Michael 3rd Most Legendary

[azza]

Hell I can't even say in america elvis has that INFLUENCE. Sure, people LOVE LOVE LOVE them some elvis (not me personally ) LOL...but as far as VISUAL influence...I don't see people out there imitating his style of dance too much, his style of preforming, his style of dressing every which way. When it comes to VISUAL in-yo-face influence i think even in america MJ wins hands down. If you turn on the tv and watch a popular artist now, are they wearing a modern take on elvis' clothes, or singing in an 'elvis'-like way? Or any of that? No. You see people taking on MICHAEL'S style, HIS singing and dancing, HIS influence on performance.

yep,i agree with you for the most part there.good points.michael clearly beats the **** out of elvis across the board.

but im from ireland & alot of farmers,pub landlords,taxi drivers & friends sight elvis as their hero.im worn out from this.so goodnight ya'll

 

[wannabestartinsomthin21]

Look, I don't have beef with you. I just was defending myself as you were yourself. As I accused you of editing your post, you accused me of making it up to support a weak argument. So I was simply clarifying myself.

I don't feel you addressed my points, that's all. You went on and on about Elvis being in the army and being a good person. But you didn't explain to me how it is he is more famous, more commercially successful and more influential then Michael, or even as. You made a few points in the beggining, which I addressed, and then the whole thing just fell apart.

Anyway, like I said, I don't have a problem with you at all. I'm just discussing this notion that Elvis is somehow as or more legendary then Michael.

 

[azza]

jesus,where do you get your stamina from.im half dead lol.

listen i agree with you that michael is #1.its without question.i have never argued that elvis was bigger or better.not once.not once.not here.not ever.

my point was that i could see why he would win a poll like this.he's left a huge mark in my part of the world.thats all im saying.i like the guy & respect him.

theirs nobody saying he did it bigger,better than michael.no one has.no one will.

what point or points do you feel i have not addressed? & i will address it for you.anything anything in particular?

 

[wannabestartinsomthin21]

I get it from being crazy, lol.

I can't accurately pin point it or remake my arguments. I don't have THAT much energy. Just in terms of Michael having a wider impact, in terms of how the game is played, from concert and tour staging, to musical and visual impact, the way musical film is done, the markets which have been influenced, such as Asia, India and Russia. Album sales, the array of artists influenced by Michael over a long line of genres. No one has been able to come up with anything to prove that Elvis has had that much impact or has influenced that many people or changed the way music and performing arts is promoted and executed the way Michael has, and its because he hasn't.

 

[azza]

I get it from being crazy, lol.

I can't accurately pin point it or remake my arguments. I don't have THAT much energy. Just in terms of Michael having a wider impact, in terms of how the game is played, from concert and tour staging, to musical and visual impact, the way musical film is done, the markets which have been influenced, such as Asia, India and Russia. Album sales, the array of artists influenced by Michael over a long line of genres. No one has been able to come up with anything to prove that Elvis has had that much impact or has influenced that many people or changed the way music and performing arts is promoted and executed the way Michael has, and its because he hasn't.

i have not stated ONCE in any of my posts the elvis was bigger,better,more influential than michael jackson!

NOT ONE TIME ON THIS THREAD HAVE I SAID THAT! GO BACK,HAVE A READ I FIND WHERE IVE SAID THAT!

IVE SAID ELVIS HAD A BIG IMPACT IN MUSIC,& I COULD UNDERSTAND WHY.HE WAS IN THE ARMY,HE WAS A CHRISTIAN,HE HAD A BLACK VOICE,HE DIED YOUNG,HE WAS A FAMILY MAN,HE LOVED HIS MOTHER,HE LOVED HIS FRIENDS,HE LOVED HIS FANS,HE CHANGED THEY WAY MUSIC WAS PERFORMED ON TV (ED SULLIVAN SHOW)!

NOT ONCE,NOT NOWHERE DID I SAY HE WAS "BIGGER" OR "BETTER" THAN MICHAEL JACKSON!

DO I THINK HE HAD AS MUCH INFLUENCE? YES.IN THE MUSIC I LISTEN TO,IN THE WAY I VIEW POP CULTURE,IN MY EVERYDAY LIFE!

