Medical experts opinions about the case and medical information

Re: Had another talk with a medical worker

If that scenario is correct. The lawyer for Murray said that Murray did not give that timeline to police. I myself, cannot imagine that they just made it up. but if the timeline is correct, I think it is very strange (but I am not in the medical field).
 
Re: Had another talk with a medical worker

The timeline is all over the place. Murray and his team say they never gave it and the police said, uh, yes he did. It will come out in court what happened and expose the liar than Murray is.
 
Re: Had another talk with a medical worker

Murray's lawyer first said that Murray never said he found Michael at eleven he said it was twelve. His other lawyer said to radaronline that Murray made mistakes when talking to the cops something he tried to deny but the interview was taped. And remember the coroner said lorazepam was a factor in his death.
 
Re: Had another talk with a medical worker

so it is impossible that MJ injected himself with propofol and lorazepam at the same time and then this myth is gonna be completely rejected by court or anyone else IF it will be used by the defence.
 
Re: Had another talk with a medical worker

Couple things I wanted to add (also a physician) although i have NOT read the autopsy (can't and don't want to)...

Comments such as this only scare people and, in my opinion, are not based on fact or science.


This doesn't really tell me much because
a) lorazepam may have only been tested in those blood samples. If the samples were positive for benzo (lorazepam), they may have just said "he's got benzos in his system"
b) if propofol was the culprit (and we all think it was), after cardiac arrest, the blood doesn't go anywhere. Nothing gets metabolized or cleared by the body. so it seems to make sense that it was present in whatever amounts that it was. it's also possible the concentrations are higher than expected because of that fact.

I'm not a toxicology expert, but this is the way I interpret these comments. I would be happy to answer/clarify more questions, but I forget to check this forum! I'm usually reading the General discussion or News forums...

I respect your opinion, but I made the lethal injection comment from reading the autopsy, researching the drugs, and examining Murray's sequence of giving the drugs. I have no intention to scare or to hurt my fellow MJ fans in any way. That's why I did not go into details of it either.

The lethal injection comment was based from comparing Murray's medical protocol with others. Since you're a physician, here's a summary,

Surgery: benzo (e.g. midazolam)--->propofol or thiopental---> surgical procedure http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2763279/?tool=pmcentrez

Lethal injection: thiopental---> barb or (benzo (in ohio protocol))---> Kcl
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2006/us0406/3.htm#_ftnref12

Murray: propofol ---> benzo (lorazepam) ---> synergistic effect - the Kcl would raise suspicion
(autopsy report)

The problem is Murray and his team are giving us stories because of the educational differences between us fans and doctors such as him; however, most of us know that most physicians did biochemistry in their first year of med school in addition to gross anatomy. That's why they are able to know and to determine which drugs they will prescribe or will use on their patients.
 
Re: Had another talk with a medical worker

I do not know anything about what reason dr. Murray gave us. Do you mean a rumor that MJ injected himself? It is already has been cleared up by Murray's lawyer that they are not using it as defense. TMZ is wrong which does not surprise me.

yeah that mj injected. from the begining murrays lawyers have showed this. by stating"murray gave nothing that should have killed mj" and when the COD was given murrays lawyers told the police/D.A to release the amounts that were found in mjs system. this all supports the defence that murray will accuse mj. also if u read the statement by the lawyer i dont beleive he actually denies that it will be the defence. everything thats been coming from tmz lately has been leaked by the defence imo. from info about how hes feeling to court info. to all this defence stuff. all seems obvious to me
 
Re: Had another talk with a medical worker

I respect your opinion, but I made the lethal injection comment from reading the autopsy, researching the drugs, and examining Murray's sequence of giving the drugs. I have no intention to scare or to hurt my fellow MJ fans in any way. That's why I did not go into details of it either.

