When do you think Michael and Lisa last spoke?

[micaro7]

See though, with Lisa i think she tried to much to tell the world, michael, her mom, but especially herself that she didn't care about Michael. She had probably actually convinced herself until the trials happened. When the trials happened it was obvious that Lisa did care but maybe was to proud to admit it? When i saw the LK interview they showed the clip of him walking in to court. Lisa's eyes were glued the whole time to the screen as she spoke to Lk. Even like this though Lisa said that nothing bad had ever happened between her kids and michael. She also cared enough to released a statement after her words had been twisted when ssaid "i saw things i couldn't do anything about" something along those lines. So in a way she didn't support him, but in another here you have this ex-wife that has been bashing about him and it is known that the relation ended badly, and even like that Lisa still defended michael in her own way by saying she never saw anything with kids. This says alot about a person (michael). It shows how good of a person he really is if someone who is "indifferent" about you can still come out an say something sort of good in your name. a disclaimer.

IMO, Lisa didn't support him in the sense of going to court etc, but neither did she not support him. Actually, sometimes i noticed she was worried, like in the LK interview when she said "it'll hurt anyone to see someone go through this". So maybe she wasnt completly supporting, but she was worrying

and i'm glad you like it Flyaway! =)

The media didn't twist her words.
She should not have made such an ambiguous statement during the time she did.
MJ was accused of child molestation, the media was in a feeding frenzy his ex-wife makes a statement saying she saw things she couldn't do anything about.... What are people supposed to think??
You'd have to be not too bright to think such a statement was not going to be blown up.

Also she had to clarify her statement,not because she cared so much about MJ but about herself. If she didn't the SB county police would have been knocking down her door so fast for a statement, her head would have been spinning. She nor her mama or lawyers wanted LMP to be dragged into that case.

 

[dori727]

^^^^ i have to disagree on this. Maybe she didn't want to be part of it, but then again I don't think anyone wanted to be part of it period. Anything you say can be taken the wrong way. And it was her mistake for saying what she said but she could have been asked about something else entirely and thats when she said "i saw things i couldn't do anything about" and the press only bolded those words to the public. Or isolated those words for everyone to see

 

[dearmichael1]

No!! After she said she saw things, it made headlines in America and it was reported that Sneddon was trying to contact her or they would call her as a witness. It was only then she clarified her statement , then complained she was being dragged into that mess. But guess what , no one asked her to open her trap. It was she who insinuated that she "saw things" She knew whet she was trying to do. She could have said NO COMMENT. Shoot Janet is Mike's brother, they're close and for years she REFUESED to talk about Mike in interviews. She couldn't have done the same? Please!

 

[SoS]

.......................

 

[mjjfan4ever]

I haven't read this thread ... just bored and opened this link and I don't ever talk about her and MJ because it just was what it was.

I do have to say that in all the times she's ever showed up to say anything remotely positive, my take-away from her overall, is that she ended up with zero integrity which cancelled it all out.

Everything awful that she did cancelled out anything positive. For her to sit there and endulge Diane Sawyer in saying, "Michael JACKSON"????? "Michael JACKSON"????? WHAT were you THINKING???"

That disgusts me so badly it could make me literally sick.

She held herself up as some kind of a PENNICLE of "womanly authority"

all that "explaining" and "justifying" she felt she had to do for Diane

DISGUSTING

Her "last words" in her blog after June 25th, she could have just kept all that to herself.

When her "Elvis daughter" VOICE MATTERED she wasn't giving it up. She needs to just be happy with her new "Michael" and shut up.

If Michael kept seeing her after they were divorced it was because she is one of the few people (he thought) he could trust in his limited ability to associate with anyone.

he was desperate ... all the time ...SADLY and she didn't help ONE BIT at the end of the day

I can't believe I even let myself post in here. (no offense thread starter, please)

Its just so upsetting. In most peoples' worse days when it comes to an EX, unless they raped your children, beat your head in every day or something along those lines ... there is NO REASON not to at least be a TRUE FRIEND whether your "arrangement" worked out with them or not.

Self centered narcissistic over-estimation of her own "importance". That's how she comes across to me.

Whenever the last time they talked was, I'm glad it was the last time.

*forces self to leave thread*

totally agree. thanks for putting into words my feelings.

I can't get the DS interview out of my head. Every time I think about it, I get so angry because I can see the interview in my mind as clear as day as if it happened yesterday.

I am pissed about that interview and others. Imagine what Michael felt, since he really did love her. HURT!

MICHAEL JACKSON??? MICHAEL JACKSON????

Whatever. ** Forcing myself to leave this thread as well**

 

[dori727]

I haven't read this thread ... just bored and opened this link and I don't ever talk about her and MJ because it just was what it was.

I do have to say that in all the times she's ever showed up to say anything remotely positive, my take-away from her overall, is that she ended up with zero integrity which cancelled it all out. In fact the only "positive" thing I ever heard her say was always REMOTELY positive and never clearly so.
Everything awful that she did cancelled out anything positive. For her to sit there and endulge Diane Sawyer in saying, "Michael JACKSON"????? "Michael JACKSON"????? WHAT were you THINKING???"

That disgusts me so badly it could make me literally sick.

She held herself up as some kind of a PENNICLE of "womanly authority"

all that "explaining" and "justifying" she felt she had to do for Diane

DISGUSTING

Her "last words" in her blog after June 25th, she could have just kept all that to herself.

When her "Elvis daughter" VOICE MATTERED she wasn't giving it up. She needs to just be happy with her new "Michael" and shut up.

