritterschlag erhält. Michael, der zum König gekrönt wird. Dazu ein Gedicht, das als Ausspruch des Popstars ausgegeben wird, aber in Wahrheit ein Beinahe-Plagiat der hinduistischen Bhagavad Gita ist: »Ich bin der Denker, das Denken und der Gedanke. Ich bin der Sucher, die Suche und das Gesuchte. Ich bin der Tautropfen, die Sonne, Sturm &« Hier spricht Gott selbst in seiner persönlichen Erscheinungsform als Michael Jackson, der an die Stelle Krishnas tritt. Auch das Design, das Jackson seinem Gesicht verpasst hat, ist scheinbar an Darstellungen von Gott-Krisna in der Hindu-Kunst angelehnt: Schmale Nase, ausdrucksvolle weibliche Augen, langes, schwarzes Haar.

Aber ist die Behauptung, dass eine Michael Jackson-Religion im Entstehen sei, nicht übertrieben? Sicher befinden wir uns in einem Frühstadium der Entwicklung, und niemand kann die Zukunft vorhersagen. Dass Popstars kultisch verehrt werden, ist auch nichts Neues. Aber verglichen mit kreischenden Teenies, die man bei jedem Konzert von Tokyo Hotel finden kann, haben wir es hier doch mit einer ganz anderen Dimension zu tun. Zu einer formalen Heiligsprechung wird es kaum jemals kommen, seine inoffizielle Seligsprechung ist jedoch längst im Gange. Viele der Redner auf seiner Trauerveranstaltungen orteten den Verstorbenen bereits im Himmel, wo er auf seine lieben Hinterbliebenen herabblickt. Stevie Wonder spekulierte sogar, dass Gott Michael zu sich geholt habe, weil er ihn dringend bräuchte. (Wohl gemerkt: Gott braucht Michael, nicht umgekehrt).

Michael Jackson war ein spiritueller Mensch

Unterstützung erhält eine zu gründende Jackson-Religion auch aus der Ecke der Hardcore-Esoterik. So wird in einem Channeling der angeblichen außerirdischen Wesenheit Kryon verkündet: »Steckt nicht vielleicht ein großes Wesen hinter diesem doch sehr verrückt erscheinenden Menschen Michael Jackson? Welche Energie hat diese Massen zum Jubeln gebracht? Welche Kraft hat diesem doch sehr zarten menschlichen Wesen solche kraftzehrenden Dinge tun lassen? Welche Göttliche Energie hat durch ihn die Herzen der Menschen in Ekstase gehoben? Ich darf dir versichern, es war eine der ganz großen Seelen.« Wenn die Engel selbst Michael als einen der ihren annehmen, wie können wir Irdischen da noch zweifeln?
Sicher ist, dass Michael Jackson ein spiritueller Mensch und gern in Begleitung anderer Esoteriker war. Uri Geller, der mit Jackson befreundet war, gab in einem Boulevard-Magazin zu Protokoll: Ich bin fest davon überzeugt, dass er im Himmel ist. Als wir über das Leben nach dem Tod sprachen, sagte Michael, er glaube daran, dass unsere Seele unzerstörbar ist. Irgendwo im Jenseits leuchtet Michaels Stern in all seiner Brillanz zwischen denen von Elvis Presley, John Lennon und Frank Sinatra.« Sogar Michaels energetische Spur will der für seine PSI-Kräfte bekannte Fernsehmoderator wahrgenommen haben: »Wenn ich heute an der Stelle in meinem Haus bin, wo er war, oder dort sitze, wo er saß, dann fühle ich immer noch etwas, eine Kraft.«

