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ALERT ALERT MJ Neverland News [check post #1 for updates]

Re: ALERT ALERT MJ Neverland News

Yeah but if you had been able to go there, you would know that there is no place in the world like Neverland
 
Re: ALERT ALERT MJ Neverland News

Big Apple2 said:
I hear what you're saying homie. LOL!

So my NEW question is: WHO OWNS SYCAMORE RANCH COMPANY?

Without being able to view the actual documents, how do we know that MJ didn't transfer the property into NEW company he may have set up.
Click to expand...

Looks to me that with Michael's name still on the Grant Deed that he still owns it. It's just that NOW the agreement is between him and Sycamore, not 1224 LLC.

Lawd is anybody listening? :lol: And BigApple, I think I saw you mention the same thing I have said earlier in this thread. You and I are in the same corner on this one.
 
Re: ALERT ALERT MJ Neverland News

Big Apple2 said:
I hear what you're saying homie. LOL!

So my NEW question is: WHO OWNS SYCAMORE RANCH COMPANY?

Without being able to view the actual documents, how do we know that MJ didn't transfer the property into a NEW company he may have set up.
Click to expand...

Yes, indeed, who owns Sycamore Ranch Company?
Of course, I guess it is none of my business. :cheeky:
 
Re: ALERT ALERT MJ Neverland News

A gentle (initially) reminder that invasive discussions of Michael's finances will NOT be done here. If you must, go to PM or email.

Warning number ONE.

Have a nice day,

Victoria
 
Re: ALERT ALERT MJ Neverland News

wendy2004 said:
Looks to me that with Michael's name still on the Grant Deed that he still owns it. It's just that NOW the agreement is between him and Sycamore, not 1224 LLC.

Lawd is anybody listening? :lol: And BigApple, I think I saw you mention the same thing I have said earlier in this thread. You and I are in the same corner on this one.
Click to expand...

That "might" also explain why the mainstream media has not picked up on this story as of yet. If MJ's name is still on the Grant Deed, the media ain't gonna consider that a REAL sale and pass on the story.

I mean, MJ handling his business ain't really newsworthy, if you know what I mean. LOL!
 
Re: ALERT ALERT MJ Neverland News

Omg this is soo sad for me!!


Neverland to me, was heaven on Earth. It is a place that fans and non-fans alike associate Michael with, it's a part of his legacy.

He could have saved it for his kids or opened it for tourists but then again, i also understand why he wanted to sell it.
 
Re: ALERT ALERT MJ Neverland News

Hey members, just a couple of notes:

This Neverland thing is big news and will likely be big news in the ENT world for a hot minute. Please feel free to express whatever opinion you have on it.

The only thing we will not tolerate is member attacks and I'm already having to clean the thread of those attacks. Please don't attack the messenger or each other.

Remember people have differing opinions on this matter and some people may express an opinion that you disagree with or take some personal offensive to or you may think is petty, stupid, riduculous --- you can get the drift here.

BUT ALL OPINIONS WILL BE ALLOWED ON THIS TOPIC.

If you need to vent, do so.

We will be opening up another thread for members who feel that they are having a hard time coping with this news [no need to comment on that].

This message will be added to the first post for all to see.

Also, any late breaking news on this topic will be added to the first post, so check back often.
 
Re: ALERT ALERT MJ Neverland News

if it turns out to be true...then it's sad he sold it because Neverland is a part of him I don't care what people say
we don't know for sure yet so I don't know...we'll have to wait and see
 
Re: ALERT ALERT MJ Neverland News

I always hoped to visit there one day, though. Now it will never happen

I wanted to go during the trial to support him, but at the time, I was pregnant, and on on bedrest .

If I knew this was going to happen, I would've made the trip anyway.
 
Re: ALERT ALERT MJ Neverland News

daphnieas said:
Please remember that Michael hasn't been there in a number of years, clearly it doesn't mean as much as it once did to him.
Neverland is a piece of land, what that place stood up for is still alive IMO, only that is alive on Michael's heart, not on a property.
Click to expand...