If Michael kept seeing her after they were divorced it was because she is one of the few people (he thought) he could trust in his limited ability to associate with anyone.

he was desperate ... all the time ...SADLY and she didn't help ONE BIT at the end of the day

I can't believe I even let myself post in here. (no offense thread starter, please)

Its just so upsetting. In most peoples' worse days when it comes to an EX, unless they raped your children, beat your head in every day or something along those lines ... there is NO REASON not to at least be a TRUE FRIEND whether your "arrangement" worked out with them or not.

Self centered narcissistic over-estimation of her own "importance". That's how she comes across to me.

Whenever the last time they talked was, I'm glad that at least it was the last time.

*forces self to leave thread*

*returns to thread to add one more thing*

Don't get me wrong, I realize we all have weaknesses but make no mistake about it,

everytime Lisa Marie ever showed up for Michael Jackson after their marraige, she showed up WEAK and VERY WEAK.

That's all I'm saying. Is it the only unforgivable sin?

Of course not. But I can't NOT see it for what it is. Pure weakness. No strength or integrity what-so-ever. Poor thing. Its really just sad at the end of the day. Kind of pathetic and very sad for Michael. As if he didn't have enough problems. He had to deal with having an EX psuedo "wife" to help obscure his image even more.

Oh, I forgot to add, yes they looked real cute together. What's that worth? Its worth sticking the picture up on the wall and looking at it. Good for all the "LMP/MJ LOVER" fans who that means a whole lot to. I'm glad they're happy (and I mean that in the nicest way, as much as it matters what I think lol)

*promises self not to return to topic*

totally agree. thanks for putting into words my feelings.

I can't get the DS interview out of my head. Every time I think about it, I get so angry because I can see the interview in my mind as clear as day as if it happened yesterday.

I am pissed about that interview and others. Imagine what Michael felt, since he really did love her. HURT!

MICHAEL JACKSON??? MICHAEL JACKSON????

Whatever. ** Forcing myself to leave this thread as well**

Yes, its true alot of the things you guys have said here. But also remember that Mike is no angel and that Lisa was left very hurt when a few months after the divorce he got another women pregnant. She herself in the DS interview said that after that she pretty much needed to be "mopped of the floor" because sincerely it really had affected her. Who ever posted the DS interview online only posted that part and failed to post the rest of the interview. And up until 2003 everything was fine between Lisa and Michael. After the divorce they were still friends, he even called her after her divorce to nic cage, shoot! even nic knew that Lisa was still tied up with Michael. They re-dated, she had visited ALL his kids, traveled together, etc. It wasn't until 2003 that Lisa started bashing and went on a rampage in interviews when talking about michael. Something happened in 2003 that no one knows about that led to lisa lashing out. If you read the thread you will see that we have speculated that the incident in 2003 could have been caused by the fact that Michael ditched Lisa at neverland after she drove 3 hours to get there. But also Lisa hurt michael when in 2007 she decided to move on, get married, and have twins. Which is what we have also speculated resulted in their last conversation that ended on wrong terms.

What i'm really trying to say is that this really didn't work out because of both Lisa and michael It wasn't just Lisa's fault, and it wasn't just Michaels fault. BOTH were wrong and they both did hurt each other immensely. It was a constant back and forth in regards to one hurting the other. It was BOTH their faults.

and yea, Lisa shouldn't have lashed out like that, but Lisa hadn't really been much in the public eye prior to her marriage to michael and maybe didn't know how to handle the media as well as Michael does. But never once did she deny that their marriage wasn't real. She felt used which is why in interviews she said things like "oh, from my part it was real, idk what he had in mind".

 

[dearmichael1]

Yes, its true alot of the things you guys have said here. But also remember that Mike is no angel and that Lisa was left very hurt when a few months after the divorce he got another women pregnant. She herself in the DS interview said that after that she pretty much needed to be "mopped of the floor" because sincerely it really had affected her. Who ever posted the DS interview online only posted that part and failed to post the rest of the interview. And up until 2003 everything was fine between Lisa and Michael. After the divorce they were still friends, he even called her after her divorce to nic cage, shoot! even nic knew that Lisa was still tied up with Michael. They re-dated, she had visited ALL his kids, traveled together, etc. It wasn't until 2003 that Lisa started bashing and went on a rampage in interviews when talking about michael. Something happened in 2003 that no one knows about that led to lisa lashing out. If you read the thread you will see that we have speculated that the incident in 2003 could have been caused by the fact that Michael ditched Lisa at neverland after she drove 3 hours to get there. But also Lisa hurt michael when in 2007 she decided to move on, get married, and have twins. Which is what we have also speculated resulted in their last conversation that ended on wrong terms.

What i'm really trying to say is that this really didn't work out because of both Lisa and michael It wasn't just Lisa's fault, and it wasn't just Michaels fault. BOTH were wrong and they both did hurt each other immensely. It was a constant back and forth in regards to one hurting the other. It was BOTH their faults.

and yea, Lisa shouldn't have lashed out like that, but Lisa hadn't really been much in the public eye prior to her marriage to michael and maybe didn't know how to handle the media as well as Michael does. But never once did she deny that their marriage wasn't real. She felt used which is why in interviews she said things like "oh, from my part it was real, idk what he had in mind".

