THEY'RE BAD Michael Jackson hit out at The Beatles and Elvis in letters revealing fury over racism-

[Anna]

A couple of notes that are the same style as the one in here. The added bubble at the side, the underlining and use of quotation marks for emphasis, the way he's written 'the' in the red pen note is the same as how it's written in the original note from this thread, and 'book' looks similar to 'looking'.

 

[ScreenOrigami]

So I lost my bet about the red ink. Dammit. :laughing:

In context, “these little white kids” doesn’t sound nearly as wrong as it did in the Sun article.

200,000,000 albums does not seem to refer to Thriller either. If this is an authentic letter, he was trying to figure out what made Thriller so successful, and take that to make Bad even more successful. That’s how I read it.

The key to the success, he says, was his anger about racial injustice. And he’s kind of trying to replicate this with his anger about the KKK issue. That makes sense.

I still have doubts, but I can’t quite put my finger on the exact reasons yet.

 

[Electro]

A couple of notes that are the same style as the one in here. The added bubble at the side, the underlining and use of quotation marks for emphasis, the way he's written 'the' in the red pen note is the same as how it's written in the original note from this thread, and 'book' looks similar to 'looking'.

The second one is about a decade older (late 70s). There are some differences, like how he starts the "w" with a dash from the bottom, that's missing in later handwritings. But the T's and double LL's all look similar.

 

[MikeJac2005]

This is about the most PRO BLACK words EVER out of MJ and I'm loving it. Seeing the rest I'm convinced these are his genuine notes.

I just wish he never said that part about "blacks have been ugly to look at", it's sad he was made to feel that having African features were ugly, or a blocker to success. White supremacy in action + family ridicule so can't blame him. Image was clearly immensely important to him. Self-hate comes in many forms but I think he can be forgiven for it.

Also edited to add: He spoke it into existence, he prophesied it over himself - then HE ACTUALLY ACHIEVED IT ALL!!!!!!! And they are trying so very hard to destroy his legacy. The daily mail comments have bitter white people talking 'bout "why did he make himself white", "he's not better than the beatles". STFU to every last one of em.

MJ is greater than Elvis and The Beatles combined

 

[Electro]

This is about the most PRO BLACK words EVER out of MJ and I'm loving it. Seeing the rest I'm convinced these are his genuine notes.

I just wish he never said that part about "blacks have been ugly to look at", it's sad he was made to feel that having African features were ugly, or a blocker to success. White supremacy in action + family ridicule so can't blame him. Image was clearly immensely important to him. Self-hate comes in many forms but I think he can be forgiven for it

I don't think he meant black skin or black people in general, but artists, that would have to compete with white artists in a white industry that would especially push the pretty ones to be teen heros. I don't know the whole ancient history of black artists in the USA, but he probably did, and maybe thought of specific ones that were very talented but not sellable as teen idols, by pop music industry standards of the 1980s.

 

[ScreenOrigami]

A couple of notes that are the same style as the one in here. The added bubble at the side, the underlining and use of quotation marks for emphasis, the way he's written 'the' in the red pen note is the same as how it's written in the original note from this thread, and 'book' looks similar to 'looking'.

Thanks, I hadn’t seen the Beatles notes before.

One thing to keep in mind is that professional forgers look for exactly those typographical mannerisms and use them deliberately to make a document look authentic. So just comparing the handwriting with confirmed authentic documents will likely result in a match, while a forensic analysis might reveal inconsistencies that are harder to detect.

If this is real, it should also have MJ’s fingerprints on it. So the authenticity should actually be easy to prove by those who own the letter. And the burden of proof is on their side, I would say, especially since the letter surfaced in a tabloid and not on Julian’s Auctions.

I remain skeptical, especially due to the unlikely backstory about how the document was obtained.

 

[myosotis]

Thanks, I hadn’t seen the Beatles notes before.

One thing to keep in mind is that professional forgers look for exactly those typographical mannerisms and use them deliberately to make a document look authentic. So just comparing the handwriting with confirmed authentic documents will likely result in a match, while a forensic analysis might reveal inconsistencies that are harder to detect.