How would one know that it doesn't mean as much as it once did to him?
See what the trial did to him? As I've said before, a part of MJ is dead after the trial. :(
maybe suppressed and it's sad
I wish MJ would make some kind of statement so I could know that he really IS happy to let it go.
I wanted to know if the whole ideal he hold onto in all these years really has changed.
or is it that he has no choice but to sell it because of cash flow problem?
excuse me for being :cry: sad. :cry:
 
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Good, Michael has sold NL.
He has better things to do, and let's face it, Michael's happy now.
WE should be happy for him, not sad.
a old chapter has closed, a new one is just beginning. :yes:
 
Looks to me that with Michael's name still on the Grant Deed that he still owns it. It's just that NOW the agreement is between him and Sycamore, not 1224 LLC.
Click to expand...
thats what im hoping. but whats the difference between a grant deed and the deed thats been transfered thats saying it means mj has sold it?

if it hasnt been sold i hope michael b or dr thome or whatever mj feels like calling himself clarifys this
 
I am not gonna lie to you guys, I do not know MJ personally, but when I read this breaking news, I cried. My sister laughed at me when I did because she thought that I had no reason to cry. What I told my sister was that she did not understand that it was his home. Whether it gave him problems or haunted him, it was still his home. It was a home were his cousins were raised, where his children were raised, where he had his initimate, private moments there. A home that he once stated that he would never, ever sell.

This year, like so many people in this country, my house that I lived in since I was seven years old almost went into foreclosure. I could have lost the house that I lived in for almost 20 years, a house that was almost ruined by fire damaged last year, a house that I clean, painted, hang pictures on and where my younger sister loved. A house that meant a lot to my parents who bought it in 1990, their first house after years living in an apartment in the west side of Philadelphia. Even though I had my issues with the house I lived in, it was still my house, my home or rather the families'. I would not be shocked this is how MJ felt when he was thinking about selling the estate.

I know that I have stated many times that I would not care if he sold his house. It is just a house, he can always buy another one. However, for some reason, today was different. When I think about the evil people who trashed, ruined and almost destroyed this man and everything about him still having to keep their homes, I was livid. It is not fair. It truly is not. Right now, as I am typing this, I have to understand that MJ made his decision and he has decided to let it go. Too many thoughts must have runned past his mind when he thought about this huge decision. After that terrible and uncalled trial, Mike basically had enough. If he had to sell his home because of what happened to him, I cannot say that I can blame him. However, I can say that I am sad for this.

I wish him the best regarding finding a permanent place to live and stay in peace and privacy. It is a darn shame, though, I always wanted to go to Neverland. It looks like I have to go to Disney World instead.

That is my two cents for now. I know I am gonna comment on more. Y'all know me. Don't be sad, fans. Wipe your tears, I know Mike wiped his, and be happy for him that something like this had to go. Maybe for the better. Let's hope so. All we ever wanted for Michael is for him to be happy. Maybe this is part of his happiness. Let the media have a field day. I am not interested in there bullish.
 
Re: ALERT ALERT MJ Neverland News

wendy2004 said:
I don't think the property is actually sold. Without seeing any of the documents, it's impossible to tell in what context the documents were filed. However, going by the docket it looks this way to me:

1) The Termination Agreement:

The agreement between Michael and 1224 LLC (the Original Colony Capital entity that took over the loan) was terminated

2) Assignment Deed of Trust

The property was transferred from 1224 to Sycamore LLC which if you go by LeslieHu's info is STILL a Colony entity

3) The Reconveyance

A document that still keeps Michael involved with the the process of titles, deeds, etc. This document probably outlines what it is Michael has to fulfill or do (the terms) for the property to transfer back to him at some point. It's THIS document that means Michael is STILL involved with the property. Otherwise, there would be no use for it. The Deed would be done without his name being involved any further regarding the title.

4) The Grant Deed

It looks like NOW the agreement is between Michael and Sycamore (still Colony but a different slice of Colony).

Seems like some sort of transfer. And sometimes with transfers you HAVE to terminate one agreement (the one with 1224 LLC) in order to enter into another (the one with Sycamore LLC).

I think the Reconveyance document is the thing that sorta/kinda tells the tale on the surface, without seeing the documents in full.

I don't think it's sold in the way people have assumed. I could be wrong tho. Time will tell. :cheeky:
Click to expand...

There are more documents which I posted earlier. It got lost in the shuffle but it looks like there is more than just a name change:

I decided to run a search on the SB County Clerk website for SYCAMORE VALLEY RANCH COMPANY LLC. This company filed what is called a UCC Assignment and a UCC Termination. The Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) financing statements record and protect a secured party's interest in the collateral offered by a debtor for a loan. The UCC system gives public notice of the debtor-secured party relationship and the collateral involved.

