Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

[crillon]

I would like to hear others thoughts of this part of Randy's depostion:
Randy: My dad and I tried to get the house at Carolwood. They wouldn't let me through. My brother didn't want me to see him like that.

I think this is pure speculation on Randy's part to fit the scenario he's trying to "sell." Michael would not let Randy (and other family members) in to see him--whether it was Neverland, Las Vegas or the house at Carolwood. We can guess at Michael's reasons, but it wasn't due to drugs. The likely explanation is one fans & MJ inner circle are familiar with--pitching Michael on some money-making scheme, tour, whatever. Even Katherine (who Michael did see occasionally) was in deal-pitching mode with her son on behalf of her deadbeat cubs. Even now, in this trial, that pattern hasn't changed. It's still about the money.

 

[jaydom7]

I just remember in April/May 2009, Katherine , Joe and Leonard Rowe were at the Beverly Hilton with MJ and Randy Phillips discussing the ALLGOOD mess and the TII shows. If Katherine, as a mother was so concerned about her son's addiction issues and his health or thin appearance, then would've been a good time to intervene and tell the head honcho Randy Phillips that she was concerned about MJ and his health and mental state. Not one peep from any of them. Leonard Rowe did say later in his book that he noticed how frail and thin MJ was yet I guess Katherine didn't notice a thing.

I am just too outdone by this family. How does Katherine expect AEG to watch out for MJ's health and safety when she herself didn't seem to care about it?

 

[Soundmind]

well, Randy Jackson should educate his mother on MJ's weight , according to him MJ was only 90 pounds which meant he was emaciated way before AEG came into the picture . God , did he miss any opportunity to lie in that deposition ? 90 pounds Randy ? 90 pounds really ? !!

If I were AEG I would replay Randy's deposition as a closing argument .

 

[Snow White luvs Peter Pan]

^^How the hell did he get that weight? The autopsy reported 136pds and doctors who treated Michael in the past said he weighted 126pds or something like that. How disastrous is RJ testimony for the Jacksons?

 

[#MJforever57]

Katherine Jackson could be sitting at home surrounded by the love of Michael Jackson's beautiful children; instead she is sitting in a court room day after day. I'm sure Michael Jackson is so....disappointed.

Very diisappointed.

 

[Mneme]

If you listen to his siblings talk about him they are void of love except for maybe Jackie who tends to breakdown when speaking about MJ, but the others are just so cold to me. I said that about Janet years ago. When MJ died I saw no tears or pain from her and she was just cold talking about leading horses to water. Rebbie is just smug to me and she was laughing talking about interventions and crashing gates. What is funny about that?

well, Randy Jackson should educate his mother on MJ's weight , according to him MJ was only 90 pounds which meant he was emaciated way before AEG came into the picture . God , did he miss any opportunity to lie in that deposition ? 90 pounds Randy ? 90 pounds really ? !!
If I were AEG I would replay Randy's deposition as a closing argument.

For me it is not only an simple understatement about Michael's weight.
That "But he was 90 pounds, it wouldn't do much." is contemptuous and humiliating. I mean: Why he draws such pathetic and puny picture about his dead brother?
90 Pound are 40,8 kilogramm. That is more than unrealistic! It is simply spiteful.
Everybody knows this cannot be right, Randy too. And, nevertheless, Randy had to say it. As a sort of compulsive act.


No, jaydom is right. There was and there is no love, respect and grief about Michael's passing. (imho)

 

[twinklEE]

For me it is not only an simple understatement about Michael's weight.
That "But he was 90 pounds, it wouldn't do much." is contemptuous and humiliating. I mean: Why he draws such pathetic and puny picture about his dead brother?
90 Pound are 40,8 kilogramm. That is more than unrealistic! It is simply spiteful.
Everybody knows this cannot be right, Randy too. And, nevertheless, Randy had to say it. As a sort of compulsive act.


