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why do ppl say INVINCIBLE was a low point in micheal's career??

I don't care what anyone says, Invincible was a better album than given credit for. Maybe it wasn't his best, but it's a heck of a lot better than most albums these days. Invincible had some good songs like "You Rock My World", "Heartbreaker", Unbreakable", "Whatever Happens" and some wonderful ballads like "Don't Walk Away", "Butterflies", "Heaven Can Wait", "Break of Dawn", and "You Are My Life". Seriously, the ballads on this album are some of MJ's greatest and sexiest ever! He sounds so amazing in songs like "Butterflies" and "Break of Dawn" especially. Those two songs rank among my fave MJ songs ever.
 
I love the song Speechless... Who is he singing this to? Or who is it about? Or should this be in Groove Theory?
 
Invincible is a very "AOW!" album to me :D I love Unbreakable, Heart Breaker, Invincible, Privacy, Whatever Happens, You Rock My World, PRIVACY (GREATEST SONG EVER~!!! F@CK U MEDIA!!!), Heaven Can Wait, Butterflies - haha looks like I'm listing the whole album :) I'm glad to say that Invincible is a really, really bad album ;)
 
dancemasterman said:
mJ put a lot of work into invincible. it cost 30 million to make. He doesn't just put out crap.
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I didn't say it's "crap". but comparing to his previous, it's not an album, that I expected from him, after being much better. Whatever. But I prefer his previous stuff, for number of reasons. And the money amount, doesn't justify it for me.
 
I did a little research on Speechless since I asked the question earlier.
I found an online audio chat that MJ did in 2001 after Invincible came out. I read this:

"I'm so pleased with the new album but I was particularly touched by Speechless. What was your inspiration for this song?"
Michael: Speechless was inspired to me by, um, I spend a lot of time in the forest. I like to go into the forest and I like to climb trees. My favorite thing is to climb trees, go all the way up to the top of a tree and I look down on the branches. Whenever I do that it inspires me for music. There are these two sweet little kids, a girl and a boy, and they're so innocent; they're the quintessential form of innocence, and just being in their presence I felt completely speechless, 'cause I felt I was looking in the face of God whenever I saw them. They inspired me to write Speechless.

I feel better about this now. That boy and girl must be Prince I and Paris. I have been crying when I hear this song. Now I must smile.

http://www.allmichaeljackson.com/interviews/onlineaudiochat.html
 
I wish the album was more musical. I loved "Heaven Can Wait", "Break of Dawn", "Butterflies" and the other ballads. "Speechless has really grown on me. Back in 2002, I thought it was way too soppy. But now I love it...Michael's vocals on Speechless are beautiful. I listened to it back-to-back with something from the Jacksons era and man...Michael's voice hadn't changed.
And for the record, I loved "The Lost Children" from the start.

"You Rock My World" was always cool with everyone.
I didn't care much for songs like "Privacy", "Threatened", etc. It was way too mechanical-sounding for me. I wanted to hear Michael SING. I didn't want him to have to compete with those crazy loud beats all over the song. Anyway, I'll give those songs another listen tonight.
 
I LOVE invincible - I wish the general public knew of it. It must have sounded modern at the time, because it sounds so fresh now. Love - You Are My Life, Speechless, Butterflies, 2000 Watts, Heaven Can Wait, You Rock My World, Unbreakable..
 
JoeyMJFan said:
If fans were sheep about what the media said, then Michael would have no fans, since the media has said some awful things about Michael for years.

As for ''all of a sudden fans'' and speculating about their whereabouts a few weeks ago, one could wonder the same thing about the large number of fans here w/ June and July 09 registration dates including yourself. I don't see the point in questioning someone's 'fandom'; hey if someone wants to start liking Michael because they liked the MTV video marathon, great. The more fans the better. You do realize that is how a legacy continues as older generations of fans die.

Maybe some fans just didn't love the album. To me anyway a few of the tracks sounded generic/mediocre (unbreakable, Invincible, Break of Dawn, YRMW, butterflies), some I just plain didn't like (all the lost children, whatever happens, 2000 watts), and some I like a lot (Cry, Privacy, Threatened, Speechless). I don't hate the album and actually like listening to it, but among his albums I would agree w/ calling it his weakest. As for HIStory in the mix, it's just that, a remix album w/ five new tracks, so I'd hardly compare that effort to an album of all new material.