The lethal injection comment was based from comparing Murray's medical protocol with others. Since you're a physician, here's a summary,

Surgery: benzo (e.g. midazolam)--->propofol or thiopental---> surgical procedure http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2763279/?tool=pmcentrez

Lethal injection: thiopental---> barb or (benzo (in ohio protocol))---> Kcl
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2006/us0406/3.htm#_ftnref12

Murray: propofol ---> benzo (lorazepam) ---> synergistic effect - the Kcl would raise suspicion
(autopsy report)

The problem is Murray and his team are giving us stories because of the educational differences between us fans and doctors such as him; however, most of us know that most physicians did biochemistry in their first year of med school in addition to gross anatomy. That's why they are able to know and to determine which drugs they will prescribe or will use on their patients.

Ya, sorry I didn't mean to call you out specifically. I don't feel that you or other people are trying to deliberately scare others here. But I think some people do take things badly. I think right now we're just guessing as to what really happened. Once we have a timeline that is agreed upon (and this might never be the case), I think we can then dissect the timing of different drugs and debate whether those are true. Murder and a larger conspiracy behind this doctor to kill Michael are possible. I'm not saying they aren't. But it's also very very possible (or in fact very probable) that what happened was completely secondary to the adverse effects of propofol. And the effect may not have been intentional on the part of the doctor. There's a reason propofol should be given in monitored settings (i.e. ICU, OR, etc.). This doctor broke the Hippocratic oath on so many levels by giving propofol period. For that he is guilty. The rest, I think we need more information on.
 
Re: Had another talk with a medical worker

Get over your fear and read the report the only way to get over your fear. As a doctor I am sure it is not the first one you saw. I have a question he says he gave Michael the Liz at five in the morning and versus at seven. Don't you has a doctor find it strange that the loz did not move in five hours?

I don't want to read it because I want to respect Michael's privacy.
 
Re: Had another talk with a medical worker

So that means that Murray injected him with benzo? He did not do it himself. If Murray did not do it as he claims so who did?
I have no comments on "sudden breathing distress" .:no: I pray he did not feel anything at his last minutes.:cry:

A. Yes

B. Good question
 
Re: Had another talk with a medical worker

I respect your opinion, but I made the lethal injection comment from reading the autopsy, researching the drugs, and examining Murray's sequence of giving the drugs. I have no intention to scare or to hurt my fellow MJ fans in any way. That's why I did not go into details of it either.

The lethal injection comment was based from comparing Murray's medical protocol with others. Since you're a physician, here's a summary,

Surgery: benzo (e.g. midazolam)--->propofol or thiopental---> surgical procedure http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2763279/?tool=pmcentrez

Lethal injection: thiopental---> barb or (benzo (in ohio protocol))---> Kcl
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2006/us0406/3.htm#_ftnref12

Murray: propofol ---> benzo (lorazepam) ---> synergistic effect - the Kcl would raise suspicion
(autopsy report)

The problem is Murray and his team are giving us stories because of the educational differences between us fans and doctors such as him; however, most of us know that most physicians did biochemistry in their first year of med school in addition to gross anatomy. That's why they are able to know and to determine which drugs they will prescribe or will use on their patients.

Ya, sorry I didn't mean to call you out specifically. I don't feel that you or other people are trying to deliberately scare others here. But I think some people do take things badly. I think right now we're just guessing as to what really happened. Once we have a timeline that is agreed upon (and this might never be the case), I think we can then dissect the timing of different drugs and debate whether those are true. Murder and a larger conspiracy behind this doctor to kill Michael are possible. I'm not saying they aren't. But it's also very very possible (or in fact very probable) that what happened was completely secondary to the adverse effects of propofol. And the effect may not have been intentional on the part of the doctor. There's a reason propofol should be given in monitored settings (i.e. ICU, OR, etc.). This doctor broke the Hippocratic oath on so many levels by giving propofol period. For that he is guilty. The rest, I think we need more information on.

Oh. my. God.
 
