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The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and Other Theories

Re: The hoax site...

:cry: why did I come on this thread. I know michael wouldn't upset his fans like this. I believe he is in a better place. there is no way michael jackson could HIDE in this world. impossible. i think,
 
Re: The hoax site...

MJmakesmeDance said:
these things make it virtually impossible to pull this off:

1. the los angeles coroners office received a body and autopsied the body. the body was of course dead and had to be identified through dental, dna, etc etc. they had MJ's body. the coroner isn't going to accept a dead body that isn't proven to be that of the decedent. (i wish they could but they cannot)
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Obviously if the coroners office did receive a body this hoax theory ends. But the bit in bold - I don't think this happens because there are stories of people thinking thier relatives are dead and then they actually aren't. There was a man who they thought was killed by a car/truck, his mother identified the body as his son, they had a funeral in the next couple of days and her son turned up.. alive.. to his own funeral. The body wasn't him. His mother said when she identified him she didn't really want to look and thats how she made the mistake.

2. there would have to be so many people involved: police, paramedics, helicopter personal, UCLA doctors, specialists.
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This is true.


elusive moonwalker said:
things like this arent good for fans. being in denial etc
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Being in denial isn't good no, but if you look at some people its more that people are noticing things that don't add up and are asking questions about it.

Personally I don't know why Kenny Ortega chose that 'secret' clip they put at the end of the credits where Michael says something like 'let me breathe and in my own time I'll come back'. That really teases fans and makes them think things.

Like other people have mentioned, I don't get why MJ said this on the tour website :

''This Is It! The Time Has Come. It is now i see and feel that calling once again, to be part of a music that will not just connect but, make all feel one, one in joy, one in pain, one in love, one in service and in consciousness.'' ~ Michael Jackson
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First let me say I have a REALLY hard time believing Michael would put people through a pre-planned hoax, I just don't think that is MJ...

...but I can understand why he would say he wanted to make all feel 'one in joy' by doing the concerts... but I have to say I agree with others who have said why would he say when announcing a concert that it was time to be 'one in pain', I thought that was strange at the time. I wonder why he said that, what he actually was meaning? Maybe someone can tell me. I can understand 'one in love'..L.O.V.E...

This doesn't prove he's alive, its just something strange, and could be explained in a reasonable way.

Again let me stress I can't see this being pre-planned and him putting his fans through this, he loved us all so much he wouldn't purposely hurt us. I think the only reason he'd hoax his death was if his life was in serious danger and he had no other choice.

His family's reactions at the funeral/memorial are the only things which prove to me that he has passed.

I think most people who are involved 'hoax investigation' aren't trying to force people to think MJ is alive, they are just pointing out strange things and things which don't appear to make sense. I'm open minded to everything.. conspiracy, murder, hoax, accident.. as long as there is info to back it up.
 
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Re: The hoax site...

Rockin. said:
Obviously if the coroners office did receive a body this hoax theory ends. But the bit in bold - I don't think this happens because there are stories of people thinking thier relatives are dead and then they actually aren't. There was a man who they thought was killed by a car/truck, his mother identified the body as his son, they had a funeral in the next couple of days and her son turned up.. alive.. to his own funeral. The body wasn't him. His mother said when she identified him she didn't really want to look and thats how she made the mistake.



This is true.




Being in denial isn't good no, but if you look at some people its more that people are noticing things that don't add up and are asking questions about it.

Personally I don't know why Kenny Ortega chose that 'secret' clip they put at the end of the credits where Michael says something like 'let me breathe and in my own time I'll come back'. That really teases fans and makes them think things.

Like other people have mentioned, I don't get why MJ said this on the tour website :



First let me say I have a REALLY hard time believing Michael would put people through a pre-planned hoax, I just don't think that is MJ...

...but I can understand why he would say he wanted to make all feel 'one in joy' by doing the concerts... but I have to say I agree with others who have said why would he say when announcing a concert that it was time to be 'one in pain', I thought that was strange at the time. I wonder why he said that, what he actually was meaning? Maybe someone can tell me. I can understand 'one in love'..L.O.V.E...

This doesn't prove he's alive, its just something strange, and could be explained in a reasonable way.

Again let me stress I can't see this being pre-planned and him putting his fans through this, he loved us all so much he wouldn't purposely hurt us. I think the only reason he'd hoax his death was if his life was in serious danger and he had no other choice.

His family's reactions at the funeral/memorial are the only things which prove to me that he has passed.

I think most people who are involved 'hoax investigation' aren't trying to force people to think MJ is alive, they are just pointing out strange things and things which don't appear to make sense.
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Well said, Rockin. Some people think that if you question MJ's death, you're automatically some crazy obsessive fan in denial.But the truth is that some of us are just looking for answers even in the unlikeliest of places.

