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October 17 & 18 hearing / No court on October 17 & 18/ New stomach contents testing

Soundmind said:
@ Ivy , that was established in that voice recording. The jurors heard from MJ himself how large his dreams were and they know by now he was desperate for sleep which is true , his decision to use propofol came out of desperation . Randy won't really admit they read him the riot act, Ortega already denied that and Randy knows the Jacksons r waiting to hear that word from him for their lawsuit. The whole he became desperate that day and he self administered could have been refuted if tests were done on hair samples because I'm sure what happened that day was happening everyday MJ went to sleep under Murray's care and the jurors could have seen for themselves there was nothing special and there was no weaning of and all that BS , but hey Walgren chose this path what can we say !!
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why do you think his desperation was established? Murray on his interview says that Michael asked him to give propofol and told him it doesn't matter what time he wakes up - and misses rehearsal or not. Is this really a "desperate" man or he's cancelling rehearsals and do not care.
 
Soundmind said:
@ Ivy , that was established in that voice recording. The jurors heard from MJ himself how large his dreams were and they know by now he was desperate for sleep which is true , his decision to use propofol came out of desperation . Randy won't really admit they read him the riot act, Ortega already denied that and Randy knows the Jacksons r waiting to hear that word from him for their lawsuit. The whole he became desperate that day and he self administered could have been refuted if tests were done on hair samples because I'm sure what happened that day was happening everyday MJ went to sleep under Murray's care and the jurors could have seen for themselves there was nothing special and there was no weaning of and all that BS , but hey Walgren chose this path what can we say !!
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That is why Walgren is the man in charge of things and you are not. Unlike you he knows what those hair samples say.
 
well I wouldn't say that, has it ever been confirmed that hair samples were indeed done? If they were done great, if not. well he'll be able to find a way to work things out without hair samples.
 
ivy said:
why do you think his desperation was established? Murray on his interview says that Michael asked him to give propofol and told him it doesn't matter what time he wakes up - and misses rehearsal or not. Is this really a "desperate" man or he's cancelling rehearsals and do not care.
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Well, you forget the email from Kenny to Randy . Telling him he told me to trust him , if we cancel it would be devastating to him ...etc. The use of propofol in itself was an act of desperation . We can't really deny he was under pressure to perform , he was nervous and worried these r FACTS ...etc. But unlike what Chernoff is saying the problem was no longer the sleep issue, it was MJ's physical and mental state ,the benzos effect , what Kenny saw that was the problem that could have stopped MJ dream from becoming true , it was no longer insomnia, it was Murray's CHOICE of drugs that Dr.Nader talked about. That's what Walgren have to point .MJ was 'sleeping' but at what cost he was sleeping? Walgren needs to attack, he needs to be on the offense . Murray is a damn liar. That day Murray claims MJ did not sleep till noon and that's why he was desperate and injected himself!! well, how about MJ was sleeping the whole night? if he slept the whole night he would not have a reason to BE DESPERATE TO SLEEP at noon and self inject. Theory by theory ,bring Schfer to say MJ was heavily sedated, the lorazepa was high indicates sedation, the urine at the scene , the condom catheter ...etc let's see who the jury believes but to rely on Murray is really a disaster
 
Soundmind said:
That day Murray claims MJ did not sleep till noon and that's why he was desperate and injected himself!!
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Sorry, but that will be IMPOSSIBLE to prove. So NOW, the defense is saying that "Michael did not drink the propofol. Michael did not ingest eight pills." And NOW? "He injected himself?" And even if he did? That is STILL abandonment, by Murray. The defense should give it UP now.
 
Conrad Murray trial: Defense given more time to prepareTuesday, October 18, 2011The defense is scrambling to isolate the scientific evidence they believe could neutralize the prosecution's case. Behind the scenes in the past week, the defense and prosecution ordered more specific toxicology tests, but the two labs came up with different numbers. Both sides are seeking analysis of how much of the sedative lorazepam was in Jackson's stomach, which added to the effects of the sedative propofol. It was a highlighted point in the prosecution's opening statement. "The coroner also found that levels of lorazepam were pharmacolgicaly significant, and that they played a contributing role in the death of Mr. Jackson," Deputy District Attorney David Walgren said. The prosecution claims the defense results were flawed, showing lorazepam that had built up in Jackson's body for days, not what he took hours before his death. Defense attorney Ed Chernoff told the court during a hearing on Tuesday that they need more time to consult with their experts and to retest a gastric sample, as they try to isolate lorazepam pills they believe Jackson took when Murray was not looking. It's a shift from the defense's original theory that Jackson drank a lethal dose of propofol. Referring to the prosecution's analysis of lorazepam from the coroner's lab, Chernoff said, "We know the process by which it was tested, and we know how this lorazepam was metabolized. What we don't know is how it got into his stomach." The judge agreed to give the defense Thursday to prepare. The defense has disclosed some of the witnesses they will call. They include Randy Phillips from AEG, two detectives and four people who will vouch for Murray's character.
 