Re: Had another talk with a medical worker

So that means that Murray injected him with benzo? He did not do it himself. If Murray did not do it as he claims so who did?
murrays has never said he didint inject the benzos. he said he did and gave amounts (which contridicted what was found).he said he injected diprivan and gave amounts which contridict what was found. his excuse for the difference in dip levels is cause mj gave it to himself. hes given no reason re the benzo levels
 
Re: Had another talk with a medical worker

murrays has never said he didint inject the benzos. he said he did and gave amounts (which contridicted what was found).he said he injected diprivan and gave amounts which contridict what was found. his excuse for the difference in dip levels is cause mj gave it to himself. hes given no reason re the benzo levels

Oh I'm sure the defense will come up with a stupid reason why Murray gave someone 4 different benzos in one night. Maybe MJ gave them to himself too :rolleyes:
 
Medical experts opinions about the case

http://www.hotmommagossip.com/2010/...el-jackson’s-physician-dr-conrad-murray-will/

Expert Anesthesiologist Thinks Michael Jackson’s Physician, Dr. Conrad Murray Will Go to Jail

(HMG) – With strong emotions both for and against Michael Jackson’s Physician, Dr. Conrad Murray, it is interesting to see what a colleague in his field thinks about his responsibility in the stars untimely death. In the hours before his death, Michael Jackson was treated to a buffet of tranquilizers, prescription drugs and a drug that is rarely administered outside the parameters of hospital and clinic-based medical procedures — propofol. It’s the use of that final drug, and the rumors of Jackson ’s love for the sleep inducer, which he called his “milk,” that makes Dr. Barry Friedberg, a veteran anesthesiologist and author of the book Getting Over Going Under (www.drbarryfriedberg.com), believe that the pop star’s death was imminently preventable and unnecessary.

“To say that Michael Jackson’s death was preventable is to say that the best way to avoid injury is not to jump off a cliff,” said Dr. Friedberg. “While there may be little difference in the logistics of administering propofol in a hospital and administering it in a private setting — as was the case with Jackson — it is not intended to be used as an intravenous sleeping pill. Propofol is a serious drug that is amazingly effective and gentle when used appropriately in surgical procedures. Dr. Murray was essentially enabling Jackson to use it like it was an over-the-counter pain reliever.”

Dr. Friedberg, who also runs a not-for-profit advocacy group that extols the virtues of brain monitors as a standard of care device for anesthesiologists, is closely watching Dr. Murray’s case. He believes that Dr. Murray, whose preliminary hearing on charges of involuntary manslaughter is set for August 23, will definitely be spending some time in prison for his role in Jackson’s death.

“The only way he walks away from this is in an orange jumpsuit and irons,” said Dr. Friedberg. “Although he may not have intended to kill Jackson, Murray clearly caused Jackson’s death involuntarily. What would have prevented Jackson’s death? A knowledgeable physician who, at the very least, both watched Jackson and monitored his oxygen would have not put his patient in mortal danger. If he wanted to be more responsible, he could have used a brain monitor to measure the propofol effect, and as a result, he would have prevented administering the dose that stopped Jackson’s breathing.”




According to court documents, Dr. Friedberg said some elements of the case are indisputable:

  • Propofol is the last of a series of drugs Dr. Murray admitted to giving Jackson.
  • Murray admitted being out of the room shortly after giving Jackson the propofol.
  • Propofol is the drug the Los Angeles coroner declared was the cause of Jackson’s death.
“Let me emphatically state that since its 1989 introduction to the North American market, tens (if not hundreds) of millions of patients have safely received propofol,” he said. “It was safe because someone was watching and monitoring these patients, which represent two features apparently absent in Michael Jackson’s bedroom the day he died. Until recently, propofol has only been given by dedicated, trained anesthesia providers like anesthesiologists, nurse anesthetists or even anesthesia assistants under supervision. When given for surgery, propofol is always monitored with electrocardiogram (EKG), blood pressure and pulse oximeter (SpO2). Neither of these devices was apparently in use when Dr. Murray administered the fatal dose. At this point, I don’t think it’s a matter if Dr. Murray is convicted. It’s a matter of when, and how long he will spend behind bars for his irresponsible and unconscionable conduct that is a disgrace to the vast majority of practicing physicians who remain true to their oaths to do no harm.”