I'm probably a sheep w/ buying any new material that comes out, but that doesn't dictate what emotions the music will evoke when I hit play. Sorry if that offends.
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As for yourself u have a Dec 2008 registration hun and Im pretty sure this website was created way before that and you have the nerve to question ppl with June and July (including myself) about being "fake fans"! I came across this site recently and decided to register! I have alot of memeberships with other Michael sites but this one is new to me and probably to the newcomers also.

Invincible was not a "flop" but the album was genius and incredible! Michael gave us what he normally gives in his music! Emotion, feeling, creativity, and love! No it wasnt his best selling album or topped any of his other ones, but it still sold alot and will have in the future ,more, becuz of his death!
 
Yes I am a new member and this post is my first! This thread is full of very different opinons and I am going to touch on each and everyone of them.

Invincible, to me, was a great album! It showed Michael as a true singer! No m not saying he wasnt a great singer because he was! what Im saying is that the album showed Michael vocals like never before! We are used to hearing Michael doing fast type music and yelling (sounding awesome). After Dangerous he calmed down and really wanted to talk about love and relationships! There are a variety of songs on the album! Slow and sexy, Fast and dancing, and Mad and tired of everything! This album showed us another side of Michael! A softer/sweeter side like when he was younger. Many fans didnt like this because they wanted the bass beating Michael!

The album was also not exploited like its supposed! All of his other albums were talked bout before the release getting fans ready! I really do think that if Michael us one more video or even two then The sales wouldve have went up like crazy! "You Rock My World" is a good song but the video wasnt classic Michael! Fans expected Michael to come out with a mind-blowing video like he has did in the past! But like I said before, he slowed everything down for us! The music, the video, etc. I personally loved the video but it wasnt one of his best.

With Invincible selling 10 million copies was huge! Nt for Michael but in music history! No other artist today can say that they sold 10 million copies! Not Beyonce', Usher, or even Ms. Turner!! Although this album is not one of his best-sellers, its worth a listen. Yea there were television and radio ppl talkin bout his release but not as much for him to sell big!
 
I have been rockin' Invincible over the last 2 days. my kids are loving it.
 
It's a very good album, and very underrated and sadly ignored. It has some really great songs on it. The three first songs, You Rock My World, Privacy and ballads like Speechless, Cry and Butterflies are just some examples. Michael was ahead of his time with this album. The beats and rhythms of the upbeat tracks are something that most successful RnB artists today can only dream of making.
 
im giving it my first real straight through listen and its a great album.

butterflies is beautiful
 
I think Invincible is a good album of its own accord. Unlike what I've been reading in this topic, the ballads are actually my favorite thing about the album. I have no idea how anyone could hate songs like "Speechless, Don't Walk Away, or You Are My Life". These songs are so gorgeous. From the music itself to Michael's voice and lyrics. The uptempo tracks are of course great too.

It wasn't a failure by any means but of course the media had to paint it that way just as they did with HIStory. Not until Michael Jackson's recent death did he start to get any real appreciation and acknowledgment of his amazing successes.
 
blarican09 said:
As for yourself u have a Dec 2008 registration hun and Im pretty sure this website was created way before that and you have the nerve to question ppl with June and July (including myself) about being "fake fans"! I came across this site recently and decided to register! I have alot of memeberships with other Michael sites but this one is new to me and probably to the newcomers also.

Invincible was not a "flop" but the album was genius and incredible! Michael gave us what he normally gives in his music! Emotion, feeling, creativity, and love! No it wasnt his best selling album or topped any of his other ones, but it still sold alot and will have in the future ,more, becuz of his death!
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You apparently cannot read well. The original poster had said that fans who dislike Invincible are "all of a sudden fans" who cannot think for themselves because they follow what the media says. I pointed out the irony of someone who "all of a sudden" has an opinion and registered within days of the media's heavy coverage. I then said "I don't see the point in questioning someone's fandom." Two different issues -- pointing out irony (I didn't think you'd be so slow-witted where I would have to literally explain it) and using that irony to illustrate the futility in questioning fandom. Further, I CLEARLY stated that second point -- I didn't think anyone could misinterpret the line "I don't see the point in questioning someone's fandom," but congratulations, you did it. . . . A bit sensitive, are we? I guess I struck a nerve.

Further, where do I use the words "fake fans" and "flop." DO NOT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH, "HUN." You're plagiarizing and committing character assassination.
 
All-of-a-sudden-fans suck, but lol @ using registration dates as an argument. I've been a fan for 18 of my 25 year old life, and registred here very recently because I desperated needed fellowship in these tragic times...
 
blarican09 said:
Yes I am a new member and this post is my first! This thread is full of very different opinons and I am going to touch on each and everyone of them.

Invincible, to me, was a great album! It showed Michael as a true singer! No m not saying he wasnt a great singer because he was! what Im saying is that the album showed Michael vocals like never before! We are used to hearing Michael doing fast type music and yelling (sounding awesome). After Dangerous he calmed down and really wanted to talk about love and relationships! There are a variety of songs on the album! Slow and sexy, Fast and dancing, and Mad and tired of everything! This album showed us another side of Michael! A softer/sweeter side like when he was younger. Many fans didnt like this because they wanted the bass beating Michael!

The album was also not exploited like its supposed! All of his other albums were talked bout before the release getting fans ready! I really do think that if Michael us one more video or even two then The sales wouldve have went up like crazy! "You Rock My World" is a good song but the video wasnt classic Michael! Fans expected Michael to come out with a mind-blowing video like he has did in the past! But like I said before, he slowed everything down for us! The music, the video, etc. I personally loved the video but it wasnt one of his best.

With Invincible selling 10 million copies was huge! Nt for Michael but in music history! No other artist today can say that they sold 10 million copies! Not Beyonce', Usher, or even Ms. Turner!! Although this album is not one of his best-sellers, its worth a listen. Yea there were television and radio ppl talkin bout his release but not as much for him to sell big!
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"After Dangerous he calmed down and really wanted to talk about love and relationships!"

WRONG. You've apparently never listened to HIStory or its companion remix album.

"The album was also not exploited like its supposed! All of his other albums were talked bout before the release getting fans ready!"

WRONG again. He did two highly publicized and televised Madison Square Garden concerts in conjunction with the album's release (aired as one concert special). The Invincible album cover appeared in Times Square and was promoted. Michael appeared at the Virgin Megastore and on TRL in NYC to promote the album. . . . Maybe the promotion did not continue once released, but it did receive some level of publicity initially. I will say it did have the terrible timing of having 9/11, which knocked most-all pop-culture news out of the public/headlines for a few months.

" No other artist today can say that they sold 10 million copies! Not Beyonce', Usher, . . . "

WRONG WRONG WRONG. Usher sold over 10 million copies of confessions. Beyonce sold over 12 million albums of Dangerously in Love.

Good for you, you like the album, but you fabricate facts. . . . I'm sure you will interpret my comment "you like the album" as an implication that I do not, but if you read my initial post, I said that I like it and listed some of the songs I enjoy -- I did say that it was my least favorite album though. Crucify me.
 
"Confessions" sold 12 million back a few years ago! No one could sell that amount today though, well it's very unlikely anyway. Albums are not selling like they used to. "Invincible" didn't sell the usual 25+ million MJ's albums usually sell, but it still did very well. He has NEVER had a major album of his flop. 10 million is not a flop. If it was anyone else, it would have been deemed a big success, only because it's MJ and he's held to these ridiculously high standards do people say it flopped. Critics panned it calling it his worst and saying it was a flop, therefore many believe it was a terrible album and that's just not the case. There are at least a few good tracks on there.

One thing I know about MJ is that I always have gotten my money's worth with his music. I have NEVER truly been dissapointed with any of his albums. "Butterflies" alone is worth buying that album for. Such a beautiful beautiful song that I adore so much. I listen to it everyday for hours sometimes. I love it so much. Anyhow, I know I'll always find at least a handful of songs on his albums that i'll love and "Invincible" was no exception. It had some of his best ballads ever. He hadn't been doing ballads and love songs like that in years. Some people don't like "Invincible" because that's when he tried to return to his r&b/urban roots and i'm guessing the people who hate "Invincible" the most are not r&b fans. That's what i've noticed because I know a lot of r&b fans who love "Invincible" but people who are more into the "King of Pop" persona are not as fond of that album. Either way, It was a much better album than given credit for. Like I said, some of his best love songs ever and his voice was incredible on this album. So smooth and his falsetto was outta this world on quite a few songs! I have grown very fond of "Invinvible" over the years.
 