Autumn II said:
Sorry, but that will be IMPOSSIBLE to prove. So NOW, the defense is saying that "Michael did not drink the propofol. Michael did not ingest eight pills." And NOW? "He injected himself?" And even if he did? That is STILL abandonment, by Murray. The defense should give it UP now.
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Yes I agree..The defense SHOULD give it up because they have become VERY TRANSPARENT.
 
If one is going argue MJ was desperate for sleep then it can't be the night of June 24, it was the act of a miss guided man that come to believed and trust those doctor and drug to help him sleep.
Most doctors don't take time out to find the Ruth cause of a medical problem you have, if you are not bleeding they are going to drug you, I have seen so much mental sick person who this is what they do drug every day of there life.
Doctors stop being healers a long time ago.
if MJ was sleeping all the nights leading up to the 24 it's tough to make a case saying he was "desperate for sleep" any desperation had to be before Murray come on board, Murray defance say Murray was making MJ sleep for two months, so how desperate could MJ be? When he is use to going days without sleep, really think about it CM lies are waiting for him around the conner
Walgren don't have to answer all the defence theory the fact in the case wii tell the truth,
 
At this point I don't know what theory the defence are coming with because they have flip flap so much it's hard to follow.
At one point it was MJ was so sick and weak, they went and watch 100 hr of tape to see if they could find a sick MJ no such luck, so there gose Karen Faye , then we are on to MJ was so worried about not doing the 50 show because they were too much so he drink propofol in is orange juice.
The we get the MJ was an addict that he play sleep and when Murray leave the room he jump up (with a Iv in his leg and a condom catheter and load with drugs and as per Murray MJ is as blind as a bat without his glasses) take 8 Ativan and the inject 200 mg of propofol all that without leaving a single finger print.
So what is the new theory? And how do they defence when they are changing the "how the what plus who"
 
Autumn II said:
Sorry, but that will be IMPOSSIBLE to prove. So NOW, the defense is saying that "Michael did not drink the propofol. Michael did not ingest eight pills." And NOW? "He injected himself?" And even if he did? That is STILL abandonment, by Murray. The defense should give it UP now.
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Yes the defense should give it up but i doubt they will. They will do/say wharever it takes to get murray off the hook and they wont stop as it is what they are paid to do.
 
Soundmind said:
"The coroner also found that levels of lorazepam were pharmacolgicaly significant, and that they played a contributing role in the death of Mr. Jackson,"
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That is factually incorrect, in terms of Michael's INGESTION, as I'm sure the prosecution will PROVE, easily.

Soundmind said:
They include Randy Phillips from AEG, two detectives and four people who will vouch for Murray's character.
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Randy Phillips has NO knowledge of "pharmacology," at all. Nor, do any of those people know about Murray's "character." That is a NON-issue, when contrasted with what Murray actually DID, or did not do.

Soundmind said:
The prosecution claims the defense results were flawed, showing lorazepam that had built up in Jackson's body for days, not what he took hours before his death..
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Not possible. It's OVER, and the defense needs to give it UP, now.
 
Those of you in the medical field thanks for the info.

I don't get the feeling that Randy will be good for the defense. He will show that Muarry was responsible and was brought in by Michael, which will help the company he works for with that bogus lawsuit.
 
Petrarose said:
Those of you in the medical field thanks for the info.

I don't get the feeling that Randy will be good for the defense. He will show that Muarry was responsible and was brought in by Michael, which will help the company he works for with that bogus lawsuit.
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I can't imagine that Randy would do anything for the defense? WHAT would he say, anyway? That Michael was SICK? Murray was his doctor, and was responsible for his health. The civil suit doesn't concern us now? What MATTERS, is what Murray did or did not do. What he did NOT do, is preserve Michael's health, and his LIFE.
 
I am wondering why the defense would want to call Randy. There has to be a reason he's on the defense witness list.
 