You keep saying Lisa was hurt. We know it was obvious, but Michael was hurt too. If she was so hurt y did she come back after the divorce. She obviously wasn't that hurt. What everyone is saying is that she didn't have to help the media in abusing him. It was from 2003 - 2008. It was relentless. It was embarrassing. It was uncalled for. He already had no peace . They already had no mercy on him and she just added more stress. Someone who was closer to him than anyone. Who knew him intimately. The Diane sawyer interview and the Oprah interview was painfull to watch and embarrassing and I'm not even Michael. Can u imaging the hurt and emabarrassment he must have felt. They made it sound like he wasn't human , he was a thing . they made her feel ashamed for marrying him and guess what? She DID NOT defend him. That was low. And it happened during the WORSE time of his life. He was on trial for his freedom. I cant imagaing what he must have felt.

And u keep saying he called her afer the Nic Cage divorce. She did also say he kept calling and calling her and she wouldn't take his call. After a while she did and he just wanted to see how she was doing.

 

[dori727]

I did say Lisa was hurt, but I also said MICHAEL was hurt too. I know what she did was wrong. She should had defended him in interviews. But she was hurt and felt USED. And i don't mean she was hurt after the divorce, it was obvious she wasnt that hurt cause they started dating again. I mean she was hurt AFTER 2003. What i'm saying is it that BOTH of them had fault here. And what ever happened between them happened after 2003 because prior to that Lisa hadn't said anything bad about Michael. Again, what i am not trying to defend Lisa, what i'm saying is that yes, Lisa did wrong but so did michael. Michael was just more private about it. Something big happened in 2003 that left them bitter towards each other. We don't know what really happened, and therefore are actually in no right to judge either Lisa nor michael.

And actually, it has been claimed MANY times and by different people that when Nic and Lisa broke up he told people around him that he wanted to get back with her. etc. And nic himself said that the relationship didn't work out between them because he "doesn't wear a single glove."

 

[CTU]

It's a big question to me and it really annoyed me to think that she really didn't support him during the trial. For me, it was his lfie and death.. he would had died if he had to go to jail. I really don't understand her... but it might be because of her album, someone might force her to stay out of it. As you know, it's her album but it doesn't mean she can trash her album for her ex=husband who she actually pissed off at that time.

The other idea was, something Michael did to her was really bad... and she really lost in anger at that time. Clearly she regrets it now, and she has to spend her life regretting this, I don't think any therapy would really make this go away. Anyway, I thank her for her mourning for Michael after he passed away, it's too late but I do believe that Micheal sees it from Heaven somehow. I hoped he still loved her to the last minute of his life... and feel terribly good at the moment that finally he knows the answer whether she really hated him or not.

I honestly don't think that Lisa would ever tell more about Michael, she hurt so bad and out of respect to Michael, she knew that Michael doesn't want her to tell. What they had is his private feeling which I think he always wish to keep his love life out of light. He treasure his love and happiness, and doesn't want to spoil it.

I know we don't have the answer, but I whatever any question that came to me doubting their love... I still end up thinking that Lisa was the love of his life. He might loved someone else after that.. moved on... like the rumor said that he had someone in his life. Definitely he didn't love/care/trust her enough to amend his will to include her. Why wouldn't he want that someone to take care of his children, why wouldn't he wanted to leave her money to make sure she's okay.. or at least having the same lifestyle they had together. He loves kids, why wouldn't he have more kids with her. Part of me still think that, he couldn't make himself trust anymore like he did with Lisa, and couldn't love like that again.

There is a thread in the Forum for 'Celebrities that support Michael' during the 2005 trial.

I compiled the list and was sad to see that Lisa Marie and Quincy Jones weren't on it at least not posted by other people.

I know that Lisa was bashing Michael during this time and sort of gave a weak defense for him. But in your opinion, with what she had said, was she supporting him or not?

I remember her saying to LK that she had never seen Michael act inappropriate with children or her children. But she couldn't say anything about his innocence or guilt because she has not been with Michael for years.

Was that a lame cop out or what? She knew Michael intimately, so she should know. But maybe I am not getting the whole picture of her comments and maybe I am just getting soundbites from the interview.

So did Lisa Marie defend/support Michael during the 2005 trial or not? Be it a weak or a strong statement.[/quote]

NO, anytime she was asked about him during this time around the release of her 2nd album she said he was a hot stove and she didn't want to answer any questions about him

 

[dori727]

It's a big question to me and it really annoyed me to think that she really didn't support him during the trial. For me, it was his lfie and death.. he would had died if he had to go to jail. I really don't understand her... but it might be because of her album, someone might force her to stay out of it. As you know, it's her album but it doesn't mean she can trash her album for her ex=husband who she actually pissed off at that time.

The other idea was, something Michael did to her was really bad... and she really lost in anger at that time. Clearly she regrets it now, and she has to spend her life regretting this, I don't think any therapy would really make this go away. Anyway, I thank her for her mourning for Michael after he passed away, it's too late but I do believe that Micheal sees it from Heaven somehow. I hoped he still loved her to the last minute of his life... and feel terribly good at the moment that finally he knows the answer whether she really hated him or not.

I honestly don't think that Lisa would ever tell more about Michael, she hurt so bad and out of respect to Michael, she knew that Michael doesn't want her to tell. What they had is his private feeling which I think he always wish to keep his love life out of light. He treasure his love and happiness, and doesn't want to spoil it.

I know we don't have the answer, but I whatever any question that came to me doubting their love... I still end up thinking that Lisa was the love of his life. He might loved someone else after that.. moved on... like the rumor said that he had someone in his life. Definitely he didn't love/care/trust her enough to amend his will to include her. Why wouldn't he want that someone to take care of his children, why wouldn't he wanted to leave her money to make sure she's okay.. or at least having the same lifestyle they had together. He loves kids, why wouldn't he have more kids with her. Part of me still think that, he couldn't make himself trust anymore like he did with Lisa, and couldn't love like that again.


