TialovesMJ
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^^ how sweet!!!
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NO BOO BOOS POSSIBLE in this thread imho - only perceptions and I for one appreciate your comments because they stimulate further exploration. The thing is (the way I see it) we are basically being asked to "look" beyond the obvious. I was struck by this too at first, trying my best to get my mind around why that song (SITD) was chosen, seemingly randomly, but what I could finally "get" with, is the metaphor in MJ putting that song on TUC - that's my take on it because, that, I feel is more the point than what the song was actually created for. Just like Ben which was created for a movie nearly 35 years ago, being the last song on Number Ones, completely out of chronological order and in his adult voice. That is more relevant than the fact that it is about a rat. I recall that when I first heard that song on Number Ones, my first thought was, I'm sure MJ had his reasons for doing it that way, hm, I wonder what that reason could have been. By AllforMJ pointing it out, I could see from a new perspective that there may have been "message" in the reason for it. In other words, this discussion is a "beyond the radar" type of discussion and one has to expand one's perceptions to be able to "see" it.
LOL!! @ the part I bolded. Well, my take on all this is, again - its perceiving beyond "the obvious". That's what we're being asked to do. Its more a spiritual perception than a visual or audio one from reading or hearing the lyrics on the surface, so using "the river Jordan" as an example, it supports the 'spiritual' aspect of these "communications" and the presumed spiritual nature of this "relationship".
Well, the ironic thing is that is exactly what is going on here. See, its obvious that You Are My Life could be about anything - his fans, his children, his mother, or even God, so the part of it that would support the topic would be to presume that the "you" he is speaking of, is a specific someone. My problems with it have been stated in my previous post, yet I can see the context of supporting the thread topic because even though You Are My Life could be about anything or anyone other than a female, it could therefore also be about a female - dunn't have to be - but just as easily could be.
Yes, well again, its obvious though. Again, I'm trying to share this perspective with you because I had the same "problem" at first (in the original thread) until some folks helped me to look beyond the literal, onto the potential 'poetic justice' these songs could (possibly) be trying to serve as well as their placements on some albums, being relevant as well. These are the aspects that make this thread so much fun.
Agree. I am not quick to conclude that a woman has to be the reason for a man's strength - that would be ludicrous. At the same time, what the thread starter is pointing out is that MJ seems to have been revitalized alongside making these recent love songs, which is what connects one thing to another.
Well, that's part of the main point about all of this. AllforMJ pointed out that in the song, Beautiful Girl and For All Time that when he says, "she never know" and "baby you'll never know" that it means she actually doesn't KNOW which is what MJ is presumably trying to accomplish by throwing her all these "hints". This is the romantic aspect of the thread.
Personally I agree with Ape and another poster who said that many girls could feel he's talking to them, so imho he'll have to come out with a specific name at some point, if "she" is to KNOW for sure of course that is, if all this is as it seems. And if not, its great entertainment for soime of us.
True - and this is the "danger" anytime someone is operating from a foregone conclusion - they will pick out only those aspects of a song that support what they already believe, so I feel everyone has to beware of doing that. That's why I feel its important to be open to closer examination of each song's (possible) relations to other songs etc. If we don't remain O P E N, then we stand a chance of seeming to 'force' a 'fit' and I don't imagine anyone wants to do that, it would be a fruitless waste, because let's face it, whatever (if anything) MJ is saying - he is saying - and whatever he is not saying - - he is not saying. I believe we're trying to objectively identify the truth as close as we can get to it in this way, that is, and without being too 'intrusive' at that.
Do you mean this in reference to whether it is "right" or "wrong" for us to be discussing this? That is an issue many of us have expressed concern over. I feel the purpose of it could be to assist "her" (if of course there is a "her") in figuring out what he's saying - it seems to me there's got to be some purpose for it since the spirit of it is moving, touching and inspiring to others who are reading, so it seems to be mostly a matter of trying to keep it in check (which is what you seem to be trying to do) and on track lyrically with the point of the topic, which others of us try and do, and all with great respect for MJ and the presumably 'private' nature of his seeming, 'public' yet secret message.
well for the most part it seems to me that so far we've got a little "potluck" of ideas here - some more logical, rational or lyrically supported than others it seems to me also, but there's a bunch really.
I'd like for someone to comment on what I said because to me what I said makes sense lol!! and I'm commenting in order to stimulate discussion - where're y'all AT?! lol
So are you saying that the rap in the remix pinpoints what he's wanting said, although MJ would also not have necessarily corrected Eve even if she were wrong?
I feel one thing that would make this thread even more interesting is if we could take a closer look at various verses, such as this connection between these two songs. I definitely see the correlation in the part I bolded. The only thing I don't see is the fact that - first off Someone In the Dark was released in around 1983 from an album that won a Grammy, so its not just being released in 2004.
With that said, whomever (obviously, if anyone) it was metaphorically to/for/about, would have to have originally "suddenly appeared" back then since that is when it was originally released (UNLESS the only relevant thing is the fact that it is on TUC right along with the song which also mentions "the dark", that being, The Way You Love Me) - now IF that is not the case, that would mean that "this person" is someone who was "there" in 1983, when the song was originally released.