About Dr. Barry Friedberg
A native of southeastern Pennsylvania, Barry L. Friedberg, MD (www.drbarryfriedberg.com), came to Palo Alto, California in 1975 to complete his formal education with an anesthesia residency at Stanford University. Following the successful completion of his residency and the requirements of the American Board of Anesthesiology, Dr. Friedberg became a Board Certified (or Diplomate) Anesthesiologist in April 1980. He has also lectured on safer, simpler, cost-effective and better patient outcomes to anesthesiologists and surgeons in the United States, Canada, Mexico, the Dominican Republic, Israel and Venezuela.

:clapping:Finally a medical expert stating the obvious, how anyone could excuse murray's actions is beyond me. Hopefully more experts will be writing about Murray's reckless behavior and how Michael is the actual victim as the trial nears and progresses. The only thing i would change in this article is that Murray voluntarily caused Michael's death not involuntarily and that's why this should be 2nd degree murder, what he was doing was so reckless he had to know he was putting Michael's life in danger.
 
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Re: Expert Anesthesiologist Thinks Dr. Conrad Murray Will Go To Jail

2nd degree, and after that, they can bump it up to first degree once more info begins coming out about EVERYONE involved, Thome....extra security...etc...
 
Re: Expert Anesthesiologist Thinks Dr. Conrad Murray Will Go To Jail

http://www.hotmommagossip.com/2010/...el-jackson’s-physician-dr-conrad-murray-will/

Expert Anesthesiologist Thinks Michael Jackson’s Physician, Dr. Conrad Murray Will Go to Jail

(HMG) – With strong emotions both for and against Michael Jackson’s Physician, Dr. Conrad Murray, it is interesting to see what a colleague in his field thinks about his responsibility in the stars untimely death. In the hours before his death, Michael Jackson was treated to a buffet of tranquilizers, prescription drugs and a drug that is rarely administered outside the parameters of hospital and clinic-based medical procedures — propofol. It’s the use of that final drug, and the rumors of Jackson ’s love for the sleep inducer, which he called his “milk,” that makes Dr. Barry Friedberg, a veteran anesthesiologist and author of the book Getting Over Going Under (www.drbarryfriedberg.com), believe that the pop star’s death was imminently preventable and unnecessary.

“To say that Michael Jackson’s death was preventable is to say that the best way to avoid injury is not to jump off a cliff,” said Dr. Friedberg. “While there may be little difference in the logistics of administering propofol in a hospital and administering it in a private setting — as was the case with Jackson — it is not intended to be used as an intravenous sleeping pill. Propofol is a serious drug that is amazingly effective and gentle when used appropriately in surgical procedures. Dr. Murray was essentially enabling Jackson to use it like it was an over-the-counter pain reliever.”

Dr. Friedberg, who also runs a not-for-profit advocacy group that extols the virtues of brain monitors as a standard of care device for anesthesiologists, is closely watching Dr. Murray’s case. He believes that Dr. Murray, whose preliminary hearing on charges of involuntary manslaughter is set for August 23, will definitely be spending some time in prison for his role in Jackson’s death.

“The only way he walks away from this is in an orange jumpsuit and irons,” said Dr. Friedberg. “Although he may not have intended to kill Jackson, Murray clearly caused Jackson’s death involuntarily. What would have prevented Jackson’s death? A knowledgeable physician who, at the very least, both watched Jackson and monitored his oxygen would have not put his patient in mortal danger. If he wanted to be more responsible, he could have used a brain monitor to measure the propofol effect, and as a result, he would have prevented administering the dose that stopped Jackson’s breathing.”