No, jaydom is right. There was and there is no love, respect and grief about Michael's passing. (imho)

There has never been any. Soundmind, Jadom a couple of others including myself have been saying this since day#1. The ****ery has continued to unfold in the years since Michael's death, and to this day we have the same opinion when it comes to Michael's relatives.

 

[Petrarose]

Bubs I found the information about why Michael went to the hospital:

1)In his book Jermaine said he got a call from mother and he went to the hospital. At the hospital was mother, Joe, and Jermaine only. Randy was NOT there. Michael said he fell getting out of the shower in Neverland. Jermaine said what Michael had on, which is the same pajama we see in the photos. Jermaine said Michael winced in pain too, which was from his ribs and lower back.

Jermain also said this on TV:
BEHAR: You were worried maybe he would not get off -- the charges would not be dropped.

JACKSON: He would not get a fair trial. After hearing the judge say when he had fallen, he went to the hospital and came back, the judge said, if he`s not back in 45 minutes, we`re sending him to jail. This is what they wanted to do. -


2) Then he talked about a 1990 incident: (got from Ivy's summaries)

1990 news stories that Michael was taken to hospital with chest pains. Jermaine visits him. Michael says he didn't have chest pains but having throbbing pain , headaches. He was getting Demerol via IV.


So where did Randy get the story that Michael told him he was not sick but said he was sick so he wouldn't have to go to the court. Where was Randy for Michel to say "no I won't go?" I also remember that the bodyguards talked about rushing out to get Michael and drive like crazy to the courthouse, because they were late and the judge gave that threat. No one mentioned any Randy.

How many lies will Randy tell on his dead brother, in order to get money from his death???

 

[Tygger]

Will someone explain how Randy’s past connects in any form to AEG’s actions and reactions to Michael and the doctor? Also, how Randy’s testimony supports the defense’s argument that Michael was secretive with his issues and did not want help. I am sure the explanation is simple however; I am having difficulty finding the logic in it.

 

[ivy]

I would be remiss not to bring these posts to attention.

correct way to do that would be to report. Not all mods read all the threads or all posts in full detail and no mod can go back tens of pages reading hundreds of posts and looking for portions to edit. plus mods rarely edit on their own. Let's not forget that moderators are volunteers with real lives & jobs, they aren't machines. So the correct format is to report the specific posts , that would both help the moderators, bring such posts properly to attention and ensure an action.

 

[Soundmind]

Will someone explain how Randy’s past connects in any form to AEG’s actions and reactions to Michael and the doctor? Also, how Randy’s testimony supports the defense’s argument that Michael was secretive with his issues and did not want help. I am sure the explanation is simple however; I am having difficulty finding the logic in it.

Well, their whole case is based on AEG's failure to intervene , an intervention that according to them would have resulted in a long ass career , 300 concerts and billions of dollars in income , yet they themselves claim they staged 9 unsuccessful interventions , he lied to them , he could not be saved , they were not able to save him , he run away from them , he was only 90 pounds , he faked insomnia, faked illness , used his kids nanny to feed his addiction ....etc you see no problem with this scenario ? How do you expect a jury to held AEG responsible for someone like that ?

 

[Member Service]

While we allow all to express opinions we do not allow calling people out of thier name or unfounded conspiracy views to attack AEG or the Jackson's. So please Members report such post and they will be reviewed by staff. We will discuss and take the appropriate action. It is impossible to see or read every post. We rely on members to help us in this matter. It doesn't matter what side the issue you stand on. But when a members takes it upon themselves to call out or scold members publically, instead of reporting a post it tends to lead to arguments and derails. No need to imply or accuse the MJJC staff of bias. Some posts were already edited in regards to this issue. So members please Just report any such posts to bring them to our attention. Your help is much appreciate.

Please Do not futher derail this thread with that discussion. Post of that nature will be removed without notice to protect the thread from a derail. If you have any issues PM or report

 

[That Other Fan]

Will someone explain how Randy’s past connects in any form to AEG’s actions and reactions to Michael and the doctor? Also, how Randy’s testimony supports the defense’s argument that Michael was secretive with his issues and did not want help. I am sure the explanation is simple however; I am having difficulty finding the logic in it.