Now, if that is the case, then it is obvious that the lyrics "you suddenly appeared" would have to be making reference to way back then, using your correlation of the fact that you are saying that both songs are saying essentially the same thing.
So looking at the fact that MJ went through hell right smack in between 1983 and 2001, then the fact that in 2001 he said, "it was cloudy before but now its all clear" would seem to mean the person from 1983 was the person Eve could be referring to when she said, "all your life you've waited for this chick" - and - "whats so special 'bout this lady?" and You Rocked My World referring to someone he was spiritually reaching "back" for in these songs, which could explain how the next album had him reaching "toward" her in OMC. The only thing that gives me a l o n g pause is the line that says, "you taught me by sharing your life". That line alone cancels out dang near the entire theory (she doesn't "KNOW", they haven't interacted up close and personal, things of that nature) That's where I can see what Coy is saying in that some songs may seem to be relevant or connected and may not be.
Now to me THAT would make the song connections make sense, just as in the fact that PYT 2008 was resurrected from that same time period as Someone in the Dark, and brought up to date and placed on T25 to suggest that "the original PYT" (referring to the person, if there is one) is who/what the songs are about, then and now. Did any of that make sense? :lol: it did to me because it goes back to our previous discussion (in the past thread) about the connection between THEN and NOW.
ok AFMJ, I need your comment :lol: to see if this is 'on track' or off, agree or disagree, fun or a p.i.t.butt. :lol:
at the end of the day, I'll have to say this I agree with 100% :lol:I think Michael likes to give 'clues' that go in all direction.
That way everyone will find something that makes the song special to them, and Michael gets to keep his secrets
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AllForMJ
Guests
Nice breakdown, StateOfShock. This thread is very long now and it has close to 1,300 posts in it, so it seems like some of the newer posters may be providing their input based on only reading parts of this thread which is understandable. lol
There are some things that I've said some pages back in the thread that I think I'll have to go and get. This is about "You Are My Life" and "Will You Be There" being prophetic songs. I've mainly been looking at these two songs from a spiritual angle because the words to these songs have come to pass. Because of the way that MJ's mind has clearly been on a woman while going through the trial, and the two songs have come to pass in ways that are related to the trial, the words in these songs point to a female and the role she played in his life as he faced his challenges.
Also, MJ has also been the type to have a woman at his side when facing difficulties. When he went through the first blow that he was served in 1993, Liz Taylor was there for him. Lisa and Debbie came later. Between Debbie and the release of "Invincible" MJ appeared to be extremely lonely. Then, he went from singing love songs about pain and disappointment to recording and releasing "One More Chance." The love songs being released from "One More Chance" forward have not been love songs about disappointment at all. They have been love songs that show he's opened his heart to someone. He's not trying to get away from her or anything like that in these songs. These songs that are now being released have all been about him enjoying her presence. In "One More Chance" he said, "He'll sail the seven seas to be near her." In "You Are So Beautiful" he says, "You near, dried my tears, washed away my fears." The love songs released after "Invincible" have been about coming closer in different ways, on different levels.
Notice that in these songs, he never describes a need to walk away, turn away, get away, or any of that stuff. These songs have more so been about the two coming together as there seems to be no conflict between them at all. There have been no signs of him feeling leery or anything like this in these songs. There's no sound of discontent. They have mainly been saying, in so many words, "I love you. Let's be together. I know we're going to do fine." It also seems like he was friends with her first and fell in love with her later which is why she didn't know and he's been trying to tell her.
I too agree with the last line of Coy's post. What Coy said is what I love about MJ. MJ has found a way to get straightforwardness and obscurity to co-exist. LOL Gotta love him!
There are some things that I've said some pages back in the thread that I think I'll have to go and get. This is about "You Are My Life" and "Will You Be There" being prophetic songs. I've mainly been looking at these two songs from a spiritual angle because the words to these songs have come to pass. Because of the way that MJ's mind has clearly been on a woman while going through the trial, and the two songs have come to pass in ways that are related to the trial, the words in these songs point to a female and the role she played in his life as he faced his challenges.
Also, MJ has also been the type to have a woman at his side when facing difficulties. When he went through the first blow that he was served in 1993, Liz Taylor was there for him. Lisa and Debbie came later. Between Debbie and the release of "Invincible" MJ appeared to be extremely lonely. Then, he went from singing love songs about pain and disappointment to recording and releasing "One More Chance." The love songs being released from "One More Chance" forward have not been love songs about disappointment at all. They have been love songs that show he's opened his heart to someone. He's not trying to get away from her or anything like that in these songs. These songs that are now being released have all been about him enjoying her presence. In "One More Chance" he said, "He'll sail the seven seas to be near her." In "You Are So Beautiful" he says, "You near, dried my tears, washed away my fears." The love songs released after "Invincible" have been about coming closer in different ways, on different levels.
Notice that in these songs, he never describes a need to walk away, turn away, get away, or any of that stuff. These songs have more so been about the two coming together as there seems to be no conflict between them at all. There have been no signs of him feeling leery or anything like this in these songs. There's no sound of discontent. They have mainly been saying, in so many words, "I love you. Let's be together. I know we're going to do fine." It also seems like he was friends with her first and fell in love with her later which is why she didn't know and he's been trying to tell her.