Solche Zeugnisse findet man im Internet zuhauf, wenn auch meist von weniger prominenten Jüngern. Der Kommentator eines Jackson-Videos auf youtube schrieb: »Michael ist ein Engel, den Gott uns gesandt hat ..., um uns die Augen zu öffnen und uns die Gelegenheit zu geben, uns zu ändern und diese Planeten zu heilen. Die Zeit ist gekommen, Gottes Planeten zu heilen.« Können wir denn ausschließen, dass Jackson ein Erwählter war, ein Erleuchteter? Niemand kann in einen anderen Menschen hineinschauen. Wenn Michael Jackson so häufig Liebe empfunden hat, wie er den Satz »I love you« sagte, musste er die seltene Fähigkeit zu universeller Liebe verwirklicht haben.
Fest steht auch, dass es von ihm Äußerungen gibt, die darauf hindeuten, dass er Erleuchtungserfahrungen hatte (zumindest aber nach außen diesen Eindruck erwecken wollte). Besonders reich an spirituellen Texten ist Michael Jacksons Gedichtband »Dancing the Dream«, wo er schreibt: »Meine Lieder und Tänze sind die Konturen, die Gott betreten und füllen kann. Ich sorge für die Form; Sie füllt die Süße hinein. ... Der süßeste Kontakt mit Gott hat für mich jedoch keine Form. Ich schließe meine Augen, schau nach innen, und betrete eine tiefe sanfte Stille. Die Unendlichkeit von Gottes Schöpfung umarmt mich. Wir sind eins.« Zum Prozess der Inspiration schrieb der Künstler: »Das Geheimnis, ein wunderbarer Schreiber zu sein, besteht darin, nicht zu schreiben. Du trittst einfach beiseite und schaffst Raum, damit Gott eintreten kann. Und im Lied »Cry« aus Jacksons letzter CD Invincible heißt es: »Und wenn alles ruft, werde ich auf alle eure Gebete antworten.«
Ich will den Jackson-Kult mit diesen Zitaten nicht anheizen, ihn nur beschreiben. Andererseits will ich keinem Gläubigen seinen Glauben ausreden. Ich bitte nur, zwei Dinge zu bedenken: Alles, was wir heute über Michael Jackson erfahren, ist einerseits dadurch geprägt, wie sich der Künstler selbst dargestellt hat, was er uns glauben machen wollte. Andererseits ist sein Bild in den Medien davon gefärbt, was der Vermarktungsindustrie nützt. Angesichts des bis in die jüngere Geschichte noch virulenten US-amerikanischen Rassismus, ist es verständlich, dass der größte schwarze Star auch noch in seiner gebleichten Form für die Bürgerrechtsbewegung reklamiert wird. In Wahrheit beweist das Beispiel Jacksons wie das von Rihanna oder Xavier Naidoo oder aber vor allem eines: »Wenn wir mit dir Profit machen können, ist es egal, ob du schwarz bist oder weiß.«

Roland Rottenfusser
http://www.connection.de/artikel/spiritualitaet-mystik/der-michael-jackson-kult.html
 
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Anyone know when or/and where I can see this doc? Looks interesting.

And I'm keeping my Islamic belief out of this thread, for sure ;)
 
Anyone know when or/and where I can see this doc? Looks interesting.
There is a facebook presence but on the surface I don't see any DVD distribution etc., maybe I didn't look in the right place, I only saw one theatre screening and a few excerpts on youtube.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/THE-MJ-JESUS-DOCUMENTARY/132018386814129


And I'm keeping my Islamic belief out of this thread, for sure
winking.gif
I think you're kidding, but if you had and wanted to contribute Islam's point of view (as difficult as it to even lump that all together, just as there is no one Christian viewpoint), I'd love to hear that because I would assume you'd have a lot to say on how you understand a Prophet. (and even Jesus). Would be fascinating to add.
If Krishna and Jesus are in here, there's still a lot that could be added.
 
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There is a facebook presence but on the surface I don't see DVD distribution etc., maybe I didn't look in the right place.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/THE-MJ-JESUS-DOCUMENTARY/132018386814129



I think you're kidding, but if you had and wanted to contribute Islam's point of view (as difficult as it to even lump that all together, just as there is no one Christian viewpoint), I'd love to hear that because I would assume you'd have a lot to say on how you understand a Prophet. (and even Jesus). Would be fascinating to add.
If Krishna and Jesus are in here, there's still a lot that could be added.