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Confessions was released in 2004; Invincible was released in 2001. The poster in question said that no one could sell 10 million like Invincible, but Usher and Beyonce did it, and maybe other artists. I'm not saying that one is 'better' than the other, just saying. But I agree, the feat grows less likely with each passing year.

Cinnamon, I'm not sure if you're referring to me or the media, but I did not call Invincible a "flop." Selling millions of an album in the post-napster age is quite a feat, and now especially w/ itunes. I think the media, like you said, thinks "flop" if it doesn't sell 25 million, which is insane when you think about!

Music is subjective so I personally don't like measuring success in 'units sold' anyway. . . . You are correct, I am not a big fan of today's R&B, which is probably why a lot of the album went over my head. Insightful!
 
Invincible is the most deep Michael Jackson album!It's his views about the world he is living!About his sorrows and his joys! Window to his soul!
 
Invincible is a great album, only reason people do not consider it as big as his other albums is that it did not get much promotion and only had two singles and one video with MJ... Even History had 5 singles and 6 (7) videos... These days we see something similar with Madonna, no singles and no videos = lower sales....
 
I like Invincible, a lot, but I don't love it. It doesn't FEEL like Michael as much as the other ones (especially from Thriller to HIStory, Off the Wall feels a bit foreign as well). And that's what I look for in his music, not just good songs, but Michael's unique talent that shines like magic through everything he's created. The first time I listened to Invincible I thought that Michael probably hadn't been as big a part of the creative process as before. Even looking at the song credits, it's a long list of names behind every song, not just "Michael Jackson" (as is on Bad for example). So, even though it's a good album and Michael's vocals on it are amazing, it's not quite as magical. IMO
 
mike_is_the_best said:
is it because it wasnt filled with "moonwalker" type songs or something?
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Pretty much that, I'd guess. It's too long to keep anyone but the most committed fans interested and there are no real standout moments. It's fully understandable that a casual observer would consider it genuinely poor and wouldn't want to give it a second chance. I doubt Michael was keen to have anything from it in This Is It apart from the usual suspect of You Rock My World.

Every act has low points - The Beatles, Dylan, Prince, Madonna, Springsteen, Bowie all had them. Invincible was Michael's. It could have been a vehicle for any run of the mill R&B star. It just so happened to end up as one for the world's biggest star. As far as I can see, it was just an album for the sake of releasing an album, to keep things chugging along.
 
CatherineNZ said:
because the album is so ahead of its time that people didnt understand it. YET
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Im so happy someone realizes the same as me, lol, Michael was to advanced on himself with Invincible, I personally love the album, think its fantastic, people to this day are still not making music like Invincible.
 
Pez said:
i still think the album drags on for way to long, take off:
cry, lost children, don't walk away, privacy and speechless and you have a pretty good album :)
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lol at taking off don't walk away.
 
ivan_tasev said:
Invincible is the most deep Michael Jackson album!It's his views about the world he is living!About his sorrows and his joys! Window to his soul!
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i don't agree i think history is the most deep album. it takes you into his train of thought like no other album with songs like sim, yana, tdcau, childhood, scream and this time around.
 
I'm trying to understand why so many hate on "The Lost Children" - I think it's absolutely wonderful, almost on some "Heal The World" persona.

The first verse is absolutely perfect to me, one of his best verses ever IMO. - It's just such a perfect build up to the chorus.

And I love the percussions on this one, that snare or woodblock or whatever he's using - and stuff that you can hear in the left speaker in the second verse. Sounds almost like some playing cards he's slamming on his hand.
 
I think alot of ppl were excecpting ''invincible'' to be like '' dangerous era'', but thing was ''dangerous'' ''bad'' etc....had been done and its hard to recapture the magic touch those albums had (imo). But was a good album and i was listening to it today and listening to songs like '' heaven can wait'' and threatned'', makes me wonder if michael felt something bad was gonna happen 2 him.
 
It's simply because he can't even beat himself. He set the bar so high and broke it so everything now that subsequently follows whatever he does, will just never be as good as ' Thriller ' in the publics opinion. To us, everything he does is just great.
 
I love Invincible, my only criticism would be it seems like Michael is going through the motions on some of the tracks (maybe 2 or 3 at most). The rest of the album is solid and in the dark days after the King's death it was this album I turned to for some reason...

Heaven Can Wait...wish that was true.
 
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