For example, a bank gives a contractor a loan to buy a backhoe. The bank files a UCC financing statement (a lien) with the Secretary of State which lists the contractor as the debtor and the backhoe as collateral. Before the contractor can sell the backhoe, the UCC filing will show the prospective purchaser that the original bank has the first right to recover its loan from the sale. Or, before the contractor could borrow more money using that same equipment as security, the filing will show the new lender that at least part of the value of the backhoe belongs to another lender. When a debtor pays off the loan, the lender files a release and the property is free and clear.

There's also a Substitution Trustee filing by Sycamore Valley Ranch Company. A Substitution of Trustee is a form filed when a successor trustee takes the place of a previous trustee. A successor is a person or entity who takes over and continues the role or position of another. For example, many grantors and their respective spouses act as the initial trustees of a revocable living trust. In this situation, they remain in control until they are incapacitated or die. Then pre-selected successor trustees are appointed in under the terms of the declaration of trust. Usually a spouse, family member or trusted friend are selected as successor trustees. A second successor is a person nominated to take over responsibilites of the first successor in the case of death or disability of the first successor. A Substitution of Trustee form is often filed when a loan on real property is paid off or refinanced. It does not necessarily reflect the name of the current property owner. For example: if you assume a loan the Substitution of Trustee/Deed of Reconveyance is recorded in the name of the original borrower, not the current homeowner.

There is also a an Assignment Deed Of Trust. It's a legal document detailing the transfer of real estate from a debtor to a creditor.

I got all these definitions from various legal websites. Maybe a legal-eagle can help decipher the legal mumbo jumbo?
 
Oh yes, to the person who posted the news, thank you for posting.

The news hasn't broke on sites like people.com or yahoo.com. Just stating.
 
Hey some of you are cryin' about nothing. Come on Rats desert a sinking ship, Michael hasn't been lived in there for over tree years, besides he said: Neverland is not home it's house or something like, it really seems to Michael has enough and sold the property that he hasn't lived and didn't even think about. Michael was payin' for sth he doesn't want to live in. It's not a big deal, it's just good for Michael and us:)
 
As much as he probably does miss parts of Neverland and some of the past memories, and the beauty that it was, he probably feels a big weight off his shoulders now that he has let it go and released it. Sometimes when we hold on to things that are filled with bad memories, we feel bound by them and are unable to move on. When we can finally completely let go of all things associated with those bad memories, we shed that hurt and start anew.
Click to expand...

Ape - you described the feeling better than I could have. I felt the same way when I was reading about this. Great observation. :)

Hey some of you are cryin' about nothing.
Click to expand...

Oh please!!!!! I cried and I am not ashamed to state that. LOL. Alright? Goodness. I do not regret crying about it but you know what? I am so happy for him at the same time because sometimes in life, you have to let things go and he did that with the estate. So, good for Mike.

Yeah, people I cry. LOL. I cry. Yes, Yours truly cries!! LOL.

BTW, I am very happy this didn't break on tmz.com or any other website. I am glad it broke on here.
 
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some of us are happy some of us are sad over this. the important thing is how michael feels. i hope he made the right decision and i hope he will never regret this. its a huge step for michael. an entire chapter of his life has closed. i hope it was closed with happiness and positivity. what more can i possibly say ? it came as a shock to me because i thought he'd never sell neverland. i thought it'd be a place that he and his children could visit. i pray to God he will soon find another home better than neverland where he will be able to live happily ever after and be himself again.
 
Bee said:
I am not gonna lie to you guys, I do not know MJ personally, but when I read this breaking news, I cried. My sister laughed at me when I did because she thought that I had no reason to cry. What I told my sister was that she did not understand that it was his home. Whether it gave him problems or haunted him, it was still his home. It was a home were his cousins were raised, where his children were raised, where he had his initimate, private moments there. A home that he once stated that he would never, ever sell.

This year, like so many people in this country, my house that I lived in since I was seven years old almost went into foreclosure. I could have lost the house that I lived in for almost 20 years, a house that was almost ruined by fire damaged last year, a house that I clean, painted, hang pictures on and where my younger sister loved. A house that meant a lot to my parents who bought it in 1990, their first house after years living in an apartment in the west side of Philadelphia. Even though I had my issues with the house I lived in, it was still my house, my home or rather the families'. I would not be shocked this is how MJ felt when he was thinking about selling the estate.