I too agree with the last line of Coy's post. What Coy said is what I love about MJ. MJ has found a way to get straightforwardness and obscurity to co-exist. LOL Gotta love him!
And, as I've been saying as a reminder from time-to-time, this thread is about love, spirituality, romance and MJ's music. Because spirituality is a part of it, it causes us to look beneath the surface of things. It's actually inevitable, because MJ is so deep.
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Well ok so I'm on track here, thanks for letting me know. As for going back to get the bits about prophetic aspects, for my part you won't need to retrieve those (although prob for newbies to the thread) because I recall that you and some others concur that those songs could be prophetic and I did agree that it 'resonates' as possible that it could be so. My question would then be though, what about the line which says, "you taught me by sharing your life"? Are you saying that is something that he "projected" and which hasn't come to pass yet? To me it seems one of those things that makes it hard to conclude a "meaning" from the overall song.
Regarding the part I bolded, I would like to know if you're saying that you feel that OMC isn't about a "do-over". To me the title and lyrics speaks for itself and am under the assumption that everyone sees it that way and I originally took it that you saw it that way when you originally (in the first thread) pointed out the songs on TUC, one being Fall Again which obviously speaks for itself, especially the lyrical content as well the title also.
Now I sort of get the impression now you're not seeing it that way and I'm trying to understand if not, how not, ("this time" - "can't go on without you by my side" - "if you see her tell her this for me" - "all I need is one more chance at love"
being that's what the overall message pretty much seems to be about, tied in with other "messages" in TUC eg., The Way You Love Me, "I was afraid cause I was hurt the last time" which would seem to tie together all the songs on TUC that reference the past, eg., Fall Again, eg., "I haven't left you alone", Heart on the Line ("if you wanna get it right, you've got to reach out and try") which Coy would say is a generic "inspirational" song but you (AFMJ) have me looking beyond the radar here :lol: its a standard practice now.
Anyway, just wondered if I'm reading your posts wrong or what.
Now, off hand, I don't know of any songs where he is talking about 'getting away' from her, other than Don't Walk Away where he says, "even though I had to let you go" which speaks for itself as to why, by the song title, and with the exception of where Eve says, "feeling like you wanna pull back, but you know you perfect for her you got all of what them fools lack" and even in that song he's tallking about being with her, however I guess all you're really meaning is that in the new songs there is nothing but love, nothing that is a pull-back in energy or anything negative (like running away, walking away etc.) that he projects coming from her - only love between the both of them.
As for the part I bolded, I guess it had to be a 'spiritual' friendship as signified by the song Ben, and the placing of it on Number Ones at the end in his adult voice and the mention of a "stranger who'd be my friend" as in the thread title song - right?
yes, and well MJ obviously has some pretty deep fans too
go figure :cheeky: :lol: no pun intended (as in, we're busy trying to 'figure' this out?) :lol: ok a little humor there, ok very little...lol
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I get that this is a interpretation thread.
There's not much fun figuring out, what is clear as day.
Sure "Will you be there" could be about a deeper spiritual side of a relationship.
Sometimes, a song is open to multiple interpretations.
Sometimes, it just is what it is.
Um I responded, based on how the thread starter explained it.
What person wouldn't revitalized, feeling like they've got a second chance at life, after being in danger of losing everything?
I'm not saying, it's wrong. If you want to go that route, run with it.
This is true. But then you can also find many many songs of love (obvious or not), where this is not the case.
No. What I meant is that I don't want to turn this into a big discussion of: Who is right, and who is wrong, in their interpretations.
LOL You make sense just fine.
You're doing a great job, stimulating discussion.
No. What I was Trying to say was that Eve made her own conclusions based on what the song meant to her (interpretation).
The song (original Not remix) is open to multiple interpretations.
Eve closes that gap by introducing her vision (opinion) to the song.
Michael wouldn't necessarily ask Eve to change her lyrics, even if they didn't coincide with his vision for the original song, as long as the remix lyrics relates to any of the possible interpretations.
What would you conclude the song is about at first glance?? Romantic love. Eve delivers.
It bothers me, the at times, lack of doubt in some posts here (not all).
Almost voicing a kind of Certainty instead of Possibility.
This could JUST be the way they communicate, or it could be that they're so certain that they feel, it is close to fact.
I'm talking about the romantic aspects now and not the dilemma of,
'obvious vs. romantic' interpretation.
I am more than happy to admit that I could be wrong in my interpretations, since I don't know what Michael had in mind, writing these songs.
I'm going to bow out of this thread now.
Like I've said once or twice before, I'm not here to rattle the cage or cause offence.
Only make you consider a few things.
I will leave you to it
Thank you for your patience and willingness to explain..
If you have something to add, you're welcome to PM me, as I won't be checking this thread for a repsonse.
