Possible reason 3T (Taj, Taryll & TJ) are against the Cascio track??

[diana79]

I lost a lot of respect for 3T during this whole mess. If they honestly believe that 3 songs are fakes, why aren't they doing more than tweeting about it? They need to hire a lawyer.

Also, if they think that 30% of the songs are partially faked, why are they telling their twitter followers to buy the album? They mentioned something about MJ's "legacy," but, come on. MJ's legacy is set. If they can prove that the songs are fake, I can't see how low sales of an album with fake songs will affect Michael's legacy.

Finally, at what point would they say, "OK, there are too many fake songs, don't buy the album." We're supposedly already at 30%. What if 50% of the songs were fake? What if 9 of the songs were fake - should we still buy the album to support the one real song and Michael's legacy? LOL

I really hope 3T does something serious to get this situation resolved, or they just stop with the accusations. They're not helping,.

 

[Mack]

I lost a lot of respect for 3T during this whole mess. If they honestly believe that 3 songs are fakes, why aren't they doing more than tweeting about it? They need to hire a lawyer.

Also, if they think that 30% of the songs are partially faked, why are they telling their twitter followers to buy the album? They mentioned something about MJ's "legacy," but, come on. MJ's legacy is set. If they can prove that the songs are fake, I can't see how low sales of an album with fake songs will affect Michael's legacy.

Finally, at what point would they say, "OK, there are too many fake songs, don't buy the album." We're supposedly already at 30%. What if 50% of the songs were fake? What if 9 of the songs were fake - should we still buy the album to support the one real song and Michael's legacy? LOL

I really hope 3T does something serious to get this situation resolved, or they just stop with the accusations. They're not helping,.

3T can't do anything. Their hands are tied. If the executors of the estate submit these tracks to Sony, and say they are to be released... there is nothing Sony or 3T can do about it.

All Sony do, is distribute and market the material... they are at the mercy of the estate, for a fact. Someone within the estate is pushing for these songs to be released. All the family KNOW these songs are fake, apart from a couple who are going along with this fiasco for their own personal reasons (probably money related). The estate releases stuff over a majority vote, so it would be very easy for people to gang up and out vote the family.

 

[la_cienega]

Eddie Cascio and Mike in 2007

The BG on fbook have said they were there in 2007 when Mike was recording his album.

 

[Mack]

Eddie Cascio and Mike in 2007

The BG on fbook have said they were there in 2007 when Mike was recording his album.

Michael should've punched him for real. I would be happy to.

 

[la_cienega]

Michael should've punched him for real. I would be happy to.

Then do it. You have as many rights as everyone else to file consumer fraud.

John McClain is an executor, he could also do something about this too.

We're talking criminal acts here.

 

[rainny]

Re: Possible reason 3T & family are against the Cascio track??

his own forensic reports ??

the guy has No money

Huh? 3T have no money?

 

[tricia70]

Re: Possible reason 3T & family are against the Cascio track??

All this talk about fake vocals, started with 3t and the fans ran with it. The Jacksons are very good at planting seeds of doubt, I truly believe they will never be happy with anything that Sony or the Estate does.

And why? because the Jacksons do not and will never have control of Michael's estate. His children will at some point, and hopefuly by then these kids will understand the "family's" agenda.

It was very clear Michael did not want his family messing with his legacy. And the Jackson don't like it. period.

 

[JMie]

3T can't do anything. Their hands are tied. If the executors of the estate submit these tracks to Sony, and say they are to be released... there is nothing Sony or 3T can do about it.

All Sony do, is distribute and market the material... they are at the mercy of the estate, for a fact. Someone within the estate is pushing for these songs to be released. All the family KNOW these songs are fake, apart from a couple who are going along with this fiasco for their own personal reasons (probably money related). The estate releases stuff over a majority vote, so it would be very easy for people to gang up and out vote the family.

you do realise that misleading the public and releasing an album with fake vocals is a serious crime? so saying that they can't do everything is wrong. is they have real proof they should go to the authorities. twitter wars won't change anything. but it seems like the only thing that the Jacksons are capable of is b*tching on twitter.

 

[Mack]

Then do it. You have as many rights as everyone else to file consumer fraud.

John McClain is an executor, he could also do something about this too.

McClain isn't as against this as Jackie Jackson tried to make out... trust me.

 

[ivy]

3T can't do anything. Their hands are tied. If the executors of the estate submit these tracks to Sony, and say they are to be released... there is nothing Sony or 3T can do about it.

sorry but this is wrong. Katherine (and of course Mj's kids) is a beneficiary of the estate hence it makes her interested party in all estate matters. 3T are also contingent beneficiaries and it also makes them interested parties.

