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View Full Version : Is MJ a Socially Aware Black Artist to You or Not Really?



mistermaxxx
12-12-2007, 04:45 AM
i ask this because Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, Curtis Mayfield amongest others are considered Socially aware Black Artists but you never hear MJ mentioned in that discussion. now "We Are the World" brought all people together but it was a Black statement with MJ and Lionel Richie writing it together and Quincy Jones Producing it. Can You Feel it, they don't care about us, Jam. He has been socially aware from a Black Perspective,but he never hardly gets acknowledged in this? care to speak on this.

J5master
12-12-2007, 04:57 AM
Well i think a lot of that has to do with the media trying to say that MJ isn't proud to be black DESPITE all accounts otherwise.

But MJ definitely is as socially aware black artist...it's all in his music, like u've mentioned. It's in his humanitarian efforts. I mean it's really come out in recent years with the NAACP speech he gave (then people said he was pulling the race card).

I think also that MJ likes to take a more global approach to his humanitarian efforts. I feel he thinks that he shouldn't focus only on african american issues, which are also important but I feel he wants to reach people globally...on a non-limited scale. That's my take anyway.

eternitys_child
12-12-2007, 05:42 AM
This is a tough one. I don't know if I should comment because I am not sure I understand what you mean by 'socially aware black artist'

He is socially aware

He is black

And he is an artist.

Then I would say he has been praised and recognized for his humanitarian 'socially aware' efforts.

But do you mean something else? Do you mean does he specifically relate to oppression of blacks or to black causes rather than see poor as poor and oppressed as oppressed regardless of race or nationality?

Martin Luther King was considered a black leader but most people interestingly enough do not recognize the universality of his cause. He was a humanitarian fighting for the oppressed above all else. It just happens that the poor were and are largely of color.

So where in that range are you asking if Michael has been recognized? I think that Michael was able to bridge the gap better than Martin Luther King.

Both suffered backlash. Martin Luther King from both white racists and corporations afraid of a rebelling/awakening the poor. You saw the racism first with MLK even though it was really the underlying corporate manipulation that fueled the backlash. With Michael we usually point toward the corporations (Sony, media, etc) trying to get hold of his catalogue or make money off of him. They were able to use racism to aid them (think Snedden). But the difference I think is that blacks always stood solidly behind MLK but with Michael they are confused. He left the J5 and 'crossed over' and in addition it was touted he did not want to recognize being black. He is weathly and that makes him even harder for those blacks who are struggling to relate to (even though it was MLK who was the one born upper class). It put Michael more solidly in the middle but not by any real difference between him and MLK in their philosophy.

J5master
12-12-2007, 06:22 AM
He is socially aware

He is black

And he is an artist.

:lol: Not at u but the obvious comment :tongue: Good points.

JudgingNoone
12-12-2007, 06:34 AM
eternitys_child is making very interesting points as usual. I don't have much to add, but I do think that the times when he tries to say something in his art about opression and expresses that he is indeed one of the opressed, people don't get it. Like TDCAU for instance. It was very obvious to me what that song was about, but most reviewers didn't seem to understand very much.

When people say that MJ doesn't recognize his race, I always think about the scene in the TDCAU prison version where he looks straight in the camera and claps his chest while singing the words "black man, black male, throw a brother in jail". I also think about the panther dance in BOW. It's not a coincidence that he metamorphosises from and into a black panther. Especially since he and his brothers used to do the black panther salute in the seventies.

troubleman84
12-12-2007, 06:49 AM
Yes he is. People just hadn't been following up all these years since. But he's as socially aware as Marvin, Bob and Curtis were.

Soso Deaf
12-12-2007, 03:19 PM
he's aware of what's going on in the world but as far as what's going on back home and how his people are suffering? i don't see him launching an effort on a charity single for darfur or for the ghetto or for those on hud.....

that's y they call him an artist who transcends race. while he has bridged the gap in genre and sex, the whole 'race' thing is still an issue....saying that he is above it is taking away who he is, his identity, and his purpose. the whole reason y thriller is so amazing isn't just b/c it's the best selling solo album...it's b/c it's creator was a young black man who used that album to break down colour barriers.

blacknimproud
12-12-2007, 03:27 PM
Just look at my siggy. lol

Datsymay
12-12-2007, 03:39 PM
he's aware of what's going on in the world but as far as what's going on back home and how his people are suffering? i don't see him launching an effort on a charity single for darfur or for the ghetto or for those on hud.....

that's y they call him an artist who transcends race. while he has bridged the gap in genre and sex, the whole 'race' thing is still an issue....saying that he is above it is taking away who he is, his identity, and his purpose. the whole reason y thriller is so amazing isn't just b/c it's the best selling solo album...it's b/c it's creator was a young black man who used that album to break down colour barriers.
Your post os a contradiction. Cause if you say that he used hisw album to breakdown barrieirs, then how can you say he is not aware of black issues. The 2 don't go together.
From my point of view, the Jackson five were a social awareness group for black people. They were the black icon and the black dream. The coin ' young, gifted and black were made for them. Black people all over the world were proud of them and wanted to be like them When they wore the afro, that initself was a political statement. it was a statememt of defiance and dearing. They had the stuff and they were good and they made us proud to be black.
The Jacksons of themselves were not a political group, they were just out there to do the music, but it was a time of revolution all round. Young whites were fighting to be heard and young blacks were fighting to be seen. It was that movement that pushed the jacksons forwards as the black icon. They represented the young and disenfranchised, and they gave black kids hope.
So yes, I woukld say that MJ and the Jacksons were very much aware of their politivcal reference. I feel that many blacks have been disappointed in MJ because they feel that he has left the cause of not kept faith with them. That is not the truth, Times have changed, and MJ changed with the tuimes, but he more than many have felt the pangs of racism. He is just not going to let it stop him from doing what he wants to do.

raingirl
12-12-2007, 04:30 PM
This is a tough one. I don't know if I should comment because I am not sure I understand what you mean by 'socially aware black artist'

He is socially aware

He is black

And he is an artist.


Michael is not openly a political artist and IMO he shouldn't be. He does write songs that describe the problems that we have in this world. Those issues are often global. And I think that the way he speaks about those important issues he can get a much wider audience. Not just focusing on the issues in USA.
Songs like TDCAU and Can you feel it and Black or white deal with issues that happen all over the world.
He is very much socially aware.

KOPV
12-12-2007, 04:40 PM
Yes he is VERY aware, but he tries not to give RACE anymore attention that it gives.. There is too much labeling "Black" "White" He believes it should not matter, so why feed into it..

With Sony demonstrations he brought race up because that was the issue.. He would talk about it when it is about an ISSUE about race. But other than that NO!! He does not want to feed into the sepperation.

In some songs he brings race up, and it is all in cause of racial issues..Black or White' speaks for itself, but even in 'Man In The Mirror' with some performances he sing. "White man gotta make a change, the white man gotta make a change."

Not saying singing about something makes you aware.. But speeches he's given, the knowledge that he obtaines BEING black, and reading as much as he does.. At one point he said that he reads a book a day.. (probably when he does not have music to work on) But non the less, he's very knowledgable.

Datsymay
12-12-2007, 04:44 PM
Yes he is VERY aware, but he tries not to give RACE anymore attention that it gives.. There is too much labeling "Black" "White" He believes it should not matter, so why feed into it..

With Sony demonstrations he brought race up because that was the issue.. He would talk about it when it is about an ISSUE about race. But other than that NO!! He does not want to feed into the sepperation.

In some songs he brings race up, and it is all in cause of racial issues..Black or White' speaks for itself, but even in 'Man In The Mirror' with some performances he sing. "White man gotta make a change, the white man gotta make a change."

Not saying singing about something makes you aware.. But speeches he's given, the knowledge that he obtaines BEING black, and reading as much as he does.. At one point he said that he reads a book a day.. (probably when he does not have music to work on) But non the less, he's very knowledgable.
Yes, I agree with you, and MJ is a global phenomenon, why should he limit himself to a group of people just because he happens to be a member of that group, it's like saying that a family member shouldn't care about anyone who isn't a member of the family.

sugababe
12-12-2007, 04:51 PM
The fact that MJ has made charity singles for different causes tells you that he is socially aware. Now, if you're talking about black issues in the US, I'm certain he's aware of issues here too. Think about "Beat It" and other songs he's written. He was even going to do a charity single for Katrina (whose victims were mostly black)--not exactly sure what happened to that, but he knows what's going on in the world.

I also agree with the poster above. While some entertainers market to a select group of folks--Mike is marketing to folks on different planets, lol. Mike is probably more aware of what's going on socially than most folks, as he's an avid reader.

Not only is Mike socially aware, but he's doing something about. I believe I saw a picture of him in a Toyota Cirrus(sp). Think "Earth Song."

troubleman84
12-12-2007, 05:08 PM
he's aware of what's going on in the world but as far as what's going on back home and how his people are suffering? i don't see him launching an effort on a charity single for darfur or for the ghetto or for those on hud.....

that's y they call him an artist who transcends race. while he has bridged the gap in genre and sex, the whole 'race' thing is still an issue....saying that he is above it is taking away who he is, his identity, and his purpose. the whole reason y thriller is so amazing isn't just b/c it's the best selling solo album...it's b/c it's creator was a young black man who used that album to break down colour barriers.

I feel Michael is a complex dude but yeah I agree with your point as well. I don't like to be biased about it so I think he's aware but I also think he thinks of himself as transcending race to become what he's become.

Rasta Pasta
12-12-2007, 07:13 PM
Well i think a lot of that has to do with the media trying to say that MJ isn't proud to be black DESPITE all accounts otherwise.

But MJ definitely is as socially aware black artist...it's all in his music, like u've mentioned. It's in his humanitarian efforts. I mean it's really come out in recent years with the NAACP speech he gave (then people said he was pulling the race card).

I think also that MJ likes to take a more global approach to his humanitarian efforts. I feel he thinks that he shouldn't focus only on african american issues, which are also important but I feel he wants to reach people globally...on a non-limited scale. That's my take anyway.

I co-sign.. !!!:)

KOPV
12-12-2007, 08:30 PM
this has always been a contraversal topic. It goes deeper than the music, deeper than A LOT mentioned. I have seen "black" artists, and various people say Michael neglects the fact he's black.. And this was before Michael's skin was light.. So it was not driven by his appearance, but other things..

But I do FIRMLY believe and KNOW he is well aware, and well acknowledges black history, black culture.... HE'S A PROUD BLACK MAN..

olivia
12-12-2007, 09:20 PM
Well he spoke out against the music industry in 2001 and he was mainly protesting against their treatment of Black artists. He, Sharpton, and Johnnie Cochran were to form a coalition. At that time he talked about how the Great Black artists (pioneers) are excluded from history books. At that time I remember Al Sharpton speaking on MJ's concerns for 'Black problems' and that MJ is one of the first to call and donate money when racial injustice occurs. He gave the example of the NY man who was viciously sodomized by the cops years back. Sharpton said Mike was the first to call him offering his assistance and money.
In 1998, Michael was to team up with a wealthy businessman to get a casino business in Detroit. He spoke about ownership and how we need to become 'owners'. I remember him speaking about this (speaking to Black people). The deal fell through unfortunately.
There was (and maybe to this day) a Michael Jackson NAACP scholarship for needy students.
He's worked on African projects with Mandela. And his future plans are to build a theme park in Africa. I so hope this materializes.
I believe Michael Jackson is a very aware black man and does a lot that we never hear about.

