What do you want to see from the Estate? (fans wishlist thread)

What type of release would you prefer?

  • Hi-Res album release

    Votes: 16 69.6%
  • Faux Unplugged set

    Votes: 6 26.1%
  • Full-on club experience

    Votes: 3 13.0%
  • Symphonic Masterpiece

    Votes: 8 34.8%

  • Total voters
    23

NatureCriminal7896

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Nobody comparing the two. but it simply seem that Prince did do more than Michael. that's not saying they wasn't great artists. it's kind of sad that Prince estate is doing more for prince then Michael estate. i guess maybe it because Michael left us too soon without making changes etc. love Michael but he should of been more serious about his things. prince on the other hand made sure things went right on his side.
 

Anna

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Come on. Let's be objective here.

1. Prince was infinitely more prolific than Michael.
2. There aren't 35 finished songs available, unless you count the various leaks. There's also demos and early versions of already-released songs, the vast majority of which are scratch vocals over music we've already heard (with a couple exceptions). Go listen to the demos of "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'," "Baby Be Mine," "Billie Jean," "Jam," "In the Closet," "Keep the Faith," or "Gone Too Soon." I dunno about you, but I'm not paying money for a demo unless it sounds nothing like the completed version (e.g., "The Girl is Mine," "Thriller"/"Starlight").
3. Matt Forger said there's maybe one album's worth of releasable material left. I'd rather they spread that out than dump it on us at once. There will come a day when we will hear the last finished Michael Jackson song. I'd rather that happen years down the line than right now.
4. Right now, the HBO lawsuit is a more pressing issue than giving us music or concerts. Prince isn't facing anything like this.

I imagine my Estate defending is sounding like a broken record, but there seems to be an awful amount of unfair criticism going on here, especially in light of the upcoming Prince project: "We know the Estate is knee-deep in a $100 million legal effort to expose a heinous 'documentary' and the company that funded it, but who cares? We want them to empty the vault in one fell swoop, and to give us concerts that we aren't sure they have access to and that weren't recorded on multi-track, most of which would be sourced from tapes that wouldn't allow an HD upscale!"

Exactly!
 

DuranDuran

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I think MJs method has always been solid Quality > Quantity.
I think Prince just didn't have that much a life outside of music. That's all he did. He would do a concert and sometimes do another full show at a club after it.

If you notice, that before the mid 1970s, many artists released a lot of records because that is what was required from the record labels of the acts back then, especially with rock music. That's how the labels can continue to release new songs to this day by Elvis Presley, Jimi Hendrix, & The Beatles and that the J5 have so much unreleased material. They recorded a lot more material than was was put out. During a period in the 1960s, James Brown released around 9 different albums in a 2 or 3 year period plus non-album singles & produced records by other singers/bands. The Beatles and other performers made albums and non-album singles. It was in the mid-1970s when the labels started to milk albums for a longer period. That is when the blockbuster albums from Led Zeppelin, Fleetwood Mac, Boston, & the Saturday Night Fever soundtrack came about. That wasn't really possible before the 1970s, because acts released records really often. They averaged 2 or 3 albums a year. A album 1960s and before might have only had 1 or 2 singles, maybe 3, put out from it. The huge success of Thriller couldn't have happened in the 1960s or before, because it most likely would have been promoted just a few months and then the next thing would have came out. That's how the Jackson 5 released more studio albums (and that's not including the solo ones Motown put out on the brothers) in about 6 or 7 years than Mike did in the 30 year period from 1979 to 2009, including the 2 he did with The Jacksons.
 

mjfan_93

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AlwaysThere;4269031 said:
He worked on "Changes" on and off for 23 years and never recorded a proper lead vocal.

There‘s so much new information to me regarding unreleased content in this thread already. You seems to have really great insider information. I always thought „Changes“ is another track that is mostly done.
We need a list of unreleased songs with all the Information we have about them so that every fan has access to it.
 

AlwaysThere

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mjfan_93;4269045 said:
There‘s so much new information to me regarding unreleased content in this thread already. You seems to have really great insider information. I always thought „Changes“ is another track that is mostly done.
We need a list of unreleased songs with all the Information we have about them so that every fan has access to it.

I made a thread a while ago, but it hasn't been properly updated in ages. I should get on that!

I'm always looking for more info, so anyone who has heard unreleased songs and is willing to share some information (e.g., completion, lyrics, sounds), I'd love to hear about it!
 

ChrisC

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I'm actually shocked that there aren't more than 170 songs released across Michael's entire career. I'd have put the total at double that.
 

kai

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My wish would be that they listen to the fans...
 

AlwaysThere

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I'm actually shocked that there aren't more than 170 songs released across Michael's entire career. I'd have put the total at double that.

I thought the same thing! If you only consider material off his solo studio albums, that number drops to 115.
 

NatureCriminal7896

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Well i guess that means Prince did do more then Michael. danggggg. :laughing: that's gonna take awhile to sink in. wow. congrats prince. you deserve it just like Michael did.
 

AlwaysThere

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mjfan_93;4268909 said:
Do we know anything about the song „Rocker“? I remember reading on this forum that this song was recorded in his final years and is complete. But I am not sure if this information is true.