Be nice, as you see the back of me? lol
well although Coy isn't coming back, I'll comment to stimulate the discussion and hopefully get it back on track
Others may have that impression too because at the end of the day, it is that indeed, however, due to the thread title and topic, I see it more specifically as a "trying -to-clarify-the-point-of-the-topic-title-using-MJ's-music-to-do-it" thread
Its interesting. I've noticed that some people see this in different ways at different times. Sometimes posters feel its necessary to add notations like, "imho", "imo", "I feel", "I believe", "seems to me" etc. so as not to seem to be 'waxing' an 'authority' - and other times we leave it to the readers to automatically understand that on a message board, everything is always just everyone's personal opinion or interpretation. For me it is a given that all views expressed are the sole property of the one who has expressed it :lol:
unless they are MJ and we are on completely the wrong track :ermm:
:lol: if that were the case I'd like to think MJ would be so kind as to stear us into a more productive and constructive more clear direction being that those are words that characterize him. :yes:
so, in the absence of all that, this thread topic is what it is
jmho :flowers:
Others may have that impression too because at the end of the day, it is that indeed, however, due to the thread title and topic, I see it more specifically as a "trying -to-clarify-the-point-of-the-topic-title-using-MJ's-music-to-do-it" thread
True to the last point. The point of this discussion is to look 'outside the box' since that is the way MJ thinks, so the thread starter is saying there is more than what meets the eye
Agree - however - again - the point is the music - the music that came out of it too - not just the level of rejuvination
Originally Posted by STATEofSHOCK
Well, that's part of the main point about all of this. AllforMJ pointed out that in the song, Beautiful Girl and For All Time that when he says, "she never know" and "baby you'll never know" that it means she actually doesn't KNOW which is what MJ is presumably trying to accomplish by throwing her all these "hints".
There are many songs about all kinds of topics in MJ's repertoire - we're only talking about the ones that are relevant to the topic
I feel that unless a person is MJ, there is no such expertise in a thread such as this anyway - that's why I said there are no boo-boos - in fact - its really not that serious lol - just some folks on the same imaginative, romantic and spiritual "wavelength" bouncing stuff around, and for those who are on a different 'wavelength' - people are open to listen to them - the way I see it. The only thing required is that whatever they say make SENSE (meaning be logical, rational or supported by MJ's art).
I sure can't tell. lol nobody's commenting on very much of anything I've said but ok
My interpretaion of MJ is that he is a lot more deliberate as an artist, than to give his song to someone and say to them, do with this as you please. Eve would have had to have invented the entire scenario she raps about because MJ talks about NONE of what she does, in his original song. He says he wants to touch and taste - and Eve has MJ waiting his entire life to be with her, analyzing the situation to death, holding back himself, (ah there's one! allformj! an example of him holding back) she's got them having children! lol I feel that if her lyrics align with his vision of what he wanted to project or portray in the song, of course he'd use it and if they did not, he would not. It is well reputed how exacting he is, which is why I see it this way. It is said he is not the type to leave very much to 'chance' and wouldn't surprise me if he wrote the rap himself, although it doesn't have to be the case. Although I could be wrong (had to say that?) I do believe he lets his collaborators know what he's wanting to create and illicits their input.
Its interesting. I've noticed that some people see this in different ways at different times. Sometimes posters feel its necessary to add notations like, "imho", "imo", "I feel", "I believe", "seems to me" etc. so as not to seem to be 'waxing' an 'authority' - and other times we leave it to the readers to automatically understand that on a message board, everything is always just everyone's personal opinion or interpretation. For me it is a given that all views expressed are the sole property of the one who has expressed it :lol:
I feel its stimulating when someone likes to make a bunch of "noise" lol (rattling a cage?) and to me a topic is most interesting when people can share divergent points of view without introducing feelings of offense or intrusion. Its a free Country where I live, and a free message board. Hate to see anyone leave for this reason ...
unless they are MJ and we are on completely the wrong track :ermm:
:lol: if that were the case I'd like to think MJ would be so kind as to stear us into a more productive and constructive more clear direction being that those are words that characterize him. :yes:
so, in the absence of all that, this thread topic is what it is
jmho :flowers:
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AllForMJ
Guests
"Someone In The Dark" is a soundtrack just like "Childhood" is a soundtrack for "Free Willy 2," but didn't "Childhood' end up being about him? Yes it did. He said if people want to get to know him they should listen to "Childhood." Just like this song is about him, I feel there are things in "Someone In The Dark" that are also about him.
In response to the above, I am reposting some things that I've said about "You Are My Life" and "Will You Be There" being prophetic songs that have both come to fruition in ways relative to the '03-'05 trial. These are posts that are pretty far back in the thread and I don't know if you've read that far back, or if you have been keeping up with the entire thread. It's pretty long now. There are over a 1000 posts in this thread so if you missed these it's fully understandable.
Yet, I still feel that "Will You Be There" is about a woman becoming his friend because he mentions things pertaining to intimacy and he says that he gets lonely sometimes, and also because at the end of his stage performance for this song, he has a female angel wrap her wings around him to bring him comfort. The person that suddenly appeared to him in "You Are My Life" was also doing things to bring him comfort.
Here's something else that I've been meaning to point out about "Stranger In Moscow" and what occurred in 2004.
In "Stranger In Moscow" he said, "Take my name. Just let me be." He said it more than once. Now, look at what he said in 2004.
April 2004
This shows he is taking back his name.
If I didn't have a firsthand encounter with MJ and did not have anything to compare to what you are saying, I would probably agree with what you're saying here. But, since I have met MJ in person and have experienced him being unable to speak, I have to tell you what it was like. When he is lost for words it is from being uncomfortable. Each of the songs on the "Invincible" CD where he didn't know what to say were songs about discomfort. In each of the verses where he mentions not knowing what to say he also felt the need to pray. These songs are "Speechless," "Don't Walk Away," and "Whatever Happens."