COMPLETELY agree! CTU, u really know how to put words together =)
and yes, i also think Lisa was the love of his life and vice versa. =)

 

[micaro7]

It's a big question to me and it really annoyed me to think that she really didn't support him during the trial. For me, it was his lfie and death.. he would had died if he had to go to jail. I really don't understand her... but it might be because of her album, someone might force her to stay out of it. As you know, it's her album but it doesn't mean she can trash her album for her ex=husband who she actually pissed off at that time.

The other idea was, something Michael did to her was really bad... and she really lost in anger at that time. Clearly she regrets it now, and she has to spend her life regretting this, I don't think any therapy would really make this go away. Anyway, I thank her for her mourning for Michael after he passed away, it's too late but I do believe that Micheal sees it from Heaven somehow. I hoped he still loved her to the last minute of his life... and feel terribly good at the moment that finally he knows the answer whether she really hated him or not.

I honestly don't think that Lisa would ever tell more about Michael, she hurt so bad and out of respect to Michael, she knew that Michael doesn't want her to tell. What they had is his private feeling which I think he always wish to keep his love life out of light. He treasure his love and happiness, and doesn't want to spoil it.

I know we don't have the answer, but I whatever any question that came to me doubting their love... I still end up thinking that Lisa was the love of his life. He might loved someone else after that.. moved on... like the rumor said that he had someone in his life. Definitely he didn't love/care/trust her enough to amend his will to include her. Why wouldn't he want that someone to take care of his children, why wouldn't he wanted to leave her money to make sure she's okay.. or at least having the same lifestyle they had together. He loves kids, why wouldn't he have more kids with her. Part of me still think that, he couldn't make himself trust anymore like he did with Lisa, and couldn't love like that again.

I'm sorry but huh?? Out of respect for MJ that is excatly why she should say something about him but this time make is positive....
She help contribute to the mess and she needs to clean it up.

LIke I said I will respect her feelings that she probably is very devastated by MJs passing but she knew MJ was private and didn't want her telling things about their marriage when he was alive so I hope she doesn't use that as some sort of excuse for not telling the whole truth.

 

[missharley]

Okay, please don't shoot me.
Normally, I don't say much on here, but I feel I must speak my piece.
I know most, if not all, of us feel somewhat angry at LMP for not "defending" Michael during the toughest time of his life, but speaking as someone who fell in love with someone and tried to save them from themselves and failed miserably, I can empathize with her.
I can't even imagine the grief and guilt she must be feeling. It must be overwhelming. You find yourself lashing out and not even sure why, when an intense and passionate relationship falls apart. I believe they loved each other, intensely and passionately. That kind of intensity can be terrifying. You feel it on all levels. In order to take back some semblance of control, I imagine that's why she acted the way she did in 2005. If you recall what she said in that infamous Diane Sawyer interview...***ch...had to be said. I hate that woman.
LMP said " I had to mop myself up off the floor". Lashing out is sometimes a part of that. Not condoning it, just..there it is.
none of us really know what happened, I think it's our own devastation at Michael's loss is making us all feel this way.
Let's just all try to hold hands, band together, and remember Michael and love him for the amazing, beautiful, extraordinary person that he was.
Hugs all around,
Liz

 

[dori727]

It's a big question to me and it really annoyed me to think that she really didn't support him during the trial. For me, it was his lfie and death.. he would had died if he had to go to jail. I really don't understand her... but it might be because of her album, someone might force her to stay out of it. As you know, it's her album but it doesn't mean she can trash her album for her ex=husband who she actually pissed off at that time.

The other idea was, something Michael did to her was really bad... and she really lost in anger at that time. Clearly she regrets it now, and she has to spend her life regretting this, I don't think any therapy would really make this go away. Anyway, I thank her for her mourning for Michael after he passed away, it's too late but I do believe that Micheal sees it from Heaven somehow. I hoped he still loved her to the last minute of his life... and feel terribly good at the moment that finally he knows the answer whether she really hated him or not.

I honestly don't think that Lisa would ever tell more about Michael, she hurt so bad and out of respect to Michael, she knew that Michael doesn't want her to tell. What they had is his private feeling which I think he always wish to keep his love life out of light. He treasure his love and happiness, and doesn't want to spoil it.

I know we don't have the answer, but I whatever any question that came to me doubting their love... I still end up thinking that Lisa was the love of his life. He might loved someone else after that.. moved on... like the rumor said that he had someone in his life. Definitely he didn't love/care/trust her enough to amend his will to include her. Why wouldn't he want that someone to take care of his children, why wouldn't he wanted to leave her money to make sure she's okay.. or at least having the same lifestyle they had together. He loves kids, why wouldn't he have more kids with her. Part of me still think that, he couldn't make himself trust anymore like he did with Lisa, and couldn't love like that again.

I'm sorry but huh?? Out of respect for MJ that is excatly why she should say something about him but this time make is positive....
She help contribute to the mess and she needs to clean it up.

LIke I said I will respect her feelings that she probably is very devastated by MJs passing but she knew MJ was private and didn't want her telling things about their marriage when he was alive so I hope she doesn't use that as some sort of excuse for not telling the whole truth.

No, see I agree with CTU, if Lisa is going to speak about what they had she will most likely keep it very limited. She will probably say something like "it was very beautiful what we had, no one can replace that etc, " i don't think she will actually give details or anything. and judging by how devastated she is, its going to be a long while before Lisa actually talks IF she talks at all.