MsTenda
12-12-2007, 10:22 PM
Does anyone have the transcripts of Michael speaking with Jesse Jackson - around 2004/2005? Michael made very socially conscious remarks about being black and persecuted. If anyone for one moment forgot that this man is black, please take a moment to listen to that interview.

Michael is militant, black and very socially aware.

eternitys_child
12-12-2007, 10:35 PM
Anyone who went beyond the pictures in Ebony will find that one of Michael's statements about S. Africa is used in an article in the magazine intended to promote black pride. He is speaking about the part that is right, not the part that is struggling that we already hear so much about. Take that as you wish.

SeanK
12-12-2007, 10:43 PM
I think Michael is totally aware. I tyhink he does so much more than what is even publicized... I know that just what is publicized is more than most any other artist ever.

I know when I saw Mike in Gary 2003, he was relaxed and so comfortable amongst his own people. It shined right through him. He was so vibrant and energetic... stood tall, like to relay "these are mah peeps". It was classic. You had to be there.

Read, research... there are too many, many, many examples to prove his ethnic awareness to name right here in one post.

Sadly this is an issue brought up throughout his adult life primarily due to the fact of his vitiligo. He is still a black man through and through. Listen to his soul. His lyrics.

Beautiful black man at heart. :wub:

SeanK
12-12-2007, 10:45 PM
Anyone who went beyond the pictures in Ebony will find that one of Michael's statements about S. Africa is used in an article in the magazine intended to promote black pride. He is speaking about the part that is right, not the part that is struggling that we already hear so much about. Take that as you wish.

I didn't notice that... do you have the quote to share with all of us? Thanks for the insight :-)

wannabestartinsomthin21
12-12-2007, 10:49 PM
Yes.

Anyone who says otherwise is ignorant as to Michael's continued support of black causes throughout his entire, independent life time and his intertwining of statements regarding those issues in his work.

From his music to his films. Like "Bad", for example, as a video, that spoke directly to the conditions and situations of peer pressure many black youths are faced with in this country. With songs like "They Don't Care About Us", lines such as "black man/black mail/throw the brother in jail", etc... Michael speaking about his heritage and culture, implementing that culture in to his dancing, from tap, to jazz to popping and locking and pantomime.

But ultimately, and I think J5Master spoke about this, what makes Michael so globally impactful and important is, he doesn't focus his attention or center himself on the fact of his race, his race does not define him or dictate him. Rather, he transcends that barrier and promotes the betterment of the humane condition, not the black, the white, the Latino, the Indian or the Asian condition, but the state of being a humane being, no matter what color or culture or religion you stem from. He promotes the concept that we are all, essentially, the same. Because the focus we have on ourselves shouldn't be centered on something as menial as racial make up. That only causes a further divide when we constantly are pointing it out as the focal point of who we are, when it truly is not. It is only when we can see passed these man made restrictions, see someone as, not a black man, not a white man, but simply as a man, that all people will be treated and accepted as equal. Michael promotes that. In the end, he is bigger then race issues, political issues, religious issues or social issues. Michael is about more then that, Michael is about living, in the way nature intended us to be, as part of every other living force in the universe, not separated by man-made structure, but as connected and bound to eachother, as equally aware of ourselves and the other, to know ourselves as one and the same.

eternitys_child
12-12-2007, 10:55 PM
I didn't notice that... do you have the quote to share with all of us? Thanks for the insight :-)
Sorry. I lent my magazine to someone (a teacher to help promote black pride in an inner city school as a matter of fact) and don't have it here right now.

It was an expansion of what we saw on the boards about him and his kids being in Africa and all the things they did there. There is a beautiful picture of a modern city at night and nerxt to it the quote from Michael saying people never talk about that side of Africa ie the one that is thriving. You could tell he was proud. What we saw on line (taken out of context) made it seem like he mentioned what he and the kids got to do for some trivial reason like he liked playing in water parks when.

Soso Deaf
13-12-2007, 12:09 AM
Your post os a contradiction. Cause if you say that he used hisw album to breakdown barrieirs, then how can you say he is not aware of black issues. The 2 don't go together.


no, U are a contradiction. J5 wasn't a socially black group that brought any social issues to light. sorry but 'i want u back' had nothing to do w/ the civil rights issues going on.

as far as breaking down barriers...mj did that b/c the society at the time didn't want black voices on white radios, black faces on white music channels, or black faces on their magazines. he was so damn good that they HAD to have him on or risk losing customers.

as far as the 'THE INDUSTRY DOESN'T LIKE BLACK PEOPLE' rant...a bit too late. he knew this THEN. he knew it when he was the undisputed kop...now when his word meant nothing, when they didn't think too highly of him, and when he hadn't really been too predominate in the black community...since his image and his music was geared for EVERYONE, no one took him seriously.

if "bad" Michael had done that speech or even "dangerous' michael, people would've taken it seriously. this is a dude who took over the protest, shocked the rev. and made it personal and about him.

next.

Soso Deaf
13-12-2007, 12:14 AM
Nicole, actions speak louder than words. we've seen mj and his clan in europe more than they were in africa. promises of this and that for africa and all he's done was....usa for africa! so on his trips to london and scotland and bahrain and dubai....where was the skip to the next continent? shopping in Beverly hills on robertson or going shopping while staying w/ the cascios in jersey....u can't save the world. once u realize that u can't, then u can live a little. u can't do both and that's hwat he wants to do. save the world but still go shopping at sharper image....don't make a promise u can't keep, don't make a statement u can't back up, and don't cry to people when things get tough and when it's over forget those cries and return to the humdrum....man had the NOI a few hundred strong at his arraignment...never once did they falter and he used them as security throughout the trial and even now but where is that fist u didn't hesitate to throw up while walking out of court?

just wondering.

SoS
13-12-2007, 04:13 AM
As for the J-5, even though I Want You Back had nothing to do with the civil rights movement, their success had plenty to do with it as examples of what can be achieved despite age or race. Many of these 'black boys' songs were about global love and personal pride (eg., I Am Love, Hallelujah Day, Stand, Can You Feel It) Those types of songs are actually more true statement of 'civil rights' than just talking about "black issues" and, they were entertainers, not activists, so its not fair to point to I Want You Back and say they made no contribution to the cause. I Want You Back brought black people together in its way, whether it was a song about race or not.

Also, you have to look at MJ as a WHOLE person and not just a black person. During the trial of his life, he was throwing up the fist in acknowledgement of the fact that his personal plight was indeed a 'racial' issue - not just about him being a black man, but a WEALTHY black man which power-hungry racists detest even more, next to educated black men. Haven't you heard the expression - "what do they call a wealthy black man with 10 college degrees? N****R

So yes, he pulled out all the stops to fight for his life and being that he's still a wealthy black man, he can afford to shop at Sharper Image - and as pointed out in an earlier post, he's made continual contributions to black education and one of his trips was to Africa...and he still cares about the world as a whole because he realizes that he lives in a whole world, not just a black world, unlike many other black people who see the world problems only one way.

classic
13-12-2007, 04:33 AM
First of all, Michael Jackson doesn't have to explain to anyone why he publicly supported one cause over another. Secondly, I don't think many here can name every and any thing that Michael Jackson has done in the name of charity. Thirdly, so what if Michael Jackson isn't protesting about this and that in Africa or holding charity events for those in Africa. Is that a requirement for all Black Americans to show pride in their race? No. And that needs to stop being the "pissing contest" for it.

There are many walking around with Malcolm X shirts, throwing up their fists, and being all things "Africa." But, in the end, what counts in the individual acts over a lifetime. There is not one person here who can say this man has not given of himself and his finances to others in need. If it was a cause that you would have supported, tough; it wasn't you or your money.

People need to stop expecting the world from Black celebrities. Let them support what they want. It has nothing to do in terms of being a reflection on their feelings towards their race.

Michael Jackson has touched and benefited the lives of many Black people. More shouldn't be required of him as long as he is giving what he feels moved to give. Anything that anyone else wants done should do it themselves, not wait for Michael Jackson to do it.

Michael Jackson exhibits so much more Black pride and awareness in himself simply through actions than many who feel they have to "shout" it.

Michael has repeatedly stated his sentiments towards Africa and many other social issues. Unless you know everything that this man has done, you can't say that he hasn't addressed any of his sentiments. Sometimes what goes most towards the heart of a problem are small series of gestures versus single, grand plans. Unless you can say that he has done nothing as a fact, perhaps such should be left better unsaid.

If people would stop generalizing about this man and actually listen to him and his music, there would be no way to say he isn't a socially aware Black Artist.

And for the record, the Sony demonstrations were not the first time he has spoken out against how the industry can scam Black artist. But, as so often, people tend to ignore and forget what they choose.

sugababe
13-12-2007, 05:04 AM
First of all, Michael Jackson doesn't have to explain to anyone why he publicly supported one cause over another. Secondly, I don't think many here can name every and any thing that Michael Jackson has done in the name of charity. Thirdly, so what if Michael Jackson isn't protesting about this and that in Africa or holding charity events for those in Africa. Is that a requirement for all Black Americans to show pride in their race? No. And that needs to stop being the "pissing contest" for it.

There are many walking around with Malcolm X shirts, throwing up their fists, and being all things "Africa." But, in the end, what counts in the individual acts over a lifetime. There is not one person here who can say this man has not given of himself and his finances to others in need. If it was a cause that you would have supported, tough; it wasn't you or your money.

People need to stop expecting the world from Black celebrities. Let them support what they want. It has nothing to do in terms of being a reflection on their feelings towards their race.

Michael Jackson has touched and benefited the lives of many Black people. More shouldn't be required of him as long as he is giving what he feels moved to give. Anything that anyone else wants done should do it themselves, not wait for Michael Jackson to do it.

Michael Jackson exhibits so much more Black pride and awareness in himself simply through actions than many who feel they have to "shout" it.

Michael has repeatedly stated his sentiments towards Africa and many other social issues. Unless you know everything that this man has done, you can't say that he hasn't addressed any of his sentiments. Sometimes what goes most towards the heart of a problem are small series of gestures versus single, grand plans. Unless you can say that he has done nothing as a fact, perhaps such should be left better unsaid.

If people would stop generalizing about this man and actually listen to him and his music, there would be no way to say he isn't a socially aware Black Artist.

