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Preliminary Hearing 10/1/11. Day Five. Discussion Thread

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it is said this evidence is against murray.

So how come it was presented by defense? or did I misunderstood something again?
 
Autumn II said:
Ivy, or someone? I understand about client/attorney privilege, but are they able to present as evidence the numbers someone called? For example, can they present as evidence the fact there was a call, but not reveal the content? Reason being, in case Murray called an attorney BEFORE he called 911 on the morning of the 25th. Indicating that he KNEW he'd need legal assistance?
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That's an interesting theory and would explain why he didn't call 911 for a while. Although it would also be very shocking.
 
Sophielo said:
For the last hour the defence Chernoff and flannagan have been in judges chambers discussing new evidence

Discussing whether or not they are going to allow this priveleged info in as evidence Appartently it is from murrays cell phone

Walgren is in now with the judge apparently looking at this evidence before this new witness is called by the people

The evidence is said to be screenshots and voice messages from Murrays phone records
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The bolded makes me very uneasy. What exactly could that mean? Surely not pictures from that day?
 
TarinJade said:
The bolded makes me very uneasy. What exactly could that mean? Surely not pictures from that day?
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That was one of my first thoughts too, but I didn't want to post it ... emails, etc. are more likely though. I hope.
 
TarinJade said:
The bolded makes me very uneasy. What exactly could that mean? Surely not pictures from that day?
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maybe one of Murray's girlfriends sent him some lewd pics or something. Maybe that's why he was so distracted.. This is not fact, just making assumptions
 
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so this new evidence is recent? Wouldn't Murray know that he is still being watched and saying anything to incriminate himself would be stupid? Lord I wish he does say something incriminating but my God the man is a medical doctor, he can't be that stupid can he?
 
Screenshots... I wondered about chat screenshots, you know how you can chat via a phone (with MSN, AOL, etc)?
 
StacyJ said:
so this new evidence is recent? Wouldn't Murray know that he is still being watched and saying anything to incriminate himself would be stupid? Lord I wish he does say something incriminating but my God the man is a medical doctor, he can't be that stupid can he?
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To have done all he have done completely out of sense, yes I think he's really stupid and a dangerous man for others.
 
Autumn II said:
Ivy, or someone? I understand about client/attorney privilege, but are they able to present as evidence the numbers someone called? For example, can they present as evidence the fact there was a call, but not reveal the content? Reason being, in case Murray called an attorney BEFORE he called 911 on the morning of the 25th. Indicating that he KNEW he'd need legal assistance?
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if that was the case I think they could have said that he did call a lawyer without going into the details and even if he did it would be circumstantial for example it can be possible that he called a lawyer for divorcing his wife etc. However I think they already given the list of the people that he called before the event and none of them are lawyers.

I believe we'll learn more about these screenshots during the lunch break updates.
 
elusive moonwalker;3185182 said:
the screen shots could be emails maybe?
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Yes , they could also be emails.


I couldn't find notes about the defense arguing that they didn't know about screencaps and voice mails, but this sounds familiar, I heard : read that somewhere.


Here is what I found from sprocket's notes :

Att witness saying that the conyent of texts and voice mails messages could be retrieved (he was answering a question from Chernoff), and David Walgren saying he had thoses voicemails and texts.

The day after, Chernof asks Detective Myers if he had investigated calls in the afternoon of June 25th. Calls that would not have been mentionned during his testimony.

http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/2011/01/dr-conrad-murray-prelim-day-3-part-i.html

Mr Deliwal (ATT I phone witness) cross examination by Chernoff :
Q: Is there a way for the prosecution or the defense to retrieve the content of text messages?

Daliwal: “It’s not a yes or no. There is a way. However, I’m not familiar with it. I’m not in that process, so I don’t know.”

Q: What about the content of voice mail? Is there a way for ATT to retrieve that voice mail?

Daliwal: “It’s a yes or no answer, It can be done but I’ not an expert.”

Q: That’s all I have.
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a comment by D. Walgren after this cross examination :
DDA Walgren states that both the content of the cell phones and text messages have been provided in discovery, and if there is a question about that he would be happy to answer.
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Detective Myers cross examination by the Defense :
http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/2011/01/dr-conrad-murray-prelim-day-4-part-i.html


Was there a phone call made on June 25th that you did not investigate?

Myers: "A range?"

Q: You investigation did go no further than the mid afternoon for June 25?

Myers: No.

Q: Was five more phone calls, was it two hours more? Was it up to midnight? How far did you investigate phone calls? How long a period of time? (Objection, sustained).

Judge Pastor: Refine please.

Q: Chernoff lists calls Myers testified about. And you investigated phone calls AFTER that time frame?

Myers: It was? (Confusion. Objection vague. Overruled.) There’s been investigation into those other phone calls.

Q: Asks about the notes for those phone calls. (Objection out of scope, sustained.)

Chernoff is trying to get more information. Apologizes to judge and says he will move on.