I know that I have stated many times that I would not care if he sold his house. It is just a house, he can always buy another one. However, for some reason, today was different. When I think about the evil people who trashed, ruined and almost destroyed this man and everything about him still having to keep their homes, I was livid. It is not fair. It truly is not. Right now, as I am typing this, I have to understand that MJ made his decision and he has decided to let it go. Too many thoughts must have runned past his mind when he thought about this huge decision. After that terrible and uncalled trial, Mike basically had enough. If he had to sell his home because of what happened to him, I cannot say that I can blame him. However, I can say that I am sad for this.

I wish him the best regarding finding a permanent place to live and stay in peace and privacy. It is a darn shame, though, I always wanted to go to Neverland. It looks like I have to go to Disney World instead
Click to expand...


Exactly. That's how I feel! But you know what, if he's happy about this then we should support him. I do support him, but I'm still sad that it happening.
 
elusive moonwalker said:
thats what im hoping. but whats the difference between a grant deed and the deed thats been transfered thats saying it means mj has sold it?

if it hasnt been sold i hope michael b or dr thome or whatever mj feels like calling himself clarifys this
Click to expand...

Ehhhhhh, don't quote me on that. :lol: It's very possible that Michael sold the property to Sycamore LLC (Colony) and he's completely done with it. The Reconveyance document is what makes things iffy...UNLESS Michael has fulfilled something ALREADY and the document is purely mentioning that.

Here's the thing. How do we know who the property was transferred to based on the docket. Is anyone able to determine whether Sycamore is the owner now or if Michael is the owner now? Without viewing the documents how do we know?

The only thing that gives me a teeny clue is the (O) next to 1224 LLC on the Termination agreement. Technically, they owned the property right, even tho Michael was still a mortgage owner? If you look at the Grant deed, the (O) is now next to Michael's name. :unsure:

Hmmm... my horoscope told me to sit on the bench and be quiet today so Imma head out of this thread and leave it alone. LOL! If Michael is done with it and has sold it, then cool. Change is good and moving on is never a bad thing. :flowers: If it's still his, that's cool, too.

:victory:
 
Bee said:
The news hasn't broke on sites like people.com or yahoo.com. Just stating.
Click to expand...

Very interesting!

Seems to me that the story would have broken on Monday, which I believe is the same date that appears on that site that Applehead posted. Most of the time, when MJ related court documents are involved, they are reported within the hour. I wonder what happened this time around.
 
Hmmm... my horoscope told me to sit on the bench and be quiet today so Imma head out of this thread and leave it alone. LOL! If Michael is done with it and has sold it, then cool. Change is good and moving on is never a bad thing. :flowers: If it's still his, that's cool, too.
Click to expand...
nah dont leave you make me feel better even if you are talking rubbish lol j/k
 
Maybe it's just a start for better things to come, that's what I believe.

But on the other hand, I can understand some of the responses. I remember the other ML threads about the auction and thinkin' "They can do whatever they want with it." And I still feel that way, even as I read this news. Hardly thought about NL, at all, lately. But seeing this triggered back a few, fun memories. And while I feel happy for Mike, I am a little meloncholy(sp).....

Now somehow... I'm feeling even more excited about the future, if you know what I mean. 2009, here we come! :jump:
 
wendy2004 said:
Ehhhhhh, don't quote me on that. :lol: It's very possible that Michael sold the property to Sycamore LLC (Colony) and he's completely done with it. The Reconveyance document is what makes things iffy...UNLESS Michael has fulfilled something ALREADY and the document is purely mentioning that.

Here's the thing. How do we know who the property was transferred to based on the docket. Is anyone able to determine whether Sycamore is the owner now or if Michael is the owner now? Without viewing the documents how do we know?

The only thing that gives me a teeny clue is the (O) next to 1224 LLC on the Termination agreement. Technically, they owned the property right, even tho Michael was still a mortgage owner? If you look at the Grant deed, the (O) is now next to Michael's name. :unsure:

Hmmm... my horoscope told me to sit on the bench and be quiet today so Imma head out of this thread and leave it alone. LOL! If Michael is done with it and has sold it, then cool. Change is good and moving on is never a bad thing. :flowers: If it's still his, that's cool, too.

:victory:
Click to expand...

Because Sycamore Valley Ranch Company went ahead and filed these papers:

UCC Assignment and a UCC Termination
Substitution Trustee
Assignment Deed Of Trust
Grant Deed - where Michael grants the deed to Sycamore.


All should go here: http://www.sb-democracy.com/opis/ and type in Sycamore. Answers to all the questions can be answered.

I think. . . . :doh:

That O in the legend means grantor/debtor/SELLER/TRANSFEROR/defendant/trustor.
 