DO I THINK THEIRS MORE ELVIS IMATATER'S IN THE WORLD? YES.IN VEGAS,CHINA,JAPAN & IN MY TINY DOT OF A COUNTRY IRELAND!

DO I THINK HE'S RELEVANT TO MUSIC TODAY? YES.IN THE TYPE OF FOLK/POP/ROCK ARTISTS/BANDS I LISTEN TO.

DOES ANY OF THAT MEAN I THINK MICHAELS IMPACT IS SMALLER? NO.NOT ONE BIT.NOBODY HAS EVERY BONDED TO OR CONNECTED IN MUSICAL TERMS AS MUCH AS MICHAEL JACKSON!

CASE CLOSED.END OF STORY.NITE NITE.PEACE OUT.

 

[wannabestartinsomthin21]

No need to yell, sh**.

My whole argument with you was hinged on me thinking you made the statement that Elvis was more influential.

His personality has nothing to do with his artistic standing. So I don't see your reasoning for bringing that up.

You may think he's had as much influence musically, but I fail to see it myself. He shook his hips on TV and you say it changed the musical landscape. Maybe in terms of what was seen as okay for television. But I made the argument that Michael has had a far wider and lasting impact by changing not only television, but touring, staging, artist expectations, film, dance, vocals, promotion, which countries were seen as viable in the music market, etc... Elvis is oft imitated by impersonators. In terms of actual imitation from other artist's, people who are payed musical acts, with regards to serious imitation in their own art, or what they like to call art, Michael is far more influential, both musically and performance wise.

 

[azza]

No need to yell, sh**.

My whole argument with you was hinged on me thinking you made the statement that Elvis was more influential.

His personality has nothing to do with his artistic standing. So I don't see your reasoning for bringing that up.

You may think he's had as much influence musically, but I fail to see it myself. He shook his hips on TV and you say it changed the musical landscape. Maybe in terms of what was seen as okay for television. But I made the argument that Michael has had a far wider and lasting impact by changing not only television, but touring, staging, artist expectations, film, dance, vocals, promotion, which countries were seen as viable in the music market, etc... Elvis is oft imitated by impersonators. In terms of actual imitation from other artist's, people who are payed musical acts, with regards to serious imitation in their own art, or what they like to call art, Michael is far more influential, both musically and performance wise.

i think personality has alot to do with it.i mean both men are cultural icons?

with elvis shaking his hips it changed what was exceptable on tv as their was a national out cry & it stirred huge debate.

as far as television,touring,staging,film,dance,promotion,which countries were seen as viable in the music market? yeah,michael did all that.no doubt.i agree with you 100% your on the money.

i think in terms of impersonators you'll probably find elvis has more than anyone,but with a huge degree of tacky & cheapness to it.

i think the jackson impersonators although less,on the whole are much brighter & better entertainers.jackson has bonded with his fans on a human level like no other artist.

i don't know if this link works but its about the elvis years in the army www.elvis.com.au if not it can be googled.

the other thing about the elvis fans,is that they are simply dying out as time moves on.i think he had a massive impact during his career to the extent that jackson has now.

at the time lennon/mc'chartney were huge elvis fans,lennon more so.they were the biggest pop group in the world & although its not here nor there,seeing elvis for a young lennon & goerge harrison on tv made these kids go out & by guitars (even though elvis knew all but 3 chords lol).

 

[Peter_Pan]

peter_pan,this was my original post.this is what i feel about elvis in a nutshell.

i disagree though that elvis was an 'america only' legend.he's absolutely massive in japan & china & he had a huge affect in europe in the 60's & 70's in the showband era.in my country (ireland) you couldnt get elvis records,so the showbands would dress like him,sing like him & perform his songs in the dance halls.in england cliff richard was marketed as 'englands answer to elvis'.he's changed his image somewhat since.
my point is that elvis is relevant in the 21 century for leaving his mark on modern pop culture .simple as.elvis "is" the most imitated artist in the world,probably 2nd to michael jackson? im not even sure if mj is 2nd?
& in this particular poll elvis was voted (by the people) #1.& i don't have a problem with that,because in my life i see the influence elvis has left on music everyday & im happy michael came in at 3rd place,although i would have loved him in even 2nd.
i cannot say much more than that,other than i don't think i should have to justify or defend the fact that i like elvis.
again michael in my eyes is #1 period.he's been the biggest influence on my life & by far the best.

off topic,i was in india in 2000 and i loved the place:lol:

Ofcourse.. Elvis is famous in Asia (India, China, Japan) but so are the Beatles, Queen, Madonna, Prince, even Britney for that matter.. But my point is who is most well know..