According to the Islamic view, Jesus is not any different than how the Christians see him. The only big difference between the Christian and Islamic view of Jesus is that Islam does not consider Jesus as God's begotten son nor that he was crucified. All the rest is nearly identical.

According to some other scholars, however, Jesus might have been inspired from Krishna's story and some myhtological chartacters such as Mithra or even Isis (I have to check out for the latter).

Edited to add:

Jesus and Mary in the Qur'an, the birth and the "death?":
  • [FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]"And mention in the Book, Maryam, when she withdrew from her family to a place facing east. She placed a screen from them; then We sent to her our angel (Jibrael, or Gabriel), and he appeared before her in the form of a man in full human form. She said:[/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]'I seek refuge with The Most Beneficent [God] from you, if you do fear Him.' (The angel) said:[/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]'I am only a Messenger from your Lord, (to announce) to you the gift of a righteous son.' She said:[/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]'How can I have a son, when no man has touched me, nor am I unchaste?' He (the angel) said:[/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]'So (it will be), your Lord said: 'That is easy for Me: And to appoint him as a sign to mankind and a mercy from Us (from God)', and it is a matter (already) decreed (by God).' " (Quran 19:16-21)




    • [FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]"And they (the disbelieves) plotted [to kill Jesus] and Allah planned too. And Allah is the Best of planners. When Allah said:[/SIZE][/FONT]
      [FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]'O I'esa (Jesus)! I will take you and raise you to my Myself and clear you of those who disbelieve, and I will make those who follow you (your teachings) superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me shall be your return, and I will judge between you in the matters in which you used to dispute.'" (Quran 3:54-55).[/SIZE][/FONT]
    [/SIZE]
    [/FONT]
 
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KrishnaandtheGopis1.jpg



Just had to add this, because it's a magnificent painting of Krishna and his gopis with some pretty nifty ancient super soakers.

Nice one


and here is the best scene ever, imo, in the history of film making, look at the facial expression of the people who saw Jesus straight in the face including the Roman soldier who was about to hit Jesus, then all of sudden for unknown reasons stepped back. Note that we don't ever see a glimpse of it and how eager we get to see Jesus's face for ourselves, but never manage to. Excellent movie directing (highlight from Ben Hur):

[youtube]Mr4MGAYhaEc[/youtube]
 
A friend had shown me an article written in German that actually dealt precisely with that question. It's actually an interesting read concerning the things that are obviously on the minds of contemporaries, giving a the whole dynamics a good second look.

I found it interesting enough in the way it gives insides into the heads of contemporaries.
One just have to have a strong stomach to ignore some of the willful ignorance and some of the way off commentary relating to his charity, "shopping habits" and the usual "abused his formerly pleasant fac" nonsense etc. Just read around that stuff, I don't agree with a lot myself.


Here's the translation.(and the original for those who'd like it)

Interesting article, though, like you said with some stupid remarks.

Looking at the issue realistically the final tally of 'meaningful statements' by Michael Jackson seems rather slim- at least compared to great writers such as Bob Dylan, John Lennon, or Reinhard Mey. [German singer-songwriter]Looking at the issue realistically the final tally of 'meaningful statements' by Michael Jackson seems rather slim- at least compared to great writers such as Bob Dylan, John Lennon, or Reinhard Mey. [German singer-songwriter]

Oh really? I guess "She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah" or "It's been a hard day's night and I've been working like a dog" is truly profound compared to anything Michael wrote...

No, I don't want to reduce Lennon's work to such songs, but in the same manner it's not fair to say about Michael that his tally of meaningful statements was slim in comparation. Only for someone who doesn't really pay attention to the lyrics of his songs. In fact, there is no more meaningful political and social message than the ones Michael sang about, even if they seem simple or naiv sometimes.