And for the record, the Sony demonstrations were not the first time he has spoken out against how the industry can scam Black artist. But, as so often, people tend to ignore and forget what they choose.
PREACH!!!! Some folks . . . I'll tell you . . .

troubleman84
13-12-2007, 06:43 AM
This is a little off topic but this is my favorite political Marvin lyric:

"People marching for Washington
They wanna hear what you have to say
Because the tables just might turn against you, brother
Serving around Election Day
Politics and hypocrites is turning us all into lunatics
Can you take the guns from our sons?
Right all the wrongs this administration's done
Peace and freedom is the issue
Do you have a plan with you?
'Cause if got the plan, if you got the master plan
Gotta vote for you, I gotta vote for you
'Cause you're the man..." - Marvin Gaye, "You're the Man" (1972)

troubleman84
13-12-2007, 06:46 AM
Here's another:

"They let the children see life destroyed
But they won't let them see its making
What happened to God's creations?!" - "The World Is Rated X" (1972)

Yeah I'm f***in' this thread up, so what?

troubleman84
13-12-2007, 06:53 AM
Prophetic lyrics from a great Rasta man (no not Bob Marley):

"400 years (400 years, 400 years, wo-oo-ah)
And it's the same philosophy
I said it's 400 years (400 years, 400 years, wo-oo-ah)
And the people they still can't see
Why do they fight against the youth of today
And without these youths, they would be gone
All gone astray

Come on, let's make a move
(Make a move, make a move, wo-oo-ah)
I can see time, time has come
And if-a fools don't see
(Fools don't see, fools don't see, wo-oo-ah)
I can't save the youth
The youth will be strong

So won't you come with me?
I'll take you to a land of liberty
Where we can live, live a good life and be free

Look how long: 400 years (400 years, 400 years, wo-oo-ah)
Way too long!
That's the reason my people can't see
Said it's 400 long years (400 years, 400 years, wo-oo-ah)
Give me patience, give me philosophy

It's been 400 years (400 years, 400 years)
Wait so long! Wo-oo-oo-ah
How long? 400 long, long years..."

troubleman84
13-12-2007, 07:01 AM
Here's one of the famed socially aware anthems for black people:

"Get up, stand up
Stand up for your right
Get up, stand up
Stand up for your right
Get up, stand up
Stand up for your right
Get up, stand up
Don't give up the fight

Preacher man don't tell me
That Heaven is under the earth
I know you don't know what life is really worth
It's not all that glitter is gold
Half the story has never been told
So now you see the light, hey, stand up for your rights
Come on!

Get up, stand up
Stand up for your right
Get up, stand up
Don't give up the fight
Get up, stand up
Stand up for your right
Get up, stand up
Don't give up the fight

Most people think Great God will come from the sky
Take away everything and make everybody feel high
But if you know what life is worth
You will look for yours on earth
And now you see the light
So stand up for your right, Jah!

Get up, stand up (Jah, Jah!)
Stand up for your right (oh!)
Get up, stand up (get up, stand up)
Don't give up the fight (life is your right)
Get up, stand up (so we can't give up the fight)
Stand up for your right (Lord, Lord)
Get up, stand up (keep on strugglin' on)
Don't give up the fight (yeah)

We're sick and tired of a-your ism-skism game
Dyin' and going to heaven in Jesus' name, Lord
We know and we understand
Almighty God is a living man
You can fool some people sometimes
But you can't fool all the people all the time
So now we see the light (what you gonna do?)
We're gonna stand up for our rights (yeah, yeah, yeah)

So you better
Get up, stand up (in the morning! Get it up!)
Stand up for your right (stand up for our rights!)
Get up, stand up
Don't give up the fight (don't give it up, don't give it up)..."

troubleman84
13-12-2007, 07:19 AM
Here's another lyric, may not be just for the black experience but I bet a lot of protest artists got a little giggle hearing Ron Isley tear into this lyric:

"I tried to play my music
They said my music's too loud
I tried to turn all about it
I got the big run-around
And when I roll with the punches
I got knocked on the ground
From all this BULLS**T goin' down!"

And don't get me started on Stevie's "U Haven't Done Nothin'"... "Jackson 5, sing it with me, DOO-WOP... DOO-WOP..."

troubleman84
13-12-2007, 07:23 AM
Don't believe Mike was at least influenced by the Isleys:

http://img.youtube.com/vi/kCBTR7583P4/default.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCBTR7583P4

"Fight the power, hee-hee-hee..."

wannabestartinsomthin21
13-12-2007, 07:26 AM
and he still cares about the world as a whole because he realizes that he lives in a whole world, not just a black world, unlike many other black people who see the world problems only one way.


Exactly.

And great post classic. That's the truth right there, all the way. Michael's supported many black establishments, including the NAACP, he's given his music to BET above other channles, he's granted exclusive access and interviews to Ebony and Jet over the years, he's continually spoken about the impact and importance of black artists, visited Africa several times and met with black political leaders such as Nelsen Mendela and tribe leaders as well, etc... More then half the kids he invited out to his ranch were black or hispanic, probably more then half. And he called Tommy Mattola racist, not Sony itself. And as pointed out, that isn't the first or only time Michael has spoken on the issues black artists are faced with in the industry. As a young man he spoke numerous times about how he thought America was brainwashed and that as a country, it should follow suite after places like Switzerland and such, who he felt were color blind. Again, Michael is bigger then race issues, as SoS pointed out, in the big picture, race issues are man made and false, they have no basis in reality. But what about the fact that Michael gave Little Richard his entire music catalog back, for free, after purchasing it? That speaks more to Michael's awarity of black people's struggles in the industry then talking about it every five minutes. Whatever though.

troubleman84
13-12-2007, 07:30 AM
I got a present for y'all:

http://img.youtube.com/vi/tQ96QP7zRZs/default.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ96QP7zRZs

troubleman84
13-12-2007, 07:43 AM
WARNING WHILE VIEWING THIS ONE (filled with graphic shootings):

http://img.youtube.com/vi/RyskNSWRKW0/default.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyskNSWRKW0

Probably the greatest anthem of awareness I don't care what your race is!

troubleman84
13-12-2007, 07:49 AM
Now compare that to:

"We Are the World"
"Man in the Mirror"
"Heal the World"
"Keep the Faith", I think, is the one song where I feel he's actually talking to ME, lol
"They Don't Care About Us" - the other one can be seen in different ways I guess
"Earth Song"
"We've Had Enough" had a Marvin/Curtis/Isleys flair to it

----
Most of these songs don't just speak to black folks and I have to be honest most of the aware songs written and/or performed by black artists can be viewed in different ways but all of them are in essence protest songs that everyone can relate to even if you look at most of them from a black perspective.

Some have called "The Ghetto" the anthem of black life, but the same can be said about "Inner City Blues", "The Bottle", "Living for the City"...

Other songs like "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised" was looked on as black awareness in the '70s but people of all races are determining what "revolution" means in their minds.

So has James Brown's "I'm Black and I'm Proud" hence that there were a multi-racial melting pot of children singing the chorus, lol!

Michael mostly speaks from HUMANITARIAN views so in that sense, he's aware of world issues (like "Can You Feel It" for example).

wannabestartinsomthin21
13-12-2007, 07:52 AM
To be "honest", its the focus on race which causes racism.

Michael is special. People know he's black, of course, but its a non-factor when it comes to him, a physical fact and nothing more, they don't even notice. People don't care, because what Michael is and what he represnets is so far beyond that sh*t, that it doesn't matter to them, he isn't anything to them but a human being with a grand gift, and that's why his impact and person is so far reaching. He truly trancsends race and other, man-made, social devides.

I'm done with this conversation.

Datsymay
13-12-2007, 10:15 AM
no, U are a contradiction. J5 wasn't a socially black group that brought any social issues to light. sorry but 'i want u back' had nothing to do w/ the civil rights issues going on.

as far as breaking down barriers...mj did that b/c the society at the time didn't want black voices on white radios, black faces on white music channels, or black faces on their magazines. he was so damn good that they HAD to have him on or risk losing customers.

as far as the 'THE INDUSTRY DOESN'T LIKE BLACK PEOPLE' rant...a bit too late. he knew this THEN. he knew it when he was the undisputed kop...now when his word meant nothing, when they didn't think too highly of him, and when he hadn't really been too predominate in the black community...since his image and his music was geared for EVERYONE, no one took him seriously.

if "bad" Michael had done that speech or even "dangerous' michael, people would've taken it seriously. this is a dude who took over the protest, shocked the rev. and made it personal and about him.

next.
SoSi, you will never understand the impact the time. It doesn't matter what they were singing. it mattered that they were there, representing and doing the things that was NEVER done before by a black group. They were so GOOD that they couldn't be ignored and the WHOLE WORLD stood up and took notice.
It was a time of black pride and every young black person believed they could do something because of the Jacksons. Yes, it was a social statememt. You should have heard Ian Wright, one of the greatest british black footballer speak about them in a BBC documentary. 'Let me show you the way to go', was exactly what they were doing and they did it well. Many young blacks were inspired by them and went on to be somebody. Solo Michael took it international, which was what martin Luther King was trying to do but failed when they killed him. Yes, MJ breakdown barriers and he fills me with black pride.
He shows you that if you have the will and the motivation you can make it despite the odds. It is not about getting handouts and feeling sorry for yourself. it is about taking what you have and working with it and making the best of life.:D

Red*
13-12-2007, 10:48 AM
I don't understand why people group artists in group of black and white? I see Michael and I don't think if he's white or black. He is an artists and it doesn't matter what race he has. Maybe it was important in past.

SoS
13-12-2007, 02:21 PM
as far as the 'THE INDUSTRY DOESN'T LIKE BLACK PEOPLE' rant...a bit too late. he knew this THEN.he knew it when he was the undisputed kop.
Isn't it fair enough to say that the issue hadn't yet impacted him in such a personal way...where for the first time, it was staring him in the face head-on..and he confronted it head-on. Who of us responds passionately to issues until they impact us personally? Many times we are interested in something that doesn't impact us personally but when it gets personal it gets to another level.


..now when his word meant nothing, when they didn't think too highly of him, and when he hadn't really been too predominate in the black communitysince his image and his music was geared for EVERYONE, no one took him seriously. If no one took him seriously it may have been because the way he went about it seemed incongruent with his style of communication and behavior, I don't feel it was because he'd reached out to a larger audience.

Michael had reached out to a larger audience and was hailed the undisputed KOP long before 2001. By 2001 he found himself fighting something very personally directed at his livlihood and well-being, which is another thing the public at large found very hard to accept, believe and understand, which is also why they may not have taken it seriously.

We can see now that his word meant plenty because people still think very highly of him to this day, - - minus Sony.

Michael standing on his own as an industry icon and a force to be reckoned with, proves that.


To be "honest", its the focus on race which causes racism.

No truer words have ever been spoken.

mjjmsc
13-12-2007, 02:42 PM
Michael opened the door for black musician,he showed that if you are good enought there are NO LIMITS!

Soso Deaf
14-12-2007, 01:09 PM
by 2001 the world thought of him as a pedophile. going on a bus bashing mattolla and then making a pc about him and his issues instead of focusing on what was at hand. sorry but mike dealt w/ the issues blacks face in the industry. he was just making hella money and was on the top so i don't think he cared too much about shedding light on it.

timmy, i could kiss u for those links....note that bob's mother said he came into the world light, almost looking like he was mixed or could even pass for a white man b/c if he wasn't, no one would have listened to what he was preaching. my favorite is CRAZY BALDHEADS....guess who he's talking about in that one.

mj had his chance in ebony to say something positive about obama....he chose to say he was taught not to think about it. didn't he perform at clinton's inaug? didn't he hang out w/ nasty ass ronald r? cop out if u ask me

raingirl
14-12-2007, 05:31 PM
by 2001 the world thought of him as a pedophile
I think the world had pretty much forgotten about the allegations of 93 in 2001 until the new sh!t hit the fan in after the Bashir interview 2003.
Sorry a bit ot but I had to say it.

troubleman84
14-12-2007, 05:33 PM
timmy, i could kiss u for those links....note that bob's mother said he came into the world light, almost looking like he was mixed or could even pass for a white man b/c if he wasn't, no one would have listened to what he was preaching. my favorite is CRAZY BALDHEADS....guess who he's talking about in that one.

