florenzius_
Proud Member
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2019
- Messages
- 3
- Points
- 0
I want a new album or at least a bunch of new singles.
I'll take anything haha
I'll take anything haha
mj_frenzy;4269277 said:Quantity does not translate into quality here.
A large part of that posthumously released material from the Michael Jackson’s Estate consists of contemporizations, remixed versions, songs with incomplete Michael Jackson's vocals, songs with inauthentic Michael Jackson's vocals, compilations of previously released material, and so on.
IMWhizzle;4269287 said:Michael himself told in interview he recorded 100+ songs for every album. So I don’t believe the rumors that his vault is empty. Don’t know where this rumor came from. The BAD album alone was supposed to be a triple album. There is so much left, finished or unfinished. For invincible alone there is so much left in finished state that you can fill a whole album and release it.
It’s so obvious that the estate released songs which were leaked online before and then some. They have enough left. But they play the lazy annoying game.
cannot release (e.g., ... anything with Quincy Jones).
There's a rumor that a couple of the recent Prince releases came from a cassette source and not a master tape. The piano album was confirmed to come from cassette and one of the songs was used for the Spike Lee movie BlacKkKlansman. It was just Prince practicing, not something intended for release. There's supposed to be hundreds of these cassettes of things not studio recorded. It's been said the unreleased songs on the Purple Rain reissue came from cassette too. I don't know if that's true or not. But there is a skip or drop out on Erotic City that's not on the original single.Even with the new Prince project, you're still required to buy an album you've already heard to gain access to the material you haven't.
Anna;4269292 said:He wrote a lot of songs for each album. He didn't properly record all of them. And no way he recorded 100 songs for every album, that's nuts. And that contradicts what he said in the Mexico deposition. Most of the stuff he recorded that wasn't used wouldn't have good enough vocals or any vocals suitable for release.
AlwaysThere;4269323 said:Of course, but quantity is the issue at hand. There are plenty of warranted (and unwarranted) complaints to make as to the quality of the Estate's projects, but to insinuate that such projects are in any way lacking in terms of presented material is absurd.
The Estate, between 2009 and 2019, has published 24 songs (of which 18 were never-before-released and 15 were presented in their original, unaltered form), a documentary chronicling rehearsals for the ill-fated This Is It, a documentary imbued with exclusive behind the scenes footage from the Bad era, a DVD of what many consider to be the best show of the Bad tour, and the first Michael Jackson live album.
None of these projects are without blemish, but they represent one of the most extensive posthumous catalogs ever. Very few deceased artists receive such far-reaching treatment and, while no one is required to purchase/support them, it is ridiculous to demand more simply because YOU didn't like them.
Recording 100+ songs =/= finishing 100+ songs.
Nearly every one of Michael's collaborators, from studio technicians to musicians to songwriters, have established that the overwhelming majority of existing material lacks usable vocals. Completed material is scarce, and half-finished songs with scratch vocals are of use only to the dedicated among us and won't foster any good business with the general public. I believe it was Matt Forger who stated that there are perhaps 15-18 songs with finished vocals left; no wonder the Estate pads out albums with previously leaked albums.
That's not even addressing the numerous songs that the estate either doesn't have (e.g., the Bahrain sessions) or cannot release (e.g., the will.i.am tracks, anything with Quincy Jones).
The Estate doesn't have a lot left. That's a verified fact from numerous people outside the Estate who have more first-hand knowledge of you or I.
Why would that be at this point?
mj_frenzy;4269344 said:Michael Jackson revealed in the ‘Killer Thriller’ speech in 2002 that he writes at least 120 songs for each album and he also implied that he records them too (as he said at that event, he can choose any of them at any given time for a possible, future release).
Also, Matt Forger said specifically that Michael Jackson was in the habit of recording many songs for each album and then put most of them on the shelf (this also clearly implies a lot of outtakes generally with finished vocals, not just 15-18).
Michael Jackson used to record many songs, especially before the direction of a certain studio album began to shape (as confirmed also by Bruce Swedien).
The ‘Invincible’ sessions in particular (that spanned over a period of nearly 4 years) have still a lot of unheard, nearly completed tracks to offer (even though many of them lack the final mix, but they have almost full vocals).