The point again is MJ is most famous worldwide.. but that does not mean Elvis is not.. he is probably one of the most famous entertainers in ASIA, AFRICA.. but the Most famous is MJ..

 

[Bob George]

I haven't responded to this thread in a short while, but my how it's grown. I'd like to address some comments made a few pages back in response to my comments about fans' obsessions with record sales.

All record sales prove is who had the most promotion. They are no indicative of actual musical talent. The fact that the Spice Girls and the Backstreet Boys have higher sales than Stevie Wonder and Marvin Gaye is evidence of this. The Spice Girls have sold more records than Stevie Wonder, but I think a lot of people would disagree with you if you said that means they're better than him. Furthermore, sales are not always an accurate way of telling who is more popular anyway.

For example, you have artist A and artist B. They both release an album in the same week. Artist A's record is sold like any average music album is. In music stores and online stores. But Artist B's record has a major marketing campaign and as well as being sold in music stores and online stores, it is distributed to major chain supermarkets and department stores. The record company also sets up promotions with radio stations and TV stations to give out free copies of the album.

So everyone who bought artist A's album actually wanted to buy it. But a lot of people who have artist B's album got it free because they won a radio or TV competition, and half the sales figures are for albums not actually sold to people but distributed to supermarkets and department stores. So probably 50% of the people actually wanted to buy it.

At the end of the year or so, artist A's album has sold 10 million copies and artist B's album has sold 20 million copies. But all 10 million people wanted to buy album A but not all 20 million people wanted to buy album B and probably 50% of those 20 million weren't sold, just distributed to major chain supermarkets and department stores.

So in closing, record sales mean squat.

 

[wannabestartinsomthin21]

i think personality has alot to do with it.i mean both men are cultural icons?

with elvis shaking his hips it changed what was exceptable on tv as their was a national out cry & it stirred huge debate.

as far as television,touring,staging,film,dance,promotion,which countries were seen as viable in the music market? yeah,michael did all that.no doubt.i agree with you 100% your on the money.

i think in terms of impersonators you'll probably find elvis has more than anyone,but with a huge degree of tacky & cheapness to it.

i think the jackson impersonators although less,on the whole are much brighter & better entertainers.jackson has bonded with his fans on a human level like no other artist.

i don't know if this link works but its about the elvis years in the army www.elvis.com.au if not it can be googled.

the other thing about the elvis fans,is that they are simply dying out as time moves on.i think he had a massive impact during his career to the extent that jackson has now.

at the time lennon/mc'chartney were huge elvis fans,lennon more so.they were the biggest pop group in the world & although its not here nor there,seeing elvis for a young lennon & goerge harrison on tv made these kids go out & by guitars (even though elvis knew all but 3 chords lol).

No one's denying Elvis was an icon and influential. I just think in terms of overall impact and influence, he isn't as much as is Michael. There may be more impersonators, but in terms of actual recording and performing artists who do it professionally, I think Michael is much more widely imitated.

Elvis inlisting in the army was very admierable. He didn't engage in combat though, so at least I was right about that. I think what you're describing is charisma, which I consider a talent in and of itself. That's different than someone who does good deeds. Elvis had a lot of charisma. So does Michael. But bringing up the quality of character doesn't, in my view, speak to artistic achievements and noteriety. Charisma does.

Michael's done more good then just about anyone, but it doesn't support why his career is the most legendary, so I don't bring it up in a discussion like this. If we want to talk about their quaity of character, then those things would be a good point of discussion.