"Speechless"
When I'm with you, I am lost for words. I don't know what to say. My head's spinning like a carousel, so silently I pray.
"Don't Walk Away"
See, I just can't find the right thing to say. I tried, but all my pain gets in the way. Tell me what I have to do so you'll stay. Should I get down on my knees and pray?
"Whatever Happens"
Preoccupied, she's afraid. Afraid that what they're doing's not right. He doesn't know what to say, so he prays.
Now, getting back to what it's like to see him speechless...
I can tell you what it's like when he’s speechless and doesn’t know what to say. This is when you can really tell that he is child-like.
What he did was much like what little kids do. Like when little kids will sometimes be playing alone in the living room with their toys and are talking out loud to themselves and then someone they don't know enters the room—and this person could be with a family member—the little kid will get totally quiet, stop what they are doing, get up and go to the family member and stay with them until the stranger leaves. Not all little kids do this, but many of them do. If you have seen little kids do this, it is very similar to the way that MJ was sitting in total silence while I was sitting alone with him. It's just that he didn't have anyone there to ease his fear accept the person that he didn’t know—which at that moment was me. My way of attempting to ease his fear was by keeping my promise to him. My promise was that no one would do anything to him. His bodyguards were still standing next to the radio station because he had them stay there as he walked across the parking lot to the limo alone following what I had said to him. When little kids get quiet in the presence of strangers it is because they feel uncomfortable. They don't know them.
Seeing MJ sitting completely motionless and in total silence and feeling his fear was much like what little kids do, except little kids are unable to remain as still as him.
In addition to being fearful, he was also extremely shy—shy to the point that he was barely able to give me eye contact. He kept trying over and over and over and over, literally, to give me direct eye contact, but he was barely able to do it. His fear combined with he shyness made me almost feel bad for him. It was kind of cute all at the same time, but you can feel his fear. He becomes speechless when he is uncomfortable in a situation. Back then, he was very uncomfortable one on one. He only spoke to me because I spoke to him first and when he answered he answered in a whisper. When I said, “Hi, Michael” he whispered “Hello.” When I slowly reached out my hand to place something into his hands, that was the only time that he moved, and when he did move, he only lifted up his hands and opened them so I could place in his hands what I wanted to give to him. After I gave it to him, he whispered “Thank you” and went right back to sitting completely still and being totally silent. He was afraid. The only reason why he whispered “Good-bye” at the end is because I said “Bye” to him first.
When he is speechless, I can tell you, he is speechless from not knowing what to say. When he says, “I have not the words…” he means exactly that. When I experienced him being speechless it wasn’t from anything except him not knowing what to say or how to say it. In the two other songs on the “Invincible” CD where there are lines of him not know what to say, again, both of the songs are songs where he’s uncomfortable with the situation at hand.
My firsthand encounter with him was a close up that consisted of silence, stillness, shyness and fear all combined with him still trying his hardest to be brave. He was 21 years old. I was a teenager and he was afraid of me even though I was acting mild mannered. He was nothing like the person I saw on stage the year before that. He was nothing like what I saw him being a couple hours before that moment during the autograph signing. He was very talkative during the autograph signing.
In order to interact with him one on one, I had to take all the things I felt coming from him into consideration and make sure that my actions did not cause him to think I would harm him. I even had to be mindful of my own body language because I did not want to cause him to think, or feel in anyway, that I would hurt him. I just interacted with him without questioning him about his fear. He really is afraid of people—a lot. More than you’d ever expect from the greatest entertainer in the world.
When he mentions fear, he truly means what he says. When he doesn't know what to say, he really does not know what to say. When he released the "Invincible" CD he was around 43 years old. Yet, he was still mentioning fear in his songs. Therefore, it is something that he is still somewhat struggling with. When he wrote "You Are So Beautiful," he was around 47 years old and the word fear is in this song as well. The line says, "You near, dried my tears, washed away my fear."
There's one thing that I found to be very interesting and that is even through he didn't know how to have a conversation with me, even though he was afraid and even though he was extremely shy to the point that he could barely look into my eyes, he still interacted with me, and I know it was only because of the way that I was conducting myself. I exercised self-control. He did not need his bodyguards' protection. I kept my promise.
Notice that he mentions the word “fear” in “You Are My Life” and “You Are So Beautiful.” In both songs he is saying the fear would be taken away. He mentions the word “afraid” in “Someone In The Dark” and also “The Way You Love Me.” In "Someone In The Dark" there is the line that says, "...never be afraid." There is a reason why he’s saying these things. They are not just written lyrics. Fear…being afraid…has become a part of his life. Being unable to speak sometimes has also become a part of his life. It’s not fun for him. It just seems like he’s found ways to cope with it as much as he can, but it’s real. I saw it in his eyes. I felt it. That’s why I know he could never have done any of the things that Evan Chandler claimed he did to his son. MJ doesn’t have it in him to do any of that. He would have been too afraid.
It is absolutely amazing how he can get on stage, perform his heart out and have the entire world in awe, and be afraid off stage. But he is. There is a side of MJ that is truly child-like.
