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Preliminary Hearing 6/1/11 Day Three. Discussion thread

i am going through the update very fast .i read somewhere there was sign of struggle?
i don't want to speculate any thing ,can some one correct me?
 
Conrad Murray texted, use cellphone when he should have been monitoring pop star, prosecutors say

Dr. Conrad Murray was talking on the phone and texting during the period authorities say he should have been closely monitoring Michael Jackson’s vital signs, according to records prosecutors displayed in court Thursday.

In the approximately five hours before Murray discovered that his famous patient had stopped breathing, he had 11 phone conversations on two different phones. A trio of back-to-back calls lasting 45 minutes led directly to the moment when prosecutors say the physician realized Jackson was in cardiac arrest.

The records were presented on the third day of a Superior Court hearing to determine whether prosecutors have enough evidence to try Murray for involuntary manslaughter in Jackson’s June 25, 2009 death.

Prosecutors have accused him of an “extreme deviation” from the standard of medical care by, among other things, administering the surgical anesthetic propofol without proper monitoring. There are no witnesses to the treatment Murray provided Jackson nightly because the singer did not permit employees upstairs in his mansion, but a prosecutor said in his opening statement that the phone records are circumstantial evidence that he was distracted and not paying attention to the singer.

According to testimony from a phone company representative, Murray sent or received five text messages on his iPhone in this period. His phone conversations on that phone and a Sprint cellphone included calls with his practice in Las Vegas, a clinic he runs in Houston, an employee and another doctor. All told, he spent close to an hour and a half on the phone in the five-hour period.

The records also show the frantic call Murray, 57, placed to Jackson’s personal assistant after he found the performer lifeless in the bed and a two-minute call with his girlfriend, Nicole Alvarez, apparently made while Murray was riding in the back of an ambulance with his patient.

He also sent two text messages just within a minute or two of the time when prosecutors believe he saw Jackson was stricken. Harry Daliwal, an AT&T area manager, testified that it is possible to recover the contents of text messages, but that he does not know how to do so.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/01/michael-jackson-hearing-conrad-murray-texted.html
 
Pace said:
Kinda depends on what's going on. 'Treatment' could be anything from telling Michael to drink beverages beyond just water- or rehydration through IV.

For example, when someone has a prolonged high fever, vomiting, diarrhea, you almost breathe more out than you are able take back in orally.

Michael himself had stated in the past to dehydrate rather quickly.
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Ok, when you are really sick, yes, you need an IV, or like older people sometimes "forget" to drink enough and end up in hospital with dehydration. I just think it's weird in general that some young and pretty healthy person isn't just told to drink a lot and maybe gets a prescription for electrolytes for times of rehearsal and tour. But people are different, I guess.
 
elusive moonwalker;3178249 said:
10:29 am call from ? to Murray’s phone 22 minutes phone 1

10:34 am from Conrad 3747 to 3233 = 8 and a half minutes phone 2

how does the above work?
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It's quite possible he was having 2 conversations at once. Nothing would surprise me at this point.
 
So we have numerous calls and texts from someone who was meant to be looking after someone and not one call to 911? Utter BS, I hope the pathetic excuse of a man rots.
 
This is ridiculous. Murray completely f****d up in every single way and then lied about it and then tried to covered it up.

We know the IV in the leg was giving MJ propofol & when the EMT asked about this IV in the leg, Murray said it was for dehydration. He never told the EMT he had given MJ propofol (nor did he tell the dr.s at the hospital).. how are the EMT supposed to know what they're dealing with? It was already too late though wasn't it.. and he knew it.. MJ was dead already.

Remember Alverez said that the monitor that monitors oxygen levels etc, was not on MJ.. and Murray only put it on like the second before 911 was called. That should have been on when the propofol was administered, it could have saved MJ's life..??
 
ivy said:
could be a typo. Sprocket says that they listed phone calls really fast and she tried her best but missed some and easily could have made mistakes.

The point is Murray was really active on his cell phones all through the morning.
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wow that is just to much ....but we knew that he had cell phone use all that time...the defense wants to think everyone is stupid....we are not that gullible.
 
i think its time to call that Deb person in that one members sig... maybe this will convince them to UP the charges and get Murderer Murray sent to prison.
 
11:51- 12:02 am a call placed from Murry to 3832 11 minutes. the girfriend ( Murray "just" realised mj was in bad shape) He dropped the phone to perform CPR

12:03 pm text
12:04 text message to or from TX
12:12 pm from Murray phone to 2570 lasted 1 minute MJ'S ASSISTAN
12:15 pm from 2570 to conrad Murray 1 minute


wow
 
Milka;3178236 said:
Maybe I'm stupid, but isn't the most effective treatment for that to make sure the person drinks a lot? And just add electrolytes? An maybe vitamins.
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The problem is that the person just can´t drink as much as he/she needs.The person might feel sick if he/she tries.
 
could be a typo. Sprocket says that they listed phone calls really fast and she tried her best but missed some and easily could have made mistakes.