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Soundmind said:
@ Ivy , that was established in that voice recording. The jurors heard from MJ himself how large his dreams were and they know by now he was desperate for sleep which is true , his decision to use propofol came out of desperation . Randy won't really admit they read him thee riot act, Ortega already denied that and Randy knows the Jacksons r waiting to hear that word from him for their lawsuit. The whole he became desperate that day and he self administered could have been refuted if tests were done on hair samples because I'm sure what happened that day was happening everyday MJ went to sleep under Murray's care and the jurors could have seen for themselves there was nothing special and there was no weaning of and all that BS , but hey Walgren chose this path what can we say !!
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murray said himself he gave mj it for every day for two months.his words .agree with ivy re they want philips to talk about any riot act been read. show mj was stressed desperate ect not turning up for rehearsals etc
 
So I was watching TV this morning and they were talking about how Murray's lawyers will say Michael was a desperate man who could not do these shows. It struck me has funny because who has been saying that since Michael died? Karen Faye, Michael Bush, Joe Jackson, Latoya Jackson, Randy Jackson, and a bunch of nut job fans. Everyone who said they "loved" Michael. Let me say this now if Murray gets off it will be the fault of the people I named so eager for attention and money they could not wait to throw Michael under the bus. Now more then ever I am convinced that the entire AEG lawsuit was filed thanks to Karen Faye and her buddy Michael Bush. When that lawsuit is tossed out and if Murray is found not guilty I hope they all feel like shit
 
Justthefacts said:
So I was watching TV this morning and they were talking about how Murray's lawyers will say Michael was a desperate man who could not do these shows. It struck me has funny because who has been saying that since Michael died? Karen Faye, Michael Bush, Joe Jackson, Latoya Jackson, Randy Jackson, and a bunch of nut job fans. Everyone who said they "loved" Michael. Let me say this now if Murray gets off it will be the fault of the people I named so eager for attention and money they could not wait to throw Michael under the bus. Now more then ever I am convinced that the entire AEG lawsuit was filed thanks to Karen Faye and her buddy Michael Bush. When that lawsuit is tossed out and if Murray is found not guilty I hope they all feel like shit
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well said those are my sentiments as well.
 
^^ To be fair, latoya has a more elaborate theory, namely that one or more of the executors/aeg/sony were somehow in that bedroom on 25 june, maybe hiding in the closets, and jumped out syringes at the ready to inject mj when murray went out for his bathroom break. It's surprising the defence haven't thought about using this idea, as they seem to have exhausted every other possiblity. Layoya would be the chief defence witness, she would just refuse to answer all the questions and just tell the jury, 'it's all in my book, buy my book'.
 
elusive moonwalker;3514564 they want philips to talk about any riot act been read. show mj was stressed desperate ect not turning up for rehearsals etc[/QUOTE said:
That's exactly what I was thinking.
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Justthefacts said:
How many syringes did they find in the room?
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Two syringes . Murray said in his interview that he usually uses two syringes to administer meds .The one which was found inserted into the short tubing with a completely depressed plunger had traces of flumazenil, lidocaine and propofol.The other one was found by Fleak on the floor, had propofol and lidocaine and she removed it from the floor and put it on the nightstand table that syringe had no needle part . That's the one they will claim MJ used to overdose. They found traces of propofol and lidocaine in it. As for Latoya: Oxman said one of the syringes had a fingerprint that did not match Murray nor MJ's ( later we discovered it's Fleak) thus the defense should focus on it because someone else might have waited for Murray to leave and killed MJ !!!!
 
Bonnie Blue said:
^^ To be fair, latoya has a more elaborate theory, namely that one or more of the executors/aeg/sony were somehow in that bedroom on 25 june, maybe hiding in the closets, and jumped out syringes at the ready to inject mj when murray went out for his bathroom break. It's surprising the defence haven't thought about using this idea, as they seem to have exhausted every other possiblity. Layoya would be the chief defence witness, she would just refuse to answer all the questions and just tell the jury, 'it's all in my book, buy my book'.
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OK,,,you made me LMAO....:lmao: But on a serious note....the defense strategy of trying to prove their theory is not going to be a picnic for us to get through,,,this is going to be the part of the trial that I have been dreading for the past two years. Heaven only knows WHAT people are gonna try and say, I mean we have heard from all of them so much that we can probably guess. But actually hearing it...is a whole other thing, ..:(
 
Soundmind said:
Two syringes . Murray said in his interview that he usually uses two syringes to administer meds .The one which was found inserted into the short tubing with a completely depressed plunger had traces of flumazenil, lidocaine and propofol.The other one was found by Fleak on the floor, had propofol and lidocaine and she removed it from the floor and put it on the nightstand table that syringe had no needle part . That's the one they will claim MJ used to overdose. They found traces of propofol and lidocaine in it. As for Latoya: Oxman said one of the syringes had a fingerprint that did not match Murray nor MJ's ( later we discovered it's Fleak) thus the defense should focus on it because someone else might have waited for Murray to leave and killed MJ !!!!
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the bolded part...that is the baffling part ..it would be impossible for Michael to inject himself with this syringe with NO needle attached to it. Do they NOT understand that a needle is needed on a syringe for injection.?? Their theory is ridiculous.
 