You never know what you'll find.
 
Re: The hoax site...

...but I can understand why he would say he wanted to make all feel 'one in joy' by doing the concerts... but I have to say I agree with others who have said why would he say when announcing a concert that it was time to be 'one in pain', I thought that was strange at the time. I wonder why he said that, what he actually was meaning? Maybe someone can tell me. I can understand 'one in love'..L.O.V.E...
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One in pain? Is that something he said in TII? I must have missed that :unsure:
 
Re: The hoax site...

Kane said:
One in pain? Is that something he said in TII? I must have missed that :unsure:
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It wasn't in the movie it was on the official tour website - the one with the red background that had the videos of the dancer auditions etc. and where we voted for the songs we wanted to hear... where we got the info for refunds/tickets. (michaeljacksonlive.com)

If you search the full quote in google the site will come up.. but when I click a link I can't see the quote on the site anymore.

edit: it is also on the official michaeljackson.com site under the 'news' section - april 14 2009
 
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Re: The hoax site...

Rockin. said:
It wasn't in the movie it was on the official tour website - the one with the red background that had the videos of the dancer auditions etc. and where we voted for the songs we wanted to hear... where we got the info for refunds/tickets.

If you search the full quote in google the site will come up.. but when I click a link I can't see the quote on the site anymore.
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Ah right, thanks. I wasn't the one who organised the tickets so wouldn't know about that. I did google "Michael Jackson one in pain" though and it came up with this

One in Joy, One in Pain, One in Love, One in Service, One in Consciousness
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Is that the quote? To me it sounds like "Be as one" or something like that. Like he shares his life with us and we all share ours with him. Like we're all together and erm... well... "as one". I could be wrong but that's what I get from that :)
 
Re: The hoax site...

Kane said:
Ah right, thanks. I wasn't the one who organised the tickets so wouldn't know about that. I did google "Michael Jackson one in pain" though and it came up with this

Is that the quote? To me it sounds like "Be as one" or something like that. Like he shares his life with us and we all share ours with him. Like we're all together and erm... well... "as one". I could be wrong but that's what I get from that :)
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Well yup this is the full quote that was on the site -

''This Is It! The Time Has Come. It is now i see and feel that calling once again, to be part of a music that will not just connect but, make all feel one, one in joy, one in pain, one in love, one in service and in consciousness.'' ~ Michael Jackson

If you copy and paste all that into google it takes you to the mj site, but the quote isn't actually there now.

OK I get what you're saying & where you're coming from.. sharing our lives as one in the ups and the downs? suppose that could be why he said he felt the calling once again to be part of a music that will make us feel one in pain.. like we aren't alone in any pain we may be feeling..?

MJJ7777 said:
Well said, Rockin. Some people think that if you question MJ's death, you're automatically some crazy obsessive fan in denial.But the truth is that some of us are just looking for answers even in the unlikeliest of places.

You never know what you'll find.
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Yeh, I think it is ok to question things if they don't appear to add up. Not everyone is going off baseless beliefs, some appear to be doing detailed research into a whole range various things..from videos to legal contracts and other documents, background research on various people. By all means people can disagree but I don't think it is fair to label people as in denial because that doesn't represent all of these people.
 
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Re: The hoax site...

Oh yeh..

Around 4.07 'yeh so chris and the other people that were there that day and the other d--..and..er..and er..'

Hmm, I wonder what he could be referring to.. thoughts?

What could be an explanation?
 
Re: The hoax site...

Maybe because the press were following Michaels every move, they never left him alone so of course they were going to be there on more then one occasion i dont understand how that is relevant??
 
Re: The hoax site...

.. I think because he was talking about how much money they got for the picture of Michael in the ambulance on that day, the interviewer asked him how much he got for that photo and he said 'the people that were there that day..(and then for some reason begins to say) and the other d-- (stops and then stumbles his words)'

Corse this doesn't prove anything but I do wonder what 'other day' he means.
 
Re: The hoax site...

I dont think this means anything i think he just stumbles his words it happens!!

I would love to think Michael is still alive and when i watch these hoax videos i am looking for proof that he is i want to see something that makes me go yes he is alive thank god for that however i have seen nothing that i can honestly say proves anything for me!!
 
Re: The hoax site...

michaels wendy bird said:
I dont think this means anything i think he just stumbles his words it happens
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Could be. I don't know.

i am looking for proof that he is i want to see something that makes me go yes he is alive thank god for that
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Me too hun. I haven't seen any single thing that makes me say 'yes he is alive' but I have seen some things (not all hoax related things) that make me go 'hmm..' or 'thats strange'.. but there can be reasonable explanations for everything.
 