Judge Pastor: Mr. Low has to leave for another responsibility.

Q: Chernoff asks if he (Myers) interviewed any people involved in those phone calls. Meyers did take to people but is not sure if it was on the first or second trip to Texas.

Myers did speak to Sade Anding (interview) (Objection sustained.)

Judge Pastor: We have a problem. I think we need to move on.
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so if it's proven that Murray called a lawyer before he called 911 can the charges be increased? that means he knew he killed Mike right then and there and had no way of saving him because he didn't know how.
 
hi everyone, how is everyone?

I think today with those text and voice message it could be a hard day for us, when they reveal it... very paintfull

Did trial said he saw jermaine? i thought he was cut up in Africa?

I hope this is also an importent day with evidence that is so good that murray is toasted :)
 
StacyJ said:
so if it's proven that Murray called a lawyer before he called 911 can the charges be increased? that means he knew he killed Mike right then and there and had no way of saving him because he didn't know how.
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I might confuse all of this- but wasn't it a bodyguard that called 911- and I'm presuming from his [the bodyguard's] phone?

Again, I'm just fishing in the dark here.
 
ginvid;3185205 said:
That was the case according to the media. (Because this is the first one I found)

http://www.exposay.com/v/32550/dr-conrad-murray-allegedly-called-other-numbers-before/

They mention that Murray called Klein, a lawyer, and then another man before requesting 911 called. I know this was mentioned in many articles. Now this fact may be wrong (for instance, I don't think it was verified he called Klein), but it shows that this was at least a thought at the time. Maybe the defense was finally able to get some proof to validate the claim. Who knows???
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He'd be nailed. But didn't they already list all the numbers and who called whom and when? :scratch:

Remember that leaked voicemail to his patiet "Bob"..... http://tmz.vo.llnwd.net/o28/newsdesk/tmz_audio/021610_conrad_murray_audio.mp3


Now check this out:

DDA Q: 11:07 a.m. Same Ruggles phone number. 11:18 placed call to 6802.

Myers: contacted that number 32-minute phone call.

DDA Q: Who was that? What is that location?

Myers: It’s Dr. Murray’s practice in Las Vegas. (Detective physically went to that location.)

DDA Q: That call duration to Global Cardiovascular.

11:26 another call to Conrad Murray.

Myers: A Miss Morgan. She confirmed that was her number.

Another call from Dr. Murray to a Robert Russell. It was his number. Dr. Murray was his cardiologist.

11:51 a.m. from Murray 093 to 3832. Myers contacted that number.

DDA Q: Who did you speak to?

Myers: Ms. Saday Adinie. She knew Conrad Murray.

If I understand it correctly, then that voicemail was left right before Murray called his girlfriend...and only minutes before MJ died. It sounds like there is some classical music or some "meditation music" playing in the background, and man...it's LOUD! I guess Alberto could testify if there was that kind of music playing when he came in...Don't know what to make of that call....It's eerie.
 
bouee said:
Yes , they could also be emails.


I couldn't find notes about the defense arguing that they didn't know about screencaps and voice mails, but this sounds familiar, I heard : read that somewhere.


Here is what I found from sprocket's notes :

Att witness saying that the conyent of texts and voice mails messages could be retrieved (he was answering a question from Chernoff), and David Walgren saying he had thoses voicemails and texts.

The day after, Chernof asks Detective Myers if he had investigated calls in the afternoon of June 25th. Calls that would not have been mentionned during his testimony.

http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/2011/01/dr-conrad-murray-prelim-day-3-part-i.html

Mr Deliwal (ATT I phone witness) cross examination by Chernoff :


a comment by D. Walgren after this cross examination :



Detective Myers cross examination by the Defense :
http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/2011/01/dr-conrad-murray-prelim-day-4-part-i.html
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Something I don't understand - Did they investigate the phone calls only for the 25 of june ? it makes no sense when we know that Murray disappeared almost two days, it would be logical to investigate more phone calls, no ?
 
quick update

The screenshots are emails between Murray and Bob Taylor, of Bob taylor’s Insurance of London
 
TMZ

Dr. Murray Ordered a Boatload of Propofol

A pharmacist Dr. Murray used to order Propofol just testified the doctor order box after box of the drug in the two months before Michael Jackson's death.

Tim Lopez, a pharmacist at Applied Pharmacy Services in Las Vegas, said beginning on April 6, 2009, Dr. Murray began ordering large quantities of Propofol. On that date, he ordered 10 single dose vials.

Murray, who had the drugs sent to his girlfriend's Santa Monica home where he was living, also ordered boxes of the drug on April 28 -- 4 boxes and each of the boxes had 10 100ml vials.

Later that month, Murray ordered 20 vials of midazolan and 20 vials of lorazepam.

On May 12, Murray ordered 4 boxes of Propofol, along with 2 trays of midazolan.

On June 10, Murray ordered 4 boxes of Propofol, and 2 20ml Propofol.