Re: ALERT ALERT MJ Neverland News

MJJC MOD 1 said:
There are more documents which I posted earlier. It got lost in the shuffle but it looks like there is more than just a name change:

I decided to run a search on the SB County Clerk website for SYCAMORE VALLEY RANCH COMPANY LLC. This company filed what is called a UCC Assignment and a UCC Termination. The Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) financing statements record and protect a secured party's interest in the collateral offered by a debtor for a loan. The UCC system gives public notice of the debtor-secured party relationship and the collateral involved.

For example, a bank gives a contractor a loan to buy a backhoe. The bank files a UCC financing statement (a lien) with the Secretary of State which lists the contractor as the debtor and the backhoe as collateral. Before the contractor can sell the backhoe, the UCC filing will show the prospective purchaser that the original bank has the first right to recover its loan from the sale. Or, before the contractor could borrow more money using that same equipment as security, the filing will show the new lender that at least part of the value of the backhoe belongs to another lender. When a debtor pays off the loan, the lender files a release and the property is free and clear.

There's also a Substitution Trustee filing by Sycamore Valley Ranch Company. A Substitution of Trustee is a form filed when a successor trustee takes the place of a previous trustee. A successor is a person or entity who takes over and continues the role or position of another. For example, many grantors and their respective spouses act as the initial trustees of a revocable living trust. In this situation, they remain in control until they are incapacitated or die. Then pre-selected successor trustees are appointed in under the terms of the declaration of trust. Usually a spouse, family member or trusted friend are selected as successor trustees. A second successor is a person nominated to take over responsibilites of the first successor in the case of death or disability of the first successor. A Substitution of Trustee form is often filed when a loan on real property is paid off or refinanced. It does not necessarily reflect the name of the current property owner. For example: if you assume a loan the Substitution of Trustee/Deed of Reconveyance is recorded in the name of the original borrower, not the current homeowner.

There is also a an Assignment Deed Of Trust. It's a legal document detailing the transfer of real estate from a debtor to a creditor.

I got all these definitions from various legal websites. Maybe a legal-eagle can help decipher the legal mumbo jumbo?
Click to expand...

Thanks MJJC Mod1. I did miss your post. :flowers: Hmmm.....those documents probably tell more of the tale, but the thing is this: without SEEING the documents it's kinda impossible to see WHOSE names go where. So it's purely a guessing game. On the face of it, it seems a sale was done, but we don't know where all the names go on all the dotted lines. It's possible, Michael sold the ranch to Sycamore. But again, without seeing the documents, I'm not going to draw a conclusion one way or the other at this point. I've learned in Michaelville nothing is always as it appears on the surface. :lol: Imma sit tight on this one before I take that farewell drink. lol Either way, bring on 2009. :punk:
 
The information is all there. Even without the documents, it can be derived from the info on screen, what happened. Saying it isn't so is fighting against windmills.

That's not to say it's not the end of an era.
 
wow!!! that's all I can say


I know Mike had very little reason to keep it but I always wanted Neverland to turn into a Michael Jackson memoralbelia place.. Like fans visit etc.. Simular to Graceland today..

oh well! As long as Mike is happy with the choice..
 
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MJJC MOD 1 said:
Because Sycamore Valley Ranch Company went ahead and filed these papers:

UCC Assignment and a UCC Termination
Substitution Trustee
Assignment Deed Of Trust
Grant Deed - where Michael grants the deed to Sycamore.


All should go here: http://www.sb-democracy.com/opis/ and type in Sycamore. Answers to all the questions can be answered.

I think. . . . :doh:

That O in the legend means grantor/debtor/SELLER/TRANSFEROR/defendant/trustor.
Click to expand...


Okay, I apologize I didn't read the thread in full. There's lots of pages and posts and I have a ton of work on my desk I should be doing. lol I went straight to the site and obviously missed a few things in here. My bad. :blush:

I'm still not able to really review everything at the mo but again, if it's clear that it's been sold, then cool. Please disregard all most posts in this thread. eek! :doh:
 
Ok, I have read a lot of information on this thread and I have a question or a few questions:

Neverland is a state of mind, according to the author of the book "Peter Pan". Now when fans say that NL is not Michael, do you mean emotionally and mentally? Becuase if that is what you mean, then saying that NL is a "state of mind" is basically the same thing as saying NL is MJ, emotinally and mentally. Or am I lost? I am a bit confused here.
 
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