If this is real, it should also have MJ’s fingerprints on it. So the authenticity should actually be easy to prove by those who own the letter. And the burden of proof is on their side, I would say, especially since the letter surfaced in a tabloid and not on Julian’s Auctions.

I remain skeptical, especially due to the unlikely backstory about how the document was obtained.

Also, forgers will trace handwriting, and use words from different sources to make new 'letters' look genuine.
However, I'm now convinced that all of these notes are genuine MJ. (The story about how it was obtained does however sound very dubious, I agree).

As regards being a 'cover image', the young MJ had the misfortune to be contemporaneous with David Cassidy and Donny Osmond, both of whom were very big cover stars in teen magazines.

This cover is an example- MJ is there, but only in 'third place', and the poster insert in this case features David and Donny.

MJ and the J5 did have their own '16' covers (sometimes), posters (more often) and articles (much more often) but I'm not surprised that MJ must have felt acutely that black faces were less welcome on the covers of mainstream 'white' magazines. It's little wonder that he was angry about it.

 

[Anna]

There's nothing in the note that is out of Michael's character or writing style. I think it's genuine. I doubt they'd be able to get usable prints off those pages, but even if they did they'd still need a copy of his fingerprints for comparison.

I guess a lot of people would be surprised at this side of Michael, which is why the press are blowing it up, but that's because they're used to the gentle, sweet, childlike facade that he presented to the world. Which was not a complete representation of who he was.
He was gentle, sweet, and compassionate, but he was also incredibly ambitious, passionate, determined, stubborn, and arrogant at times.

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

"Throughout history white men
have always branded the pages of
history with great white hopes
putting whites over blacks as
nobles like Elvis being The King
of Rock and Roll
Springsteen being the boss
or The Beatles being the best.
Yes these guys were good
but they weren't better singers
or dancers than the blacks.
The difference is whites control
the press the media and they can
make the public believe whatever
they desire. Plus a lot of blacks have been
ugly to look at. You must be beautiful looking.
I will change this "NOW"
with the power of my songs and dance
and "looks" and total reclusiveness
and mystery world(?).
I will rule as the king.
I am not prejudice, it's
just time for the first
black king now."


Yikes...

What's wrong with this? Except for maybe the last part which seems a bit too much, he was and is completely right and it has been proven time and time again throughout the history of music. These are nothing but facts. I believe MJ wrote this. Remember the HIstory statue? let's admit it MJ did have an ego, as did 99.9% of the of the music industry. MJ's ego was never obnoxious in any way and it's completely normal to want to be the best in your field. Muhammed Ali, Mike Tyson and countles other great black/white athletes and artists used the same rhetoric. It's all in the name of the game if you ask me.

 

[Anna]

What's wrong with this?

The first section is all right. But this:

"Plus a lot of blacks have been
ugly to look at. You must be beautiful looking.
I will change this "NOW"
with the power of my songs and dance
and "looks" and total reclusiveness
and mystery world(?).
I will rule as the king.
I am not prejudice, it's
just time for the first
black king now."

 

[SmoothGangsta]

I don't really see anything wrong with it. It's a private motivational note and I think a lot of the things he was feeling he was justified in feeling

 

[myosotis]

There's nothing in the note that is out of Michael's character or writing style. I think it's genuine. I doubt they'd be able to get usable prints off those pages, but even if they did they'd still need a copy of his fingerprints for comparison.

I guess a lot of people would be surprised at this side of Michael, which is why the press are blowing it up, but that's because they're used to the gentle, sweet, childlike facade that he presented to the world. Which was not a complete representation of who he was.
He was gentle, sweet, and compassionate, but he was also incredibly ambitious, passionate, determined, stubborn, and arrogant at times.

MJ released a 'fingerprint pendant' - only 1/10 of the set, but nice to have for collectors

 

[ScreenOrigami]

There’s nothing wrong with what he said. It’s all very true, of course. But I’m still struggling with “Plus a lot of blacks have been ugly to look at.” All the interpretations so far are possible, but somehow not really convincing.

There are also some “soft factors” that let me remain skeptical. Someone here said the whole thing looked like someone was trying just a bit too hard to make it appear real. That’s my overall impression also.

Then there’s nothing in this whole letter that’s new or exclusive information. It’s basically a collage of his 1979 manifesto, his talks in 2002, a couple of thoughts from his book, and several interviews pieced together to a story. Not hard proof of anything either, of course, since MJ was very consistent with his thoughts. It’s just something I noticed. Anyone would be able to write this.

Then there’s the time frame. The letter is supposed to be from June 1987. At this time, MJ was almost done with the Bad album. So whatever fire or anger had inspired him to write and record these songs was already in the past and for the most part on tape. It seems odd that he started to think about these things at that particular point in time. A year earlier this would have been more likely, in my opinion.

And as far as forensic analysis goes, it may be true that fingerprints would be hard to find after so many years. I’m no expert, so this might indeed be a problem.

What they do, though, is for example analyze the age of the paper and type and brand of ink. They also look at the actual handwriting more in-depth. For example, when someone forges a handwriting, they might be using more pressure than the person himself would. Or they might be using an upstroke where the person himself would use a downstroke. They also compare “soft factors” such as overall tone, vocabulary, choice of words, common misspellings and typos, and so on.

 

[MikeJac2005]

There’s nothing wrong with what he said. It’s all very true, of course. But I’m still struggling with “Plus a lot of blacks have been ugly to look at.” All the interpretations so far are possible, but somehow not really convincing.

I think the "Blacks have been ugly to look at" comment needs to be understood in context of his own (black) family ridiculing his African nose, and not being on the cover of magazines....Force fed European beauty standards/ideals...this is the lie everyone is sold that he internalised and caused him to think he was ugly and needed surgery to change it. Self-hate is complex and the psychological effects of white supremacy run deep. Still love my man

 

[ScreenOrigami]

I think the "Blacks have been ugly to look at" comment needs to be understood in context of his own (black) family ridiculing his African nose, and not being on the cover of magazines....Force fed European beauty standards/ideals...this is the lie everyone is sold that he internalised and caused him to think he was ugly and needed surgery to change it. Self-hate is complex and the psychological effects of white supremacy run deep. Still love my man

In June 1987 he already had his nose and chin changed and he also addressed this in his book. I think the whole self-hate narrative is blown way out of proportion. Everyone has their own insecurities, but I don’t believe his father and brothers mocking him for his nose had anything to do with European beauty standards. The 60’s and 70’s were a time of Black pride where people celebrated Black beauty. MJ would always only talk positively about Black people, he surrounded himself with many Black people, he had Black people star in his short films, he wrote a song about a beautiful Liberian Girl, he traveled to Africa frequently and so on. He always seemed to feel very positively about Black culture and Black people.

 

[myosotis]

In June 1987 he already had his nose and chin changed and he also addressed this in his book. I think the whole self-hate narrative is blown way out of proportion. Everyone has their own insecurities, but I don’t believe his father and brothers mocking him for his nose had anything to do with European beauty standards. The 60’s and 70’s were a time of Black pride where people celebrated Black beauty. MJ would always only talk positively about Black people, he surrounded himself with many Black people, he had Black people star in his short films, he wrote a song about a beautiful Liberian Girl, he traveled to Africa frequently and so on. He always seemed to feel very positively about Black culture and Black people.

I agree. Also, he's not talking about 'hating himself' or feeling ugly - he's talking about wanting to be a 'hero for white kids' so that they will stop throwing stones at other black folk. Which is a very laudable motivation. Also he want to be wealthy and famous - he knows that wealth and fame bring influence.

 

[Thriller_MJ]

I think these notes/letters are a fascinating insight into Michaels psyche. It's very evident he had image issues and somehow he thought being black was being seen as being ugly in his mind, no wonder he thought that considering how he used to be made-fun of when he was young by Joseph. He wasn't having a dig at Springsteen, Elvis & The Beatles he was merely saying that the Music industry is racist and likes to put clean-cut white guys as the poster boys for the industry while black musicians/performers had to fight that much harder and when Michael started breaking records by The Beatles and Elvis and setting new ones in the process is when the press turned against him IMO. He actually had a favourable relationship with the media in the 70s right up till Off The Wall, it was only when Thriller pretty much changed the pop music landscape is when the press turned against him, also him buying The Beatles catalogue may have been a factor in that too.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

The first section is all right. But this:

"Plus a lot of blacks have been
ugly to look at. You must be beautiful looking.
I will change this "NOW"
with the power of my songs and dance
and "looks" and total reclusiveness
and mystery world(?).
I will rule as the king.
I am not prejudice, it's
just time for the first
black king now."

Dont see anything wrong with that. Hes stating what the white run media thought/think. Why black faces werent on the covers of the big magazines etc.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

I think these notes/letters are a fascinating insight into Michaels psyche. It's very evident he had image issues and somehow he thought being black was being seen as being ugly in his mind, no wonder he thought that considering how he used to be made-fun of when he was young by Joseph. He wasn't having a dig at Springsteen, Elvis & The Beatles he was merely saying that the Music industry is racist and likes to put clean-cut white guys as the poster boys for the industry while black musicians/performers had to fight that much harder and when Michael started breaking records by The Beatles and Elvis and setting new ones in the process is when the press turned against him IMO. He actually had a favourable relationship with the media in the 70s right up till Off The Wall, it was only when Thriller pretty much changed the pop music landscape is when the press turned against him, also him buying The Beatles catalogue may have been a factor in that too.

Good points. Still suspicious of its origins but as nornal mj was spot on. Like he said in 2002 about the R.S been on the front cover of mags etc and it seemed like R&R was created by white artists.. certain artists can do no wrong and could release an album of them farting the phone directory and the music press would call it a masterpeice and give it 5 stars!!

 

[ScreenOrigami]

I think we didn’t have a post with the full set in correct order yet:

Page 1: “What made Thriller big”

• attached to the KKK article (see top left corner)
• paper ripped out of a notebook
• main text written with a ballpoint pen

Page 2: “Elvis is not King”

• backside of page 1
• same pen

Page 3: “throughout history”

• letter size (?) paper from a folder
• not attached to KKK article (corners of paper are all intact)
• main text written with a fountain pen

Page 4: “I love white people Black people”

• backside of page 4
• main text written with a fountain pen
• additional text and drawing with ballpoint pen

So the full transcript reads:

WHAT MADE THRILLER BIG

I have found that when I have a reason, a deep reason of anger, I really come through to prove myself like on Thriller.
I hated unequality in record business
Blacks weren't able to be on MTV, the most watched musical show.
Signs like Disco Sucks all over town
The cross over unequality
Not being able to be on cover of white publications.
being told 'we don't put Blacks on our covers, Blacks don't sale (sell).'
All this put fire in me to sale (sell) the biggest selling album
of all time to get recognition
to have whites and Black of all races love me
to be on cover of Time, Life, Newsweek
But I did it all out of anger, to get even, to prove myself.

Elvis is not king
Show Springsteen whose boss
I will have the entire Mags of Time, Newsweek, People.
I was very very angry. I had to prove myself, and change things.
Do it 200,000,000 for the white children, so they'll have Black heroes.
So they don't grow up prejudice, all kids.
Now what must I do out of anger on this album to prove myself.
There's a whole new generation of white kids who are children to the KKK
I saw on the news on Martin Luther King's birthday, these kids were watching their parents stone black people. They will grow up prejudice(d). They hate Blacks. My goal is to become so big, so powerful, to become such a hero to end prejudice to make these little white kids love me by selling over 200,000,000 albums.
Make them look up to me. I will change I have changed. +200,000,00 the world.

Throughout history white men
have always branded the pages of
history with great white hopes
putting whites over blacks as
nobles like Elvis being The King
of Rock and Roll
Springsteen being the boss
or The Beatles being the best.
Yes these guys were good
but they weren't better singers
or dancers than the blacks.
The difference is whites control
the press the media and they can
make the public believe whatever
they desire. Plus a lot of blacks have been
ugly to look at. You must be beautiful looking.
I will change this "NOW"
with the power of my songs and dance
and "looks" and total reclusiveness
and mystery world(?).
I will rule as the king.
I am not prejudice, it's
just time for the first
black king now. and

Forever. I love White people, Black people, All races.
I want what's fair. Now is the time for my Kingship.
I want all races to love as one.
Now MJ the King forever.
Hide. Recluse. Genius. Billionaire.
Strange. Beautiful Face. Greatest actor, singer, dancer, performer.

 

[ScreenOrigami]

I found an article about the stoning that is mentioned in the letter, here’s an excerpt:

Martin Luther King Day in Georgia 1987: Hosea Williams marches on Forsyth County

[…]

On Saturday, January 17, they led seventy-five marchers, mostly from Atlanta, to Forsyth County in a “Brotherhood Anti-intimidation March.” They arrived late, and the seventy-five-man police and state-trooper force assigned to protect them was unable to stop a crowd of about five hundred Klansmen and sympathizers from overwhelming the police lines.

The counter-demonstrators had been worked up to a fever pitch by hate speeches by J. B. Stoner, who had been released from his Alabama prison sentence for church bombing just two months before. Grand Dragon Dave Holland of the Southern White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan joined Stoner in whipping members of the crowd, waving Confederate battle flags, into a frenzy. Hundreds of jeering, screaming whites broke through the police cordon and threw rocks and bottles at the marchers while shouting racial slurs. Williams said, “In thirty years in the civil rights movement, I haven’t seen racism any more sick than here today.” The march was called off when police told the marchers that they could not ensure their safety. Officers arrested eight of the most violent Klansmen. All but one were Forsyth County residents.

News of the attack spread quickly. Pictures of hate-contorted faces and flying rocks and bottles were reminiscent of the brutality of Birmingham and Selma in decades past. On Sunday, the Klan attack was discussed throughout the nation; it had come amid concerns about the increasing number of racial incidents in the United States.

[…]

Full article: https://brambleman.com/martin-luther-king-day-in-georgia-1987-hosea-williams-marches-on-forsyth-county/

 

[wednesday]

So Michael Jackson had some fire in his belly and was fueled by injustice and bigotry against his own race. Nothing new to see here. Love this KING of a man.

 

[wednesday]

He was ... arrogant at times.

Hmm... I don't remember Michael ever being arrogant or acting arrogantly in public. Defiant? Yes.

 

[MikeJac2005]

I loooooveeeee these writings by him. So POWERFUL! The way he manifested his dreams is very, very inspiring...HE DID IT!!!!. (ok, maybe not acting) As a black person this hits different, he overcame everything. He remains my biggest role model and #BlackSuperhero as the estate like to put it.

MJ owned The Beatles music, and married Elvis' daughter. The power. *Chefs kiss*

 

[Antwort]

There's nothing in the note that is out of Michael's character or writing style. I think it's genuine. I doubt they'd be able to get usable prints off those pages, but even if they did they'd still need a copy of his fingerprints for comparison.

I guess a lot of people would be surprised at this side of Michael, which is why the press are blowing it up, but that's because they're used to the gentle, sweet, childlike facade that he presented to the world. Which was not a complete representation of who he was.
He was gentle, sweet, and compassionate, but he was also incredibly ambitious, passionate, determined, stubborn, and arrogant at times.

So Michael Jackson had some fire in his belly and was fueled by injustice and bigotry against his own race. Nothing new to see here.

Can't help but agree, especially with the things I've bolded out. Although writing, voice and pictures can be manipulated and forged, the human spirit can never be duplicated. And although some may still wonder about the authenticity of these pages, I very much agree with those who say that they are well within Michael's thought process and motivation.

Surely, it doesn't come as a surprise to anyone who knows anything worthwhile about Michael that racism WAS the main factor and motivator for him to create Thriller and break world records, or does it? The man expressed himself quite clearly on more than one occasion. He was hurt and upset at the way in which OTW had been snubbed at the Grammys, he was upset about wretched magazine covers and MTV's bias - he set his mind to do a record they would not be able to ignore.

He put it out in the lyrics to Sammy Davis Jr's tribute....

The thoughts in these pages actually remind me of a convo I was having someee months ago with someone about racism and how History books have been filled with lies and I was made aware of affluent African-American folks that conventional History didn't write about. It was quite interesting a conversation, the rest of it though doesn't matter in this particular context.

Good points. Still suspicious of its origins but as nornal mj was spot on. Like he said in 2002 about the R.S been on the front cover of mags etc

They did everything to turn the public against me. @5:35

They've been doing that for decades and have yet to stop. Thankfully, it never really worked and it never will.

The other week I was wondering who it was that Michael meant by they in TDCAU, but I reckon an even better q is WHY was Michael targeted so darn much over time???

Racism does cover some ground and it definitely is part of the explanation for all the hate, accusations and vitriol poured out on his good name. Yet, I can't help but feel that it doesn't completely explain the viciousness and the continuity of the attacks. I am afraid at the root of Michael's problems there are even darker and deeper issues than racism, as hard as it may seem to grasp.

Irrespective of the causes for the terrible tribulations and their manifestations, the man's regal status remains firmly embedded in world History and culture. No matter how much detractors, sick puppet masters and lame street media tools try to deny his achievements and his innocence, decent people, in their overwhelming majority, will see through their schemes and lies.

One of the reasons they hate him so much is the fact that it wasn't the media that fueled his popularity; it was the people. And since the media didn't create 'him', they cannot bring him down either, not matter how much they try.

The man was, is and always will be KING,,,,of music and the arts,,,,,of generosity and hearts.

And I couldn't be more proud of him - what he stood for, what he faced and defeated, what he represents - a true champion of the people, of ALL people, especially the most vulnerable ones in society and throughout the world, children in need.

Love this KING of a man.

:heart:

:heart:

 

[Hulkamaniac]

He do be spittin' facts doe.

 

[terrell]

There are headlines calling him King of Pop as early as 1984, though. With a quick search I found this one, but I’m pretty sure I’ve seen more.

That was one. MJ was called MONARCH of Pop by one and Prince of Pop by one, what I am talking about these titles was not stuck to him like titles like Queen of Soul (Arthea); Godfather of Soul; The king like Elvis until the Dangerous. Look during the BAD era, MJ was not called no King until the Dangerous era. During Dangerous, they just said King of Pop and even then, many called MJ "self proclaim" despite MJ earned it (really that title is an injustice to MJ for what he was. What Liz said was more fitting (King of Rock, Pop, and Soul) even two faced Oprah pretty much said the title King of Pop is limited to what MJ was.

 

[ScreenOrigami]

That was one. MJ was called MONARCH of Pop by one and Prince of Pop by one, what I am talking about these titles was not stuck to him like titles like Queen of Soul (Arthea); Godfather of Soul; The king like Elvis until the Dangerous. Look during the BAD era, MJ was not called no King until the Dangerous era. During Dangerous, they just said King of Pop and even then, many called MJ "self proclaim" despite MJ earned it (really that title is an injustice to MJ for what he was. What Liz said was more fitting (King of Rock, Pop, and Soul) even two faced Oprah pretty much said the title King of Pop is limited to what MJ was.

I see. I’m still new and my collection is a mess, I just recalled that I had seen a few King of Pop headlines, but not how many. :laughing:

 

[Amaya]

I don't really see anything wrong with it. It's a private motivational note and I think a lot of the things he was feeling he was justified in feeling

I think fans are more concerned with how the media will interpret this than how it should really be interpreted. The media loved to portray Michael as selfish/egotistical/a pedo/whatever other negative thing they felt like slapping on him, so the King bit at the end of the letters could be twisted around and people will fall for it.

It's cool that he wrote this but the fact that they were released and twisted by a tabloid taints them for me.

 

[ScreenOrigami]

I think fans are more concerned with how the media will interpret this than how it should really be interpreted. The media loved to portray Michael as selfish/egotistical/a pedo/whatever other negative thing they felt like slapping on him, so the King bit at the end of the letters could be twisted around and people will fall for it.

This is exactly why I’m trying to remain skeptical. It just seems a little bit too convenient that a document that the tabloids can interpret in their own way would appear out of nowhere a few days before his birthday.

We ended up with three fake songs on an official album. I’m skeptical about everything.