Okay, please don't shoot me.
Normally, I don't say much on here, but I feel I must speak my piece.
I know most, if not all, of us feel somewhat angry at LMP for not "defending" Michael during the toughest time of his life, but speaking as someone who fell in love with someone and tried to save them from themselves and failed miserably, I can empathize with her.
I can't even imagine the grief and guilt she must be feeling. It must be overwhelming. You find yourself lashing out and not even sure why, when an intense and passionate relationship falls apart. I believe they loved each other, intensely and passionately. That kind of intensity can be terrifying. You feel it on all levels. In order to take back some semblance of control, I imagine that's why she acted the way she did in 2005. If you recall what she said in that infamous Diane Sawyer interview...***ch...had to be said. I hate that woman.
LMP said " I had to mop myself up off the floor". Lashing out is sometimes a part of that. Not condoning it, just..there it is.
none of us really know what happened, I think it's our own devastation at Michael's loss is making us all feel this way.
Let's just all try to hold hands, band together, and remember Michael and love him for the amazing, beautiful, extraordinary person that he was.
Hugs all around,
Liz

And yes, i agree. i feel sympathy towards her too because well, i have also lashed out before when a relationship hasn't work. and hugs back =)

 

[elmari]

I am not even going to try to understand Michael's stand on his relationship with LM post-divorce because we really know very little from his side. But since LM has been a bit more public about their relationship, we can piece together what she was going through.

My theory of Lisa's bitterness and anger starting around 2003 is that she puts blame on Michael for her three failed marriages. But I think she also puts more blame on herself for being so in love with Michael and wanting him to be part of her life.

1) Marriage 1: She was already unhappy in her first marriage and Michael was her shoulder to cry on. She fell in love with Michael while still married to Danny and subsequently divorced him to marry Michael.

2) Marriage 2: Well, we all know what happened there.

3) Marriage 3: In hindsight, I don't think Lisa was still over Michael. She dated Nic on and off for two years and spontaneously married him. Their marriage lasted 2-3 months. She goes on to say that she and Nic never should have gotten married in the first place.

Rumor has it that she may have still been in contact with Mike throughout her time with Nic and that Nic has alluded that the marriage failed because Lisa was not over Michael yet.

We have since found out that Michael called her after her divorce to Nic and Lisa called him after the Bashir fiasco.

Rumor has it also that Michael had invited Lisa to Neverland sometime in 2003, but failed to keep the appointment. After that, we have Lisa starting to speak negatively about Michael publicly.

The thing that strikes me is that from 1996-2002 (6 years) we do not hear Lisa speak negatively about Michael. She's pretty much quiet about Michael.

So I think Lisa got fed up trying to figure out Michael and what he wants with her and just completely cut ties with him. Apparently, she had tried to do that in 1999 (as we know from her comments) but was found out to still be in contact with him somewhat (and we do not know in what way- friend, more than friend, acquaintance).

I am very disappointed in Lisa for not defending Michael more strongly during the trial. I think she was really trying to hate him or rather become indifferent to him during those years. She did not want to care anymore and wanted to have minimal connection to him.

But I do not think that she ever stopped loving him, deep down. She just suppressed it and tried to kill it. She may have thought she had succeeded until he died.

I can tell that Michael had a huge impact on her life, both positive and negative. She never denied that their marriage was not a real one, nor that she loved him (or was in love with him). While she lashed out on her feelings, pain, and anger, Michael kept his to himself because he accepted things the way they were.

I think the reason that I like to believe in Lisa and Michael is because I really wanted Michael to have that special relationship with a woman he loved that he always wanted. For a short time, he had a beautiful and unsullied relationship with her. . . where it was just only about them and that they loved each other and wanted to make each other happy. She gave that to him and we all know how difficult it was for Michael to engage in romantic relationships. Like Lisa said in her blog, when Michael would do things for good, it was the BEST. I do think he tried to do the best he could in his marriage to LM.

Anyways, they really were a beautiful couple when they were together and it was sooooo nice seeing that smile on Michael's face and in his eyes when he was around her and vice versa.

 

[MrsMJ2007]

I saw her with that snake Diane Sawyer who was making fun of her for being with Michael.
I SO dislike Diane Sawyer. I thought Lisa Marie could have been more supportive of Michael in this interview. Yeah, she sort of defends him, but not really.


I have to agree with you on this one. Lisa Marie was not as supportive of MJ. She really did put him down not only in this interview, but in Rolling Stone, Howard Stern, Oprah, and most recently Marie Claire. It's okay that they had differences as to why they broke up. But she weighed in on the bashing just as much as everyone else did. When she started bashing him is when I stopped liking her at all. Michael did not deserve the way she treated him. If she truly had understood the "real" Michael she would have been there for him more often whether the media or the public liked it or not. Do I think she was the best choice for him? Not necessarily. I think he could have used someone far outside the confines of Hollywood. Someone who was firmly planted in the real world and not the fantasy world of Hollywood. Michael needed that.
I do believe Lisa feels guilty about the way she treated him the last 10 years of his life. He did not deserve that. Now she can never tell him "I'm Sorry".

 

[micaro7]

I am not even going to try to understand Michael's stand on his relationship with LM post-divorce because we really know very little from his side. But since LM has been a bit more public about their relationship, we can piece together what she was going through.

My theory of Lisa's bitterness and anger starting around 2003 is that she puts blame on Michael for her three failed marriages. But I think she also puts more blame on herself for being so in love with Michael and wanting him to be part of her life.