Another favorite stereotype seems to be that of the charitable philanthropist. It has been well documented that the "Heal the World" prophet has purchased several vases at a price of a quarter of a million dollars together with more costly pieces. One cannot find a better example for the absurdity of unspeakable wealth and for the tendencies of many financially well off people to fool themselves.

First off, it wasn't a stereotype or an image that Michael was lonely. He was lonely. You can be lonely coming from a large family and being surrounded by people when everyone is looking to take advantage of you all the time. And that was Michael's life. Not to acknowledge the reality of it is very insensitive and ignorant from the writer. Also how does buying expensive vases negate Michael's pilanthrophy? One is mutually exclusive of the other? Such BS!

OK, now that we got the stupid remarks out of the way to the main point of the article: I think there isn't really much chance for Jacksonism to become a religion because we simply don't live at times as when Christainity was born. Science is a lot more advanced, with the global communication networks, quick information flows it's a lot more difficulty to wrap individuals who recently lived into mythology than in ancient times. And people have become a lot more cynical too. Though it has to be noted that even in such times Michael managed to be mysterious and somewhat mythical. But because of the cynicism of the current age it rather backfired. (People assuming bad things about him rather than good.) On the other hand there is a strong martyr element in his story and it might get stronger when people (perhaps following generations) will allow themselves to look at the allegations against him objectively without the bias of the current brainwashed mobs and discover that they were false and also that the media's and much of the public's treatment of him was unfair. If that happens he would probably become a huge martyr of our age.

The outline of 'spiritual teachings' thus becomes visible, that could eventually serve as the new Catechism of Jacksonism. "Heal the World, make it a better place'- being the rock of the foundation.
The ecological message of "What have we done to the world? Can't you hear its screams?"
A flaming plea against racism: "If you feel to be my brother, it doesn't matter if you're black or white". And of course the mantra of US-American mental self-improvement: "If you are looking for change, best start with yourself."

It would be a good religion.
 
...
and here is the best scene ever, imo, in the history of film making, look at the facial expression of the people who saw Jesus straight in the face including the Roman soldier who was about to hit Jesus, then all of sudden for unknown reasons stepped back. Note that we don't ever see a glimpse of it and how eager we get to see Jesus's face for ourselves, but never manage to. Excellent movie directing (highlight from Ben Hur):

[youtube]Mr4MGAYhaEc[/youtube]
Very brilliant and moving. Haven't watched in a long time though, but hey, the month of april is coming up.
I tried watching Mel Gibson's, too, but I haven't manage to watch the whole thing as of yet.

Interesting article, though, like you said with some stupid remarks.

Oh really? I guess "She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah" or "It's been a hard day's night and I've been working like a dog" is truly profound compared to anything Michael wrote...

Yeah, that part cracked me up, too. Because, you know, "I am the walrus". Like you I'm not making light of anyone's lyrics, but yeah, that part really made me cringe. And a lot more. And it's not even Lennon's or Reinhard Mey's fault. Which is something else that made me laugh- because coincidentally I am extremely partial to aforementioned Reinhard Mey and his music- that was used to compare to Michael. I guess you can't love both?? Well, you certainly can.

It would be a good religion.
The hymns would be outta this world! :D
 
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Very brilliant and moving. Haven't watched in a long time though, but hey, the month of april is coming up.
I tried watching Mel Gibson's, too, but I haven't manage to watch the whole thing as of yet.

Mel Gibson's one is far from Ben Hur's delight.

Have you seen Christ's last temptation with Willem Dafoe? Very gnostic...
 
Pretty ridiculous. Michael definitly was influenced by the teachings of Jesus in the Bible, and like others have said he was religious. The Earth Song performances specifically on the HIStory Tour though did look very Jesus like I must say.
 
What the frickin' hell!? I'm not gonna fall for that. Michael is not Jesus, he said to Oprah himself that he tries to imitate him, but he isn't Jesus, because Jesus loves kids and heals them. I believe Michael can heal kids like Jesus because he studies him. I know for a fact that Michael is not Jesus nor God.