Simple. It doesn't.

Despite what everyone is saying.

What Randy said is what the jury already knows. Michael had on/off addiction issues with prescription meds. Those that truly cared in his inner circle and his family intervened and Michael did in fact show signs rehabilitating his issues, though there were relapses.

That's not going to sway the jury one way or the other because they've heard it ad nauseum throughout this trial. The totality of the evidence is what the jury will base it's decision on...

There is a good chance the Jacksons may lose. There is a good chance the Jacksons may win.

What you are seeing is the disdain for the Jackson family as a whole playing out once again. They didn't care enough to be there for him as he battled with his prescription med issue, but they are also "liars" if they talk about interventions that took place... according to some.

 

[ivy]

Simple. It doesn't.

Despite what everyone is saying.

really?

Let's go over Randy's testimony

- he did not know about insomnia, he did not know about anesthesia , he did not know Propofol ---> Exact same thing AEG says. As we can see from their motion of nonsuit, they will argue in their closing "if people closest to Michael did not know his insomnia and propofol use, how could we know?" (negligent hiring claim requires to be able to foresee a particular risk).


- talked to his family about Michael being an addict and not being responsible ---> exact argument of AEG. the law requires AEG to be a substantial factor in Michael's death. However the jury thinks Michael's an addict and he tend to put himself into dangerous situations or near death experiences (reaction under anesthesia by Fournier, Randy's doctor reviving him, Bodyguard Mike reviving him) , they can put the responsibility on Michael and not AEG.


- portrayed an addict that required multiple interventions and still refused to go to rehab & relapses etc. --> hurts life expectancy & damages. Jacksons 1.5 Billion damages require Michael to be able to tour and do a lot of other projects until 66 years old. AEG has 2 experts of their own and one Jackson expert who says that people with dependency issues are highly likely to die prematurely from accidental overdose.

 

[That Other Fan]

really?

Let's go over Randy's testimony

- he did not know about insomnia, he did not know about anesthesia , he did not know Propofol ---> Exact same thing AEG says. As we can see from their motion of nonsuit, they will argue in their closing "if people closest to Michael did not know his insomnia and propofol use, how could we know?" (negligent hiring claim requires to be able to foresee a particular risk).


- talked to his family about Michael being an addict and not being responsible ---> exact argument of AEG. the law requires AEG to be a substantial factor in Michael's death. However the jury thinks Michael's an addict and he tend to put himself into dangerous situations or near death experiences (reaction under anesthesia by Fournier, Randy's doctor reviving him, Bodyguard Mike reviving him) , they can put the responsibility on Michael and not AEG.


- portrayed an addict that required multiple interventions and still refused to go to rehab & relapses etc. --> hurts life expectancy & damages. Jacksons 1.5 Billion damages require Michael to be able to tour and do a lot of other projects until 66 years old. AEG has 2 experts of their own and one Jackson expert who says that people with dependency issues are highly likely to die prematurely from accidental overdose.

- AEG suspected drugs and misconduct of a doctor. Phillips, for some reason, suspected Klein and not Murray though... which makes absolutely no sense. If anything, he should have suspected both. Also, no where does it state that AEG had to know what methods Murray was treating Michael with. Which has already been established.

- The jury has heard ad nauseam about Michael's struggle with prescription meds. That isn't a new revelation coming out in Randy's testimony. It has also been stated that the Jacksons tried to intervene.

- The jury also heard about Michael's attempts to take care of the issue on his own. Yes, the family tried to intervene. Yes, Michael refused the help, but as we seen, Michael was trying to deal with it on his own. Given his position and celebrity, it's understandable, though perhaps not the most beneficial in retrospect.


So again...


"How Randy’s testimony supports the defense’s argument?"


Simple. It doesn't.


It's not some shocking revelation that we're just learning via Randy's testimony. Everyone just has their own personal opinions about Randy, which everyone is well within their rights to have. That, however, doesn't make his testimony damaging or the turning point for AEG being found not liable/responsible. The jury will weigh the evidence in it's entirety.

 

[Soundmind]

Simple. It doesn't.

Despite what everyone is saying.

What Randy said is what the jury already knows. Michael had on/off addiction issues with prescription meds. Those that truly cared in his inner circle and his family intervened and Michael did in fact show signs rehabilitating his issues, though there were relapses.

That's not going to sway the jury one way or the other because they've heard it ad nauseum throughout this trial. The totality of the evidence is what the jury will base it's decision on...

There is a good chance the Jacksons may lose. There is a good chance the Jacksons may win.

What Randy Jackson said was a bunch of lies , Randy Jackson was and is a defrauder , he was called out by MJ himself in 2007 , he was fired by MJ , was not allowed into his house for years , it's insulting to claim he cared about MJ , the way he treated MJ's kids is a clear indication how much hate and resentment he had for Mike .

He had some nerve talking about responsibility when MJ took care of his children since forever ; even now if it was not for the estate Randy's kids would be in the streets .

 

[ivy]

What you are seeing is the disdain for the Jackson family as a whole playing out once again. They didn't care enough to be there for him as he battled with his prescription med issue, but they are also "liars" if they talk about interventions that took place... according to some.

I disagree with this. There are some fans that are sensitive about the addiction claims and angry against anyone and everyone that portrays Michael as an addict whether it is AEG or Randy or any fellow fan. So that disdain isn't limited to Randy.

Michael having issues and people trying to help him is good and kudos to Randy for trying but that's not the issue on this trial.

What is going on is that there is a lot of "impeachment" going on, in testimony and out of court. For example Jackson's put an addiction expert on stand who said Michael was clean for 13 years or so but Randy places 7-10 interventions between 1993 and 2009, impeaching their own expert.

Outside court TMez impeached Katherine in regards to Randy's involvement in this case. Randy and Leonard Rowe differ about whether some of these events are interventions or to get Michael tour with the brothers. And that "we are so close" are becoming more and more of a fable...

That, however, doesn't make his testimony damaging or the turning point for AEG being found not liable/responsible. The jury will weigh the evidence in it's entirety.

yes and that means neither you nor anyone would know if Randy's deposition helped or did not help AEG until the verdict. If AEG loses we can conclude that nothing they presented has helped them. If they win well it would mean their strategy worked, doesn't it? Until the verdict, it is your opinion that Randy's testimony did not help AEG, and someone might disagree with you on that regard.

 

[passy001]

- AEG suspected drugs and misconduct of a doctor. Phillips, for some reason, suspected Klein and not Murray though... which makes absolutely no sense. If anything, he should have suspected both. Also, no where does it state that AEG had to know how what methods Murray was treating Michael with. Which has already been established.

It made no sense to suspect Murray since Murray had been MJ personal doctor since 2006 with no record of any prior incident or misconduct. Klein on the other hand was a suspect because his cosmetic treatment of MJ was interfering with the treatment of Murray, who may i remind you was responsible for making sure MJ was fit for the concert.

- The jury has heard ad nauseam about Michael's struggle with prescription meds. That isn't a new revelation coming out in Randy's testimony. It has also been stated that the Jacksons tried to intervene.

Prior to randy's testimony the jury never heard of MJ's extensive struggles with drugs between 1993 and 2009. most of his struggles that were heard were related to pain killers. and that was in 1993. In fact the jacksons had an expert/doctor testifying that MJ had been clean since 1993. so randy's testimony is impeaching the plaintiffs' own witness.

- The jury also heard about Michael's attempts to take care of the issue on his own. Yes, the family tried to intervene. Yes, Michael refused the help, but as we seen, Michael was trying to deal with it on his own. Given his position and celebrity it's understandable, though perhaps not the most beneficial in retrospect.

This actually proves AEG point. MJ was secretive, understandably so. therefore AEG could not have known of his issues.

So again...


"How Randy’s testimony supports the defense’s argument?"