1) Marriage 1: She was already unhappy in her first marriage and Michael was her shoulder to cry on. She fell in love with Michael while still married to Danny and subsequently divorced him to marry Michael.

2) Marriage 2: Well, we all know what happened there.

3) Marriage 3: In hindsight, I don't think Lisa was still over Michael. She dated Nic on and off for two years and spontaneously married him. Their marriage lasted 2-3 months. She goes on to say that she and Nic never should have gotten married in the first place.

Rumor has it that she may have still been in contact with Mike throughout her time with Nic and that Nic has alluded that the marriage failed because Lisa was not over Michael yet.

We have since found out that Michael called her after her divorce to Nic and Lisa called him after the Bashir fiasco.

Rumor has it also that Michael had invited Lisa to Neverland sometime in 2003, but failed to keep the appointment. After that, we have Lisa starting to speak negatively about Michael publicly.

The thing that strikes me is that from 1996-2002 (6 years) we do not hear Lisa speak negatively about Michael. She's pretty much quiet about Michael.

So I think Lisa got fed up trying to figure out Michael and what he wants with her and just completely cut ties with him. Apparently, she had tried to do that in 1999 (as we know from her comments) but was found out to still be in contact with him somewhat (and we do not know in what way- friend, more than friend, acquaintance).

I am very disappointed in Lisa for not defending Michael more strongly during the trial. I think she was really trying to hate him or rather become indifferent to him during those years. She did not want to care anymore and wanted to have minimal connection to him.

But I do not think that she ever stopped loving him, deep down. She just suppressed it and tried to kill it. She may have thought she had succeeded until he died.

I can tell that Michael had a huge impact on her life, both positive and negative. She never denied that their marriage was not a real one, nor that she loved him (or was in love with him). While she lashed out on her feelings, pain, and anger, Michael kept his to himself because he accepted things the way they were.

I think the reason that I like to believe in Lisa and Michael is because I really wanted Michael to have that special relationship with a woman he loved that he always wanted. For a short time, he had a beautiful and unsullied relationship with her. . . where it was just only about them and that they loved each other and wanted to make each other happy. She gave that to him and we all know how difficult it was for Michael to engage in romantic relationships. Like Lisa said in her blog, when Michael would do things for good, it was the BEST. I do think he tried to do the best he could in his marriage to LM.

Anyways, they really were a beautiful couple when they were together and it was sooooo nice seeing that smile on Michael's face and in his eyes when he was around her and vice versa.

Does anyone have the actual quote from Nic Cage in a legtimate magazine and not a tabloid?
To try to analyze her relationship with Nic Cage in relation to Michael doesn't make since. She has also said her and MJ shouldn't have gotten married so...... I don't people should be questioning her relationships with other men....

Same thing with the rumored Neverland visit..
To take possibly unture situations and try to make a case for LMP's behaviour is sort of pushing it.
The LMP interveiws post marriage are all on the record. There's no way to spin that.
On the way hand, many of you say LMP is a straight-shooter, ballsy women, but on the other hand many of you refuse to believe what she actually said.
She says what she feels in the interviews. She spoke about why she broke her silence and started talking about him the interveiws.
I just can't understand why some people try to

 

[HIStory]

Here is an article on Lisa's and Nic's marriage ending because supposedly she was still into Michael: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-150606/Did-The-King-destroy-Lisa-Maries-marriage.html

 

[missharley]

No, see I agree with CTU, if Lisa is going to speak about what they had she will most likely keep it very limited. She will probably say something like "it was very beautiful what we had, no one can replace that etc, " i don't think she will actually give details or anything. and judging by how devastated she is, its going to be a long while before Lisa actually talks IF she talks at all.



And yes, i agree. i feel sympathy towards her too because well, i have also lashed out before when a relationship hasn't work. and hugs back =)

Hee. I feel loved!!!
Liz

 

[elmari]

Here is an article on Lisa's and Nic's marriage ending because supposedly she was still into Michael: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-150606/Did-The-King-destroy-Lisa-Maries-marriage.html

That was an interesting article, respect77. Th.ank you for posting it

But to me it sounded like I was reading a novel or something because it seemed a bit too detailed. Then noticed at the bottom it was by Taraborelli. . . LOL!

With the way that Nic was described, it sounds like he and Michael would have gotten along because both loved to read books, have deep conversations, and liked educational programming.

The article described Lisa rather negatively- spoiled, impulsive, annoying, hot tempered (at least around Nic).

The part about Michael didn't seem like it could be too far from the truth though. That they would have arguments about Michael because she would defend his actions to Nic and be very protective of Mike. But the part about her speaking to him all the time and visiting Neverland once a month is probably a bit farfetched since she was trying to move on from him. But who knows? If LM and Mike were still friends at that time, then that is certainly possible.

BTW, whatever I write in my posts a just my OPINIONS and THEORIES. I try to look a the bigger picture of the whole thing and put my thoughts together from that, instead of just looking at what happened in certain time periods. I also look at context, situation and environment. Things aren't always what they appear to be.

I am also a romantic and I like love stories, both tragic and with happy endings.