People who were present at some of those ‘Invincible’ sessions have confirmed that, too (like, Sisqó, or Puff Daddy, among others).
When Michael Jackson died, the rights to most of those unheard tracks automatically reverted back to his Estate (as it is the legal norm in such cases), meaning that the Estate has them and can also release them.
Quincy sued the Estate and received a fraction of what he sought, not to mention the fact that (barring archive footage) he was absent from the Off the Wall and Bad documentaries. He'll likely never willingly collaborate with them.
I was about to say that it's kind of normal, that the amounts people sue for usually are never what's getting paid in the end.
Bad 25 was in 2012, Off The Wall doku was 2016. Quincys lawsuit went from 2013 to 2017. So things should be good now.
But then I read this article again... so yes, going by the quotes from both sides, it doesn't sound too good, in terms of them working together again. https://www.rollingstone.com/music/...ies-suit-with-michael-jacksons-estate-113207/
But then again you never know, it's just business after all.
AlwaysThere;4269363 said:mj_frenzy, you've said that "Adore You" was a lost song (it isn't), that Bruce Swedien didn't mix "Scream" (he did, in collaboration with Steve Hodge), that "Fall Again" wasn't finished because Prince got sick (only partially true), that "Shut Up and Dance" was at least partially recorded (it's not), and several other insufficient claims.
You have a tendency of sharing incorrect information, then lashing out at users who question you (as made evident by your post history). While I'm far from innocent in terms of temper, there's really no need for it and it only muddies the waters.
You're working entirely off implications, all of which are erroneous and contradict explicit statements given by individuals with first-hand knowledge (such as Forger stating before a crowd that one album's worth of finished music exists).
Michael claimed he was working vigorously on new music between 2006-9, even though we now know that very little usable material exists from this period.
Swedien also was not involved in the Hayvenhurst sessions; was absent for the bulk of the Invincible sessions, only being involved for a total of 3-4 months and almost exclusively mixing existing songs as opposed to recording new ones; couldn't identify "I'm So Blue" or "Abortion Papers" when prompted; and once claimed that only 1-2 outtakes existed per album. All due respect, but his expertise is limited.
Are you using the US Copyright Office as a source? Bear in mind that an overwhelming number of registered titles (e.g., "Gloucestershire," "Monster," "Jungle," "Adore You," "Bottom of My Heart," "Remember What I Told You," "Rocker," "H2O") lack usable vocals, so it is by no means a credible gauge of certain songs/albums.
Sisqó spoke in 2000 about a potential collaboration that (so far as we know) was unrealized, and Diddy revealed they worked on an unfinished song in 2001. That's it.
Not sure who these "people" you speak of are, since Brad Buxer, Michael Prince, Matt Forger, Damien Shields, Joe Vogel, and others -- all of whom have extensive personal experience of various eras' worth of material, including the Invincible sessions -- have stated that the vault is not nearly as full as people think.
The Estate has free reign over Michael's self-created material, but anything with additional writers and/or producers requires negotiation and legal consent from all contributors. That's why Steve Porcaro was able to keep "Chicago 1945" off Xscape, and why we have yet to hear a single will.i.am song.
Also, the Estate doesn't have everything. Plenty of people (including Korgnex) can confirm that certain things are in the hands of people unwilling to play ball with the current executors.
mj_frenzy;4269399 said:Tommy Mottola said at some point that the plans of the Estate and Sony about Michael Jackson’s posthumous releases are based on a long-term basis.
They aim actually to surpass the longevity of Elvis Presley’s posthumous releases.
He said that because he also knows about the existence of dozens and dozens of outtakes from each of Michael Jackson’s studio album.
Bruce Swedien did not mix the ‘Scream’ song (he was asked by a student if he mixed that song, at Full Sail University in Florida, and he gave a negative answer).
Also, Bruce Swedien said (on other occasions) that Michael Jackson used to record many songs for each album and then to choose the ones that would fit the album’s cohesion and drama (which means a lot of outtakes from each album).
According to fan magazines from the ‘Invincible’ era, Sisqó at one point (during the ‘Invincible’ sessions) talked about over 70 nearly completed songs for that album.