[YOUTUBE]QiOiTYRsuIQ[/YOUTUBE]

Listen on 2:00-2:36
 
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Mel Gibson's one is far from Ben Hur's delight.

Have you seen Christ's last temptation with Willem Dafoe? Very gnostic...

No, I actually haven't. But, I can quote the Life of Brian forward, backwards and sideways- if that counts at all? I believe the Latin graffiti scene may be my personal favorite scene in movie history.

Thanks, I'll check that one out!
 
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No, I actually haven't. But, I can quote the Life of Brian forward, backwards and sideways- if that counts at all? I believe the Latin graffiti scene may be my personal favorite scene in movie history.

Thanks, I'll check that one out!

Life of Brian is excellent looooooooooool!!!

But you should definitely check out Christ's last temptation.

[youtube]IIAdHEwiAy8[/youtube]
 
What the frickin' hell!?

:rofl:

. . . . but he isn't Jesus, because Jesus loves kids and heals them.
I believe Michael can heal kids like Jesus because he studies him.

So, Jesus loves kids and heals them. And Michael loves kids and heals them. And . . . . . .?

I know for a fact that Michael is not Jesus nor God.

Which fact would that be? Link? ( :eek: sorry, but the logic is . . .. interesting. . . ) That's ok. A lot of people didn't believe Jesus was Jesus, either, back-in-the-day. (not that I think. .. you know. But, fascinating topic?) Wish we knew more about the film, and the "facts" that it uses?

(edit) I'm not laughing AT you, but "what the frickin' hell" made me spit out my tea! I actually think that "what the frickin' hell" is quite a reasonable response to the topic, under the circumstances?
 
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Wish I can see this film..very intersting. I don't think he meant MJ was are Jesus literally. But, very christ-like in many of the things he said and did in his life/career. And I can see his point if indeed that is what he is saying. MJ obviously was influenced by doing good deeds like being postive, helping and loving one another. Especially, protecting children who are the future and can be great leaders if they are loved and not abused. Something he felt strongly do to his life & do to growing up so religious and going around the world and seeing the conditions that so many lived in and wanting to do something to help.
 
:rofl:



So, Jesus loves kids and heals them. And Michael loves kids and heals them. And . . . . . .?



Which fact would that be? Link? ( :eek: sorry, but the logic is . . .. interesting. . . ) That's ok. A lot of people didn't believe Jesus was Jesus, either, back-in-the-day. (not that I think. .. you know. But, fascinating topic?) Wish we knew more about the film, and the "facts" that it uses?

(edit) I'm not laughing AT you, but "what the frickin' hell" made me spit out my tea! I actually think that "what the frickin' hell" is quite a reasonable response to the topic, under the circumstances?

Fact that Jesus said he was Jesus and many didn't believe despite his miraculous healings and he himself stating he was Jesus, the promised Messiah.
Many of the early disciples were able to heal people like Jesus did by means of the Holy Spirit, yet they never claimed to be Jesus, although many who were intrigued by their message and abilities were ready to worship them as if they were Jesus to which they objected.

Likewise, Michael Jackson never claimed to be Jesus but he did state he tries to be very Christ like which is in line with his religious upbringing and his spiritual beliefs in the Bible.

Michael was the biggest star this era and time in History has ever seen so much so its seems supernatural and judging by all he had he didn't need God really yet he was amazingly humble because he knew where it all came from,never letting it get to his head and never failed to let us know where it came from either which is why he continued to recieve blessings. In living the life as a follower and imitator of Jesus, he came across heavy prosecution too, just as Jesus did and he warned his followers that it would be no different for them also but in the end Good triumps over Evil and although Michael's no longer here, His legacy is being blessed and more people the world over Love him now more than ever before.

To suggest that Michael is Jesus would be missing the point entirely. I find it offensive and Im sure Michael would find this offensive too. Michael knew he was a Healer but Jesus? No.
 
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Fact that Jesus said he was Jesus and many didn't believe despite his miraculous healings and he himself stating he was Jesus, the promised Messiah.
Many of the early disciples were able to heal people like Jesus did by means of the Holy Spirit, yet they never claimed to be Jesus, although many who were intrigued by their message and abilities were ready to worship them as if they were Jesus to which they objected.

Likewise, Michael Jackson never claimed to be Jesus but he did state he tries to be Christ like which is in line with his religious upbringing and his spiritual beliefs in the Bible.

To suggest that Michael is Jesus would be missing the point entirely. I find it offensive and Im sure Michael would find this offensive too. Michael knew he was a Healer but Jesus? No.

It's not fact, it's all a matter of faith whether Jesus said any of those things attributed to him in the Bible or not. Like said in this thread eariler, the books of the New Testament were written much later than when Jesus allegedly lived so we cannot be sure who he was and what he really said. And Jesus himself didn't leave any written account behind so we cannot take his own words for it.
 
Fact that Jesus said he was Jesus and many didn't believe despite his miraculous healings and he himself stating he was Jesus, the promised Messiah.

Jesus is just a common name. Regarding miracles, I think they should be contextualized. According to the scholars living in his time Jesus was not the promised messiah, just as according to the current scholars Michael couldn't be compared to a Christ-like character.


Many of the early disciples were able to heal people like Jesus did by means of the Holy Spirit, yet they never claimed to be Jesus, although many who were intrigued by their message and abilities were ready to worship them as if they were Jesus to which they objected.

Jesus indeed objected to worship him too, yet people do it. Regarding the early disciples healing in Jesus's name, we don't have any other historical document than the New Testament and some rejected Apocryphas, which, all of them, have been written minimum 60 to 70 years after Jeus's supposed crucifiction.

Likewise, Michael Jackson never claimed to be Jesus but he did state he tries to be Christ like which is in line with his religious upbringing and his spiritual beliefs in the Bible.

Jesus made reference and took example from previous prophets in the Old Testament. I am not saying MJ is Jesus, but we could easily say that MJ took followed the example.

To suggest that Michael is Jesus would be missing the point entirely. I find it offensive and Im sure Michael would find this offensive too. Michael knew he was a Healer but Jesus? No.

It's just an allegory, I don't think anyone says MJ was Jesus himself, but very much he behaved like a modern day prophet or messenger gathering and uniting people through love, caring and loving children, being a philanthropist, etc.
 
It's not fact, it's all a matter of faith whether Jesus said any of those things attributed to him in the Bible or not. Like said in this thread eariler, the books of the New Testament were written much later than when Jesus allegedly lived so we cannot be sure who he was and what he really said. And Jesus himself didn't leave any written account behind so we cannot take his own words for it.

Well I am sure many Christian theologians don't take the Gospels as litteral, as they know that each gospel is written not according to Jesus, nor eyewitnesses, but scribes.

We only have a Jesus depicted by:

Matthew
Mark
Luke
John

And almost all the rest is according to the "vision" of St. Paul.

People are free to take their words for granted or not. However, what is surprising is to see that if today someone came and said "I have a vision of Jesus, he told me this and that", people would be much more sceptical than for the same situation 2000 years ago. It is interesting to see that people believe Paul's claims of vision, and not anyone else's.
 
Jesus is just a common name. Regarding miracles, I think they should be contextualized. According to the scholars living in his time Jesus was not the promised messiah, just as according to the current scholars Michael couldn't be compared to a Christ-like character.