Therefore they could have taken legal action. Even if their concerns about the album were rejected by the estate and Sony, they could have gone to court and get an injunction on the release of the album until the matters were resolved.

furthermore not only Jacksons but any person also can file for a consumer fraud lawsuit - once the album released with "fake" songs.

So there are legal actions possible and no one's hands are tied.

 

[JMie]

Michael should've punched him for real. I would be happy to.

they were true friends, never sold him to tabloids. there's no leaked footage, no leaked photos and the Cascios were friends with Michael for many many years so obviously they have a lot of stories to tell. yet they stay quiet and respect Michael unlike all his relatives and self-proclaimed friends who are everywhere exploiting his name. I remember them from HIStory tour in Moscow, they were travelling with Michael then. I trust the Cascios.

 

[di12]

Re: Possible reason 3T & family are against the Cascio track??

Exactly!
I am so tired of all this and honestly, I am beyond caring what anyone has to say, or who claims to know the "truth". Nothing will stop me from buying this album. NOTHING!

me too

 

[Mack]

you do realise that misleading the public and releasing an album with fake vocals is a serious crime? so saying that they can't do everything is wrong. is they have real proof they should go to the authorities. twitter wars won't change anything. but it seems like the only thing that the Jacksons are capable of is b*tching on twitter.

If the songs are "authenticated" by music specialists... then Sony can plead ignorance... and there is room for reasonable doubt. If the people in the estate who want these songs released are playing ignorant... they could also claim to have been swindled if this thing came out - the only people that could be in serious trouble for this ... is the cascios... because they have committed fraud.

There is also a loophole here because sony and the estate are claiming there are support vocals from James Porte... where do you draw the line on how supportive a vocal track is?

Anyone with ears knows which songs are not Michael... we all know... but it seems that the people within the Jackson family who CAN do something about this are turning a blind eye and bitching on twitter to gain some appreciation from the fans.

 

[Mack]

sorry but this is wrong. Katherine (and of course Mj's kids) is a beneficiary of the estate hence it makes her interested party in all estate matters. 3T are also contingent beneficiaries and it also makes them interested parties.

Therefore they could have taken legal action. Even if their concerns about the album were rejected by the estate and Sony, they could have gone to court and get an injunction on the release of the album until the matters were resolved.

furthermore not only Jacksons but any person also can file for a consumer fraud lawsuit - once the album released with "fake" songs.

So there are legal actions possible and no one's hands are tied.

The estate releases material and makes decisions with majority votes. If Katherine votes no to something...and is out-voted by the rest of the executors, then she does not get her own way.

So, if a majority of the executors agree the songs should be released... and then the songs are passed to sony for inclusion on the album... who exactly is Katherine going to sue? The estate that she is part of?

 

[JMie]

If the songs are "authenticated" by music specialists... then Sony can plead ignorance... and there is room for reasonable doubt. If the people in the estate who want these songs released are playing ignorant... they could also claim to have been swindled if this thing came out - the only people that could be in serious trouble for this ... is the cascios... because they have committed fraud.

There is also a loophole here because sony and the estate are claiming there are support vocals from James Porte... where do you draw the line on how supportive a vocal track is?

Anyone with ears knows which songs are not Michael... we all know... but it seems that the people within the Jackson family who CAN do something about this are turning a blind eye and bitching on twitter to gain some appreciation from the fans.

when forensic analysis is involved there's basically no room for doubt. it's not just having a listen and deciding where it's MJ's vocals or not. It involves all sorts of scientific tests, it's serious stuff, probably like comparing DNA.

 

[ivy]

The estate releases material and makes decisions with majority votes. If Katherine votes no to something...and is out-voted by the rest of the executors, then she does not get her own way.

So, if a majority of the executors agree the songs should be released... and then the songs are passed to sony for inclusion on the album... who exactly is Katherine going to sue? The estate that she is part of?

the estate is managed by two executors and yes she can sue the estate for fraud. Being a part of an estate, being a beneficiary of the estate doesn't mean that you can't sue the estate management - on the contrary it gives you more grounds to sue the estate management if they aren't acting legally.

Plus the album is being released by Sony and Sony is also claiming to have extensive research done about the vocals - they can sue Sony (if they didn't want to sue estate).

 

[Mack]

when forensic analysis is involved there's basically no room for doubt. it's not just having a listen and deciding where it's MJ's vocals or not. It involves all sorts of scientific tests, it's serious stuff, probably like comparing DNA.

and who paid for the forensics? Sony...and the estate. If the people behind this are that desperate to get these songs released, I'm sure a solid cash injection to the audiologist could sway their final decision.

This is the reason why I want us, as the fans to pool funds and hire our own specialist to examine the audio and give a definitive answer, which we all know what will be.

Then, WE have some weight for a lawsuit.

 

[Mack]

the estate is managed by two executors and yes she can sue the estate for fraud. Being a part of an estate, being a beneficiary of the estate doesn't mean that you can't sue the estate management - on the contrary it gives you more grounds to sue the estate management if they aren't acting legally.

Plus the album is being released by Sony and Sony is also claiming to have extensive research done about the vocals - they can sue Sony (if they didn't want to sue estate).

She can sue the estate, yes... but my point is, do you not see how messy that would be? And if sony / the other executors of the estate have paid off the person who has supposedly authenticated the tracks (*this can be the only explanation for them coming to the conclusion that the tracks ARE Michael) then would there even be enough room for doubt to begin a lawsuit in the eyes of the law?... when sony / estate have "officially" checked the tracks authenticity and can provide the testimony of the audiologist(s)?

 

[JMie]

and who paid for the forensics? Sony...and the estate. If the people behind this are that desperate to get these songs released, I'm sure a solid cash injection to the audiologist could sway their final decision.

This is the reason why I want us, as the fans to pool funds and hire our own specialist to examine the audio and give a definitive answer, which we all know what will be.

Then, WE have some weight for a lawsuit.

first of all, I am sure the tests were not done by some nonames. they were done by respected specialists, who have reputation to protect. Teddy Riley even mentioned they invited FBI to do the tests.

second of all, it's simple Teryll should hire someone as well to do the similar tests. why doesn't he do that? of course causing hysteria among fans by posting in twitter is much easier.

 

[lom kit]

furthermore not only Jacksons but any person also can file for a consumer fraud lawsuit - once the album released with "fake" songs.

So there are legal actions possible and no one's hands are tied.

the thing is, Michael is in those 3 songs. but not only him is singing the lead vocals. So can this be seen as fraud, just because the record company hasn't quoted and admited that there are two persons singing the song. it's a duet or featuring song.
"the impersonator" can sue for not been credited, if he didn't expressly said he doesn't want to . if he was paid to not say anything is a different thing.

 

[Mack]

first of all, I am sure the tests were not done by some nonames. they were done by respected specialists, who have reputation to protect. Teddy Riley even mentioned they invited FBI to do the tests.

second of all, it's simple Teryll should hire someone as well to do the similar tests. why doesn't he do that? of course causing hysteria among fans by posting in twitter is much easier.

I don't think Taryll can afford to hire a forensic audio specialist... that sort of thing is super expensive. Just because he is a Jackson does not mean he is made of money.

 

[JMie]

I don't think Taryll can afford to hire a forensic audio specialist... that sort of thing is super expensive. Just because he is a Jackson does not mean he is made of money.

there are so many Jacksons, if they wanted they could find enough money between themselves.

 

[ivy]

There is also a loophole here because sony and the estate are claiming there are support vocals from James Porte... where do you draw the line on how supportive a vocal track is?

you actually hit the nail in the head with this one. What makes a song classified "fake".

If Michael is credited as the lead vocal - that means in the minimum he will have %51 percent of the vocals. and if the additional vocals (James Porte) are credited like they should then there's nothing "fake" with the songs.

and who paid for the forensics? Sony...and the estate. If the people behind this are that desperate to get these songs released, I'm sure a solid cash injection to the audiologist could sway their final decision.

S And if sony / the other executors of the estate have paid off the person who has supposedly authenticated the tracks (*this can be the only explanation for them coming to the conclusion that the tracks ARE Michael) then would there even be enough room for doubt to begin a lawsuit in the eyes of the law?... when sony / estate have "officially" checked the tracks authenticity and can provide the testimony of the audiologist(s)?

sure there will be still grounds to sue. They could argue that these experts were paid and therefore biased and/or the reports were forged/fraud. They could have asked the court for an independent examination (court would choose and randomly appoint an expert to examine the files). So Sony's experts doesn't stop the option of a lawsuit.

but it seems that the people within the Jackson family who CAN do something about this are turning a blind eye and bitching on twitter to gain some appreciation from the fans.

and that's the whole point. Assume that what the 3T saying is the truth but then why are they fighting this battle at Twitter?

 

[Mack]

there are so many Jacksons, if they wanted they could find enough money between themselves.

Well, they either dont have enough money... or they can't be bothered to do it. We all know the tracks aren't Michael... so I just don't know the way forward.

 

[Mack]

you actually hit the nail in the head with this one. What makes a song classified "fake".

If Michael is credited as the lead vocal - that means in the minimum he will have %51 percent of the vocals. and if the additional vocals (James Porte) are credited like they should then there's nothing "fake" with the songs.






sure there will be still grounds to sue. They could argue that these experts were paid and therefore biased and/or the reports were forged/fraud. They could have asked the court for an independent examination (court would choose and randomly appoint an expert to examine the files). So Sony's experts doesn't stop the option of a lawsuit.



and that's the whole point. Assume that what the 3T saying is the truth but then why are they fighting this battle at Twitter?

Do you think we could all donate an pool funds together to hire our own forensic specialist to examine the audio?

 

[tricia70]

Re: Possible reason 3T & family are against the Cascio track??

I'm sorry but I had to respond...please think before you post. The estate is being run by a bunch of amateurs? So the Crique deal, the Wii games, the DVD set, and the "This is it" deal were all finalized by amateurs huh? lol. And SONY has no interest in MJ? oh right, that's why they went into the biggest deal in music history with his estate right? And that's why in this deal, Sony only controls the distribution aspect and NOTHING else right? Ok yea...I said it before and I'll say it again..."fans" are really showing there assess with this mess.

Oh Wow do I agree with you! But not all "fans" though just topflux and respect77 inthis thread.

And btw you two (topflux and respect) you are really showing your total immaturity and lack of common sense and logic. Two sets of FBI forensic evidence is not mega proof? Bruce Swedien is not mega proof? and others of course, but Bruce is one you should at least believe.


If 3T has a legitimate problem with this, why not set up a meeting with the estate and be grown up about it and ask them for the evidence they have. Simple. I'm sure the estate/Sony would gladly hand out all their evidence, plus direct numbers to those forensic experts so they can verify this. Why not talk to all those collaborators Michael worked with through the years?

But why aren't they doing this? Why go about it in a childish manner. By doing this their credibility is totally gone except for some few fans that are buying into this foolishness. I have totally lost respect for them, completely. They are making fool of themselves.

 

[JMie]

Well, they either dont have enough money... or they can't be bothered to do it. We all know the tracks aren't Michael... so I just don't know the way forward.

no. not "ALL". just some. and not "know", but "believe". there's a difference :cheeky:

 

[serena williams]

I mean dominic Cascio HIMSELF confessed that THERE WAS A SECOND VOICE in BN still some fans continue to attack the 3T for saying the truth
Keep being in denial if it make you feel better

You are happy because you are "experiencing" and celebrating the new album
But you know deep inside that your happyness is all about "illusions" because you dont "experience" the REAL MJ you experience a FAKE MJ

I prefer giving up the idea of hearing once again the voice of michael rather than hearing samples of his voice here and there mixed with other FAKE VOICES like other fans are ready to do

Because i am too much a loyal fan too much a fan of integrity to throw my soul the the devil and corrupt as a concequence the legacy of michael

The battle is unfair it is like david and Goliath fighting each other
But i am sure michael is proud of us (against the fake ) and that is the mos important

 

[Topflux]

Re: Possible reason 3T & family are against the Cascio track??

I'm sorry but I had to respond...please think before you post. The estate is being run by a bunch of amateurs? So the Crique deal, the Wii games, the DVD set, and the "This is it" deal were all finalized by amateurs huh? lol. And SONY has no interest in MJ? oh right, that's why they went into the biggest deal in music history with his estate right? And that's why in this deal, Sony only controls the distribution aspect and NOTHING else right? Ok yea...I said it before and I'll say it again..."fans" are really showing there assess with this mess.

It's very easy to make deals like that if we're talking about Michael Jackson. I just don't like how the estate and Sony are handling this mess. If they are serious about the album they should know what fans (the people who would keep Michael's legacy alive) are talking about and what they want. It's all about what the fans want and what is their opinions, nothing else. I don't care about opinions of people (probably from the business) who has come to these web boards just lately to ruin everything by saying 'it's Michael, it's Michael' even though his true fans know very well it's not him. I'm pissed off now.

 

[la_cienega]

and who paid for the forensics? Sony...and the estate. If the people behind this are that desperate to get these songs released, I'm sure a solid cash injection to the audiologist could sway their final decision.

This is the reason why I want us, as the fans to pool funds and hire our own specialist to examine the audio and give a definitive answer, which we all know what will be.

Then, WE have some weight for a lawsuit.

Then do it. Set up a fund. Set up a paypal and track down a forensic specialist and find out how much they charge. Nobody's tying your hands are they?

And so much money and conspiracy involved and you're totally onto them - should make it all that much easier to trace.

Sony, Cascio's, John Branca, Teddy Riley, Fifty Cent, Tricky, Bruce Swedien, Brad Buxor, Michael Prince, Frank Dileo, Matt Forger, Stewart Brawley, Dr Freeze, Greg Phillanganes, Dorian Holley, a forensic music person hired by the estate, a forensic music person hired by Sony, are all in it.

And apparently Jason Malachi is 100% involved too.

Messy? You mean they don't want it to be as messy as it is right now? They'd rather not make a mess than let fans buy fraudulent songs and let this criminal act continue???