:D Thanx, Kate... yeah I just heard "Crazy Baldheads", like YESTERDAY! :D

enlightenu
14-12-2007, 07:26 PM
by 2001 the world thought of him as a pedophile. going on a bus bashing mattolla and then making a pc about him and his issues instead of focusing on what was at hand. sorry but mike dealt w/ the issues blacks face in the industry. he was just making hella money and was on the top so i don't think he cared too much about shedding light on it.

timmy, i could kiss u for those links....note that bob's mother said he came into the world light, almost looking like he was mixed or could even pass for a white man b/c if he wasn't, no one would have listened to what he was preaching. my favorite is CRAZY BALDHEADS....guess who he's talking about in that one.

mj had his chance in ebony to say something positive about obama....he chose to say he was taught not to think about it. didn't he perform at clinton's inaug? didn't he hang out w/ nasty ass ronald r? cop out if u ask me

First of all Michael Jackson as far back when he was with the Jacksons during the mid to late 70's and early eighties BEFORE he ever made mega-stardom with Thriller, always talked about his Black heritage, his Black pride, racism as well as Black entertainers before his time failed to get the recognition they deserved. What he said at that press conference with Al Sharpton was not new nor was it some new revelation slapping him in the face because of his experience with Sony. Michael always felt that way. I'm old enough to remember that. That's why I get a little irked with people--especially Black people--who has this attitude that Michael 'left home and didn't come back home until he needs us'. Or other nonsense such as "right message; but WRONG messenger"--which many of our people were spewing out against Michael during that Sony ruckus.

Second of all, Michael's 'Blackness' was never really questioned UNTIL he got extremly popular with Thriller-mania and crossed over. Then Black people started making snide remarks questioning his Black awareness and his sensibilities of 'the struggle'. I remember it when it was yesterday. This was during the 80's when Michael was still a brown-skinned brotha with no trace of lightness and certainly when the thought of accusing him of pedophilia was never even mentioned in the same sentence as Michael Jackson--he was considered a harmless lovable Peter Pan or Pide Piper.

Michael's black awareness being doubted or questioned by our people is not new nor did it began or end with him. That mess always happens to our entertainers who are able to appeal to not only Blacks but Whites and other races too. Whitney Houston got 'the treatment' from some of us too when she got mainstream appeal.

Thirdly, in that Ebony interview, Michael Jackson said he had no comment not only regarding Barak Obama running for president, but also regarding Hillary Clinton also (she's white isn't she?) He made a valid point as to why--regardless of whether anyone agrees with him or not--All of the world's problems that are happening are TOO MUCH for mere humans to solve or to handle. If that wasn't the case, considering the various governments and regiments and people in power that have come during these hundreds and even thousands of years, we still have wars, hunger, poverty, sickness AND no peace. If people were had the ability to rid the earth of such things, WHY are things ills still plaguing out earth? Like I said, whether people agree with him or not, call it a cop out if you want there's strong in your face evidence what he said has merit.

troubleman84
14-12-2007, 07:52 PM
Time for me to go off topic since people love to argue:

The Beast
Warning: explicit lyrics

Warn the town, the beast is loose
(A-AH, A-AH! Word 'em up, yo)
Warn the town, the beast is loose
(A-AH, A-AH! Come on...)

(Lauryn)
Conflicts with night sticks
Illegal sales districts
Hand-picked lunatics keep poli-TRICK-cians rich
Heretics push narcoctics amidst its risks and frisks
Cool cliques hit bricks but seldom hit targets
Private-DIC sells hits, like porno flicks do chicks
The 666 cut W.I.C. like Newt Gingrich SUCKS ****

(Wyclef)
Meanwhile the government brings Star Wars from glocks to glockers
C.O.P. has an APB out on Chewbacca
Mista Mayor, can I say something in your honor
Yesterday in Central Park they got the Jogger
Okay, okay
Let's get the confusion straight in ghetto Gotham
The man behind the mask you thought was Batman is Bill Clinton
Who soon retire, the roof is on fire
Connie Chung brung the bomb as it comes from Oklahoma
Things are getting serious, Kumbaya
On a mountain Satan offered me, Manhattan help me Jah Jah

(Wyclef)
You can't search me without probable cause
On that proper ammunition they call reasonable suspicion
Listen I bring friction to your whole jurisdiction
You planted seeds in my seat when I wasn't looking
Now they wanna ask me for my license/registration
"WHAT THE F**K" is my name?
"WHAT THE F**K" is my occupation?
Well I'm an emcee, I'm down with the Fugees
Mother Mary caught a flashback like Rodney now the cops got Lolly

(Lauryn)
The subconscious psychology that you use against me
If I lose control will send me to the penetentiary
Such as Alcatraz, or shot up like El-Hadj Malik Shabazz
High class get bypassed while my ass get harassed
And the fuzz treat bruhs like they manhood never was
And if you too powerful, you get bugged like Peter Tosh and Marley was
And my word does nothing against the Feds
So my eyes stay red as I chase crazy baldheads, word up

(Chorus)
Warn the town, the beast is loose (Ah-AH, Ah-AH! Word 'em up, yo)
Warn the town, the beast is loose (Ah-AH, Ah-AH!)

(Wyclef)
The chase is on and I feel like the bad guy
Fifth gear 125 like New Jersey drive
Looked in my rear view mirror
Police was gettin' closer
Heard a roar in the sky
Looked up and saw the Blue Thunder
My inner conscious says throw your handkerchief and surrender
But TO WHO?
The star-spangled banner
Oh say can't you see cops more crooked than we?
By the dawn's early light robbin' n****s for kis
Easy low key crooked military
Pay taxes out my ass but they still harass me

(Pras)
The streets of corruption got me bustlin' and cussin' in this concrete jungle
Thoughts being dribbled like that tall kid Mutumbo
Handled by Hannibal
Soon I'm gonna be a fugitive like Dr. Kimble

(Wyclef)
Hey yo should I slow down?

(Pras)
Nah kid, go faster
'Cause even with a badge, they can still be impostors
Probable cause, got flaws like dirty draws
Meet me at the corner store so we can start the street wars

(Chorus)

rickd
14-12-2007, 09:55 PM
I think most things have been said. To answer the question I think MJ is socially aware and it comes from a genuine place, $300 million is hardly playin around. The brother has contributed.

I totally agree with what Katie says, and it's an unpopular view with fans and I can see that side of it. Socially aware yes but Michael plays the game and has played the game when it comes to his image.

Personally, I looked at Michael up on that bus and thought it was a bit too late in the piece to start protesting now. Like Katie says, you gonna protest when the chips are down or protest when you are the KOP. In the late 80s early 90s that was a pretty good time to be MikeJack wasn't it? So where was the talks then? Where was the truth then? Why wasn't he telling arenas not to "walk out of here and forget". Well it's simple, he played the game, dude needs longevity, who wants to be a Bono right? Why turn yourself into a flight risk so you get shut down.

So yeah he will go the Clinton thing when he is the star of the show, he'll go to the White House when he is a black man getting his awards and praise. But he isn't going to request any meetings and use his unprecendented global fame to help Africa. No, MJ don't talk politics because then the media, the fans, the world and box him and his success is that he cannot be boxed.

The last thing i will say is, obviously the trial killed any plans he had but in more recent times MJ, in my opinion, has talked the talk but no action. He doesn't wanna turn into that guy...and i hope he does goto Africa and start showing how much it means to him.

(Imma get mah head bit off)

Datsymay
14-12-2007, 10:06 PM
MJ was awarded by an African group in 2003 for his contribution to charity for Africa.

SoS
14-12-2007, 10:33 PM
quote]by 2001 the world thought of him as a pedophile [/quote]



Quote:

I think the world had pretty much forgotten about the allegations of 93 in 2001 until the new sh!t hit the fan in after the Bashir interview 2003.
Sorry a bit ot but I had to say it.
No, you took the words right out of my mouth; its the truth - The world did not think of him as a pedophile in 2001. That was the whole probelem. The plan had failed! The purpose of having the INSURANCE cover that matter was served in terms of removing that mess from public consciousness and so did his 'other' PR moves - by 2001 Michael had moved on and so did the world.



First of all Michael Jackson as far back when he was with the Jacksons during the mid to late 70's and early eighties BEFORE he ever made mega-stardom with Thriller, always talked about his Black heritage, his Black pride, racism as well as Black entertainers before his time failed to get the recognition they deserved. What he said at that press conference with Al Sharpton was not new nor was it some new revelation slapping him in the face because of his experience with Sony. Michael always felt that way. I'm old enough to remember that. That's why I get a little irked with people--especially Black people--who has this attitude that Michael 'left home and didn't come back home until he needs us'. Or other nonsense such as "right message; but WRONG messenger"--which many of our people were spewing out against Michael during that Sony ruckus.

Second of all, Michael's 'Blackness' was never really questioned UNTIL he got extremly popular with Thriller-mania and crossed over. Then Black people started making snide remarks questioning his Black awareness and his sensibilities of 'the struggle'. I remember it when it was yesterday. This was during the 80's when Michael was still a brown-skinned brotha with no trace of lightness and certainly when the thought of accusing him of pedophilia was never even mentioned in the same sentence as Michael Jackson--he was considered a harmless lovable Peter Pan or Pide Piper.

Michael's black awareness being doubted or questioned by our people is not new nor did it began or end with him. That mess always happens to our entertainers who are able to appeal to not only Blacks but Whites and other races too. Whitney Houston got 'the treatment' from some of us too when she got mainstream appeal.

Thirdly, in that Ebony interview, Michael Jackson said he had no comment not only regarding Barak Obama running for president, but also regarding Hillary Clinton also (she's white isn't she?) He made a valid point as to why--regardless of whether anyone agrees with him or not--All of the world's problems that are happening are TOO MUCH for mere humans to solve or to handle. If that wasn't the case, considering the various governments and regiments and people in power that have come during these hundreds and even thousands of years, we still have wars, hunger, poverty, sickness AND no peace. If people were had the ability to rid the earth of such things, WHY are things ills still plaguing out earth? Like I said, whether people agree with him or not, call it a cop out if you want there's strong in your face evidence what he said has merit.
Thank you! Very true! And for the moment I'd forgotten about the fact that back in the day he certainly did often mention the way the great African American artists were abused by the music industry. That is an excellent point. I also feel that when it impacted him as personally as it did he became motivated to do the things that he otherwise might not have. Everything in this post is so very well stated - thank you very much!

As far as this "Barak" question - I find it fascinating that some people are so upset that Michael didn't support their personal politcal agenda. That is very interesting to me and I do not understand that sense of entitlement while not being willing to allow Michael the same entitlement to his own freedom of speech and freedom of choice.