In all, Murray ordered 255 vials of Propofol in the two months -- including 130 vials of Propofol in 100ml doses and another 125 vials of Propofol in 20ml vials.
 
someone retweeted it on my timeline:

1direction4MJ
Lopez says Murray bought 130 vials of propofol in 100ml doses & another 125 vials of the anesthetic in the smaller dose of 20ml
1 minute ago

1Direction 4 Michael
Lopez is the owner of Applied Pharmacy Services in Las Vegas, where Murray has a clinic

1Direction 4 Michael

Tim Lopez testified that Dr. Conrad Murray purchased four shipments of propofol between April 6 & June 10, 2009.
3 minutes ago
 
summer;3185225 said:
He'd be nailed. But didn't they already list all the numbers and who called whom and when? :scratch:

Remember that leaked voicemail to his patiet "Bob"..... http://tmz.vo.llnwd.net/o28/newsdesk/tmz_audio/021610_conrad_murray_audio.mp3


Now check this out:

DDA Q: 11:07 a.m. Same Ruggles phone number. 11:18 placed call to 6802.

Myers: contacted that number 32-minute phone call.

DDA Q: Who was that? What is that location?

Myers: It’s Dr. Murray’s practice in Las Vegas. (Detective physically went to that location.)

DDA Q: That call duration to Global Cardiovascular.

11:26 another call to Conrad Murray.

Myers: A Miss Morgan. She confirmed that was her number.

Another call from Dr. Murray to a Robert Russell. It was his number. Dr. Murray was his cardiologist.

11:51 a.m. from Murray 093 to 3832. Myers contacted that number.

DDA Q: Who did you speak to?

Myers: Ms. Saday Adinie. She knew Conrad Murray.

If I understand it correctly, then that voicemail was left right before Murray called his girlfriend...and only minutes before MJ died. It sounds like there is some classical music or some "meditation music" playing in the background, and man...it's LOUD! I guess Alberto could testify if there was that kind of music playing when he came in...Don't know what to make of that call....It's eerie.
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I can not listen to that summer i hate him to much, can you give a small summery of the voicemail? xx
 
Pace said:
I might confuse all of this- but wasn't it a bodyguard that called 911- and I'm presuming from his [the bodyguard's] phone?

Again, I'm just fishing in the dark here.
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Yep. But I think the question was if Murray called a lawyer before 911 was called.

P. S. What if one of the patients he called is a lawyer? I know, far fetched.
 
mjbunny said:
Screenshots... I wondered about chat screenshots, you know how you can chat via a phone (with MSN, AOL, etc)?
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yes, it could be a part of the data info (same sort of data info as emails , I guess)

From Ivy's recap, data from the I phone :

12:03 pm text
12:04 text message to or from TX
12. 13 pm data
12:18 pm data
12:53 pm text mesage California
1:23 pm text message Nevada

All this sounds strange to me : Is it be legal that the defense doesn't have the same info as the prosecution ???

Just specultating, though, hopefully we'll get more info about this soon.
 
summer said:
He'd be nailed. But didn't they already list all the numbers and who called whom and when? :scratch:
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Yes, Ivy answered that. I edited my post.

So, I will quietly sit and wait until the new evidence is presented before I type so that I don't confuse myself or others further. :)
 
ivy said:
TMZ

Dr. Murray Ordered a Boatload of Propofol

A pharmacist Dr. Murray used to order Propofol just testified the doctor order box after box of the drug in the two months before Michael Jackson's death.

Tim Lopez, a pharmacist at Applied Pharmacy Services in Las Vegas, said beginning on April 6, 2009, Dr. Murray began ordering large quantities of Propofol. On that date, he ordered 10 single dose vials.

Murray, who had the drugs sent to his girlfriend's Santa Monica home where he was living, also ordered boxes of the drug on April 28 -- 4 boxes and each of the boxes had 10 100ml vials.

Later that month, Murray ordered 20 vials of midazolan and 20 vials of lorazepam.

On May 12, Murray ordered 4 boxes of Propofol, along with 2 trays of midazolan.

On June 10, Murray ordered 4 boxes of Propofol, and 2 20ml Propofol.

In all, Murray ordered 255 vials of Propofol in the two months -- including 130 vials of Propofol in 100ml doses and another 125 vials of Propofol in 20ml vials.
Click to expand...
this is very upsetting.....jeez....noone needs that kind of medication....I wonder how it was paid for?
 
Milka said:
Yep. But I think the question was if Murray called a lawyer before 911 was called.

P. S. What if one of the patients he called is a lawyer? I know, far fetched.
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Thanks. Yes, that was the question. If he called a lawyer before calling 911 it's an admission that Michael was already gone, and that Murray would NEED a lawyer. The timing of that call would be crucial. (and so much for that initial story, "didn't call 911 because no phones were working.")

Hmmm. One of the patients could have been a lawyer? But, he'd probably have called his own attorney.
 
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