I lied -- I had some info buried in my computer!

"Rocker" was written by Michael and recorded in 2008, I believe with Brad Buxer and Michael Prince. It's not finished, but there are vocals (though I have no idea how much/what state they're in). Predictably, it's a rock song that, according to someone who heard it, sounds nothing like anything Michael's ever done.
 

mjfan_93

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I made a thread a while ago, but it hasn't been properly updated in ages. I should get on that!

I'm always looking for more info, so anyone who has heard unreleased songs and is willing to share some information (e.g., completion, lyrics, sounds), I'd love to hear about it!

Oh please do that. We need a proper list with all informations we have ?
 

z21

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Come on. Let's be objective here.

1. Prince was infinitely more prolific than Michael.
2. There aren't 35 finished songs available, unless you count the various leaks. There's also demos and early versions of already-released songs, the vast majority of which are scratch vocals over music we've already heard (with a couple exceptions). Go listen to the demos of "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'," "Baby Be Mine," "Billie Jean," "Jam," "In the Closet," "Keep the Faith," or "Gone Too Soon." I dunno about you, but I'm not paying money for a demo unless it sounds nothing like the completed version (e.g., "The Girl is Mine," "Thriller"/"Starlight").
3. Matt Forger said there's maybe one album's worth of releasable material left. I'd rather they spread that out than dump it on us at once. There will come a day when we will hear the last finished Michael Jackson song. I'd rather that happen years down the line than right now.
4. Right now, the HBO lawsuit is a more pressing issue than giving us music or concerts. Prince isn't facing anything like this.

I imagine my Estate defending is sounding like a broken record, but there seems to be an awful amount of unfair criticism going on here, especially in light of the upcoming Prince project: "We know the Estate is knee-deep in a $100 million legal effort to expose a heinous 'documentary' and the company that funded it, but who cares? We want them to empty the vault in one fell swoop, and to give us concerts that we aren't sure they have access to and that weren't recorded on multi-track, most of which would be sourced from tapes that wouldn't allow an HD upscale!"

Estate released non Michael Jackson songs and after almost 10 years they are still in his official discography. Prince's Estate didnt do such shit. Instead of releasing "new" songs right now, they should apologize for that, erase fake song from MJs discography and give us ****ing original versions of rest track from feral album. Prince's Estate didnt do such shit.
 

NatureCriminal7896

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There's no comparing on this thread but one thing i have to say even if Prince songs not new at least his estate doing something.
 

DuranDuran

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Well i guess that means Prince did do more then Michael. danggggg. :laughing: that's gonna take awhile to sink in. wow. congrats prince. you deserve it just like Michael did.
What is it that they deserve? If Prince has recorded more material, then that's just what it is. It would seem to me that if Mike had a lot of usuable songs, then there would be no reason for fake songs or putting music over snippet vocals like Love Never Felt So Good. I though they should have had Justin Timberlake sing the 2nd verse form the Johnny Mathis version than just repeating what Mike sang.

It's like the deluxe Beatles albums that have been released the last 2 years. Or the Paul McCartney ones with a book & DVD of videos & behind the scenes footage. That's where the alternate Say Say Say was on. In their case, there's unreleased songs and alternate versions of already released songs.
 

AlwaysThere

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Estate released non Michael Jackson songs and after almost 10 years they are still in his official discography. Prince's Estate didnt do such shit. Instead of releasing "new" songs right now, they should apologize for that, erase fake song from MJs discography and give us ****ing original versions of rest track from feral album. Prince's Estate didnt do such shit.

No one here is saying the Estate hasn't royally f*cked up in the past. They have. But that doesn't warrant deconstructing and complaining about every single minute decision they make, even if that decision is to forestall projects while they focus on winning the HBO lawsuit.

On top of that, I've accepted we will never get a direct admission from the Estate. While that would be the ideal endgame, realistically that could only result in a PR disaster the likes of which the world has never seen. No company has ever released fraudulent songs of a deceased artist. Not saying this is a reason to forgive them, but it would not even remotely surprise me if they never commented on it again.

And again, I'll state the obvious: there are very few remaining songs and, so far as we know, very little video footage. It makes more sense to draw that out over decades than to void the vault at once. Prince's Estate can afford it because Prince was one of the most prolific (and organized) artists to ever live. Michael wasn't.
 

dam2040

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Very few remaining songs sure but they release absolutely nothing and haven’t for 5 years
 

mthalen

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I’d like them to put on a traveling exhibition of MJ items. Outfits, awards, random stuff they have.
If I were them I’d create an MJ exhibit as Versailles Castle :D
Like Jeff Koons and Takeshi Murakami some years ago.
 

AlwaysThere

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dam2040;4269164 said:
Very few remaining songs sure but they release absolutely nothing and haven’t for 5 years

Posthumous albums don't make Sony or the Estate any money.

Singers make the vast majority of their income via touring, merchandise, and sponsorships. Songs and albums are a very, very minute percentage of their overall earnings. That's sadly a reality of the current music industry, which makes it difficult for estates of deceased artists such as Michael to adapt: concerts are impossible, merchandise sales dissipate the longer removed we get from the artist's death, and sponsorships are lost to younger and more current artists.