Michael was exercising his own personal civil/religious/human right not to comment on that and he explained in his own words that in the religion of his upbringing he learned that until God's kingdom comes, and God's will is DONE on earth, as it is in Heaven, the world will still be under satanic influence - even if the prices of medicine and gasoline DO come down or whatever else are the problems of the day - there will be old age and death until God fixes it, meanwhile MJ chooses what he's going to care for as much as he can - this ought to tell people that he is committed to God as a personal value deep within whether he continues with the rituals, practices and chapter&verse doctrines of the religion of his upbringing - or not - and that he does his part to making this world a better place, regardless to what the "candidates" are (saying they're) going to do.


didn't he perform at clinton's inaug?

Just because he sang at Clinton's inaugural does not mean he's going to fulfill some peoples' fantasies that he'd begin waving banners for all the democrats of America.


didn't he hang out w/ nasty ass ronald r?

No. Regan was the President at the time that Michael was at the center of the world's attention and Ragen (imho) used it as an opportunity to 'enhance' his wife's 'anti-drug' agenda while at the same time commend Michael for his positive contribution and influence on youth in our society and did it very publicly.

NO, I don't believe they went to the movies, Disneyland or the arcade together..

troubleman84
14-12-2007, 10:45 PM
Well like I said he's aware.

:lol:

enlightenu
14-12-2007, 11:31 PM
I think most things have been said. To answer the question I think MJ is socially aware and it comes from a genuine place, $300 million is hardly playin around. The brother has contributed.

I totally agree with what Katie says, and it's an unpopular view with fans and I can see that side of it. Socially aware yes but Michael plays the game and has played the game when it comes to his image.

Personally, I looked at Michael up on that bus and thought it was a bit too late in the piece to start protesting now. Like Katie says, you gonna protest when the chips are down or protest when you are the KOP. In the late 80s early 90s that was a pretty good time to be MikeJack wasn't it? So where was the talks then? Where was the truth then? Why wasn't he telling arenas not to "walk out of here and forget". Well it's simple, he played the game, dude needs longevity, who wants to be a Bono right? Why turn yourself into a flight risk so you get shut down.

So yeah he will go the Clinton thing when he is the star of the show, he'll go to the White House when he is a black man getting his awards and praise. But he isn't going to request any meetings and use his unprecendented global fame to help Africa. No, MJ don't talk politics because then the media, the fans, the world and box him and his success is that he cannot be boxed.

The last thing i will say is, obviously the trial killed any plans he had but in more recent times MJ, in my opinion, has talked the talk but no action. He doesn't wanna turn into that guy...and i hope he does goto Africa and start showing how much it means to him.

(Imma get mah head bit off)

I'm not gonna bite cha head off. But I will disagree. What's with this 'he never tried to help Africa' or 'he don't go to Africa' business? as someone said earlier, Michael was crowned an honorary King in Africa back in 1992 and that was amidst false rumors that tried to make him look like a snob when he was visiting there. What was the purpose in creating those rumors I wonder? Hmmmm! He visited an orphanages and donated to that orphanage I believe. Ebony and Jet magazine were the only media that were invited to accompany Michael and his team to Africa--which was a good thing because the media was trying to turn his trip into a public-relations disaster AND some of the ill-informed Black media fell for it too. When Ebony and Jet did a full cover story on Michael's trip, many people who had so much criticsism didn't say a word after that. Michael Jackson was welcomed with open arms in the land of his ancestors--full-blooded Africans who know their tribes and heritage first hand. Many of us here in the States (including myself) have no idea what African tribe we descended from and some of us have the nerve to throw a 'Blacker than thou' attitude towards Michael Jackson because he doesn't show enough(to our satisfaction) how 'down' he is with his people?

And Michael Jackson has been to Africa MANY times--during the Afro era and during the Jheri Curl era and down through the lace-front era. One time he and his family went to an African country--were he was being honored and Lisa Marie and her two kids were with him--after she filed for divorce by the way. Over the years some of his trips were caught by the media, others trips were not. Same thing with his charity work. Michael Jackson has always contributed to Africa and also to many causes for African Americans, he just doesn't ALWAYS feel the need to SHOW and PROVE that he does to appease those who say 'What did he ever do for his people?'

If there are Blacks that need to be questioned on their solidarity with their people, it's the ones who make babies and abandon them; those who profit from the destruction of their community by selling drugs and using and recruiting our young and impressionable ones to follow in their footsteps--and not being honest with them about how their lives would be messed up if they took up with that lifestyle; those-through their attitudes and actions--make a mockery of the struggles, sacrifices and persecution generations of our people before us went through just to get a good education and to be considered just as good and equal; those, who despite the painful history behind the 'N word will call each other the N word and make lame allowances for it (so what if it's with a 'gga'!) as well as calling and referring to their women as 'b**ch's and 'ho's-whether on the street, amidst four walls or in a song where other races hear it and wonder why they can't say it if we say it. Those are the Blacks that should be questioned about their Black pride and their Black awareness--not Michael Jackson.

Also no matter WHEN Michael Jackson made a protest--especially during and after the Thriller hype--it would still garner some flack and even snickers from people--sadly including some of our own. Why? 'Cause that's how peeps are!

troubleman84
14-12-2007, 11:45 PM
I think most things have been said. To answer the question I think MJ is socially aware and it comes from a genuine place, $300 million is hardly playin around. The brother has contributed.

I totally agree with what Katie says, and it's an unpopular view with fans and I can see that side of it. Socially aware yes but Michael plays the game and has played the game when it comes to his image.

Personally, I looked at Michael up on that bus and thought it was a bit too late in the piece to start protesting now. Like Katie says, you gonna protest when the chips are down or protest when you are the KOP. In the late 80s early 90s that was a pretty good time to be MikeJack wasn't it? So where was the talks then? Where was the truth then? Why wasn't he telling arenas not to "walk out of here and forget". Well it's simple, he played the game, dude needs longevity, who wants to be a Bono right? Why turn yourself into a flight risk so you get shut down.

So yeah he will go the Clinton thing when he is the star of the show, he'll go to the White House when he is a black man getting his awards and praise. But he isn't going to request any meetings and use his unprecendented global fame to help Africa. No, MJ don't talk politics because then the media, the fans, the world and box him and his success is that he cannot be boxed.

The last thing i will say is, obviously the trial killed any plans he had but in more recent times MJ, in my opinion, has talked the talk but no action. He doesn't wanna turn into that guy...and i hope he does goto Africa and start showing how much it means to him.

(Imma get mah head bit off)

:yes: But I think everyone knows Mike is socially aware. He did donate to nearly 40 charitable foundations and ish. But I agree that if he wanted, he could do more. I think a lot of issues have gotten in the way of him actually doing what he's talked about for years but was too busy with professional aspects to really pay attention.

troubleman84
14-12-2007, 11:59 PM
I could say the one song Mike was showing his "black awareness" was "The Young Folks" but that seemed to be about, as James Brown said, "long-hair Whites and Afro Blacks".

The Young Folks

You better make way for the young folks
Here we come (here we come)
And we're so alive
We're here for business, buddy
And don't want no jive (don't want no jive)
Brighter tomorrows are in our eyes

You better make way for the young folks, ooh yeah-yeah, yeah-yeah
We say "yes" (we say "yes") and you say "no"
We ask you why and you close the door (and you close the door)
Well, my friend, I thought you knew by now, yeah
You can't do that to the young folks, oh no-no, no-no

You might not like it but I gotta tell you
(You may not like it but I gotta tell you)
I gotta tell you, oh yeah-yeah-yeah

You better make way for the young folks, ooh yeah-yeah, yeah-yeah
We're marching with signs, we're standing in line, yeah, yeah
Protesting your right to turn out the lights in our lives

Here's the deal (here's the deal)
Accept it if you will
We're coming on strong, yeah (coming on strong)
It's our time to live (our time to live)
My friend, I thought you knew by now yeah
You better make way for the young folks
Ooh yeah-yeah, yeah-yeah

You may not like it but I gotta tell you
(You may not like it but I gotta tell you)
Oh yeah-yeah, yeah-yeah

You better make way
You better make way
You gotta make way for the young folks, yeah, yeah
Ah!
Ah!
Yeah!
Ooooooh!

You may not like it but I gotta tell you, I gotta tell you
(You may not like it but I gotta tell you)
Oh now, now, now, you gotta make way
You gotta make way, you gotta make way for the young folks, yeah, yeah
Ah!
Ah!
Ah!
(Fade)

(C) 1970 Motown Records, LP.

Also recorded a year earlier before the J5 by Diana Ross & the Supremes.

Soso Deaf
17-12-2007, 12:58 AM
quote]by 2001 the world thought of him as a pedophile


No, you took the words right out of my mouth; its the truth - The world did not think of him as a pedophile in 2001. That was the whole probelem. The plan had failed! The purpose of having the INSURANCE cover that matter was served in terms of removing that mess from public consciousness and so did his 'other' PR moves - by 2001 Michael had moved on and so did the world.



[/quote]

whoa u are so out of it...like totally. so the world thought of mj as a NORMAL person in 2001? r u serious? was this before or after his bus fun w/ the loudphone and the mattolla bashing? r u serious?

as for insurance, u act as if he wanted them to settle. he didn't want to...feldman knew that a simple 'negligence' was the best way to have someone OTHER THAN MJ pay the family off....he was right.

rickd, u get it....AS USUAL and timmy...more more more more

datsy...it doesn't matter what award he was given....actions again, speak louder than words. u can throw money at anyone and everyone, doesn't mean u feel strongly towards anything. he's a 'humanitarian' right?

by 2001 nothing faded from anyone's damn mind. they still made fun of him and still made references of him w/ kids. jokes taking the piss out of what he was doing. like speaking at oxford...about CHILDREN....haha mike jackson and children...or did we all forget about tht negative press?

funny, some fans have selective memories or would like to believe the world sees the way they do.

i could care less about who he 'votes' for or doesn't vote for or support...the fact is, since he's a 'humanitarian' shouldn't he back the best candidate that says they'll do the most for the world? performing at an inaguration does show some sort of support. it's not like he did it for the fun of it.

SoS
17-12-2007, 03:31 AM
whoa u are so out of it...like totally. so the world thought of mj as a NORMAL person in 2001? r u serious?