 

[J5master]

yep,i agree with you for the most part there.good points.michael clearly beats the **** out of elvis across the board.

but im from ireland & alot of farmers,pub landlords,taxi drivers & friends sight elvis as their hero.im worn out from this.so goodnight ya'll

Well yeah people sight elvis as a hero, but is his INFLUENCE in today's industry strong? Nooot so much. People love elvis though. You have your vegas impersonators there...everyone has an elvis cd...but in all countries most artists are gonna say they were influenced most by MJ as far as their music/dancing career.

 

[suspicious_mind]

Michael Jackson changed the industry forever and has influenced heavily how music is made and definently how music is promoted, Michaels fan base in comparison is not only HUGE but strong and damn diverse,nd wasnt Elvis eventually seen as a joke at one point? from what I know while he was alive he wasnt shown much respect until he had died...

As for MJ's rep i would have to say it is pretty bad, but if Elvis had to go through what MJ did he would of had been finnished because the media have never targeted a singer the same way they have against MJ, the only other place where I see them spouting such deep propaganda is in middle eastern politics...

and as for my question, its a very good question actually because if singers cant sell there music then they wont have much of a career, they dont have a career in music they aint gonna make music and because there is no music who is gonna listen to their music when there isnt any they would just end up being just another guy called "bob" who lives down the street who no one really cares about :wacko:

I think it should be noted that what makes Michael Jackson such a legend is his achievements, his sales being one of them also remember that his achievements are many and very impressive...

I think Michael Jackson is a legend. No doubt about that. I just dont think hes more of one than Elvis, and im obviously not the only one considering the article and many other things. Here in America im gonna be honest i dont know 3 people i can name that like Michael Jackson. (Michael has a bigger fanbase outside of America.) But people flock from all over the world just to see Graceland each and everyday. Elvis has been gone over 30 years and still his record sales are HUGE.
But record sales arent even revelant to this cause thats not what makes someone legendary, if it was then Sinatra wouldnt have even been considered.
Elvis was NEVER a 'joke' in his lifetime. The only time people started making fun of him was after he died and the way he died, and thats only cause people are a$$holes. After he died alot got found out but thats only cause of mistakes he made, and the so called 'friends' he had around him. He never was hated or had a tarnished rep when he was alive. EVER.
In this Country, the most powerful Country in the world, Elvis is number ONE and no one can take that away from him.
If Michael is in another Country then alright. American loyalty in the music industry belongs to Elvis Presley.

 

[AngieJ]

It all depends on who you're talking too. That's why I don't take these polls that seriously. Some people think Elvis is the greatest thing ever and other folks think MJ is. I'm also an Elvis fan, I don't know too many people that are that high on him. It's kinda against the law to say you like Elvis if you're African American. :lol: Alot of people I know just see him as the dude the media overrates. I always see people joking about the Elvis fans dying off and laughing over the fact that no matter what Priscilla and EPE do they can't get young kids into him.

I don't mean to keep this tired thread going, but I just had to add my 2 cents because some were going on as if Elvis is topping TRL these days.

 

[Bob George]

You do know that in 2002 he had a #1 hit single (Little Less Conversation) and album (Elvis: 30 #1 hits) 25 years after his death, don't you? That was 6 years ago, true, but it kind of defeats your statement that he's not topping charts these days.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

You do know that in 2002 he had a #1 hit single (Little Less Conversation)

to be fair that was a remix and used in a huge advertising campaign for nike during the world cup if i remember right.

at the end of the day i hope he sells because its mj whos will be making alot of money out of a big % of his songs lol and thats the biggest irony of it all.

 

[The_Glove]

Everyone liked the JXL remix version of Little less conversation, Because it was the tune to the Nike adverts.

Im sure i brought that. Hmmm must of lost it.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Everyone liked the JXL remix version of Little less conversation, Because it was the tune to the Nike adverts.

exactly. it had very little to with it being elvis abliet remixed. its not really something that can be used as a example

 

[suspicious_mind]

to be fair that was a remix and used in a huge advertising campaign for nike during the world cup if i remember right.

at the end of the day i hope he sells because its mj whos will be making alot of money out of a big % of his songs lol and thats the biggest irony of it all.