According to court documents, Dr. Friedberg said some elements of the case are indisputable:

  • Propofol is the last of a series of drugs Dr. Murray admitted to giving Jackson.
  • Murray admitted being out of the room shortly after giving Jackson the propofol.
  • Propofol is the drug the Los Angeles coroner declared was the cause of Jackson’s death.
“Let me emphatically state that since its 1989 introduction to the North American market, tens (if not hundreds) of millions of patients have safely received propofol,” he said. “It was safe because someone was watching and monitoring these patients, which represent two features apparently absent in Michael Jackson’s bedroom the day he died. Until recently, propofol has only been given by dedicated, trained anesthesia providers like anesthesiologists, nurse anesthetists or even anesthesia assistants under supervision. When given for surgery, propofol is always monitored with electrocardiogram (EKG), blood pressure and pulse oximeter (SpO2). Neither of these devices was apparently in use when Dr. Murray administered the fatal dose. At this point, I don’t think it’s a matter if Dr. Murray is convicted. It’s a matter of when, and how long he will spend behind bars for his irresponsible and unconscionable conduct that is a disgrace to the vast majority of practicing physicians who remain true to their oaths to do no harm.”

About Dr. Barry Friedberg
A native of southeastern Pennsylvania, Barry L. Friedberg, MD (www.drbarryfriedberg.com), came to Palo Alto, California in 1975 to complete his formal education with an anesthesia residency at Stanford University. Following the successful completion of his residency and the requirements of the American Board of Anesthesiology, Dr. Friedberg became a Board Certified (or Diplomate) Anesthesiologist in April 1980. He has also lectured on safer, simpler, cost-effective and better patient outcomes to anesthesiologists and surgeons in the United States, Canada, Mexico, the Dominican Republic, Israel and Venezuela.

:clapping:Finally a medical expert stating the obvious, how anyone could excuse murray's actions is beyond me. Hopefully more experts will be writing about Murray's reckless behavior and how Michael is the actual victim as the trial nears and progresses. The only thing i would change in this article is that Murray voluntarily caused Michael's death not involuntarily and that's why this should be 2nd degree murder, what he was doing was so reckless he had to know he was putting Michael's life in danger.

2nd degree, and after that, they can bump it up to first degree once more info begins coming out about EVERYONE involved, Thome....extra security...etc...

PLEASE DO, bring on the charges cause I want to see that b**t**d in prison.
 
Re: Expert Anesthesiologist Thinks Dr. Conrad Murray Will Go To Jail

thank you for posting this article! I am glad to see that medical professionals have started to come forward with their opinion on this. I just wish more mainstream media (like CNN etc) invinted them so that more of the general public heard them.

I am more and more convinced it should be second degree. Is it even possible to up the charge after the person was charged with a lesser charge already?
 
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Re: Expert Anesthesiologist Thinks Dr. Conrad Murray Will Go To Jail

2nd degree, and after that, they can bump it up to first degree once more info begins coming out about EVERYONE involved, Thome....extra security...etc...
If more evidence comes out then I agree.
 
Re: Expert Anesthesiologist Thinks Dr. Conrad Murray Will Go To Jail

I am more and more convinced it should be second degree. Is it even possible to up the charge after the person was charged with a lesser charge already?

yes, if evidence comes out during trial that is enough for that.
 
Re: Expert Anesthesiologist Thinks Dr. Conrad Murray Will Go To Jail

I sincerely hope medical experts will step forward in trial and make statements to that effect.
It is the only sensible approach of a responsible physician. Murray disgraces the entire medical community.
 
Re: Expert Anesthesiologist Thinks Dr. Conrad Murray Will Go To Jail

I sincerely hope medical experts will step forward in trial and make statements to that effect.
the prosecution will no doubt hire many experts to say this. its a huge part of the case. the question is whether any docs will do the same for the defence.
 