That's why the Cirque shows and This Is It are the Estate's highest grossers, whereas Bad 25 lost money.

Worse yet, no company will come within spitting distance of Michael in the wake of Leaving Neverland, so any chance at another run with Pepsi or any sort of high octane marketing campaign with another household brand is gone for the foreseeable future.

New material has been scarce because it doesn't make financial sense. Just because the Estate and Sony are profitable companies doesn't mean they would or should spend money just because fans want them to. No business on Earth would do something without an expected financial return, and sadly that's isn't a guarantee in 2019 (especially parallel to the HBO lawsuit).

And it's again worth mentioning that (1) the Estate doesn't have half as much material as people insist they do, and (2) the material they DO have is either unfinished or in too poor condition to be released.

I want new stuff, too. But the Estate's logic is sound in my opinion. So many of these complaints seems to come from fan greed and an unfair sense of entitlement than anything. (All due respect.)
 

Hulkamaniac

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Cirque shows are nothing compared to new releases, or concerts released in real HD sourced from film and being shown in cinemas. do you really believe that they don't make any money? that's nonsense.
 

DuranDuran

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Singers make the vast majority of their income via touring, merchandise, and sponsorships. Songs and albums are a very, very minute percentage of their overall earnings. That's sadly a reality of the current music industry, which makes it difficult for estates of deceased artists such as Michael to adapt: concerts are impossible, merchandise sales dissipate the longer removed we get from the artist's death, and sponsorships are lost to younger and more current artists
The Rolling Stones probably haven't had a hit record since the 1980s. But their tours continue to be big money makers. Other veterans like Will Smith, Queen Latifah, & Ice Cube do more acting than music and Ice Cube also owns a basketball league. Rihanna has a popular makeup line with Fenty Beauty. Artists make very little money with streaming. But most artists didn't make a lot of money from record sales in the pre-internet days either because of the bad contracts labels signed them to.

Today there's oldies songs being used in movies, TV, commercials, and video games as well as movies & Broadway shows based on the catalog of different acts like the Four Seasons, Cher, Beatles, Abba, Dolly Parton etc. In the past songs were covered a lot so that is money for songwriters. Today's pop music is mainly hip hop, which doesn't really fit with cover versions. They tend to fit with the act who originally released it, not with someone else, so there's fewer remakes of modern hits. Just about anybody can perform a song like Stand By Me by Ben E King, but they cannot doKendrick Lamar, Megan Thee Stallion, Drake, or Cardi B songs. Also with sampling, any royalties is split with a lot of people, especially if the song contains multiple samples.
 

DuranDuran

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sales

Cirque shows are nothing compared to new releases, or concerts released in real HD sourced from film and being shown in cinemas. do you really believe that they don't make any money? that's nonsense.
How many concerts have been released to movie theaters over the decades? Not that many and very few made much money. The highest grossing one is Hannah Montana I think and that's because of her teen audience. Most albums by new popular acts don't sell a lot other than maybe Adele, Bruno Mars & Taylor Swift. Today's audience streams the music. They don't even put CD players in cars anymore as a default and newer laptops/PCs often don't have a disc drive. So the average person doesn't even own something to play a CD on. If a lot people bought music today, then Billboard wouldn't use streaming in their chart criteria and the RIAA wouldn't count a certain amount of streams as a sale of an album. Can't make a lot money from ghost sales.

It's hard for
any movie to make money today at the theater that's not superheroes, Disney remakes, family animation movies, and horror to a lesser extent.
 
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83magic

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what Michael released during his lifetime is everlasting. I couldn't ask for anything more :)
 

NatureCriminal7896

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What i mean that Prince deserve fame just like Michael did. especially the fact he did more then him material work. i'm not comparing the two at all. i'm just saying though. congrats prince he deserve it just like Michael did.
 

AlwaysThere

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Cirque shows are nothing compared to new releases

The Immortal tour is the eleventh highest-grossing tour in history with $371 million in ticket sales. The Vegas residency has been a consistent best-seller for nearly seven years, and has reportedly seen a huge upsurge in popularity in the wake of Leaving Neverland. And that isn't even accounting for merchandise sales, which (as established) is an artist's predominant source of income.

Furthermore, Forbes has credited the Cirque shows as one of the Estate's predominant sources of income in their year-end list of highest-grossing dead celebrities every year since 2012 (and even called them the number one generator in 2013 and 2015).

That's not nothing.

or concerts released in real HD sourced from film and being shown in cinemas. do you really believe that they don't make any money? that's nonsense.

Digitally remastering film to theater standards (2K resolution minimum) costs several hundred thousand dollars on average. The last theatrically-released concert film to gross over $1 million (One Direction: This is Us) came out six years ago. Since studios operate on the classic adage of "double your budget = break even" (which oftentimes doesn't apply when considering promotion, distribution costs, and theater fees), the likelihood of success is low.

There is literally and objectively no financial incentive for the Estate to release a concert right now. They'd lose money.
 
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