Ull say anything wont you? :lol:
Fact remains that he had a number one song and number one album YEARS after his death.
If you think its a good thing that MJ makes money off Elvis then....thats weird. Wait till the day someone buys Michaels songs. See if you think its so funny then.
Anyways im done with this thread - its getting silly now. FACT remains Elvis is number one. And always will be.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Ull say anything wont you?

just stating the facts of what happened with that song in the UK . its not saying anything.

you think its a good thing that MJ makes money off Elvis then....thats weird. Wait till the day someone buys Michaels songs. See if you think its so funny then.

.

why would it be weird.mj and his company have made some great buys over the last few months from famous music to the leiber/stoller cat.and as an mj supporter i celebrate that just like any other fan does.if that upsets you then thats the problem when u dont write/own your own music ala EP.MJ owns all his songs and unless he sells them he will remain owner. MJ had the foresight to not only own his own songs but buy other cats because thats where the real money is to made.unfortunaly it u dont write "your" songs and keep ownership u have very little real claim over them. ie elvis. unfortunaly ppl like otis blackwell suffered aswell as stated by MJ.hence why he gave songs back to ppl such as little richard when he had the chance.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

But remember that the other 2 are dead so inevitably do better in these polls and considering the 15 years of negative press for Mike, I think 3rd is a pretty good result.

very true aswell. dying always puts ppl up on a pedistal more. look at cobain for eg i remember back in 95 paul lester a journo and big mj fan said in so many words that mj would have been better off dying after bad cause then he would have been made into a god instead of the media decided to try and destroy him instead. obviously not a nice thought but u get the point. plus of course sinarta and EP being the blue eyed boys of america where anything dodgy is swept under the rug inorder to keep the image going.mjs always had to fight alot of ppl in the USA for alsorts of reasons

 

[lilsusie]

That's exactly what Sammy Davis Jr. said about Michael lol



Yes! I've heard in a documentary that before Thriller nobody would have ever thought that seven singles would do well in charts. Who was the first to perform in front of 4.5 million people in 130 concerts? Who was the first who donated all his money from concert performances to his own-founded charity? Who was the first to make/create/pay the greatest video of all time? Who was the one who created the biggest selling album of all time? Nobody would ever beat his records!

None other than Michael Joseph Jackson, the greatest of the greatest!!

Here in America im gonna be honest i dont know 3 people i can name that like Michael Jackson. (Michael has a bigger fanbase outside of America.) But people flock from all over the world just to see Graceland each and everyday. Elvis has been gone over 30 years and still his record sales are HUGE.

that's because the media tried to portray him as a freak!!
and the media praised ep and keep on raising him like a god!!
priscilla was only 14 when she was with ep(a thirty something), and he's a drug addict who died from drug overdose. do you see the media ever talk about all these?

If it's MJ I can be sure when MJ dies the media will still bring out the accusations which had an innocent man suffering and tried to make it sound like he's guilty.

I was a hater before coz i read and believe what's in the news. And there are many people out there who's like me.
all these are due to the media's biase against him, tried to make him look like a freak!
and tried to make fun of him in anyway they feel like, and that's even when he's doing something good!!
when he came up with a charity single, the media said he's doing it for money. I bet if it was ep, the media will try to praise him the best way they could.
The media twisted and distorted everything when it comes to MJ.
i don't think ep went through even a fraction of what MJ has been through.
besides, he has more and bigger musical achievements than ep ever had.
i know my post is gonna be ignored but i need to let this out.

 

[Chaos]

FACT remains Elvis is number one. And always will be.

i dont get that Michael has done so much more then he has and out does him in so many different ways both in success AND with his creativity...

 

[suspicious_mind]

that's because the media tried to portray him as a freak!!
and the media praised ep and keep on raising him like a god!!
priscilla was only 14 when she was with ep(a thirty something), and he's a drug addict who died from drug overdose. do you see the media ever talk about all these?

If it's MJ I can be sure when MJ dies the media will still bring out the accusations which had an innocent man suffering and tried to make it sound like he's guilty.

I was a hater before coz i read and believe what's in the news. And there are many people out there who's like me.
all these are due to the media's biase against him, tried to make him look like a freak!
and tried to make fun of him in anyway they feel like, and that's even when he's doing something good!!
when he came up with a charity single, the media said he's doing it for money. I bet if it was ep, the media will try to praise him the best way they could.
The media twisted and distorted everything when it comes to MJ.
i don't think ep went through even a fraction of what MJ has been through.
besides, he has more and bigger musical achievements than ep ever had.
i know my post is gonna be ignored but i need to let this out.