Yes, some songs contain lyrics that are just lyrics. But some are more than that. When he mentions not knowing what to say or mentions fear, he means exactly that.
Also, MJ will indeed change lyrics. This is something that Ne-Yo has been making very clear over the past couple of months pertaining to the songs that he's been writing for MJ's upcoming album.
For those that remember, we can even look back at the “I Have This Dream” songwriting contest that MJ held back in 2002. The winner of the contest is named Ric Kipp. Below are the lyrics that he submitted for the contest. Part of the contest involved MJ eventually going into the studio to record the winning song.
Original Lyrics Submitted by Ric Kipp for the “I Have This Dream” Songwriting Contest:
As all can plainly see, Ric Kipp's lyrics were changed, the song was shortened, and look at what word came into it. The word pain. The word pain came into this songwriting contest that took place in 2002. Ric did not have the word pain in the lyrics that he submitted. It came in only after the song was changed.
The word pain is not in "One More Chance," "Beautiful Girl," "The Way You Love Me," "For All Time" or "Hold My Hand." Why not? Can it be because someone has been helping MJ to put the pain behind him since before the trial? All of these songs are addressing a woman. "One More Chance" is about having a chance to be in love again. "Beautiful Girl" is about being in love. "The Way You Love Me" is about him being supplied with love and affection. "For All Time" is about telling her how long he will love her and how long he will need her. "Hold My Hand" is about them being together and her letting him be her one and only man. "One More Chance" was released in 2003. "Beautiful Girl" was released in 2004. "The Way You Love Me" was released in 2004. "For All Time" was released in 2008. "Hold My Hand" is to be released in 2008 as well. And although it is Akon's song featuring Michael Jackson, it is a song that MJ has chosen to sing and he usually will not sing anything that he doesn't feel some sort of a connection to. Why did the word pain not enter any of these songs? Maybe it is because the song "You Are My Life," which is prophetic, says she would take away the pain. Each of the songs in this paragraph where the word pain is absent, are pertaining to a woman. All of these songs came out after the "Invincible" CD which is filled with song of discontent, and after the "I Have This Dream" songwriting contest where the winning song was changed and the word pain was added.
The other thing that's interesting about "For All Time" is this. This song has something collapsing in it. It is something that was constructed. Yet, love, affection, spirituality and romance are still a part of the song as well. This song says, "And maybe the walls will tumble and the sun may refuse to shine. When I say I love you, baby, you gotta know that's for all time." Then it goes from the walls tumbling to the walls crumbling. What does he say then? He says, "And maybe the walls will crumble and the sun may refuse to shine. When I say I need you, baby, you gotta know that's for all time."
This shows he needs her with him when things are not going well and he's letting her know that even when things are not going well, he will still love her. This is exactly the type of thing he displayed during the trial while he was releasing love songs, as well as when he wrote a love song.
In addition to this, romance was on his mind during the trial. "Beautiful Girl," which was released in 2004 and repeatedly says "I'm in love with you," has a line that says, "It's almost like dancing when romancing in her arms." This song, which is about love and romance, is also the exact same song that he had playing during his interview with Geraldo after the Grand Jury Transcript was leaked to the media causing the Judge presiding over the case to allow MJ to make a statement.
During a time of hardship, MJ picked a song about love and romance as the song to have playing during his interview with Geraldo and this speaks volumes. He could have chosen any of the other 56 songs from "The Ultimate Collection" box set, but he chose the one that says he's in love. He chose "Beautiful Girl."
The direction of this thread is not off when the focus is on love and romance, as it falls right in line with what MJ himself was doing during the trial. That was him standing there in the recording studio, on camera, with "Beautiful Girl" playing during the interview that took place during the trial. It can't be overlooked and this thread is consistent with what he himself was doing.
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summer
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I can't believe how long this thread is...:lol: Won't be able to read much for the next two weeks...I'm on a vacation and I've got this book I can't put down, it's so good, so I'll be busy reading that....in the sun (well, hopefully! :lol...outside. I'll try to catch up when I can. :yes:
...outside. I'll try to catch up when I can. :yes:Magicgirl
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What you describe I experienced once. I think this is not because of being shy and having fear. MJ grew in a rough neighbourhood, I did as well (in Russia), yes, part of person has fear and part of person knows how to overcome it and avoid the danger. I know the feeling when you go out in the evening and have to return back on foot late and are prepared to run any moment and are very aware of the surroundings.
I think MJ being speechless is more because of being reserved and not knowing what to say when you meet unknown person and the situation when one person is a celebrity and another one is not and there is a barrier because of that.
As I said I've experienced similar situation many years ago, when I was invited for a day as an interpreter to some exhibition, I knew that the prince was coming there as well, but I had no interest and it bothered me not at all, I was thinking it must be some old man. So at the moment when he came up to where I was standing together with 2 other people and the businessman he wanted to talk to was not there (for whom I made translation), it was an awesome moment, he had to wait, as businessman came back only 10 minutes later and all this time there was silence! Prince was together with one more person and I was together with 2 other people, first I stared for a moment and noticed he was well dressed, young and had these beautiful eyes, but I thought it was not polite to look at the person, so I looked through him, not into the eyes, but at his tie or at the space behind him. I was not well dressed (in this old pulli and short skirt) and felt I was not in the position to say something, though now I think I could have asked for a photo or could have asked if he liked russia. So it lasted for 10 min, then the rest people understood and crowd gathered, the businessman came and I disappeared behind the backs of people who ran up and stood in front of me and then there was this impudent journalist woman who ran up and got a photo of herself with a prince which was then put in the newspaper and I didn't even get a photo as both of us were speechless!