- I didn't say the world thought of him as a 'normal' person - I said the world did not think of him as a pedophile - as a matter of fact, the people who presently claim to think of him that way, are using the (faulty) reasoning that it is because he was accused TWICE

- but, by 2001 no, maybe some people here & there did - but in terms of the collective consciousness of the public - the world had basically moved on - they may have been wondering what was up with all that, with a question mark in their minds about him, but since it was widely publicized that he desputed it - and since the heart of the world loved Michael since he was a boy bringing light and life to them - - nobody wanted to think that of him as a pedophile - so like the 'sheep' that the public are - they became easily destracted - there were other factors they focused on that gave the public an enigmatic sense of "weirdness" about him in general

the public focus became his two 'awkward' marraiges, whether they were stunts or what - his children - wondering whether they were his or not - his face - wondering how many surgeries he'd had - his alleged drug addiction(s) - his 'odd' choice of friends - wondering why he hangs out with people like Schmuly Boteach, Uri Geller, Liz Taylor - his music - why even though they liked Invincible it didn't seem to be off the chain in publicity - but no the world did not think of Michael Jackson AS a "pedophile" like you seem to would like to think and like some people claim to insist upon thinking (I don't believe they really believe that - I think they're just trying to justify their envy) even after he's been acquitted of BOTH allegations (Michael got a 2 in 1 strike thanks to 1108) - I'm not saying that NOBODY thought of him as that - I'm talking about what was in public consciousness about him - the fact that SOMEBODY (anybody) thought of him as that is obviously what "unfinished business" was all about - which was of course dealt with in 2005.


was this before or after his bus fun w/ the loudphone and the mattolla bashing? r u serious? Some people saw that as you did and some people saw that as I did but that's beside the point.


as for insurance, u act as if he wanted them to settle. I'm not 'acting' like anything - I'm pointing out to you that that is how it was handled - and that is all I said (although I will add that it wasn't as if Micahel "paid the boy off" like some people who like to hang on to this "pedophile" conversation also keep insinuating)


he didn't want to...feldman knew that a simple 'negligence' was the best way to have someone OTHER THAN MJ pay the family off....he was right Regardless to what Feldman CLAIMS was the reason, Insurance made the most sense, since MJ was NOT GUILTY and MONEY was ALL those people wanted.


by 2001 nothing faded from anyone's damn mind. There had been enough distractions created by 2001 that nobody was focused on 1993 and other things became the focus, and just as when you focus a camera - yes other things FADED into the background. It wasn't thought of in public consciousness again until the 2003 allegations and it was a good thing it was brought BACK to light - so it could give the 1993 accuser a chance to stand up for the (then) current (so-called) victim AND himself - BOTH of which he DECLINED - he just let that duck die - - - in the water - - floating on its belly.


they still made fun of him and still made references of him w/ kids. They spent more time talking about his face, his marraiges, his photographs, his friendship with Liz Taylor and stuff like that - only after the 2005 ACQUITTAL did SOME people insist on THINKING of him as a pedophile because that is what they wanted to think. They were holding on to their jokes and their prejudice for dear life.


jokes taking the piss out of what he was doing. like speaking at oxford...about CHILDREN....haha mike jackson and children...or did we all forget about tht negative press? Nobody is saying there wasn't "negative press" - but again, there had been far too many distractions created from 1993 to 2001 for anyone to be stuck on that.


funny, some fans have selective memories or would like to believe the world sees the way they do.Ya know, funny you say that because I was thinking the exact same thing - it amazes me how 'selective' memory can cause people to also become interestingly creative.


i could care less about who he 'votes' for or doesn't vote for or support...the fact is, since he's a 'humanitarian' shouldn't he back the best candidate that says they'll do the most for the world? performing at an inaguration does show some sort of support. it's not like he did it for the fun of it. It seems as though people, especially those who support Michael, ought to at the very least, be able to respect his personal freedoms.

mjstheone
17-12-2007, 04:17 AM
Second of all, Michael's 'Blackness' was never really questioned UNTIL he got extremly popular with Thriller-mania and crossed over. Then Black people started making snide remarks questioning his Black awareness and his sensibilities of 'the struggle'. I remember it when it was yesterday. This was during the 80's when Michael was still a brown-skinned brotha with no trace of lightness and certainly when the thought of accusing him of pedophilia was never even mentioned in the same sentence as Michael Jackson--he was considered a harmless lovable Peter Pan or Pide Piper.

Michael's black awareness being doubted or questioned by our people is not new nor did it began or end with him. That mess always happens to our entertainers who are able to appeal to not only Blacks but Whites and other races too. Whitney Houston got 'the treatment' from some of us too when she got mainstream appeal.

Thirdly, in that Ebony interview, Michael Jackson said he had no comment not only regarding Barak Obama running for president, but also regarding Hillary Clinton also (she's white isn't she?) He made a valid point as to why--regardless of whether anyone agrees with him or not--All of the world's problems that are happening are TOO MUCH for mere humans to solve or to handle. If that wasn't the case, considering the various governments and regiments and people in power that have come during these hundreds and even thousands of years, we still have wars, hunger, poverty, sickness AND no peace. If people were had the ability to rid the earth of such things, WHY are things ills still plaguing out earth? Like I said, whether people agree with him or not, call it a cop out if you want there's strong in your face evidence what he said has merit


Exactly!

Its not up to MJ or any other black celebrity to fix the problems within the black community. It is up to the black community as a whole. All celebrities can do is use their fame to inspire people to take action and contribute time and money to the cause and MJ has done that. AND any socially aware black celebrity knows that they can't be too vocal about their political views. The media is not having any of that.

troubleman84
17-12-2007, 04:46 AM
whoa u are so out of it...like totally. so the world thought of mj as a NORMAL person in 2001? r u serious? was this before or after his bus fun w/ the loudphone and the mattolla bashing? r u serious?

as for insurance, u act as if he wanted them to settle. he didn't want to...feldman knew that a simple 'negligence' was the best way to have someone OTHER THAN MJ pay the family off....he was right.

rickd, u get it....AS USUAL and timmy...more more more more

datsy...it doesn't matter what award he was given....actions again, speak louder than words. u can throw money at anyone and everyone, doesn't mean u feel strongly towards anything. he's a 'humanitarian' right?

by 2001 nothing faded from anyone's damn mind. they still made fun of him and still made references of him w/ kids. jokes taking the piss out of what he was doing. like speaking at oxford...about CHILDREN....haha mike jackson and children...or did we all forget about tht negative press?

funny, some fans have selective memories or would like to believe the world sees the way they do.

i could care less about who he 'votes' for or doesn't vote for or support...the fact is, since he's a 'humanitarian' shouldn't he back the best candidate that says they'll do the most for the world? performing at an inaguration does show some sort of support. it's not like he did it for the fun of it.

I think the real reason why Mike did what he did in 2002 because he was frustrated with what he thought was the doing of Tommy Mottola. He wasn't really doing it for other artists but for the sake of his own career and the way his album was promoted at the time. Plus he felt Tommy disrespected him in a way that he didn't think anyone should disrespect the "King of Pop" so that's when he went on the defense. Al Sharpton & 'em got on his back initially then backed away after Mike called Tommy a racist, lol. People thought Mike lost his marbles then and they still think he's a couple of screws loose. There was no sense that he was deemed "normal" by the public...unless you mean the public is MJ fans, lol. Also Mike was never about politics anyway so in that sense, I don't think he's "socially aware" if we're talking about that. Awareness can mean a lot of different things.

Soso Deaf
17-12-2007, 01:39 PM
u do realize that even MANY fans don't realize insurance paid the family? there was NO WAY insurance would have paid UNLESS feldman changed the allegations to simple negligence. please don't think it was anything smart or savvy on mj's part...it was all feldman.

and yes, they saw him as a pedophile b/c this is the same man who went on PTL and said he would continue the sleep overs...the same guy who continued to be seen w/ kids (mainly the cascios) and the same dude who they felt was eccentric.

no one here is holding on the pedophile notion...it's just how he was seen. believe what u want but if reality and common sense are present, then parts of ur argument are just faulty.

he's socially aware but doesn't throw it out there like 'im proud to be black' cuz um...he doesn't exude it. u got india arie singing about her hair and the struggles black folks have been through just b/c of it, akon singing about and embracing africa, and common and mos def uplifting us and mike's singing about the break of dawn.

yes, the save the world songs that appear on every album might inspire but it doesn't resonate w/ me.....the line he sang in '2300 j st.' when he said he'd always find his way back home....kind of wishful thinking or song filler imo.

carry on

troubleman84
17-12-2007, 02:21 PM
Here's one of my favorite socially aware songs of all time:

Inner City Blues
(M. Gaye, Jr./J. Nyx, Jr.)

Rockets, moonshots
Spending on the have-nots
Money, we make it
Before we see it, you take it
Ah make me wanna holler, the way they do my life
Make me wanna holler, the way they do my life
This ain't living, this ain't living
Nah, nah baby this ain't living, no, no, no, no

Inflation, no chance
To increase finance
Bills pile up sky high
Send that boy off to die
Oh make me wanna holler
The way they do my life
Make me wanna holler
The way they do my life

(Scatting)

Hang-ups, let downs
Bad breaks, setbacks
Natural fact is, oh honey, that I can't pay my taxes
Oh make me wanna holler and throw up both my hands
Yeah, make me wanna holler and throw up both my hands

Aow!
Crime is increasing
Trigger-happy policing
Panic is spreading
God knows where we're heading

Ah baby, it make me wanna holler
They don't understand
Yeah, it make me wanna holler
They don't understand

(Scatting; musical interlude)

Mother, mother
Everybody thinks we're wrong
Who are they to judge us
Simply 'cause we wear our hair long

(C)1971 Motown Records, LP

friend
17-12-2007, 02:29 PM
well i was watching a youtube video the other day where Oprah was asking him about the changing of his skin color, and when he first told everyone about his vitiligo. He said point blank I am a black American. I am proud to be a black American. I am proud of my heritage. He did put it out there like that. Not simply not excluding it, but saying where he stood on it. He was also squashing other rumours that were being put out there at the time trying to make him seem as if he was trying to be something other than what he was. He went on record saying that was all bogus and there was no truth to it.

As for being a socially aware black artist, he is both socially aware and a black artist. He has to sing about his hair to be considered so? He has raised a lot of awareness on Africa, the world in general and the issues of all people, child abuse, poverty, TDCAU that is about what? I think he is being about as blunt as possibly can be in that song.

I'm not even going into the whole perceptions thing on eccentric or whatever. I don't see how any of that has to do one way or the other about whether he is socially aware. Michael is a messenger, and delivers messages absolutely on social issues in his music. I dont see how anyone could challenge that.

MJJChichi
17-12-2007, 02:34 PM
Are any of us 'socially aware' ?? When was the last time we did something for our respective communities ??

Socially aware in what sense ?? How do any of us define socially aware ?? What exactly is the criteria ??

I consider myself 'socially aware' ... the things I do, that allow me to feel worthy of that description, may not be things that any of you do. Any of you, that feel you are 'socially aware' may do things, that I do not. That does not make you or I, 'socially UNaware'.

To make an argument or discussion on such a matter, it might help to define some parameters of what it means to be, 'Socially Aware'. Otherwise, we are just talking around one another's differing opinions or expectations of others.

troubleman84
17-12-2007, 02:35 PM
And in all honesty, this is one of the singers Mike learned vocal techniques (and how to write serious lyrics) from:

Living for the City
(S. Wonder)

A boy is born in hard-time Mississippi
Surrounded by four walls that ain't so pretty
His parents give him love and affection
To keep him strong, moving in the right direction
Living just enough, just enough for the city

His father works somedays for fourteen hours
And you can bet he barely makes a dollar
His mother goes to scrub the floors for many
And you can best believe she hardly gets a penny
Living just enough, just enough for the city

(Scatting)

His sister's black but she is sho nuff pretty
Her skirt is shrot but Lord her legs are sturdy
To walk to school, she's gotta get up early
Her clothes are old but never are they dirty
Living just enough, just enough for the city

Her brother's smart, he's got more sense than many
His patience's long but soon he won't have any
To find a job is like a haystack needle
Because where he lives, they "don't use colored people"
Living just enough, just enough for the city

(Scatting)

Living just enough for the city (15X)

(Spoken dialogue: the man arrives from Mississippi to New York City and ends up getting mistaken for a drug dealer who hands him some cocaine and is arrested by the cops later sentenced to ten years for prison despite his not guilty plea; the song takes him out of jail and into homelessness)

His hair is long
His feet are hard and gritty
He spends his life walking the streets of New York City
He's almost dead from breathing in air pollution
He tried to vote but to him there's no solution living just enough
Just enough for the city

I know you hear inside my voice of sorrow
And that it motivates you to live a better tomorrow
This place is cruel, the world couldn't be much colder
If we don't change, the world would soon be over
Living just enough, stop giving just enough for the city

(Scatting and harmonizing to the end...)