The point is Murray was really active on his cell phones all through the morning.
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ah ok. i thought there was paper work rather than just listing it as it was said on the stand
 
elusive moonwalker;3178249 said:
10:29 am call from ? to Murray’s phone 22 minutes phone 1

10:34 am from Conrad 3747 to 3233 = 8 and a half minutes phone 2

how does the above work?

the pros say he was giving diprivan between 10.40 and 11.00
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He had two phones, a Sprint phone and an iPhone. Two conversations on two different phones, I'd assume.
 
elusive moonwalker said:
ah ok. i thought there was paper work rather than just listing it as it was said on the stand
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no she's in the overflow room taking shorthand notes. she just hears the audio. (there are records but she doesn't see them, she takes notes as the witness reads from the records)

so typo's mistakes etc are possible. regardless she's doing a tremendous job.
 
but if he notices in the time of the call with the girlfriend and a couple textmessage where made? then its at least 21 min before calling 911?
 
I would love to know who was texted between 12:03 and 12:04 and what the texts said.

Notice too that Michael was in distress close to or shortly after 12, yet Murray called Michael's assistant a good 12 minutes later (after making and receiving texts).

At the moment that he realises that something seriously wrong with his 'friend' - he is texting. WTF!
 
TheChosenOne said:
I would love to know who was texted between 12:03 and 12:04 and what the texts said.

Notice too that Michael was in distress close to or shortly after 12, yet Murray called Michael's assistant a good 12 minutes later (after making and receiving texts).

At the moment that he realises that something seriously wrong with his 'friend' - he is texting. WTF!
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Disgusting!
 
TheChosenOne said:
I would love to know who was texted between 12:03 and 12:04 and what the texts said.

Notice too that Michael was in distress close to or shortly after 12, yet Murray called Michael's assistant a good 12 minutes later (after making and receiving texts).

At the moment that he realises that something seriously wrong with his 'friend' - he is texting. WTF!
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I hope then can get to message back... it would maybe a big evidence for this case against murray..

maybe he notices michael was already gone and texted that! pfff


horrifying
 
Milka said:
Could someone help me, please? I want to know the list of meds that were found in the autopsy, as far as I remember it was a cocktail of benzos, and how much he was given of all of them according to the autopsy report. If someone has a link with some kind of summary for me, that would be great. I want to google those meds and find out what the "normal" dose would be and I also think it's not all that common to give several of those. Why not stick with just one and give a second dose if the first one was too low?

I know it's in the autopsy report, but I just can't look at it. I tried last year, I tried a couple of days ago, I just can't, it makes me sick.
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You don't give a new dose of the same drug because then you risk overdosing. Just like with something as simple as when a kid has a fever. If you give paracetamol and the fever won't go down or goes back up pretty soon after giving paracetamol...you shouldn't give paracetamol AGAIN, because it's too soon...you should give something else. Hope that helps.

StaceyMJ said:
Does anyone remember not long after June 25th when Murrays reason for not calling 911 was apparrently because there was no landline phone? Now it comes about he had not 1 but 2 cellphones! Lying idiot!
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Yeah, and he supposedly didn't know the ADDRESS. Even though his CAR was found at MJ's house and he had DRIVEN himself there. Also, for a doctor to be treating a patient for months and to not know the address or how to call help, ESPECIALLY when they are giving them drugs intraveniously is just another example of being completely reckless.


chanel05 said:
i remember.... he said he had a cell but no landline and he wasnt sure of the exact address. i dnt know if the 911 place could pick up his exact locaton from a cell. i just find it hard to believe he didnt know the address. he could of atleast told them how to get there
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Yeah, and he had enough of opportunities to ask OTHER people to call 911 (Kai Chase said, she checked the time from HER cell phone, if I remember correctly, so if he would have just yelled..."CALL 911!!!" Kai Chase could have called an ambulance around 12:05 already!!). Or he could have asked what the address is. But again...he was there to TREAT a patient....and there to give him drugs. To NOT know the address is just reckless, and woudl show what a quack he really is!!


StacyJ said:
So what happened to the call in Vegas to his patient where he talked about heart results?
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Yeah, when was that call to this guy "Bob"? Anyone remember?

Milka said:
I forgot about that, I wanted to mention that in yesterday's thread. As far as I remember he said he couldn't call 911 from his cell phone (and that there was no landline) because he didn't know the address. That's why he had to get the bodyguards (why, if he didn't know the address, didn't he just call one of them and told them OVER THE PHONE to call 911 right now?). I thought how can you not know the address, not only because you should know it in case of an emergency, but he went there every day for weeks.
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Exactly!! And his CAR was there! :doh:

PrincessMichaela said:
Do they have the content from the texts or just the info regarding where, when, and who? I'm really really curious to find out more about the "storage boxes" incident.