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TialovesMJ
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What deep experiences :yes:
AllForMJ
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I agree with the part that I bolded when it comes to MJ, but on the shy part, I know what I saw stemmed from fear. I wish you could have seen, with your own eyes, the way that MJ does his eyes when he's unable to give direct eye contact.
This is what he does...
He slightly holds his head down and it causes him to have to look up when he's trying to look into your eyes. When he did it to me, he slightly held down his head and then over and over and over, really fast, he'd look at me, then looked at the floor, look at me, then look at the floor, look at me, then look at the floor. He did it over and over and over and over and over. The way he does it is cute and sad all combined. Although he was sitting straight up with his back fully against the seat, his posture read fear because he held his head slightly down.
Because of the number of years that have gone by, he's probably nowhere near as shy as he used to be, but something is causing him to still mention the word "fear" in his songs. Maybe some choose to ignore this word "fear" as it comes into his songs, but I find it very hard to do. I cannot ignore that word "fear" because of what I experienced with him. There is a reason why he mentions the words "fear" and "afraid."
Because I felt his fear it is another reason why I hate the way that some have been treating him. It was so wrong for them to force him to have to fight for his life after he's been living his life in fear for so long.
His fear could be stemming from being mobbed all his life and having to spend his life running from large crowds for safety. It could be from the way that people have been physically pulling on him from his hair on down. It could be from being set up by people that have come into his life portraying themselves as trustworthy. It could be from being used for his name all the time and not knowing what his name is being used for. It could be from people trying to blackmail him for monetary gain. There are multiple reasons for him to be afraid. Not knowing what people's motives are is a cause for fear and imagine the number of people that pass through his life with him being unable to tell what their motives are?
I truly doubt if anyone will get away with treating that prince the way that many have treated Michael Jackson. If someone tried to treat that prince that way, they'd be locked in a prison cell.
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TialovesMJ
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^^ thats so true what you said.
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wowo
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stop this.
you the people had described an artist with nearly 50 years independent living/performing experienment into a poor guy, a coward, a pitiful creature without any charm. it shouldn't be like that.
when i was young(maybe in high school), i experienced self-closed, can't say one word in half a year once. i changed it myself finally. everyone should be responsible for his own life, 50 years is... a big man, whatever the fear is, he should have overcome and be responsible for his behavior.
but i believe he had, he can do. if he didn't, he won't, he can't... after a people owning such a 50 years career like him, well, it would be a joke, and he deserved to be defeated by fear.
no offense
you the people had described an artist with nearly 50 years independent living/performing experienment into a poor guy, a coward, a pitiful creature without any charm. it shouldn't be like that.
when i was young(maybe in high school), i experienced self-closed, can't say one word in half a year once. i changed it myself finally. everyone should be responsible for his own life, 50 years is... a big man, whatever the fear is, he should have overcome and be responsible for his behavior.
but i believe he had, he can do. if he didn't, he won't, he can't... after a people owning such a 50 years career like him, well, it would be a joke, and he deserved to be defeated by fear.
no offense
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^ Michael Jackson is the LAST person on earth to be defeated by fear!! are you crayz...silly??? :lol:
That's just IT. He has succeeded beyond anyone's imagination IN SPITE OF HIS FEARS and that's long BEFORE ANYONE "came" into his life!
MJ has followed his love - his bliss - despite EVERYTHING
How many people can say that?
don't be so judgemental Maaaan
That's just IT. He has succeeded beyond anyone's imagination IN SPITE OF HIS FEARS and that's long BEFORE ANYONE "came" into his life!
MJ has followed his love - his bliss - despite EVERYTHING
How many people can say that?
don't be so judgemental Maaaan
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AllForMJ
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Those are your words, wowo, not mine or the words of anyone else that have been having regular discussions in this thread.
As a matter of fact, the words, "a poor guy, a coward, a pitiful creature without any charm" never even entered this thread until YOU yourself brought them in.
The topic of this thread does not even go anywhere near any of what YOU described. I think you need to start from page one and read all the way up to your post and then you will see.
Until you do that, you will not fully understand your error. Also, you can't enter a thread say all of that stuff as your very first post and then follow all of that with the words "no offense." No one else in this thread has posted such words, except you. Start from page one and look at all the posts up to your own and you will see.
LindaC781
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I don't think MJ as what the Wowo person described. I think of him as one person when he is onstage, and a different person when he's one on one with someone. He is a precious gem. A jewel that needs tender loving care. Someone we can all look up to...cause he is all too human sometimes.
AllForMJ
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Some may be completely surprised that MJ was just as shy as I described a page back and just as fearful as I described, but the truth is...the God honest truth is...he did every single thing that I described and guess what he did afterwards? Afterwards, he went on to conquer the music industry. When he did what I described a page back, he was promoting "Off The Wall." What came after "Off The Wall?" It was "Thriller." The biggest selling album of all time is what came next. He then went onwards and shattered record after record. Yes he did. But, he still did all that I described too.
