The brilliance and the magic of GHOSTS

[Antwort]

Watching Ghosts for Halloween I was reminded of the sheer brilliance of this magnificent creation. That is why I'd like to take a minute or two and give it some much deserved props. I sometimes feel this is almost a hidden treasure in Michael's catalogue, especially for folks over the pond who have come to discover it most recently.

I still remember watching it on German television back in 1997 and being mesmerized by it all – the autobiographical nature of the plot, the visual effects and especially them ending scenes which revealed the length of Michael's involvement in the movie. That is actually one of the highlights of the movie for me. Who would have guessed that the chubby, judgemental mayor was none other than the man himself?

I thought it was a stroke of genius on his behalf to have not only the cool and positive role, but also that of the evil guy. An idea, which would later be visited in the Halloween cartoon from 2017 (?) where ,,Michael,, impersonates plenty of characters. The whole Ghosts movie was basically a one-man show with layers upon layers, not just of make up, but several levels of analysis and interpretation as well.

[video=youtube;9DBieZOzQn8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DBieZOzQn8&list=RD9DBieZOzQn8&start_radio=1&t=253[/video]

Stan Winston (God rest his soul) did a really great job with the effects and the plot is great also, because it proves the dangers of mob mentality and prejudice in some really cool and artistic ways.

The only portion which was logistically problematic was the clothing of the mayor and his attempt at dancing – not only were them skinny ankles inappropriate for the rest of the body, but also the stuff underneath the shirt was a bit too obvious and not very inductive of genuine fat. It looked more like bags filled with air lol. Beyond that though, it truly was a visual masterpiece.

I've always believed the choreography to be amazing and I think it runs circles around Thriller. I realize that for some this may be tantamount to sacrilege, but I truly prefer Ghosts to Thriller any time of day or night. I think it is much more complex, subtler and with greater artistic merits. Notwithstanding, I do realize people's fascination with the iconic status of the Thriller video and the ease of the routine. I think it's safe to say that we won't be seeing people doing the 2Bad routine anytime soon, not even James O'Keefe. Also, that little bit of quiet, classical music has always been mesmerizing to me.

Not to mention that he looked beyond foine while struttin' his stuff in them awesome ways of his :girl_love:

A really awesome thing about the film is the ending. In a way, it connects with Moonwalker as well – the hero gone and defeated, all being seemingly lost,,,,while in the end, he makes a most triumphant return. But then again, this is Hollywood, an industry based on happy endings, right?

He tends to have that theme in his movies and videos doesn't he - cheating death and the imprisonment of people's perceptions of him? The ending of TDCAU, which finds him on the streets of Rio, the starting sounds of Xscape, the ship taking off in Moonwalker, the embrace with Katie and the Come Together performance, the Maestro in Ghosts......they all paint the picture of a man determined to defy the odds staked against him.

And that, of course, is one of the most inspiring of all elements to the story of his life. Beyond the brilliance of the artistic statements and his many achievements, there is the human element which makes it all even more amazing.

Another really great thing about Ghosts is the sense of humor. I always giggle when that mother who hits the boys over the head gets a smacking of her own from a very conscientious ghost lol. Awesome, absolutely awesome in just about every way I just realized I got a slight addiction to the word "awesome" lol. I've used it more than once here, but it truly is the single, most important term through which to describe that which is a monument of awesomeness

:heart:

:heart:

 

[HIStory]

I've always believed the choreography to be amazing and I think it runs circles around Thriller. I realize that for some this may be tantamount to sacrilege, but I truly prefer Ghosts to Thriller any time of day or night. I think it is much more complex, subtler and with greater artistic merits. Notwithstanding, I do realize people's fascination with the iconic status of the Thriller video and the ease of the routine. I think it's safe to say that we won't be seeing people doing the 2Bad routine anytime soon. Also, that little bit of quiet, classical music has always been mesmerizing to me.

I agree with this totally. The choreography is so great. But it is not something that many people will be able to emulate so we will not see many flash mobs or mass dances with a 2 Bad choreography.