 

[dori727]

Ok. so I read the article and everything points to that michael was PERFECT for Lisa. I mean, when they said she was a kid and didn't like it when nic tried to make her grow up, that Nic wanted her to dress a certain way etc. I dont think Michael ever told Lisa what to do. He just let Lisa be Lisa and i think thats what she loved about him, that he accepted her for her as much as she accepted him for him. Also the cursing and the speaking her mind and being totally honest, Michael LOVED that, as where Nic didn't like it too much. Lol and her choice of books, romance, mystery, who is more mysterious than michael? lol And apparently she was always protective of Michael even AFTER their divorce. I do think she loved Nic but i don't think she was IN LOVE with him. Also, lol idk if this is true, and please mods if what i'm about to say can get be kicked out let me know ASAP so i can delete it...ok, so rumor has it that Michael and Lisa were VERY intimate and that they did it 5 times a week. With nic, according to the article it was like 4 times throughout their marriage. so.....yea lol.

and also, Lisa and nic never fully lived together. And with Michael sort of did by staying at her house for 6 months at a time etc. She had no problem with him moving in with her.

and i agree with Elmari in that everything here is my opinion. Oh, and i LOVE love stories =)

also, there is a possibility that Lisa and Michael were still talking. She was with Nic around 2002, and Michael said himself she had visited all the kids and that includes blanket who was born in 2002. So there is a possibility.

 

[HIStory]

Is it true that Taraborelli is working on a Lisa Marie Presley biography? Should be interesting. I know she is not a star own her own right but she was connected to two of the greatest entertainers of showbusiness and her relationship to them, especially to Michael, was pretty complex psychologically, so I can see why Randy would find her an interesting subject to write a book about.

 

[dori727]

I think Taraborrelli is just as intrigued by their marriage and relationship like the rest of the world is. lol In his magic, madness book he really put alot into the Lisa and michael marriage. That, or he knows that that is a topic that all of mike's fans want to hear about.

 

[HIStory]

I think Lisa and Michael shared a lot more than what first meets the eye. The media couldn't see that and that's why they found their marriage odd.

Lisa was just as hurt from her childhood and showbusiness as Michael - only for different reasons. The wild teenage years, the rebellion against her mother show that. She is playing tough on the surface but she is insecure and hurting inside - like Michael. Her other husbands never experienced these things, that's why I think she didn't find such an emotional bond with them as with Michael.

There's a funny story she told in the Rolling Stone interview that I had a laugh at:

It is during dessert that she mentions her crush on Darth Vader. "I was obsessed with him," she says. This was only about five years ago, when her son got into Star Wars. Instead of hogging his toys, she got her own. She had a Darth Vader watch and a small Vader on her office desk that, upon the press of a button, would gesticulate with his light saber and tell her, "Impressive, most impressive -- but you're not a Jedi yet." She also dressed up as Vader one Halloween. When I quiz her in further detail about all this, the conversation takes several strange turns.

He didn't even have a proper mouth!

"Well, I wasn't thinking that deep into it. That whole black dark thing I liked: the cape, the voice, the breathing, the whole thing."

The voice? The breathing? You imagined the two of you running away together?

"God, I wish. I just wished he was real."

Have you now moved away from the dark side?

"No. Never. God, I hope not." She considers a moment: "You know, I'm sure it's connected in some weird way to the grandness and the bigness of an earlier loss in my life. Some sort of representation of this grand, powerful . . . not dark and evil . . . but this thing in my life that went away. And maybe it's some twisted fucking way to try and replace that." She shrugs. "If you want to get down to the psychology of it."

What is the grand, powerful thing? Your father?

"Yeah."

So do you think Darth Vader is? . . .

"No. I'm talking about somebody in my eyes that was, to me, so overwhelmingly grand and powerful -- and sometimes dark, depending on mood. And there was that for the first nine years of my life. Maybe I have been in search of something like that. It's very hard to compete with that in my mind. That's what he was to me as a child -- this huge, electrifyingly powerful, grand, beautiful presence. It's like a lost duckling who walks around looking for that; I'm not really doing that, but I guess in some weird kind of psychological bullshit, that could be what's going on."

Though it's funny, I think it's also kind of telling about her psyché. It may sound strange but through this I could see why Lisa and Michael had a bond. She was definitely not your average girl and I think Michael liked that.

 

[TurtleDove]

I am not even going to try to understand Michael's stand on his relationship with LM post-divorce because we really know very little from his side. But since LM has been a bit more public about their relationship, we can piece together what she was going through.

My theory of Lisa's bitterness and anger starting around 2003 is that she puts blame on Michael for her three failed marriages. But I think she also puts more blame on herself for being so in love with Michael and wanting him to be part of her life.

1) Marriage 1: She was already unhappy in her first marriage and Michael was her shoulder to cry on. She fell in love with Michael while still married to Danny and subsequently divorced him to marry Michael.

2) Marriage 2: Well, we all know what happened there.

3) Marriage 3: In hindsight, I don't think Lisa was still over Michael. She dated Nic on and off for two years and spontaneously married him. Their marriage lasted 2-3 months. She goes on to say that she and Nic never should have gotten married in the first place.

Rumor has it that she may have still been in contact with Mike throughout her time with Nic and that Nic has alluded that the marriage failed because Lisa was not over Michael yet.

We have since found out that Michael called her after her divorce to Nic and Lisa called him after the Bashir fiasco.

Rumor has it also that Michael had invited Lisa to Neverland sometime in 2003, but failed to keep the appointment. After that, we have Lisa starting to speak negatively about Michael publicly.

The thing that strikes me is that from 1996-2002 (6 years) we do not hear Lisa speak negatively about Michael. She's pretty much quiet about Michael.

So I think Lisa got fed up trying to figure out Michael and what he wants with her and just completely cut ties with him. Apparently, she had tried to do that in 1999 (as we know from her comments) but was found out to still be in contact with him somewhat (and we do not know in what way- friend, more than friend, acquaintance).