And Jews still don't accept him as the Messiah. Here is the Jewish perspective on Jesus:

Jews do not believe that Jesus was divine, the Son of God, or the Messiah prophesied in Jewish scriptures. He is seen as a "false messiah," meaning someone who claimed (or whose followers claimed for him) the mantle of the Messiah but who ultimately did not meet the requirements laid out in Jewish beliefs. According to Jewish scripture and belief, the true Messiah (pronounced "moshiach" in Hebrew) must meet the following requirements. He must:

* Be an observant Jewish man descended from the house of King David
* Be an ordinary human being (as opposed to the Son of God)
* Bring peace to the world
* Gather all Jews back into Israel
* Rebuild the ancient Temple in Jerusalem
* Unite humanity in the worship of the Jewish God and Torah observance

Because Jesus did not meet these requirements, from the Jewish perspective he was not the Messiah.
http://judaism.about.com/od/judaismbasics/a/Jewish-View-Of-Jesus.htm

The Jews aren't impressed by the claims of miracles either because the Old Testament doesn't say whoever makes miracles they should accept as the Messiah. On the contrary, it warns them against false prophets who are able to perform miracles!
 
Jesus is just a common name. Regarding miracles, I think they should be contextualized. According to the scholars living in his time Jesus was not the promised messiah, just as according to the current scholars Michael couldn't be compared to a Christ-like character.




Jesus indeed objected to worship him too, yet people do it. Regarding the early disciples healing in Jesus's name, we don't have any other historical document than the New Testament and some rejected Apocryphas, which, all of them, have been written minimum 60 to 70 years after Jeus's supposed crucifiction.



Jesus made reference and took example from previous prophets in the Old Testament. I am not saying MJ is Jesus, but we could easily say that MJ took followed the example.



It's just an allegory, I don't think anyone says MJ was Jesus himself, but very much he behaved like a modern day prophet or messenger gathering and uniting people through love, caring and loving children, being a philanthropist, etc.

Ok. Not my intent to turn this into a religious debate because they never end well and people get hurt. Maybe I shouldn't have said Fact knowing that many people do not share my faith.

However from the historical accounts it is well known that the biblical Jesus claimed he was the promised Messiah, which is what partly got him killed. If we can't go by the accounts, then we might as well not speak of Jesus as of he ever existed nor acknowledge him. I have faith that what I believe is fact and there's no need to go into it here. Faith is not a science, it just is what it is.

Throwing documented facts that have been organized and interpreted from best guesses and most likely scenarios (much like my statistics and probability class) and the words of scholars mean nearly nothing because they are just like me and they weren't there (Much like a baby teaching another baby about life, what makes the other more qualified?) . Both sides are speculating. Somethings we can go by the books with, somethings we can't. Oh how many times does science have to change its "Facts". Don't get me wrong here Im a huge fan of science, in fact I'm majoring in a heavily scientific field but sometimes you gotta wonder, how in the world can we ever really know certain scientific facts for sure? Later to find out oops Einstein may have been off, so much Faith goes into believing science too. I don't remember if it was Einstein that said this but it was a scholar nonetheless since they seem to be the ruling authority, and Im paraphrasing every major discovery in science is just a miniscule part of the much larger Truth.
It totally amazes me how although certain facts get screwed up yet despite everything the world still goes on.

Either way Michael never said he was Jesus and thats what I'm trying to point out here. Thats a big difference between Michael and the "Historical" Jesus. One claimed to be the Promised Messiah while the other did not.
How can you be the person whose life you studied and inspired you to be the type of person you are today? :blink:
Aside from everything, Michael was not my Jesus. He was a special person to me and it ends there.

Interesting question Bumper, why do so many people believe Paul's vision as opposed to other visions, now to answer this I would have to use the language of scholars and documented fact which I don't have so I guess my explanation on this is pretty useless here...Hopefully one day the scholars and science can explain this Im sure they can, they have all the answers...
 
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And Jews still don't accept him as the Messiah. Here is the Jewish perspective on Jesus:


http://judaism.about.com/od/judaismbasics/a/Jewish-View-Of-Jesus.htm

The Jews aren't impressed by the claims of miracles either because the Old Testament doesn't say whoever makes miracles they should accept as the Messiah. On the contrary, it warns them against false prophets who are able to perform miracles!

Except that Jews who did believe him and follow him became Christians. Interestingly they never named themselves Christians, nor did Jesus speak about Christianity. Romans referred to them as Christians. To the Jews living in Jesus's time and following his teachings they were still Jews and they never heard of Paul.
 
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