(C)1973 Black Bull Music, Co.

troubleman84
17-12-2007, 02:37 PM
Heh, I don't know about you (I think all things considered the words "socially aware" are a tricky thing) but this thread is giving me the excuses to post social commentary. :lol: :D

I think Mike's socially aware because he sings it in his songs that do have awareness in them. But I hate getting into "arguments" about it.

Poefiend
17-12-2007, 02:45 PM
Being socially aware shouldnt have to do with skin color
everyone needs to be socially aware in some aspect
regardless of race, religion and or creed.
all the mish mosh in between is just hogwash
its sort of judgmental to say the least...
sort of a damned if you dont or damned if you do thang?

SoS
17-12-2007, 03:48 PM
u do realize that even MANY fans don't realize insurance paid the family? there was NO WAY insurance would have paid UNLESS feldman changed the allegations to simple negligence. please don't think it was anything smart or savvy on mj's part...it was all feldman. I did not say MJ"s savvyness had anything to do with it. I'm saying that Feldman did the ONLY sensible thing TO DO since MJ was completely innocent, he wanted the nightmare to go away and all that family wanted in the first place was MONEY and when they got it they were happy as two chia pets in the jungle.



and yes, they saw him as a pedophile b/c this is the same man who went on PTL and said he would continue the sleep overs...the same guy who continued to be seen w/ kids (mainly the cascios) and the same dude who they felt was eccentric. Eccentrcity is not pedophelia and no they did not because nobody came flying out of the woodwork to try and charge him for what he said on PTL or for hanging out with kids.


no one here is holding on the pedophile notion... i can't tell


it's just how he was seen. by... oh ok....YOU and a few others here i guess



believe what u want but if reality and common sense are present, then parts of ur argument are just faulty.

he's socially aware but doesn't throw it out there like 'im proud to be black' cuz um...he doesn't exude it. u got india arie singing about her hair and the struggles black folks have been through just b/c of it, akon singing about and embracing africa, and common and mos def uplifting us and mike's singing about the break of dawn.


Michael comes from a world of idealism. You know this. Although his deepest roots are in the African American culture he GREW UP in a WHITE AFFLUENT culture AND a Jewish community. His only wish has ever and always been that there is no such thing as racism. As someone not black pointed out: "the focus on race is what creates racism."

Maybe Michael was placed in such a multi-cultural setting in his life so that he could demonstrate that.

Every artists contribution is valid - including Michael's. They are not all meant to be the same.

Some black artists express specific frustrations with the black experience and many don't. Does Whitney Houston sing about black hair? Are her fans ragging her about it? I dunno, maybe you don't either. I"m just asking. Did Luther Vandross keep his fist in the air on his songs? Do his die hard fans take away from his contribution because he didn't? Just asking.


yes, the save the world songs that appear on every album might inspire but it doesn't resonate w/ me.....the line he sang in '2300 j st.' when he said he'd always find his way back home....kind of wishful thinking or song filler imo. 'Home' is where the heart is. Michael's heart has always been with his family. I see no delimma there. From what I heard from the people of Gary, he is always so full of pride when he's there and is so relaxed, they say, like a whole 'nother Michael Jackson - completely down to earth, relaxed and at home.


carry on

well ok :lol:

Also, I don't know how y'all think Michael could have been awarded by an African Embassy in 2004 if he'd been doing nothing for African people all this time. He even went further and decided to meet with congress. Now you will tell me this doesn't 'count' because... (something) I suppose - what - because he was going through the trial and wanted the support of black people all of a sudden because without it he would have.............................................. .......WHAT.


http://www.kaisernetwork.org/daily_reports/rep_index.cfm?hint=1&DR_ID=22984


Speaking of Stevie Wonder, oh and political candidates - - while we're dong song lyrics that express 'awareness' let me point out this song which was the first such song Michael and his brothers showed up on from the 70s ...


but before we get to those...I have a question.

In Michael's song, "They" Don't Care About Us - who do you suppose the "THEY" was..?..and who do you suppose the "US" was?

Here's Stevie and the J-5 joint:

We are amazed but not amused by
all the things you say
That you'll do. Though much
concerned but not involved
With decisions that are made by you.

But we are sick and tired of hearing your song
Tellin' how you are gonna
change right from wrong
'Cause if you really want to hear our views:
You haven't done nothin'

It's not to cool to be ridiculed
but you brought this up
On yourself. The world is tired of pacifiers
We want the truth and nothing else
yeah.

And we are sick and tired of hearing your song

Jackson five
join along with me
Sing: Doo doo wab
Hey hey hey
Doo doo wab waw waw waw waw doo doo dab
Naw naw naw doo doo wab
go go go
Doo doo wab bum bum bum doo doo wab

He would not care to wake up to the night-mare
That's becomin' real life
but when mislead
Who knows a person's mind can turn
as cold as ice - um hum

Why do you keep on makin' us hear your song

Tellin' us how you are changin right from wrong
'Cause if your really want to hear our views:
You haven't done nothin'
yeah.

Doo doo wab waw waw waw doo doo dab

troubleman84
17-12-2007, 03:58 PM
Save the Children
(R. Benson/A. Cleveland/M. Gaye, Jr.)

I just wanna ask a question
Who really cares to save a world in despair?
Who really cares?

There'll come a time
When the world won't be singing
Flowers won't grow
And the bells won't be ringing
Who really cares
Who is willing to try to save a world
That is destined to die?

When I look at the world
It fills me with sorrow
Children today will really suffer tomorrow
Oh what a shame
Such a bad way to live
Who is to blame when we can't stop living?

Live, live, live for life
But let live everybody
Live life for the children, ah, for the children
Oh (let's save the children, let's save all the children)

Save the babies
Save the babies
And if you wanna love, you got to
Save the babies
Save the babies
All of the children...

But who really cares
Who's willing to try, yeah
To save a world
Yeah, save our sweet world
To save a world that is destined to die

Ah, oh, la-la-la-la, la-la-la
Oh, ah, dig it everybody...

(C)1971 Motown Record Company, LP

SoS
17-12-2007, 03:59 PM
Heh, I don't know about you (I think all things considered the words "socially aware" are a tricky thing) but this thread is giving me the excuses to post social commentary. :lol: :D :lol: and song lyrics but its all good! Gave me an excuse to post mine.


I think Mike's socially aware because he sings it in his songs that do have awareness in them. But I hate getting into "arguments" about it.well, I don't mind disagreements - I think it lends some buzz to a discussion board - don't worry Timmy - we're not tryin to hurt eachother, I promise ;) :D :lol: (sweet lullo thing, worryin bout fighting breaking out :lol: )

SoS
17-12-2007, 04:02 PM
Save the Children
(R. Benson/A. Cleveland/M. Gaye, Jr.)

I just wanna ask a question
Who really cares to save a world in despair?
Who really cares?

There'll come a time
When the world won't be singing
Flowers won't grow
And the bells won't be ringing
Who really cares
Who is willing to try to save a world
That is destined to die?

When I look at the world
It fills me with sorrow
Children today will really suffer tomorrow
Oh what a shame
Such a bad way to live
Who is to blame when we can't stop living?

Live, live, live for life
But let live everybody
Live life for the children, ah, for the children
Oh (let's save the children, let's save all the children)

Save the babies
Save the babies
And if you wanna love, you got to
Save the babies
Save the babies
All of the children...

But who really cares
Who's willing to try, yeah
To save a world
Yeah, save our sweet world
To save a world that is destined to die

Ah, oh, la-la-la-la, la-la-la
Oh, ah, dig it everybody...

(C)1971 Motown Record Company, LP

Thank you for these! And this is what MJ grew up on. Two of his Motown mentors did it - it was emblazened into his consciousness. The Commondores followed suit with Zoom and Sweet Love (and nobody's ragging on them for not having their fist up in the air all the daggone time either) and other groups of the day sang about "saving the world" - after this song came out. Great choice. Great song!!

SoS
17-12-2007, 04:23 PM
Troubleman I meant you no disrespect by saying (sweet) lullo thing - I know you're a full grown man, just sweet and kind - I'm from the South, please excuse me.

so-so I mean you none if I seem to imply you think of him as that - its just that sometimes to me you do, and/or I'm not clear where you're coming from - on the other hand - I understand your anger and frustration that somebody as amazing as MJ isn't carrying your personal torch.

troubleman84
17-12-2007, 04:26 PM
Ha, it's all good, SoS.

Datsymay
17-12-2007, 04:48 PM
Michael Jackson, being the high achiever that he is and setting standards in the music industry is all that I need for black awareness. I need nothing else. Him standing tall and strong amidst the darts and the disadvantage, him refusing to bow and to give up, that is inspiring for me and should be for everyone no matter what coluor they are, It would be a shame if a black person doesn't get inspred by Michael Jackson, but that is there loss. MJ inspres me to reach for my dream. Thanks MJ. I do not need to see someone shouting black power to be inspred by them.

MJJChichi
17-12-2007, 05:00 PM
Heh, I don't know about you (I think all things considered the words "socially aware" are a tricky thing) but this thread is giving me the excuses to post social commentary. :lol: :D

I think Mike's socially aware because he sings it in his songs that do have awareness in them. But I hate getting into "arguments" about it.

you don't like getting into arguments... but you love to argue ;) admit it.

Anyone's level of social awareness, the action(non-action) one takes with regard to that awareness ... comes down to is your own personal situation. If all you have to offer is time, you volunteer in your community. Or you are vocal to anyone who will listen, you educate those around you ... casting a light on situations that may not be widely known & enlisting those individuals to help champion your cause.

Some may have extra money to donate to social organizations. Others may hold a position, that affords them the strength of those that back them in their endeavors. People with this status, often influence their colleages, friends and other people around them to follow their lead.

Michael is in a category all his own. He holds the power to influence people in the global community. His donations are far reaching ... call it social awareness or just plain charity to the world...

Think of it this way, if he had the money that he had donated over the years to UNCF and make a wish foundation alone, he could pay off neverland's mortgage or close to it. He may have never needed to mortgage it in the first place, had he not been soo giving.

Socially aware ... hell to the yeah !!

troubleman84
17-12-2007, 05:09 PM
you don't like getting into arguments... but you love to argue ;) admit it.