I am very disappointed in Lisa for not defending Michael more strongly during the trial. I think she was really trying to hate him or rather become indifferent to him during those years. She did not want to care anymore and wanted to have minimal connection to him.

But I do not think that she ever stopped loving him, deep down. She just suppressed it and tried to kill it. She may have thought she had succeeded until he died.

I can tell that Michael had a huge impact on her life, both positive and negative. She never denied that their marriage was not a real one, nor that she loved him (or was in love with him). While she lashed out on her feelings, pain, and anger, Michael kept his to himself because he accepted things the way they were.

I think the reason that I like to believe in Lisa and Michael is because I really wanted Michael to have that special relationship with a woman he loved that he always wanted. For a short time, he had a beautiful and unsullied relationship with her. . . where it was just only about them and that they loved each other and wanted to make each other happy. She gave that to him and we all know how difficult it was for Michael to engage in romantic relationships. Like Lisa said in her blog, when Michael would do things for good, it was the BEST. I do think he tried to do the best he could in his marriage to LM.

Anyways, they really were a beautiful couple when they were together and it was sooooo nice seeing that smile on Michael's face and in his eyes when he was around her and vice versa.

Nice post. I agree with much of what you wrote. Only thing I don't is that Lisa blames MJ for all her failed marriages. She freely admits that she and Nic should have not gotten married and has talked about Danny's jealously over the Presley name getting in the way of the marriage.

I do think she has a thing with MJ though about the relationship ending because of him not getting clean or doing what she hoped he do so they could be together.

There is a line in Lisa's song, Sinking In, that says something about her jumping from one to another 10 years later while you're still worrying your mother and I kinda always thought that was directed at Michael. Like to say that she wouldn't be going from man to man b/c she would be with him if he wasn't on drugs. And obviously he wouldn't be worrying Mama Jackson if he was clean.

Here's the actual lyric

And now look whats come of us here ten years later.
I jump from one to the other, youre still worrying your mother.

Is it true that Taraborelli is working on a Lisa Marie Presley biography? Should be interesting. I know she is not a star own her own right but she was connected to two of the greatest entertainers of showbusiness and her relationship to them, especially to Michael, was pretty complex psychologically, so I can see why Randy would find her an interesting subject to write a book about.

It was true. He scrapped it in favor of working on a book about Marilyn Monroe. That book was just released a month or so ago. The book was going to be called Dark Lady and JRT had begun reseraching it. He decided to do it after interviewing Lisa a couple of times. Maybe he'll go back to it?? After the divorce he did an interview with Hard Copy about it but I think it would have been BS. He said that Lisa and Janet hated each other and that clearly isn't true. Janet has stated many times that she was crazy about Lisa.

 

[TurtleDove]

Oh, and Karen posted on her FB today that she and Lisa have been talking since the funeral and are helping each other heal after Michael's death. She said Lisa was in the UK working on her next CD and that MJ loved her very much and always did. So obviously, they have been able to put the past behind them. That's good for them. I'm sure MJ would be happy.

 

[elmari]

Oh, and Karen posted on her FB today that she and Lisa have been talking since the funeral and are helping each other heal after Michael's death. She said Lisa was in the UK working on her next CD and that MJ loved her very much and always did. So obviously, they have been able to put the past behind them. That's good for them. I'm sure MJ would be happy.

KF told Lisa that Michael 'loved her very much and always did' or is she telling us that?

Hmm. . . totally off topic here and I'll edit my post if this is something we should not discuss.

But does anyone here ever think that Karen could have been in love with Michael at one point or another?

Man, I know I'd definitely fall in love with him if I was thisclose to him for many, many years putting make-up on him. LOL!

 

[TurtleDove]

KF told Lisa that Michael 'loved her very much and always did' or is she telling us that?

Hmm. . . totally off topic here and I'll edit my post if this is something we should not discuss.

But does anyone here ever think that Karen could have been in love with Michael at one point or another?

Man, I know I'd definitely fall in love with him if I was thisclose to him for many, many years putting make-up on him. LOL!

Don't know if she "told" Lisa that but she said that MJ loved Lisa very much and always did. The way it read to me was that it was more of a general statement. And not so much that Karen told Lisa that. Karen didn't say anything that she and Lisa talked about in private.

In love with MJ? Didn't Mike introduce her to one of her husbands? Not sure if it's her current one but I thought he did. Maybe to the one that his the father of her child? And the one she was married to when MJ and LM were married?

It's hard to say and like you said it's off topic so I think maybe it's best to leave it alone. I think they just had a close platonic relationship.

 

[dori727]

^^^^^ good point. I have always thought Karen has had a thing for Michael and that can explain why she didn't like Lisa. Also, like you have said, who is Karen telling this too? Is she reassuring Lisa because she never got to say good bye and her guilt? or is she telling us that just to answer some questions?

 

[dori727]

hey, and does anyone know exactly what Karen said about Lisa? i tried looking for it but its impossible!

 

[elmari]

Don't know if she "told" Lisa that but she said that MJ loved Lisa very much and always did. The way it read to me was that it was more of a general statement. And not so much that Karen told Lisa that. Karen didn't say anything that she and Lisa talked about in private.

In love with MJ? Didn't Mike introduce her to one of her husbands? Not sure if it's her current one but I thought he did. Maybe to the one that his the father of her child? And the one she was married to when MJ and LM were married?

It's hard to say and like you said it's off topic so I think maybe it's best to leave it alone. I think they just had a close platonic relationship.

Thanks turtledove.

Yah, I'm glad that Lisa and Karen have gotten over their past problems with each other. I think Michael's passing also brought back together Janet and Tina Landon.