Re: The hoax site...

elusive moonwalker said:
things like this arent good for fans. being in denial etc
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Being in denial would mean you imply you know MJ is dead. Well you don't know, you assume because that is what the television showed you and the newspapers said.

I said this before, and I'll make it blunt so you get it. I don't give a flying fuck if he is alive or not, so this is not some denial mission I am on. I love MJ, but I don't know him so if he is alive that doesn't change my life one bit as his death didn't do. But I know a hoax and a lie when I see one.

I just looked at the evidence and my sensible logical mind told me that these things are not random and to many things can not be dismissed. MJ doesn't have a valid death sertificate. That alone is very important, and no I don't say that proves he is alive, but the moment you thought that you forgot about the other stuff, equally convincing. Put two and two together. Think!

The only people who are getting this are the one's trained in investigation and thinking logically.

The method to use in any investigation is the Scientific Method. This method does not allow for personal feelings or being in denial. It relies on empirical observation and evaluation of facts.

Look up the word empirical and while you're at it look up Scientific Method.

Don't tell people they are in denial, because you do not know anything to know if anyone are or not.
 
Re: The hoax site...

TheBob said:
Being in denial would mean you imply you know MJ is dead. Well you don't know, you assume because that is what the television showed you and the newspapers said.

I said this before, and I'll make it blunt so you get it. I don't give a flying fuck if he is alive or not, so this is not some denial mission I am on. I love MJ, but I don't know him so if he is alive that doesn't change my life one bit as his death didn't do. But I know a hoax and a lie when I see one.

I just looked at the evidence and my sensible logical mind told me that these things are not random and to many things can not be dismissed. MJ doesn't have a valid death sertificate. That alone is very important, and no I don't say that proves he is alive, but the moment you thought that you forgot about the other stuff, equally convincing. Put two and two together. Think!

The only people who are getting this are the one's trained in investigation and thinking logically.

The method to use in any investigation is the Scientific Method. This method does not allow for personal feelings or being in denial. It relies on empirical observation and evaluation of facts.

Look up the word empirical and while you're at it look up Scientific Method.

Don't tell people they are in denial, because you do not know anything to know if anyone are or not.
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Wow if you dont give a flying F**K as you put it urself why are u so hell bent on proving he is alive and this is all one big hoax??? Just curious!

Oh and Rockin you are right somethings are a bit fishy but that to me is not enough to say Michael is alive however much i wish it would!! :(
 
Re: The hoax site...

MJmakesmeDance said:
these things make it virtually impossible to pull this off:

1. the los angeles coroners office received a body and autopsied the body. the body was of course dead and had to be identified through dental, dna, etc etc. they had MJ's body. the coroner isn't going to accept a dead body that isn't proven to be that of the decedent. (i wish they could but they cannot)
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They would automatically do this for every body they receive? They actually test the DNA? Is this true?

2. there would have to be so many people involved: police, paramedics, helicopter personal, UCLA doctors, specialists.
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You have a point here.

3. the blood and dna had to be proven. they do a MULTITUDE of testing to make sure the body is positively identified.
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This brings me back to my question - do they actually DNA test every body that comes into the morgue??
 
Re: The hoax site...

And one last thing. The common argument this is not a hoax is the "He wouldn't do this to his fans"

Yes he loved his fans, but come on. Grow up. The man lived his entire life in fame and was beaten down at the end. You honestly think he has some kind of responsibility to his fans? Is Michael Jackson the possesion of the fans? WTF?

He can do whatever he wants, and if he was fed up with this life, and maybe ill then yes he would fake his death to get away. You really think he would do this without letting the family know, his kids? Off course not, they are in on it. Paris was recieving instructions right before she spoke, you see it in the video she has a microphone in her ear and she has another one in her purse where she can speak. You see her almost speaking into the purse also and Janet looks at her and Paris looks at her and smiles.

This is one of hundreds of things that stand out in the memorial.

Not gonna go into the other stuff, look for yourself.

But understand this. Michael does not ow us anything and we do not have a right in saying what he should do. If he wants to fuck off and fool his fans and the world thinking he is dead then that is his choice.

The thing I can garantee you means more to MJ is his kids and his family.

He did it not just for himself but for them. Understand and accept. He is gone but he is not dead.

He has 20-30 years left to live, and I bet he wants to live those years in peace.

No matter how much we look and not matter how much we know, he ain't coming back.

And I grant him that. Let him live and if you discover what so many have, come to peace that he wants to be free. Let him do that.

And stay off the psychic channels please, those guys are out to fool you and get your money.