I love Ghosts and I agree it is a master piece.

 

[Galactus123]

Amazing video but too long. Many times when watching it I think just play the song already. The short version was actually the first short film by Michael I ever saw.

 

[barbee0715]

By over the pond, are you talking about the US? I was reading about it in Wikipedia and it looks like once again the US was shortchanged just like we were with Blood On the Dance Floor.

I remember seeing news about Cannes and that was about it until I found it for myself many years later. And I knew it was released in Europe-but you said you saw it on TV.

Does anybody know if it ran at the time here on TV-maybe as a special. Maybe I didn't hear about it here since I didn't have any kids? And I assume it was promoted to kids.

To me, the 2 best things about Ghosts are the choreography and Michael as the Mayor. Not just the makeup-his acting as the Mayor is especially great.

Oh, I'd put the outtakes/credits as the 3rd best thing.

Edited to add: I read in Wiki that the little boy was cast to look like Michael when he was with the Jackson 5. I'd say the woman playing his mother is even more of a dead ringer for Katherine.

 

[barbee0715]

I agree with this totally. The choreography is so great. But it is not something that many people will be able to emulate so we will not see many flash mobs or mass dances with a 2 Bad choreography.

I love Ghosts and I agree it is a master piece.

It is too bad that not too many people are familiar with the "Ghosts" choreography-if they were, then we wouldn't have dances like this and choreographers like WADE wouldn't win Emmys for it either:

 

[invertedparadox]

Barbee: You're right, we were definitely shorted on Ghosts in the US. I never saw it on TV. An MJ penpal in Europe taped it for me off TV and mailed it to me way back when or I'd never have seen it!
On the subject, I can't find it on DVD anywhere. Anyone know where I can get it? I miss watching it so much!

 

[HIStory]

^ Yes, that choreography by Wade was such a Ghosts rip-off. And he won an Emmy for that? LOL.

 

[mj_frenzy]

Watching Ghosts for Halloween I was reminded of the sheer brilliance of this magnificent creation. That is why I'd like to take a minute or two and give it some much deserved props. I sometimes feel this is almost a hidden treasure in Michael's catalog, especially for folks over the pond who have come to discover it most recently.

I agree.

For me, this movie is his most underrated work in general. The reasons are explained succinctly on my original post when I started a thread about MJ’s most underrated works.

I was lucky enough to experience a theatrical release in my city when ‘Ghosts’ premiered during that period. I still have the ticket (in fact, free-pass) which I suppose to be among the rarest MJ’s items.

I regard this movie (along with the 5 first songs on the ‘Blood on the Dance Floor’ album) as a bonus chapter to the ‘HIStory’ album. This trilogy for me is invaluable.

 

[barbee0715]

^ Yes, that choreography by Wade was such a Ghosts rip-off. And he won an Emmy for that? LOL.

yes, he did. And he ripped it off with another dance on DWTS even more so.
I just re watched Ghosts here and read the credits. There should be a copyright on that work. No wonder choreographers get so mad over their work being stolen.

 

[HIStoric]

yes, he did. And he ripped it off with another dance on DWTS even more so.
I just re watched Ghosts here and read the credits. There should be a copyright on that work. No wonder choreographers get so mad over their work being stolen.

Not a lawyer, but copyright status is automatically generated upon the creation of someone's work. Just because someone doesn't put a © logo on their work doesn't mean it isn't copyrighted, unless they explicitly state it's in the public domain (or some form of creative commons).

 

[Galactus123]

Not a lawyer, but copyright status is automatically generated upon the creation of someone's work. Just because someone doesn't put a © logo on their work doesn't mean it isn't copyrighted, unless they explicitly state it's in the public domain (or some form of creative commons).

Not necessarily. That is exactly what happened to movie Night of the Living Dead in 1968. They forgot to add it. It has been public domain ever since.

 

[HIStoric]

Not necessarily. That is exactly what happened to movie Night of the Living Dead in 1968. They forgot to add it. It has been public domain ever since.