Kingofpop4ever3000 said:
I am wondering why the defense would want to call Randy. There has to be a reason he's on the defense witness list.
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elusive moonwalker said:
they want philips to talk about any riot act been read. show mj was stressed desperate ect not turning up for rehearsals etc
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Kingofpop4ever3000 said:
That's exactly what I was thinking.
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They could also want him to speak about the equipment request and try to hold AEG accountable for not providing it from the beginning.
 
Good point gerry. although was randy aware of thar email. was it sent to him.

agree thunder im dredding the next week. im just glad they have so few witnesses and it will be over quicker than we thought it would be. i hate the unknown and wonder what ppl like philips will say.just wish there hadnt been the delay as it would have nearly been over by now
 
Soundmind said:
Two syringes . Murray said in his interview that he usually uses two syringes to administer meds .The one which was found inserted into the short tubing with a completely depressed plunger had traces of flumazenil, lidocaine and propofol.The other one was found by Fleak on the floor, had propofol and lidocaine and she removed it from the floor and put it on the nightstand table that syringe had no needle part . That's the one they will claim MJ used to overdose. They found traces of propofol and lidocaine in it. As for Latoya: Oxman said one of the syringes had a fingerprint that did not match Murray nor MJ's ( later we discovered it's Fleak) thus the defense should focus on it because someone else might have waited for Murray to leave and killed MJ !!!!
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xthunderx2 said:
the bolded part...that is the baffling part ..it would be impossible for Michael to inject himself with this syringe with NO needle attached to it. Do they NOT understand that a needle is needed on a syringe for injection.?? Their theory is ridiculous.
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that's what I'm wondering as well. where's the needle for that one. and what about lorazepam & midazolam? where are the syringe(s) with them?

don't you think that some stuff was removed by Murray?
 
Justthefacts said:
So I was watching TV this morning and they were talking about how Murray's lawyers will say Michael was a desperate man who could not do these shows. It struck me has funny because who has been saying that since Michael died? Karen Faye, Michael Bush, Joe Jackson, Latoya Jackson, Randy Jackson, and a bunch of nut job fans. Everyone who said they "loved" Michael. Let me say this now if Murray gets off it will be the fault of the people I named so eager for attention and money they could not wait to throw Michael under the bus. Now more then ever I am convinced that the entire AEG lawsuit was filed thanks to Karen Faye and her buddy Michael Bush. When that lawsuit is tossed out and if Murray is found not guilty I hope they all feel like shit
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Not sure why it would MATTER? Murray was Michael's doctor! In that role, he had ultimate responsibility for Michael's health. The matter before the court is the prosecution's charges that Murray's extreme treatment (propofol) and neglect killed Michael. IF Michael was ill, all the more reason to care for him properly? Isn't that only logical?
 
Soundmind said:
Two syringes . Murray said in his interview that he usually uses two syringes to administer meds .The one which was found inserted into the short tubing with a completely depressed plunger had traces of flumazenil, lidocaine and propofol.The other one was found by Fleak on the floor, had propofol and lidocaine and she removed it from the floor and put it on the nightstand table that syringe had no needle part . That's the one they will claim MJ used to overdose. They found traces of propofol and lidocaine in it. As for Latoya: Oxman said one of the syringes had a fingerprint that did not match Murray nor MJ's ( later we discovered it's Fleak) thus the defense should focus on it because someone else might have waited for Murray to leave and killed MJ !!!!
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The fact that Michael's fingerprints were not found on the syringes is one thing that I keep wishing would be brought up in court once that fact was established. I hope the jury don't forget it. As for someone else waiting for Murray to leave and then killing Michael, personally I'm not sure I believe that. But to me, even if it was a possibility, it's something that is not being pursued because the defense seem to have themselves set on blaming Michael for everything. But anyway, I wish the fingerprint issue would be talked about. Because how can they say that Michael self-injected when his fingerprints were not on the needles? This is all just my opinion.
 
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