I've asked God about this. And what comes to me about it is, with Michael Jackson being the most famous man in the word, and on the level that he is on, what keeps him from being arrogant is his fear and his shyness. It is actually what keeps him humble. There is no way that God would allow someone to become as big as Michael Jackson and be arrogant too. It is Michael's fear that actually causes him to need God so much and to stay with God. But, I think what also causes Michael to fight his fear of people as well and rise above his fear is because God says to fear no one, but Him.
I think God is very pleased with Michael Jackson for becoming as big as he is but still loving the Him too. Michael has never strayed from God. He also has never used his fame for anything except good.
Did you see how God defeated ALL of Michael's enemies as he pushed Michael forward to continue doing what he loves? If God was not pleased with him, things would not be going as well as they are. MJ got a chance to take a stand and was triumphant. His enemies were put to shame. He was also singing to a chick and still is.
So the love story continues as the mystery unfolds.
Wow! It sure feels like that album is right around the corner. It is going to be off the hook!! Michael's got so many things...wonderful things...amazing things...that can go into his upcoming album! He's had a whole new life experience that occurred on a major scale and most of it was spiritual based.
:yes:
I've asked God about this. And what comes to me about it is, with Michael Jackson being the most famous man in the word, and on the level that he is on, what keeps him from being arrogant is his fear and his shyness. It is actually what keeps him humble. There is no way that God would allow someone to become as big as Michael Jackson and be arrogant too. It is Michael's fear that actually causes him to need God so much and to stay with God. But, I think what also causes Michael to fight his fear of people as well and rise above his fear is because God says to fear no one, but Him.
I think God is very pleased with Michael Jackson for becoming as big as he is but still loving the Him too. Michael has never strayed from God. He also has never used his fame for anything except good.
Did you see how God defeated ALL of Michael's enemies as he pushed Michael forward to continue doing what he loves? If God was not pleased with him, things would not be going as well as they are. MJ got a chance to take a stand and was triumphant. His enemies were put to shame. He was also singing to a chick and still is.
So the love story continues as the mystery unfolds.
Wow! It sure feels like that album is right around the corner. It is going to be off the hook!! Michael's got so many things...wonderful things...amazing things...that can go into his upcoming album! He's had a whole new life experience that occurred on a major scale and most of it was spiritual based.
:yes:
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TillitsGone
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You guys are really something else. :lol: I have never in my life meet fans like you explaining things in such depth. Michael is truly blessed to have peeps like you (and me). If only more people understood it like us.
TialovesMJ
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^^exactly!!..we have to :clap: for AllforMJ and everyonesle who is explaining things in depth in this thread. You guys are doing great!!!
AllForMJ
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He's really got it going ON!! Shy and all!! He's just...Wow!! He's just Mike!! That's Mike, y'all!!! That's just him!!
:lol:
Mike's like, "Accept me or don't accept me, but I'm still going to be me and I'm still going to do what I do. Ready or not, here I come. All of me!"
That's just Mike!
And then he sweeps through like a tornado and leaves people wanting him to do it again!!
:lol:
:lol:
Mike's like, "Accept me or don't accept me, but I'm still going to be me and I'm still going to do what I do. Ready or not, here I come. All of me!"
That's just Mike!
And then he sweeps through like a tornado and leaves people wanting him to do it again!!
:lol:
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TialovesMJ
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Heck yeah :kickass:unk:.... That's MJ for us. Don't cha just love him?
unk:.... That's MJ for us. Don't cha just love him? AllForMJ
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Yep! I LOVE ME SOME HIM!! Michael is cool!! Complex and all!!
TialovesMJ
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heh Same here ....Michael is just being Michael, got to LOVE it. He is just being himself,people either like it or they don't!!
....Michael is just being Michael, got to LOVE it. He is just being himself,people either like it or they don't!!
TillitsGone
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Seriously though, you have to be one lucky chic to have MJ in your life romantically. [size=-2]I know I shouldn't be saying this but... I wonder what's it's like... to.... make love to him... and I don't mean just sex but... it has to eb liek some sort of aurora of unity type of thing... you know what I mean?[/size]
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DMGJACKSON
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I find what you wrote AllforMJ touching was very moved...
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DMGJACKSON
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well said my lovely friend ...
AllForMJ
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:cheers:
Ohhh the beauty of Michael Joseph Jackson. Glad you all are still having fun in the thread!
Queeeeestion for you guys. lol
When did MJ's demo for the song "Love Never Felt So Good" appear on the Internet? I thought it was like last year, but I can't quite remember.
Does anyone know? And didn't it just kinda pop up outta nowhere?
Ohhh the beauty of Michael Joseph Jackson. Glad you all are still having fun in the thread!
Queeeeestion for you guys. lol
When did MJ's demo for the song "Love Never Felt So Good" appear on the Internet? I thought it was like last year, but I can't quite remember.
Does anyone know? And didn't it just kinda pop up outta nowhere?
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TialovesMJ
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Yes, this thread sure is lovely :yes: and so is Michael Jackson ..
hmmm I wish i could answer that question, but I have no clue either?? But you are probably right!!:yes:
..hmmm I wish i could answer that question, but I have no clue either
?? But you are probably right!!:yes: