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the marks on michael's leg - what were they?

dirtydiana27 said:
--but my question would be who gave the report to the AP in the first place? As far as I know, there has never been a release by officials regarding the autopsy.
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This is what one of the coroners Ed Winter said regarding the AP 'The Assosiated Press claim to have obtained access to a copy of Jackson's autopsy last week. When I asked them if I could see what they had, they couldn't produce anything.'

This is the coroner press conference with Craig Harvey -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmdrNn3HZcY

Q referring to your questions about injection marks..

Q:'Were there any injection marks?'
A:'Errr, No, not that I'm aware of. I couldn't comment on it if there were' (well.. you did just comment on it :/)
 
BillieJean84 said:
the scabs, scars, markings... they could easily be covered up with / camouflauge flesh colored make up? or no?
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Yes, I think they could. Also, the remark that Prince allegedly said to Joe does not totally make sense? He saw no needle-marks, but yet he saw his father hooked up to I.V.s? An I.V. is put in place with a pretty large-gauge needle, and it surely leaves marks wherever it's placed. It is usually placed in the back of the hand, or the arm in the crook of the elbow, or can be used in a vein in an ankle. If Michael was receiving I.Vs for six WEEKS, there would have been a new needle-mark for each day of that. The marks would take a few days to scab over and even begin to heal. I've had I.Vs on maybe three occasions? They also can leave visible bruises, as well as the puncture mark. Very confusing. . . .
 
Victoria83 said:
Yes, I think they could. Also, the remark that Prince allegedly said to Joe does not totally make sense? He saw no needle-marks, but yet he saw his father hooked up to I.V.s? An I.V. is put in place with a pretty large-gauge needle, and it surely leaves marks wherever it's placed. It is usually placed in the back of the hand, or the arm in the crook of the elbow, or can be used in a vein in an ankle. If Michael was receiving I.Vs for six WEEKS, there would have been a new needle-mark for each day of that. The marks would take a few days to scab over and even begin to heal. I've had I.Vs on maybe three occasions? They also can leave visible bruises, as well as the puncture mark. Very confusing. . . .
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Not necessarily. Arrgh, this is one of those moments when I can't find the word on google so I'll try to explain.

The IV sometimes has a little plastic end, which is inserted into the vein and can remain there for a longer period of time (you can pull the rest of the cord out, but leave the little plastic thing inside the vein, and then simply plug the needle back). I don't know for how long one can keep it, I'll have to ask my mother, she's an anesthesiologist.

Later edit : I found it, it's called a cannula http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Placement_of_intravenous_cannula_3.jpg
 
Popescu said:
Not necessarily. Arrgh, this is one of those moments when I can't find the word on google so I'll try to explain.

The IV sometimes has a little plastic end, which is inserted into the vein and can remain there for a longer period of time (you can pull the rest of the cord out, but leave the little plastic thing inside the vein, and then simply plug the needle back). I don't know for how long one can keep it, I'll have to ask my mother, she's an anesthesiologist.

Later edit : I found it, it's called a cannula http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Placement_of_intravenous_cannula_3.jpg
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Ah, ok. Thanks. But that raises the question, in a person as healthy as Michael reportedly was ("reported" by AEG execs), then it would be highly unusual to walk around with something like that???? (I'd assume there would be a bandage over it to prevent infection?) The vein would eventually break down (collapse), especially if the medication used was corrosive (i.e "burned"). Then a new vein would have to be used. I have never, EVER heard of anything like this unless the person was seriously ill or in a terribly fragile condition and required I.V.s for hydration. I mean, it's not like my neighbor does it, or any of my relatives, or anyone that I know of who wasn't seriously ill/receiving chemo, or something like that? This is just so highly UNUSUAL!

(edit) EEEEK! I've now seen the photo (from the link you gave). That would be NOTICED! Even if it was under a bandage and a long-sleeved shirt, he'd have to be careful that nobody grabbed his arm in that place! It would surely HURT, and whoever grabbed hold of his arm would FEEL that. I repeat, this is just highly unusual!
 
mnj1985 said:
A number of years ago Michael was bitten by a venomous spider (Brown Recluse?). His dermatologist took pictures of the wound. That is probably the picture you saw. It's been used in stories claiming that Michael had a flesh-eating bacteria, etc.
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Nancy Grace is a totally TARD... yes I am so angry I am using 80's slang.

Yes, it was a Brown Recluse - which can be more venomous than a black widow... I only saw that bite picture when I was on the National Geographic website a few years back and they were comparing bite marks between the two spiders and what it did to your skin - they actually had a picture of Michael on their site… I wonder if Nancy TARD knew that.

Damn I hate stupid people! She never investigates anything. She is always looking for the "story"
 
Victoria83 said:
They CAN'T know if it was consensual. The "stories" that came out on the news made it seem that it was consensual, with the implication that Michael "begged" for it, and then it killed him. I have never believed this. It just doesn't ring true to me. . . . . .

The FF never reported seeing any needle-marks on his arms, that I can recall.

The FF wrote emails to Karen Faye (but please let's not deviate and get into K.F. stuff here? :bugeyed) asking for her help. A number of us here have seen the emails before they were removed. The FF observed Michael at a rehearsal and said he was incredibly, dangerously, thin. He was wearing white and they said that they could see every rib, and his backbone, and he looked like he could die, he was so emaciated. They were freaked out! They said other members of the cast and crew weren't relating to him at all, weren't even looking at him.

They asked K.F. to intervene. She told them that she'd written an email about it to Randy Phillips, and that she was terribly concerned, too. But then she told them to be QUIET about it. Nothing happened. The FF wrote letters to Michael expressing their concern. They gave them to him on the night right before he died, but a body-guard took the letters from them and said they'd get them to Michael, and that they could not talk to him then, but would be able to speak by phone soon. He and body-guards went into the house. The FF tried to reach him, but all calls were dropped. They don't know for certain if he was given the letters, or read them. Within hours, he was dead.
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This frightens me. Are the fans the only people who truly cared form MJ?
 
Popescu said:
Not necessarily. Arrgh, this is one of those moments when I can't find the word on google so I'll try to explain.

The IV sometimes has a little plastic end, which is inserted into the vein and can remain there for a longer period of time (you can pull the rest of the cord out, but leave the little plastic thing inside the vein, and then simply plug the needle back). I don't know for how long one can keep it, I'll have to ask my mother, she's an anesthesiologist.

Later edit : I found it, it's called a cannula http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Placement_of_intravenous_cannula_3.jpg
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Yes, I remember reading about that plastic thing (cannula) as well. Actually I think I read about it somewhere else on this forum. But that would make more sense. If Michael was using an IV for a long period of time like it has been said, then I think it would be the more sensible thing to do for Murray to use the plastic thing instead of making a bunch of different puncture areas. But then again we are talking about Murray doing this, so who knows if he was even sensibe enough to do that? :doh:

edit: okay I looked at the picture on the link you gave and yea I agree with Vic that would have been noticed. Oh surprise surprise Murray didn't have enough sense to even do that :smilerolleyes:. No, intead he just makes a bunch of punctures in Mike's body. Which in turn makes Mike look like an "addict" -_- Where did this guy get his degree again? Omg he is such an idiot.
 
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Victoria83 said:
Ah, ok. Thanks. But that raises the question, in a person as healthy as Michael reportedly was ("reported" by AEG execs), then it would be highly unusual to walk around with something like that???? (I'd assume there would be a bandage over it to prevent infection?) The vein would eventually break down (collapse), especially if the medication used was corrosive (i.e "burned"). Then a new vein would have to be used. I have never, EVER heard of anything like this unless the person was seriously ill or in a terribly fragile condition and required I.V.s for hydration. I mean, it's not like my neighbor does it, or any of my relatives, or anyone that I know of who wasn't seriously ill/receiving chemo, or something like that? This is just so highly UNUSUAL!

(edit) EEEEK! I've now seen the photo (from the link you gave). That would be NOTICED! Even if it was under a bandage and a long-sleeved shirt, he'd have to be careful that nobody grabbed his arm in that place! It would surely HURT, and whoever grabbed hold of his arm would FEEL that. I repeat, this is just highly unusual!
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I was thinking about the spider bite, but I don't think there is a way that a cannula or a needle would be inserted there, so imo, it's a spider bite, end of story.

On the other hand, on tours, IF Michael needed IV's regularly, for rehydration or anything else, my guess is it's safe to say one of those was used. Remember that in this pic, it's an eldery person's forearm, and I saw in the hospital cannulas much smaller than this one.

I also asked my mother about the amount of time that the cannula can be inserted and she said around two weeks, and that it can be inserted anywhere into a viable vein (ie also in the leg, but that would make dancing difficult...)

As for Murray and the needle marks, I always thought, after the first autopsy leaked, that the puncture marks were from trying to revive him (using adrenaline or anything else), because it said "fresh puncture marks". He did use something that was found in the report, but I can't remember the name of the substance. Maybe it was injected several times?
 
LaToya says that MJ had injection marks on: in between his toes, his neck & even groin. I don't know how true this is but was wondering what other ppl's thoughts on this was. Injection marks, from I am assuming his use of needles.
 
BillieJean84 said:
LaToya says that MJ had injection marks on: in between his toes, his neck & even groin. I don't know how true this is but was wondering what other ppl's thoughts on this was. Injection marks, from I am assuming his use of needles.
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Could be. I knew a female on drugs and she would inject herself in the vaginal area. The only problem I would have with this is I thought Michael was afraid of needles(meaning afraid to inject himself?) Someone maybe able to answer that for me.
 
ensleyave said:
Could be. I knew a female on drugs and she would inject herself in the vaginal area. The only problem I would have with this is I thought Michael was afraid of needles(meaning afraid to inject himself?) Someone maybe able to answer that for me.
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The only person I've ever heard say he was "afraid of needles" was Nurse Lee. I highly doubt that he was. He must have been used to that from having so many medical procedures, i.e. reconstructive surgery on his scalp?
 
I also heard others say Michael was afraid of needles including Mark Lester who gave Michael acupuncture once Michael was afraid of needles so wouldn't have it again.

I do believe this is true, even though I know we do not r trust Mark since Uri put him too putting that info out on being Paris's father
 
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I remember A.Klein saying that Michael was a needle phobic. I still find it quite unbelievable considering how many times they had to feed him intravenously when he didn't want to eat. This is unusual for the needle-phobic I guess. But who knows?
 
artik said:
I remember A.Klein saying that Michael was a needle phobic. I still find it quite unbelievable considering how many times they had to feed him intravenously when he didn't want to eat. This is unusual for the needle-phobic I guess. But who knows?
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I, also, find it unbelievable. I can't see how a "needle-phobic" would consent to IVs for nutrition (or Nurse Lee's cocktails), unless the person were very ill and needed that medically? I think it's just one of those rumors that has grown legs. The "needle-phobia" rumor kinda counters the "drug-addict" story, though. Still not buyin' either one.
 
Victoria83 said:
I, also, find it unbelievable. I can't see how a "needle-phobic" would consent to IVs for nutrition (or Nurse Lee's cocktails), unless the person were very ill and needed that medically? I think it's just one of those rumors that has grown legs. The "needle-phobia" rumor kinda counters the "drug-addict" story, though. Still not buyin' either one.
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I totally agree with this post....Michael said on MANY occasions that he was afraid of needles...why in the hell would he let Lee or Murray or anyone else for that matter VOLUNTARILY keep on sticking him with needles....this too has been bothering me....I am afraid that this is one of those question that we may never get an answer too.
 
Didnt LaToya said he also had fresh needle marks in his neck ? how sad how they murdered Michael. He probably like some of the rumors said had needle marks all over him, God Bless you Michael they want get away.
 
MJ#1WhoIsIt said:
Didnt LaToya said he also had fresh needle marks in his neck ? how sad how they murdered Michael. He probably like some of the rumors said had needle marks all over him, God Bless you Michael they want get away.
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A picture on facebook which was posted here yesterday is not on here anymore. MJ had a Tshirt on arms exposed and gold pants. Surely, someone would have seen needle marks and if they did why not report it. I am feeling sick by the minute.
 
ensleyave said:
A picture on facebook which was posted here yesterday is not on here anymore. MJ had a Tshirt on arms exposed and gold pants. Surely, someone would have seen needle marks and if they did why not report it. I am feeling sick by the minute.
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true but make up covers them up. Forgive me, I really don't know which way to 'swing' here- I'm trying to be as open-minded as possible & also, keep in mind, drug addicts will do anything for what they 'need' so it does not matter if that persons "scared of" needles... that doesn't mean that they won't inject themselves neccesarily. & please - correct me if I'm wrong. I do believe MJ was not an addict. Absolutley not an addict. He went to rehab.
 
ensleyave said:
A picture on facebook which was posted here yesterday is not on here anymore. MJ had a Tshirt on arms exposed and gold pants. Surely, someone would have seen needle marks and if they did why not report it. I am feeling sick by the minute.
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BillieJean84 said:
true but make up covers them up. Forgive me, I really don't know which way to 'swing' here- I'm trying to be as open-minded as possible & also, keep in mind, drug addicts will do anything for what they 'need' so it does not matter if that persons "scared of" needles... that doesn't mean that they won't inject themselves neccesarily. & please - correct me if I'm wrong. I do believe MJ was not an addict. Absolutley not an addict. He went to rehab.
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I believe the needle marks LaToya was referring to "she was saying where put on him the day he was murdered", she talks alot but I would too finding my brother dead, I dont think she was alluding to any type of drug behavior from Michael, but how his killers had injected him to murder him.
 
MJ#1WhoIsIt said:
I believe the needle marks LaToya was referring to "she was saying where put on him the day he was murdered", she talks alot but I would too finding my brother dead, I dont think she was alluding to any type of drug behavior from Michael, but how his killers had injected him to murder him.
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oh ok I understand now. thank you. But Murray still is charged with Malpractice / Neglect? I do not understand. This sounds like murder in the 1st degree.
 
BillieJean84 said:
oh ok I understand now. thank you. But Murray still is charged with Malpractice / Neglect? I do not understand. This sounds like murder in the 1st degree.
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I really dont believe Dr. Murray will be arrested or charged with anything that "caused Michael's Homicide", he may be charged with some type of "illegal medical practices", but I really believe LAPD and The Feds are on the trail of those who actually caused Michael's Homicide those who actually put their hands on Michael June 25, 2009 to cause his death "Intentionally". I really believe Dr. Murray was hired to do a job that even he had no ideal he would end up doing and I believe it was never intended for Dr. Murray to be the one who Murdered Michael but for it to look like he was the one, I believe he was hired to be an Illusion and to administer certain things in a long process to murder Michael but the things he had ministered he cannot deny and thats what they wanted, but they where not what cause Michael's Death, its complicated but its simple at the same time.
 
MJ#1WhoIsIt said:
I really dont believe Dr. Murray will be arrested or charged with anything that "caused Michael's Homicide", he may be charged with some type of "illegal medical practices", but I really believe LAPD and The Feds are on the trail of those who actually caused Michael's Homicide those who actually put their hands on Michael June 25, 2009 to cause his death "Intentionally". I really believe Dr. Murray was hired to do a job that even he had no ideal he would end up doing and I believe it was never intended for Dr. Murray to be the one who Murdered Michael but for it to look like he was the one, I believe he was hired to be an Illusion and to administer certain things in a long process to murder Michael but the things he had ministered he cannot deny and thats what they wanted, but they where not what cause Michael's Death, its complicated but its simple at the same time.
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I certainly hope you're right. These are very powerful people, though, with a lot of influence.

See bolded part of the quote. I actually agree with this. Murray is the fall-guy. I think it's entirely possible that he's not the one who gave Michael the fatal dose. . . . .
 
Victoria83 said:
I certainly hope you're right. These are very powerful people, though, with a lot of influence.

See bolded part of the quote. I actually agree with this. Murray is the fall-guy. I think it's entirely possible that he's not the one who gave Michael the fatal dose. . . . .
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Thank You Victoria, since Michael's MURDER I have come to this Forum and just have to back out and I believe others feel the same, I read post of people still claiming Michael was on Drugs, Dr. Murray did it and no one else, Michael was asking for an Anestheiologist, Michael had Lupus, Michael was Sick, etc. etc, and I respect this Forum and ALL its Fans but when do All realize "Michael Jackson has been Murdered" ? Im not sure if people are just ignoring the "MANY OFFICIAL FACTS" thats already out here, or really believe he was a Junkie Drug Addict living with his 3 children in the home preparing for the Biggest Comeback of his Life or if they are really just Moles sent in by Michael's Killers, because I cannot believe some of the stuff Im reading. LAPD is not the LAPD of the 60s or 70s for that matter they realize what they are dealing with "this man was Murdered and his killers have mimic it into a Drugoverdose" but they know its about the MONEY better than us. They are not trying to make themselves look bad by not arresting Dr. Murray for Michael Jackson Homicide they dont have any PROOF that he did and they have a Man that SOMEONE has Murdered and Cover It up to Look like a Movie.
 
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