:p If I had been in one of my old screen names, yeah. :D

Soso Deaf
18-12-2007, 01:28 AM
fans will always see what they choose to see. if a man was accused, and the world was told he paid to make it go away, there were rumors of other payoffs and then u hear him say he still has sleep overs....and this is in '95...wht the hell else do people think? just b/c YOU don't feel that way doesn't mean america isn't being told he's a creepy man who does things to children.

whatever is whatever does....feldman did what was best for his client...and for himself, if only cochran had done the same.

u got white folks donating to africa. does that mean they can get an award too? seems like africa wasn't even important until white celebs started going there and doing charity...like what we did before didn't count. but the minute bono and angie go, it's a big deal.

the floacist
25-12-2007, 03:46 AM
I think the world had pretty much forgotten about the allegations of 93 in 2001 until the new sh!t hit the fan in after the Bashir interview 2003.
Sorry a bit ot but I had to say it.


quote]by 2001 the world thought of him as a pedophile

No, you took the words right out of my mouth; its the truth - The world did not think of him as a pedophile in 2001. That was the whole probelem. The plan had failed! The purpose of having the INSURANCE cover that matter was served in terms of removing that mess from public consciousness and so did his 'other' PR moves - by 2001 Michael had moved on and so did the world.[/quote]


You're kidding, right? No one forgot about 93 in 2001; I rediscovered MJ at that time and thats all I would hear about in the AOL message boards when I was surfing the internet for anything and everything MJ. I didn't know the scrutiny the public had for him was that severe or deep...and being in adolescence back in the early 90s, I had no idea what they were saying because I hadn't known what was going on at the time. All I remember was Michael giving a statement in a video, frantic and scared and I felt sorry for him even though I had no idea what he was talking about.

DuranDuran
22-08-2019, 08:47 PM
https://66.media.tumblr.com/6aa68c95d001017f0a86bc99ff7d5685/tumblr_pvevtz1Pep1rw606ko1_640.jpghttps://66.media.tumblr.com/f7cc7967124b3f31ba2cb181406419aa/tumblr_pvevtz1Pep1rw606ko2_250.jpg

NatureCriminal7896
08-09-2019, 04:56 PM
I would say he was. he loved his race and culture and he would speak out about it. but he also loved all people. i would say he was and still is a socially aware artist. one thing about Michael was he put everyone together not just his race and culture.

I think the reason why people think he wasn't socially black artist because the media make it seem he didn't like his race or culture. which is not true.

i'm African-American and most people i know who's also African-American look up to MJ. so yes.

DuranDuran
10-09-2019, 11:42 PM
I think the reason why people think he wasn't socially black artist because the media make it seem he didn't like his race or culture. which is not true.
I don't think it was just the media. Back in the 1980s, some black people considered artists like Mike, Lionel Richie, Prince, & Whitney Houston as selling out to crossover to the white audience. Whitney was even booed at the Soul Train Awards one year. That's also why people were surprised she married Bobby Brown, who was seen as as having a more "street" image. Also it could be that some wanted black performers to make Public Enemy & X Clan style protest songs. It was the same criticism earlier performers such as Sammy Davis Jr, Louis Armstrong, Nat King Cole, & Johnny Mathis got during their era.

mj_frenzy
11-09-2019, 09:27 AM
It is a fallacy to believe that Michael Jackson did not like his race or his culture.

I will bring up a very characteristic example: just take a look at his female leading ladies (in his music videos).

Michael Jackson chose mostly black ladies for his music videos to co-star with him.

Ola Ray (‘Thriller’), Naomi Campbell (‘In The Closet’), Iman (‘Remember The Time’), Kishaya Dudley (‘You Rock My World’) etc.

Also, Michael Jackson’s music aimed at all people, regardless of their race, ethnicity, or culture.

He wanted to get clearly that message across, so he decided to conclude his HIStory Tour by performing in South Africa in front of South African audiences, a place known for the big racial and ethnic diversity of its people.

dam2040
11-09-2019, 10:11 AM
They Don't Care About Us exists.. does it not?

DuranDuran
11-09-2019, 04:37 PM
I will bring up a very characteristic example: just take a look at his female leading ladies (in his music videos).

Michael Jackson chose mostly black ladies for his music videos to co-star with him.

Ola Ray (‘Thriller’), Naomi Campbell (‘In The Closet’), Iman (‘Remember The Time’), Kishaya Dudley (‘You Rock My World’) etc.
That is true. But he was mostly seen in his personal life with Brooke Shields, Tatum O' Neal, Lisa Marie Presley, Elizabeth Taylor, & other white women. At least that's what was shown in the mainstream media.


Also, Michael Jackson’s music aimed at all people, regardless of their race, ethnicity, or culture.
That's how he was promoted. There's many black artists who didn't get the mainstream promotion. It wasn't because their music was different from Mike's. The labels only promoted them to the R&B stations & audiences. Just like black acts who made rock music didn't get the same amount of promotion as white rock acts. They weren't heard on the rock radio stations other than maybe Jimi Hendrix and he was oldies. Very few women rock performers got on AOR radio too. They didn't sell like Bon Jovi, Def Leppard, or Ozzy Osbourne.

wonderouzmj
12-09-2019, 05:24 AM
Why does it matter? This post is beyond me!

DuranDuran
12-09-2019, 04:25 PM
Why does it matter? This post is beyond me!
This kind of attitude is one of the reasons all the MAGA white supremacists came out in the open (in the USA) with the election of Donald Trump. The idea of "let's ignore race, it doesn't matter, there's only the human race" does not work and probably comes from people in which their race/ethnicity does not affect their everyday life.

NatureCriminal7896
12-09-2019, 04:40 PM
While race don't matter when it comes to somethings. it does matter with somethings. that's why Michael messages were to love another. things what's going on in other places then just America. heal the world. save the children. peace of earth. save the earth.

83magic
16-09-2019, 12:32 PM
even when Michael gave interviews to black publications such as 'jet' in the late 70's, he always spoke of global unity. the idea that we are all one family wherever we come from. he was well travelled at a young age, and wanted to combine the best of what he had seen. the jacksons peacock logo was about integrating all colours into one. these beliefs were a part of his Jehovah's witness upbringing, and was also reflected in a multitude of songs. his diverse audience is evidence of this message. sadly, there's been an effort to erase all of this since his death, and use select moments to further a particular agenda. one that he wasn't around to witness.

yes, Michael spoke on black issues, but he wasn't a separatist.

DuranDuran
19-09-2019, 03:31 PM
yes, Michael spoke on black issues, but he wasn't a separatist.
So you're saying speaking about black issues or being Afrocentric automatically means being segregated? Soul Train didn't only have black performers & dancers on it although they were the main focus because many black artists did not get featured on the white music shows of the time. Public Enemy has toured with Anthrax and PE has a large white audience. Duran Duran remade 911 is A Joke.

83magic
19-09-2019, 08:20 PM
delete

NatureCriminal7896
19-09-2019, 09:33 PM
Michael did speak up about this stuff. a lot of times. after all he was born in the late 50's. he was around the civil rights era and everything. Michael message was about being one. we all a family. yes he care about his race and culture. but also cared about other people and cultures too. Michael loved his race and culture.

KOPV
20-09-2019, 02:55 AM
Is Michael socially aware? lol! yes he was, much of his catologue is about social awareness. I don't know one musical artist that dedicated as much work to social awareness.

NatureCriminal7896
20-09-2019, 04:28 AM
The user talking about social awareness the black community not the other communities. though, he did both. yes. he was very aware. BUT he also loved and cared about everyone. his message was peace on earth.

NatureCriminal7896
20-09-2019, 07:16 AM
You know looking back Michael did a lot of social awareness not only his own culture but others cultures as well. i wish more current artists today would do the samething. i mean there are artists that talk about it but they talk about only one or two times and never talk about it again then those one or two times but Michael talk about it more then any other artists.

bless him.

DuranDuran
20-09-2019, 05:15 PM
i mean there are artists that talk about it but they talk about only one or two times and never talk about it again then those one or two times but Michael talk about it more then any other artists.
Maybe they don't want to get the Bono (U2) "preaching" criticisms. Also with the current "cancel culture" generation, some performers don't want to lose fans by talking about things outside of their music/movies. People will drop performers today for any little thing. "We don't like what Brie Larson said about men, so let's give Captain Marvel negative reviews, even though we've never seen the movie". "I don't support Tom Cruise movies because he is into Scientology" :lmao:

NatureCriminal7896
20-09-2019, 06:48 PM
Michael was brave. maybe times are somewhat different now but his message in his music hasn't change at all. maybe that's why they kill him because he was powerful and brought a lot light and love into this world. because of him people had something smile for and look up to and hope for.

i like mike said smile and maybe tomorrow you will happy. if i said the quote right. L.O.V.E was his message. bless him i don't think we will never have another person like him again. :(

NatureCriminal7896
20-09-2019, 06:54 PM
The good people always go so fast. i miss the old days. i miss Michael. :(

DuranDuran
26-09-2019, 04:08 PM
Michael was brave. maybe times are somewhat different now but his message in his music hasn't change at all. maybe that's why they kill him because he was powerful and brought a lot light and love into this world. because of him people had something smile for and look up to and hope for.
Wouldn't they get performers that have songs with a more protest or militant message such Rage Against The Machine, Public Enemy, Ice Cube, The Clash, X Clan, etc. Same for movie director Spike Lee with movies like Do The Right Thing, Malcolm X, BlacKkKlansman, etc. Also gospel music has positive messages.

wednesday
27-09-2019, 07:43 AM
Wouldn't they get performers that have songs with a more protest or militant message such Rage Against The Machine, Public Enemy, Ice Cube, The Clash, X Clan, etc. Same for movie director Spike Lee with movies like Do The Right Thing, Malcolm X, BlacKkKlansman, etc. Also gospel music has positive messages.

No. Because all these performers were not and are not nearly as popular and global like the King Of Pop was and still is. He met world leaders, had the Heal the World Foundation and truly everyone in the world knew Michael Jackson's message. No one has had Michael's reach. I would also add that the others you listed are still regular dudes, whereas Michael Jackson was different. He lived what he preached, too.

DuranDuran
27-09-2019, 04:20 PM
No. Because all these performers were not and are not nearly as popular and global like the King Of Pop was and still is. He met world leaders, had the Heal the World Foundation and truly everyone in the world knew Michael Jackson's message. No one has had Michael's reach. I would also add that the others you listed are still regular dudes, whereas Michael Jackson was different. He lived what he preached, too.
How about the Pope? There's lots of Catholics in the world. Maybe Jesus Christ over the Pope. People have followed Jesus (and Buddha) for many centuries. Anyway, I think Mike's situation is more the ATV catalog more than whatever his message was.

DuranDuran
29-09-2019, 09:27 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYEXHGmQPlU

NatureCriminal7896
03-10-2019, 05:34 AM
I find it funny when people claimed to be MJ fans but don't follow his message. his message wasn't a bad message and that everyone can do. he basically was trying to save us. that this point race doesn't matter. our lives and our earth matters. i'm african- american and i still care about others. so just because my life isn't perfect doesn't mean shouldn't care about others?

bless Michael and his family to keep things like heal the world and donating to charities.

DuranDuran
30-10-2019, 07:02 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vtmspe1_Ic4

DuranDuran
31-05-2020, 03:03 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocyoNPEhJHc

SmoothCriminal1995
02-06-2020, 01:55 PM
Absolutely. Of course Michael Jackson was a socially aware black artist.
Just because he transcended racial barriers doesn't mean he forgot about where he came from or who he is

Hess
03-06-2020, 06:15 AM
I think so yes. Many of the songs he wrote is clearly a shout out to society about injustice etc.

You Were There - of course it's a tribute song, but it shows MJ is aware of the racism black people had to deal with.
TDCAU - not only black people of course, but also.

Many of his speaches.