The reason I get banned for speaking out about that is because the board has no freaking clue.

I worked in a business that exposed hoaxers, so I know how this works.

The psychic business is a scam business, and if you want to learn how to detect such things, start with this. Ask such a person how they know, and if you get this answer "I don't feel I have to explain myself, but I did feel his presence" then you have yourself a hoaxer, or someone deeply disturbed.

Go from there and learn how these bastards do their business, and don't fall for their tricks.
 
Re: The hoax site...

Kane said:
So saying you know he's alive isn't being in denial?
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Don't turn this around. I don't know if he is alive, but I have a very good reason to think so. I was answering back at the denial post, because you know he is dead as much as I know he is alive.

There is no physical proof he is dead, and there is no physical proof he is alive. But there is proof that the information that has told us he is dead is fabricated. From that I can extrapolate a hypothesis that this is a hoax, and the probability that I am right is greater then the probability then I am wrong. I only need one piece of evidence to state that, and I or should I say a lot of people have more then one. And they are not minor mistakes or random things.

And the only people qualified to argue against this are the people who have exmained the evidence themself. Those who have not can stay out of it.
 
Re: The hoax site...

LindaC781 said:
If this "hoax" is true, then where is he?
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That's exactly what I keep thinking.
If he did it for peace then he's got no chance. How fun it would be spending the next 20 - 30+ years being confined to a house without being able to even go into your garden to play with your children.

And if he has infact faked his own death to be at peace and finally away from the world, why are you investigating it?!
 
Re: The hoax site...

Kane said:
That's exactly what I keep thinking.
If he did it for peace then he's got no chance. How fun it would be spending the next 20 - 30+ years being confined to a house without being able to even go into your garden to play with your children.

And if he has infact faked his own death to be at peace and finally away from the world, why are you investigating it?!
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LOL!! You got a point there too!

However, I want to know. MJ has had a lot of impersonators, and this is master showman MJ you are talking about. So, if some body that looked like MJ were to be delivered to the coroner, who's to say they doubted it was him? Why would they go through expensive DNA testing to prove that the body in the morgue was indeed MJ? I've heard of them doing DNA testing for mutilated remains, or skeletal remains - but that was because the identity of the victim was unknown. So who's to say they would do this on one they assume was MJ?

My take? It may not have been MJ, yet no expensive DNA testing was done to prove the body in the morgue was MJ. That leaves us with all of these questions.
 
Re: The hoax site...

Hmmm, that's an interesting point there Linda. I'm not too sure if they did any DNA tests, I'll see if I can find anything out, there must be something mentioned on here somewhere about that.
 
Re: The hoax site...

We don't know if there was a body, we have only been told that there was.
We were also told there was 1 state autopsy and 2 private autopsies.
We haven't had an official autopsy result released.. all we've had is 2 'leaked' autopsies which have been quite different to each other.
If Michael's life was in danger these agencies could help him 'disappear'...'to a place without no name'.. similar to the place in the email Linda recieved and posted months ago. (by the way, how come a snippit of that song was released after his death and then never heard of again?)

Oh and DNA testing - no that doesn't happen in these situations..all that is needed is identification by family member/friend. Hence the story I posted earlier.

Despite whatever I see that doesn't make sense to me...I can NOT accept that Paris was acting, you can see her emotion, you can feel it, and even speculating on that doesn't feel right. The emotion of Paris and Katherine are the only things which tell me he passed.. other than those two, there are a lot of things that seem strange...but again, that doesn't mean these 'strange things' can't be explained.
 
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Re: The hoax site...

LindaC781 said:
LOL!! You got a point there too!

However, I want to know. MJ has had a lot of impersonators, and this is master showman MJ you are talking about. So, if some body that looked like MJ were to be delivered to the coroner, who's to say they doubted it was him? Why would they go through expensive DNA testing to prove that the body in the morgue was indeed MJ? I've heard of them doing DNA testing for mutilated remains, or skeletal remains - but that was because the identity of the victim was unknown. So who's to say they would do this on one they assume was MJ?

My take? It may not have been MJ, yet no expensive DNA testing was done to prove the body in the morgue was MJ. That leaves us with all of these questions.
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Dead body of impersonator? :unsure:
 
Re: The hoax site...

Kane said:
Hmmm, that's an interesting point there Linda. I'm not too sure if they did any DNA tests, I'll see if I can find anything out, there must be something mentioned on here somewhere about that.
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This is my theory. Either MJ went through yet even more extensive plastic surgery, to look like someone totally different so he can walk amongst us undetected, OR MJ mingles with the other impersonators walking around out there to remain undetected. Take your pick.
 
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