Puff Daddy, around that time, also talked about a large number of songs meant for the ‘Invincible’ album.
Rodney Jerkins also said that during those sessions they had sometimes to begin from scratch with new sets of new songs each time, abandoning many already recorded songs meant for that album.
It goes without saying that anything with additional writers and/or producers requires negotiation and legal consent from all contributors, but so far his Estate proved that can overcome (to a degree) such legal impediments when it comes to new posthumous releases.
AlwaysThere;4269407 said:Of course the Estate aims for longevity; they've admitted as much themselves.
Mottola has spoken about the vault on very few occasions, most of which took place immediately after Michael's death, and offered little more than standard obscurities (e.g., "There was always over-recording," "These are hidden gems") without ever commenting on the state of said material.
Even so, I'm keen to take the word of studio technicians who heard nearly everything, over a former label head who only heard what Michael wanted him to hear.
I know Jam and Lewis brought in their own
Once again, for emphasis: recording many songs =/= finishing many songs.
No one is questioning the certainty that Michael created an overabundance of material for each album. But the notion that this in any way implies finished recordings is absolutely erroneous, especially considering
According to fan magazines, Michael also recorded a cover of "Strawberry Fields Forever" in 1989, and recorded two songs ("Angel," "Do You Love Me") with Babyface in 1998. Not a single corroborating source has been able to verify any of these songs existing.
How would Sisqó be privy to such information? Did Michael tell him? Did he hear all seventy nearly-completed songs? Or did overzealous fans hear him mention a wealth of songs and exaggerate the living hell out of it?
Mind sharing your source?
Already recorded =/= vocally finished.
The Estate overcame several of these impediments because the respective collaborators were willing to sign off on their material being used. Had they been as successful with Steve Porcaro and will.i.am, we'd have their songs. But no business is willing to undergo unnecessary legal battles.
I am truly in awe of this argument.
Fact of the matter is, every single person with express knowledge of Michael's vault has confirmed that material is scarce. It doesn't matter what implications Bruce Swedien or Tommy Mottola or countless others made. You cannot convince me that Brad Buxer, Michael Prince, Matt Forger, Brad Sundberg, Damien Shields, and Epic executive Vice President Scott Sevior all stated that there are less than 30 songs remaining. You've also conveniently side-stepped nearly every point I made discrediting some of your points.
The fan community is already knee-deep in confusion over the vault, and misinformation such as yours is only worsening things.
Why would that be at this point?
Smooth72;4269324 said:Your getting a Broadway show, that’s it,enjoy if you can make the trip.
I want a new album or at least a bunch of new singles.
I'll take anything haha
Not saying Estate sucks and I fully understand why no releases and no big cool box sets like Prince fans get or tonnes of concerts Elvis fans get on that label but it would be nice just to have something release I guess.
A few things are still released as physical 45s & maxi singles. With the 45s it's usually underground artists and reissues of oldies hits. Or a 45 might be packaged with a box set like the Blu Ray version of Magical Mystery Tour. The 12" singles, it's club music like techno artists. A new release 45 costs on average $5 - $10, much more expensive than the ones in the past, but that's the case with vinyl albums too. But singles in general are digital downloads & streaming. All of the songs on an new album can hit the Hot 100 in Billboard, but the actual singles are the ones that last longer on the chart and generally the ones that has a music video. Singles are played on the radio, the album tracks aren't. Like the Old Town Road song by Lil' Nas X & Billy Ray Cyrus recently made a record by remaining #1 for 19 weeks on the Hot 100.Do singles even exist anymore?
IMWhizzle;4269287 said:Michael himself told in interview he recorded 100+ songs for every album. So I don’t believe the rumors that his vault is empty. Don’t know where this rumor came from. The BAD album alone was supposed to be a triple album. There is so much left, finished or unfinished. For invincible alone there is so much left in finished state that you can fill a whole album and release it.
It’s so obvious that the estate released songs which were leaked online before and then some. They have enough left. But they play the lazy annoying game.
Cprep20;4269743 said:I know this is a lot but I’m trying to speak it into existence. Can’t go wrong with some wishful thinking.