That's because in 1968, you did have to put a proper notice on the work to maintain copyright. In 1988, the Berne Convention Implementation Act took effect and this amended the law so that the use of a copyright notice was optional on copies of works published on and after March 1, 1989.

So while it is beneficial, it is not needed.

 

[SarahJ]

This is one of his best short films in my opinion. From the dance, to the music, the multiple make up processes he goes through and the statements he makes throughout the film. Love Thriller, but as someone said earlier this tops it by a mile.

 

[Carmour260]

By over the pond, are you talking about the US? I was reading about it in Wikipedia and it looks like once again the US was shortchanged just like we were with Blood On the Dance Floor.

I remember seeing news about Cannes and that was about it until I found it for myself many years later. And I knew it was released in Europe-but you said you saw it on TV.

Does anybody know if it ran at the time here on TV-maybe as a special. Maybe I didn't hear about it here since I didn't have any kids? And I assume it was promoted to kids.

To me, the 2 best things about Ghosts are the choreography and Michael as the Mayor. Not just the makeup-his acting as the Mayor is especially great.

Oh, I'd put the outtakes/credits as the 3rd best thing.

Edited to add: I read in Wiki that the little boy was cast to look like Michael when he was with the Jackson 5. I'd say the woman playing his mother is even more of a dead ringer for Katherine.

In my homeland (the US), yeah, we didn't see it until 2001 when "Invincible" was ready to come out. It was right around Halloween, so it was the perfect time, especially after 9/11. It premiered on MTV for the first time (in it's final years of showing music videos), I was so ready for it and I taped it, watched it over and over and over again, mesmerized.

"Ghosts" is definitely a masterpiece and that choreography is just not really of this planet.

 

[SheilaMJFan4Ever]

Not to mention this little outtake which LaVelle Smith posted last week :lol:

[video]https://video.fash1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hvideo-xap1/v/t43.1792-2/12012345_1072891762729625_959603507_n.mp4?efg=eyJy bHIiOjE1MDAsInJsYSI6MTAyNCwidmVuY29kZV90YWciOiJoZC J9&rl=1500&vabr=321&oh=01bd6efc8adf65814b89ad0d2a6a15b7&oe=563FABAC[/video]

That link doesn't work. I keep getting a Facebook error message instead.

 

[mj_frenzy]

That link doesn't work. I keep getting a Facebook error message instead.

I assume you mean this 'Ghosts' outtake:

 

[HIStoric]

I assume you mean this 'Ghosts' outtake:

That shimmer at the end :lol: Would make an awesome gif in all honesty :rofl:

 

[Lil]

Ghosts is amazing, I'd say it's definitely one of his best works! I love the story, the symbolism and how autobiographical it is.. I do remember seeing it on MTV when it first came out (I think I was 11) and being absolutely mesmerized. The choreography for 2Bad is probably my favorite routine he's ever done, I must've watched that part a million times by now (and just like with every other group dance he does, I'm fascinated with how much better he is than his back up dancers, lol.)
Can't believe it wasn't shown in the US until 2001? That's a shame..

That shimmer at the end :lol: Would make an awesome gif in all honesty :rofl:

:lol:

 

[barbee0715]

In my homeland (the US), yeah, we didn't see it until 2001 when "Invincible" was ready to come out. It was right around Halloween, so it was the perfect time, especially after 9/11. It premiered on MTV for the first time (in it's final years of showing music videos), I was so ready for it and I taped it, watched it over and over and over again, mesmerized.

oh? Wow-thank you. Right after 9-11 was a crazy, frantic time and I was flying back and forth to LA for work for about six months to a year after that, so I must have missed any kind of press for it at all. All I remember that year was MSG.
Glad to hear we did actually play it.

 

[SarahJ]

This is just gonna feed my obsession with this clip even more. :yes:

 

[Bubs]

I agree with this totally. The choreography is so great. But it is not something that many people will be able to emulate so we will not see many flash mobs or mass dances with a 2 Bad choreography.


I love Ghosts and I agree it is a master piece.