Well since you said it was gonna be ignored i had to come in here and proove u wrong :lol:
First of all i dont see why it makes sense to bring Elvis' mistakes out on here - he is gone...but i guess its pretty easy to say bad things about someone who cant defend themselves huh?
No matter what happened in that trial with Michael America will always remember it. They all definately believe he did the first incident cause it never went to court. Sure we all on here that are fans of Michael dont believe he did it cause we dont feed into the lies that are told, but come on now...he was accused of child molestation TWICE - that dosent sit well in America.
The mistakes Elvis made in his life only affected himself. It didnt affect anyone around him. And if you were to know anything about what happened with Elvis and Priscilla you would know that he never had a sexual relationship with her until he married her.
Even if none of that had happened with Michael and the trial and the first incident Elvis wouldve still been ahead of Michael as legendary here in America. Elvis is the perfect American dream - he came from nothing and then had everything. He changed the face of Rock and Roll.
And as i said before a few million pages back - Michael changed the face of pop music and is a legend in that arena. Its just Michael isnt as popular here in America as he once was. Im not saying its right or okay or a good thing, im just stating the obvious.

i dont get that Michael has done so much more then he has and out does him in so many different ways both in success AND with his creativity...

Opinions vary

 

[elusive moonwalker]

anyway i thought garth brooks was the biggest seller in the USA when figures came out not to long ago. at the end of the day the media brainwash the public when it comes to mj. and put ppl push as EP and FS on pedastal and make them out to be gods and any wrong doing they did or were involved in get brushed under the carpet. we know the agenda and the public arent intrested in the facts. just as if the media had decided back in 93 that mj was a victim of blackmail ala the taped phonecalls they would have supported him and gone after the chandlers. but of course that doesnt fit with the agenda and thatwas certainly shown during the attempted lynching of 03-05. some of the gen public only think they way they do because the media on many subjects decides what the public think by brainwashing them with "facts" that support their agenda.

Even if none of that had happened with Michael and the trial and the first incident Elvis wouldve still been ahead of Michael as legendary here in America. Elvis is the perfect American dream - he came from nothing and then had everything. He changed the face of Rock and Roll.

well im sure we know why. EP was the white boy who made good taking black music and making it suitable for the white folks hence the changing of history that he some how created rock and roll and forget about the likes of Ike turner etc. at the end of the day the wolrd is bigger than the USA and the agendas that go on there.mj will never beable to compete withthat as we have seen so he did the best next thing. owns elvis songs and ****** his daughter.

 

[Chaos]

Opinions vary

if you look at the statistics

 

[Bob George]

to be fair that was a remix and used in a huge advertising campaign for nike during the world cup if i remember right.

at the end of the day i hope he sells because its mj whos will be making alot of money out of a big % of his songs lol and thats the biggest irony of it all.

Only the Leiber and Stoller songs. They didn't write "A Little Less Conversation".

And to be fair, Billie Jean was also used in a huge advertising campaign. So is that not a legitimate hit either?

 

[suspicious_mind]

so he did the best next thing. owns elvis songs and ****** his daughter.

Lovely...:mello:
And you still dont know why Elvis is more legendary after that kind of statement? lol

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Only the Leiber and Stoller songs. They didn't write "A Little Less Conversation".

And to be fair, Billie Jean was also used in a huge advertising campaign. So is that not a legitimate hit either?

yeah the leiber and stoller collection plus others that were already owned by mj al suspious minds etc just talking in general not directly about that song.

what campaign was BJ used in cause i dont remember at all. certainly nothing like the conversation remix.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

And you still dont know why Elvis is more legendary after that kind of statement? lol

may statement has nothing to do with your belief just stating a fact

 

[Bob George]

yeah the leiber and stoller collection plus others that were already owned by mj al suspious minds etc just talking in general not directly about that song.

what campaign was BJ used in cause i dont remember at all. certainly nothing like the conversation remix.

Pepsi

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