Simple. It doesn't.


It's not some shocking revelation that we're just learning via Randy's testimony. Everyone just has their own personal opinions about Randy, which everyone is well within their rights to have. That, however, doesn't make his testimony damaging or the turning point for AEG being found not liable/responsible. The jury will weigh the evidence in it's entirety.

Trust me . this testimony is very damaging. first it shows that the family were the only ones aware of his issues. and despite several interventions attempts could not help him. Given this, it is unreasonable to expect AEG, a complete stranger, to miraculously help MJ. if the people closest to him could not manage to help him, what were the chances of AEG to be succesful?

there is also the damage amount bit. the jacksons claim $1.5B in damages as MJ would have been performing till 65 had he survived. let me tell you this, a person with the kinds of problems MJ was facing would never achieve that feat. a man with sever drug addictions performing till the age of 65? not a chance. it's even worse when you take the fact that MJ escaped death before had it not for his own children calling 911.

It's no wonder Panish did not put this guy on the stand.

 

[Soundmind]

I disagree with this. There are some fans that are sensitive about the addiction claims and angry against anyone and everyone that portrays Michael as an addict whether it is AEG or Randy or any fellow fan. So that disdain isn't limited to Randy.

Michael having issues and people trying to help him is good and kudos to Randy for trying but that's not the issue on this trial.

What is going on is that there is a lot of "impeachment" going on, in testimony and out of court. For example Jackson's put an addiction expert on stand who said Michael was clean for 13 years or so but Randy places 7-10 interventions between 1993 and 2009, impeaching their own expert.

Outside court TMez impeached Katherine in regards to Randy's involvement in this case. Randy and Leonard Rowe differ about whether some of these events are interventions or to get Michael tour with the brothers. And that "we are so close" are becoming more and more of a fable...




yes and that means neither you nor anyone would know if Randy's deposition helped or did not help AEG until the verdict. If AEG loses we can conclude that nothing they presented has helped them. If they win well it would mean their strategy worked, doesn't it? Until the verdict, it is your opinion that Randy's testimony did not help AEG, and someone might disagree with you on that regard.

We should applaud them , we should thank everyone who calls MJ an addict , right ?

 

[ivy]

- AEG suspected drugs and misconduct of a doctor. Phillips, for some reason, suspected Klein and not Murray though... which makes absolutely no sense. If anything, he should have suspected both.

It made no sense to suspect Murray since Murray had been MJ personal doctor with no record of any prior incident or misconduct. Klein on the other hand was a suspect because his cosmetic treatment of MJ was interfering with the treatment of Murray, who may i remind you was responsible for making sure MJ was fit for the concert.

actually suspecting Klein made sense because they saw Michael loopy after he came from Klein. For a layperson: just came from Klein = loopy = under influence = Klein giving something is an easy conclusion to make. They did not have a similar experience with Murray and as testimony showed even Ortega and Karen Faye thought the June 19 issues were emotional - not drug related.

 

[ivy]

We should applaud them , we should thank everyone who calls MJ an addict , right ?

chill, I did not say such thing. That Other Fan claimed the anger towards Randy was just the disdain towards Jackson family. I said no that's not true Some fans - you being a perfect example - are angry with anyone and everyone who calls Michael an addict. It's not limited to Randy or Jacksons.

The second part was about anyone - whether Randy or not - helping Michael through his hard times - whether it's a problem with drugs or anything else. Everyone that stood for/with Michael when he needed them deserves a kudos. For example I am also grateful for Elizabeth Taylor for convincing Michael to go to rehab in 1993. If you disagree with that , fine.

I understand your position is no issues with drugs = no intervention = everyone lying = no thanks for intervention /help attempts but perhaps you can chill and dial down the attacks on other fans.

 

[qbee]

We should applaud them , we should thank everyone who calls MJ an addict , right ?

No one is applauding or even agreeing with all that is said, and Ivy is Just stating what testimony is being brought forth and comparing how it relates as far as being damaging or not to the other side.

 

[That Other Fan]

What Randy Jackson said was a bunch of lies , Randy Jackson was and is a defrauder , he was called out by MJ himself in 2007 , he was fired by MJ , was not allowed into his house for years , it's insulting to claim he cared about MJ , the way he treated MJ's kids is a clear indication how much hate and resentment he had for Mike .


He had some nerve talking about responsibility when MJ took care of his children since forever ; even now if it was not for the estate Randy's kids would be in the streets .

Michael didn't call out Randy. Michael called out Don Stabler. The rest was filled in by the writer of the article. Read Michael's comments carefully.


I wouldn't want to deal anyone that questioned whether I was truly "black"... simply because I wouldn't sign a piece of paper. That is outlandish and I don't blame Michael for not wanting work with the guy after that (also including the fact that the deal wasn't that great). However, Michael comments didn't implicate Randy as knowingly trying to defraud him... only the Stabler.

I disagree with this. There are some fans that are sensitive about the addiction claims and angry against anyone and everyone that portrays Michael as an addict whether it is AEG or Randy or any fellow fan. So that disdain isn't limited to Randy.

Michael having issues and people trying to help him is good and kudos to Randy for trying but that's not the issue on this trial.

What is going on is that there is a lot of "impeachment" going on, in testimony and out of court. For example Jackson's put an addiction expert on stand who said Michael was clean for 13 years or so but Randy places 7-10 interventions between 1993 and 2009, impeaching their own expert.

Outside court TMez impeached Katherine in regards to Randy's involvement in this case. Randy and Leonard Rowe differ about whether some of these events are interventions or to get Michael tour with the brothers. And that "we are so close" are becoming more and more of a fable...

Well, we will agree to disagree. There is disdain when the Jacksons talk about it, but it's "AEG has to defend themselves" when AEG discusses it. That's a double standard.

That's what I've seen. Not from everyone, but from quite a few. That's why you have some claiming the interventions never happened, etc

I didn't say members of the family didn't have other motives. Whether that be to get Michael to do a family tour, etc. There were a lot of talk at the time about what Michael was going to do. A family tour, a residency in vegas, a full blown worldwide tour, etc.

Those other motives doesn't mean the interventions didn't take place, and/or it wasn't a conflict of interest to try and intervene on a serious issue with Michael, but at the same time be trying to get him to agree to a family tour.

yes and that means neither you nor anyone would know if Randy's deposition helped or did not help AEG until the verdict. If AEG loses we can conclude that nothing they presented has helped them. If they win well it would mean their strategy worked, doesn't it? Until the verdict, it is your opinion that Randy's testimony did not help AEG, and someone might disagree with you on that regard.

It's all opinion.

I provided an opinion (backed up with logic) of why it does Randy's deposition doesn't necessarily help the defense and kill the case for the family, which is the overwhelming opinion. Just because I'm in the minority, it doesn't mean I'm wrong, and yes time will tell. It can literally go either way.. which I also said in my initial post.

 

[That Other Fan]

It made no sense to suspect Murray since Murray had been MJ personal doctor with no record of any prior incident or misconduct. Klein on the other hand was a suspect because his cosmetic treatment of MJ was interfering with the treatment of Murray, who may i remind you was responsible for making sure MJ was fit for the concert.

That makes absolutely no logical sense. If you suspect doctor misconduct, it makes no sense to suspect one doctor and not at least have slight suspicion of the doctor that Michael wants as his personal physician.

The logical approach would be to be suspicious of both.

Instead AEG put more pressure on Murray to make sure Michael showed up for rehearsals.

Prior to randy's testimony the jury never heard of MJ's extensive struggles with drugs between 1993 and 2009. most of his struggles that were heard were related to pain killers.

The jury has heard extensively about how much Michael struggled. Treatments that he received, etc. It's not new in that respect.

This actually proves AEG point. MJ was secretive, understandably therefore they could not have known of his issues.

No, it doesn't... because the signs were there that something was wrong leading up to June 25th. You can't claim someone is secretive when it's right there in front of your face and/or you're being told about it by people rehearsing with Michael.

Trust me . this testimony is very damaging. first it shows that the family were the only ones aware of his issues. and despite several interventions attempts could not help him. Given this, it is unreasonable to expect AEG, a complete stranger, to miraculously help MJ. if the people closest to him could not manage to help him, what were the chances of AEG to be succesful?

there is also the damage amount bit. the jacksons claim $1.5B in damages as MJ would have been performing till 65 had he survived. let me tell you this, a person with the kinds of problems MJ was facing would never achieve that feat. a severly drug addicted performing till the age of 65? not a chance. it's even worse when you take the fact that MJ escaped death before had it not for his own children calling 911.

It's no wonder Panish did not put this guy on the stand.

It's no more damaging than what's already been revealed in this trial. Randy's testimony won't be the turning point one way or the other for the the jury. That's what I'm pointing out.

 

[ivy]

There is disdain when the Jacksons talk about it, but it's "AEG has to defend themselves" when AEG discusses it. That's a double standard.

Well as I wrote multiple times before and have been attacked for it before, I don't share the pink glasses view of "Michael had no problems with drugs". At least the 2002 Neverland intervention is quite certain for me. At least seeking implants shows the presence of some sort of problem for me. However for some of the alleged interventions , I'm not sure if those were an intervention or had other motives - which makes me classify them as not interventions.

That being said I would think that everyone would agree that AEG and Jacksons are quite different, one of them is the family and other one is a corporation. I don't think anyone expects them to approach to Michael with the same level of love, respect and loyalty. Also you need to consider how and why these topics are being talked right now. Jacksons are the ones that filed the lawsuit and they are pursuing this lawsuit knowing very well that Michael's whole medical history and past issues with drugs will be paraded for the whole world to see. Jacksons opened the door for this and that could anger some people a lot more than AEG walking through the other door.

But let me guess , now you will tell me "so what Jacksons opened the door, AEG could have taken the moral high ground in their defense " argument, right? I find it interesting that people simultaneously think AEG's actions and lack of care killed Michael but also expect them to maintain some sort of high morals during this trial. quite oxymoron if you ask me.

 

[passy001]

That makes absolutely no logical sense. If you suspect doctor misconduct, it makes no sense to suspect one doctor and not at least have slight suspicion of the doctor that Michael wants as his personal physician.

The logical approach would be to be suspicious of both.

Instead AEG put more pressure on Murray to make sure Michael showed up for rehearsals.

That makes absolutely no logical sense. Suspecting a doctor who has been treating someone with no problems for three years.

The jury has heard extensively about how much Michael struggled. Treatments that he received, etc. It's not new in that respect.

Did the jury hear about his extensive struggles between 1993 and 2009 before this testimony?

No, it doesn't... because the signs were there that something was wrong leading up to June 25th. You can't claim someone is secretive when it's right there in front of your face and/or you're being told about it by people rehearsing with Michael.

Oh MJ had insomnia and everyone knew? MJ was using propopol and everyone knew? you must be good at reading signs.

It's no more damaging than what's already been revealed in this trial. Randy's testimony won't be the turning point one way or the other for the the jury. That's what I'm pointing out.

It only adds to the damage stack. that's the whole point. rather than limiting the damages, the testimony is making it worse.

 

[That Other Fan]

Well as I wrote multiple times before and have been attacked for it before, don't share the pink glasses view of "no problems with drugs". At least the 2002 Neverland intervention is quite certain for me. For some of the alleged interventions , I'm not sure if those were an intervention or had other motives.

That being said I would think that everyone would agree that AEG and Jacksons are quite different, one of them is the family and other one is a corporation. also you need to consider how and why these topics are being talked right now. Jacksons are the ones that filed the lawsuit and they are pursuing this lawsuit knowing very well that Michael's whole medical history and past issues with drugs will be paraded. Jacksons opened the door for this and that could anger some people a lot more than AEG walking through the other door. But let me guess , now you will tell me "so what Jacksons opened the door, AEG could have taken the moral high ground " argument, right? I find it funny that people simultaneously think AEG's actions and lack of care killed Michael but also expect them to maintain some sort of morals during this trial. quite oxymoron if you ask me.

Thank you for reading my mind on what my response would be. lol

No, I understand people being against this trial. There are many legitimate reasons that can be made for this trial not taking place. I understand people not wanting the information being paraded out and making international headlines. I understand people feeling this somehow damages Michael's legacy. I understand being concerned about the well being of Michael's children and not wanting to see them being put through this. I get it.

However, I also feel the double standard needs to be removed from how some (not all... I must stress this) feel about and talk about this situation. You can't get upset at the Jackson for talking about Michael's issues, call it lies, etc... but then at the same time go out of your way to defend AEG's actions, simply because you don't want the Jacksons to win. That's what I see, and that's how I feel about what I've seen within the fan community.

I feel there has to be acceptance. Michael had legitimate health issues, and on top of that, emotional turmoil that few have faced in a 90/100 year lifetime much less 50 years. I understand his struggles.

I feel that the anger within the fan community first began with members of the family openly discussing Michael's battles. Then it turned to "they are lying", etc. The disappointment has been allowed to manifested itself into outright anger and vitriol for the family no matter what the situation is. I don't agree with it and the fans especially lose me when they start talking negatively about Katherine.

 

[That Other Fan]

That makes absolutely no logical sense. Suspecting a doctor who has been treating someone with no problems for three years.

If I suspect doctor misconduct, I suspect every known doctor involved unless a full investigation proves otherwise.

 

[crillon]

For me it is not only an simple understatement about Michael's weight.
That "But he was 90 pounds, it wouldn't do much." is contemptuous and humiliating. I mean: Why he draws such pathetic and puny picture about his dead brother?
90 Pound are 40,8 kilogramm. That is more than unrealistic! It is simply spiteful.
Everybody knows this cannot be right, Randy too. And, nevertheless, Randy had to say it. As a sort of compulsive act.


No, jaydom is right. There was and there is no love, respect and grief about Michael's passing. (imho)

I agree--it's contemptuous and I'll add, arrogant and disrespectful. It's also not a realistic assessment. I think Randy said that weight for effect and to make the point of how thin Michael was by using exaggeration--not because he actually thought he weighed that amount. There's no way he could know Michael's wieght. And, yes, it was an unloving, harsh thing to say about a beloved family member. But, Randy doesn't know the meaning of the word "love." imo

 

[somewhereinthedark]

The problem that I have with this family is that they waited until Michael was MURDERED before they came forward with this so-called "drug addict" story and so-called ""interventions". I want all of the Jackson Defenders to remember that this is the SAME family who was badgering Michael NON-STOP to tour with THEM. IF these "addict" stories (and I don't believe them) are true, then WHY would his own family want him to tour with THEM? This doesn't make sense. Put yourselves in this family's place, If YOUR loved one was in as bad a shape as Randy, Janet and the rest claim, would you ask that loved one to do a grueling tour with you? Their assertions have no validity or logic to them. Not one time, did this family ever say anything about this while Michael was alive. The ONLY reason that this "family of greed" is doing this NOW, is because I think they are COWARDS. They wouldn't have dared to say or do the things that they are doing now, when Michael was alive. Michael is not here to defend himself and Randy and others in that family are classless enough to throw him under the bus. Again, this family is the lowest of the low and I have nothing but contempt for their actions since Michael was murdered. I am hoping that they lose this lawsuit and if they win, I hope that AEG appeals and ties the money up for YEARS. The bottomline is that all that Katherine wants is MONEY. I don't think she cares about justice, or she would have accepted restitution from the REAL murderer, Conrad Murray. Btw, I don't give a damn about AEG and hate them with a passion. However, AEG did not murder Michael, Conrad Murray did and the Jacksons have basically given them a free pass for murdering Michael. They only care about $$$ and I hope they fail in this endeavor.