I consider 2 bad choreography as great as Remember the Time, both very hard, and both meant for watching, not for repeating:clapping:

 

[dewey]

For some reason, I remember seeing Ghosts before 2001. Does anyone know if MTV aired it in the U.S.? I swear I remember taping it and watching it at my Mom's house and that would've been before 2001.

 

[Carmour260]

For some reason, I remember seeing Ghosts before 2001. Does anyone know if MTV aired it in the U.S.? I swear I remember taping it and watching it at my Mom's house and that would've been before 2001.

It premiered on MTV in the US in 2001. The hype was everywhere, I remember, between "Ghosts," "Invincible," the United We Stand concert and the 30th Anniversary Shows, he was everywhere!

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

I love ghosts and 2bad is like my all time fav MJ song! I hope one day we'll get to see the entire dance sequence from one single angle!

 

[Antwort]

In my homeland (the US), yeah, we didn't see it until 2001 when "Invincible" was ready to come out. It was right around Halloween, so it was the perfect time, especially after 9/11. It premiered on MTV for the first time (in it's final years of showing music videos), I was so ready for it and I taped it, watched it over and over and over again, mesmerized.

"Ghosts" is definitely a masterpiece and that choreography is just not really of this planet.

I do remember reading something about a Halloween special in the US years after the European premiere, but for some strange reason I associated it with VH1, not MTV. I also didn't remember the exact year. Thanks for the reminder.

By over the pond, are you talking about the US? I was reading about it in Wikipedia and it looks like once again the US was shortchanged just like we were with Blood On the Dance Floor.

I remember seeing news about Cannes and that was about it until I found it for myself many years later. And I knew it was released in Europe-but you said you saw it on TV.

Does anybody know if it ran at the time here on TV-maybe as a special. Maybe I didn't hear about it here since I didn't have any kids? And I assume it was promoted to kids.

To me, the 2 best things about Ghosts are the choreography and Michael as the Mayor. Not just the makeup-his acting as the Mayor is especially great.

Oh, I'd put the outtakes/credits as the 3rd best thing.

Edited to add: I read in Wiki that the little boy was cast to look like Michael when he was with the Jackson 5. I'd say the woman playing his mother is even more of a dead ringer for Katherine.

I definitely agree about the mayor part barbs. It was really great to see him play that role. It proved the versatility not just of his singing voice, but especially of his spoken one. Not many people would have recognized him. I thought that was very cool. Not just to play someone with an almost opposing character to his real one, but to do it in such a convincing voice that showed genuine acting skills.

Ghosts is amazing, I'd say it's definitely one of his best works! I love the story, the symbolism and how autobiographical it is.. I do remember seeing it on MTV when it first came out (I think I was 11) and being absolutely mesmerized. The choreography for 2Bad is probably my favorite routine he's ever done, I must've watched that part a million times by now (and just like with every other group dance he does, I'm fascinated with how much better he is than his back up dancers, lol.)
Can't believe it wasn't shown in the US until 2001? That's a shame..

:lol:

Was gonna post that gif Lil made, but she beat me to it. No problem though, this is a good excuse to post it again. It's that good LOL

 

[Antwort]

Well, well,,,,after having done a much-needed editing job of my opening post, I am now ready to give an equally needed bumpity bump to this very special thread; it's not often that I actually start threads. Considering current 'events' - the uploading, albeit temporary, of a rather pristine version of the film unto Michael's official VIVO account - I find it most timely an intervention.

Needless to say, I enjoy the movie and the perspectives it provides tremendously :heart::heart:

Same goes for this gif datin' back to 2015.......

:rofl:

Guess it's true, after all - the more things change, the more they stay the same, or do they? opcorn:

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

:rofl:

LOL! :laughing:

 

[Antwort]

I just had to 'steal' this one from the 2000 Watts section. I sure hope madmijack won't mind Here's some for their trouble.

For someone who claims to have an elephunk memory, even I forget certain things. For example, I was soooo caught up in reminiscing other issues, I didn't even realize that on Oct. 25th it's been 25 years since the release of Ghosts.

This autumn truly has far too many Michael-related round numbers - 50 years since the first solo record, 30 years since Dangerous, 25 years since the start of the HIStory tour AND the premiere of Ghosts, 20 years since Invincible. And when the numbers aren't round, they are downright Biblical - 12 years since This is it. It's all a bit overwhelming, to be honest........

......and in such an emotionally-charged context, Remember the time becomes not just tune of the day or of the season, but pretty much tune of the whole doggone year

 

[somewhereinthedark]

Watching Ghosts for Halloween I was reminded of the sheer brilliance of this magnificent creation. That is why I'd like to take a minute or two and give it some much deserved props. I sometimes feel this is almost a hidden treasure in Michael's catalogue, especially for folks over the pond who have come to discover it most recently.

I still remember watching it on German television back in 1997 and being mesmerized by it all – the autobiographical nature of the plot, the visual effects and especially them ending scenes which revealed the length of Michael's involvement in the movie. That is actually one of the highlights of the movie for me. Who would have guessed that the chubby, judgemental mayor was none other than the man himself?

I thought it was a stroke of genius on his behalf to have not only the cool and positive role, but also that of the evil guy. An idea, which would later be visited in the Halloween cartoon from 2017 (?) where ,,Michael,, impersonates plenty of characters. The whole Ghosts movie was basically a one-man show with layers upon layers, not just of make up, but several levels of analysis and interpretation as well.

[video=youtube;9DBieZOzQn8]

Stan Winston (God rest his soul) did a really great job with the effects and the plot is great also, because it proves the dangers of mob mentality and prejudice in some really cool and artistic ways.

The only portion which was logistically problematic was the clothing of the mayor and his attempt at dancing – not only were them skinny ankles inappropriate for the rest of the body, but also the stuff underneath the shirt was a bit too obvious and not very inductive of genuine fat. It looked more like bags filled with air lol. Beyond that though, it truly was a visual masterpiece.

I've always believed the choreography to be amazing and I think it runs circles around Thriller. I realize that for some this may be tantamount to sacrilege, but I truly prefer Ghosts to Thriller any time of day or night. I think it is much more complex, subtler and with greater artistic merits. Notwithstanding, I do realize people's fascination with the iconic status of the Thriller video and the ease of the routine. I think it's safe to say that we won't be seeing people doing the 2Bad routine anytime soon, not even James O'Keefe. Also, that little bit of quiet, classical music has always been mesmerizing to me.

Not to mention that he looked beyond foine while struttin' his stuff in them awesome ways of his :girl_love:

A really awesome thing about the film is the ending. In a way, it connects with Moonwalker as well – the hero gone and defeated, all being seemingly lost,,,,while in the end, he makes a most triumphant return. But then again, this is Hollywood, an industry based on happy endings, right?

He tends to have that theme in his movies and videos doesn't he - cheating death and the imprisonment of people's perceptions of him? The ending of TDCAU, which finds him on the streets of Rio, the starting sounds of Xscape, the ship taking off in Moonwalker, the embrace with Katie and the Come Together performance, the Maestro in Ghosts......they all paint the picture of a man determined to defy the odds staked against him.

And that, of course, is one of the most inspiring of all elements to the story of his life. Beyond the brilliance of the artistic statements and his many achievements, there is the human element which makes it all even more amazing.

Another really great thing about Ghosts is the sense of humor. I always giggle when that mother who hits the boys over the head gets a smacking of her own from a very conscientious ghost lol. Awesome, absolutely awesome in just about every way I just realized I got a slight addiction to the word "awesome" lol. I've used it more than once here, but it truly is the single, most important term through which to describe that which is a monument of awesomeness

I agree with everything you said. I remember me and my family going to the theater to see the premier of this wonderful film. It is awesome!!

 

[Eric]

I still remember going to watch this in the theater in the USA in 1996. I have the flyer they were handing out as an advertisement. I can't believe Ghosts has never been released on DVD or Blu-ray.