Re: Expert Anesthesiologist Thinks Dr. Conrad Murray Will Go To Jail

:clapping:Finally a medical expert stating the obvious, how anyone could excuse murray's actions is beyond me. Hopefully more experts will be writing about Murray's reckless behavior and how Michael is the actual victim as the trial nears and progresses. The only thing i would change in this article is that Murray voluntarily caused Michael's death not involuntarily and that's why this should be 2nd degree murder, what he was doing was so reckless he had to know he was putting Michael's life in danger.

Yes! I will never understand how people can excuse his complete and total recklessness.
How many times have we read or heard people say, "Well, if it hadn't been him, Michael would have found another doctor to give him the propofol." He is NOT a fall-guy or scapegoat!

I am more and more convinced it should be second degree. Is it even possible to up the charge after the person was charged with a lesser charge already?

It is my deepest wish that this is the case. Second-degree is the absolute minimum charge for him, in my opinion.
 
Re: Expert Anesthesiologist Thinks Dr. Conrad Murray Will Go To Jail

Well, if it hadn't been him, Michael would have found another doctor to give him the propofol."
if only he had he wouldstil lbe here. the giving of the drug is less of an issue than the issue of not monitoring. givingt he drug is not illegal. so why some act like mj was looking for crack and would have got it off someone else anyway is a pointless argument
 
Re: Expert Anesthesiologist Thinks Dr. Conrad Murray Will Go To Jail

if only he had he wouldstil lbe here. the giving of the drug is less of an issue than the issue of not monitoring. givingt he drug is not illegal. so why some act like mj was looking for crack and would have got it off someone else anyway is a pointless argument
Actually everything is the problem. Propofol is not a bad drug but Murray is not a licensed anesthesiologist, michael did not need anesthesia because he was not having surgey and he definitely did not need it out of a hospital setting to substitute. I agree that saying he would have gotten it from someone else is uselss because he didn't, it was administered by murray so he is to blame.
 
Re: Expert Anesthesiologist Thinks Dr. Conrad Murray Will Go To Jail

yeah of course everything is the problem im just talking interms of that comment which is used when trying to imply mj was an addict
 
Re: Expert Anesthesiologist Thinks Dr. Conrad Murray Will Go To Jail

At this point, I've given up hope of charges being upped to 2nd degree. After everything that's been said from the EMT's at the scene, other medical personnel everything coincides with an almost complete disregard for a human beings life. Some higher ups just don't care for Michael, in life or death. :no:
 
Re: Expert Anesthesiologist Thinks Dr. Conrad Murray Will Go To Jail

^^^Ppl can't ignore the autopsy or the toxicology reports which clearly show Michael would have probably lived another 30 years! Murrary dissmissed that all together.
 
Re: Expert Anesthesiologist Thinks Dr. Conrad Murray Will Go To Jail

i just keep coming back to the same disapppointing fact. involuntary manslaughter is only 4 years in the US. 4 YEARS!!!???? :-/
 
Re: Expert Anesthesiologist Thinks Dr. Conrad Murray Will Go To Jail

this dr was at the court hearing promoting his book with a big banner. how pathetic can u get . only in america
 
Re: Expert Anesthesiologist Thinks Dr. Conrad Murray Will Go To Jail

It's comforting to read articles like this, yeah, but in truth, I have mixed feelings. What is right in theory can be ignored in reality. Many times, that's the way it is... No matter how many good-hearted, conscientious medical experts might come out and give their absolutely honest and precise input, the final outcome is still not guaranteed.
this dr was at the court hearing promoting his book with a big banner. how pathetic can u get . only in america
That's f***ed up.
 
Re: Expert Anesthesiologist Thinks Dr. Conrad Murray Will Go To Jail

this dr was at the court hearing promoting his book with a big banner. how pathetic can u get . only in america

it was this dr??? unbelievable :( really really upsetting.
 
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