Was the 1:08PM call to his gf the one made from the abulance? Why was he making calls in the ambulance anyway?! Didn't he have more important things to do? ...Guess that was only important to us.

Law enforcement is only telling TMZ what Murray told them. (and why is law enforcement talking to a celeb gossip site anyway?...) Murray should have known better than to lie about things that can be so easily checked up on, things with printed records. :doh: Then again, he should have known better about a lot of things...
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The only reason I can think of as to WHY he would call his girlfriend from the ambulance was..."HIDE THE DAMN PROPOFOL!!! GET RID OF IT!!"....I mean, that's the place where they sent the stuff, after all....His patint is DYING...and he is calling someone??? WTF?????!!!! And then after his patient has died, he wants to go eat because he is hungry. Shows what a caring, compassionate human being and a doctor he is...!! :rolleyes:

ivy said:
Trials and Tribulations update

There were two witnesses that introduced phone records. It was rapid fire information and I missed quite a bit of it. I will probably summarize it since it was just to introduce the phone calls and text messages records. The actual content of those phone calls and text messages will come later. The most interesting thing is to see "when" Dr. Murray was on the phone and how long those phone calls and messages lasted. And, Dr. Murray had two phones. An iPhone and a Sprint-Nextel phone registered to him. And it appears he was actively using both phones for text and calls all through the morning of June 25th.
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Oh this is getting better and better...so he had TWO working cell phones???!! Gosh, this is getting more and more difficult to bear.....I really find it hard to stay calm....I so wish I could be in that courtroom to tear Murray apart myself...I have loads of questions he will not be able to answer...a lot of things which he won't be able to explain. I really hope the prosecution will ask the right questions and will know how to get Murray talk himself into a corner. I wish I could do that myself!! :angry:

Pace said:
I might be wrong, but I was under the impression that there actually IS no antidote for Propofol itself.
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There is no antidote....but there are still other drugs you can give and there are other ways to help the patient, depending what the problem is (like if the blood pressure drops, there are drugs you can give...if the heart rate is too slow, there are drugs you can give to help with that, etc.). But the most important therapy really is securing the airways...making sure the patient is getting oxygen. Propofol will wear off eventually...you just gotta make sure the patient is getting oxygen and is safe. And THAT'S why you need an anesthesiologist there when giving Propofol because he/she will know what to do and how to help you so that you WILL get enough oxygen and so that you won't die. It's that simple really.

Had Murray monitored MJ and had he INTUBATED Michael the second MJ stopped breathing, Michael would still be alive. Really. That simple.


ScrEAm.Jack5on said:
26 Murray cell activities from 6:30am to 4:03pm but no call to 911.

Murray had two phones.

Defense questioned about collapsed veins being a result of a drug addict. EMT said there was NO sign of drug abuse.

www.twitter.com/justice_4mj
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I love these EMTs! They are doing an amazing job! "Truth always triumphs!!" They don't let Chernoff put words in their mouth!! Bravo!! :clapping:
 
on the ustream they said that while they were putting Michael's body in the ambulance one of the emt's saw Murray through the window scurrying around the room cleaning up....WTF!!
 
Soundmind said:
11:51- 12:02 am a call placed from Murry to 3832 11 minutes. the girfriend ( Murray "just" realised mj was in bad shape) He dropped the phone to perform CPR

12:03 pm text
12:04 text message to or from TX
12:12 pm from Murray phone to 2570 lasted 1 minute MJ'S ASSISTAN
12:15 pm from 2570 to conrad Murray 1 minute


wow
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add on the below aswell presume data means emails maybe what could it be?

12. 13 pm data
12:18 pm data
 
Defense questioned about collapsed veins being a result of a drug addict. EMT said there was NO sign of drug abuse.
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I doubt that was said.

This makes more sense:
Do you have any reason why they could not find a vein? Is it in your exprience, people who are as skinny as they are, that drug addicts that it’s difficult to find a vein? The witness gives an example of a known drug addict with tattoos and he is still able to find a vein.
 
What in the world is he doing calling his girlfriend while in the ambulance? What is up with this man? Maybe, I pray, the judge ups the charges. He has got to be thinking "what the H*ll is going on here" in my opinion.

Something is so seriously wrong here. You can't be putting someone to sleep yet doing that much talking on the phone. Why then when you could do it at any point after Michael is up for the day?
 
xthunderx2 said:
on the ustream they said that while they were putting Michael's body in the ambulance one of the emt's saw Murray through the window scurrying around the room cleaning up....WTF!!
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the medic said he saw murray putting bottles in a bag. but how can u see it through a window. when the bedroom is upstairs. nevermind ive read it again. still not sure if u would see much with it been so high up and murray went in the ambulance aswell
 
data means emails, but not neccessarily emails sent bij Murray; an iPhone gets pushed emails, so maybe he was receiving emails.
 
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