Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / Trial date April 2, 2013

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Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

thank u. omg. i hope kids never involved it. it's too cruel.
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

someone needs to tell grandma that
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

Do we know for sure that there was no signed contract between AEG and Murray? I remember there was some unsigned contract through which Murray tried to get his salary from AEG? What if there's another contract (signed some time earlier) that wasn't made public? Is it possible?

To my knowledge, there is no signed contract between Murray and AEG. If I recall correctly, AEG never signed the contract and neither did Michael.

To me it looks like they'll argue that there was at least an oral contract that should be binding.

the filings say that on May 8th AEG confirmed the agreement in writing - which mean that AEG sent an email or a letter saying that they would hire Murray during a period of time, give him salary and benefits, provide him with this and that. Later they sent Murray a contract to sign on June 24th.

Let's look to the law.

recently the High Court of Justice in Grant v. Bragg (Jan. 22 2009) has affirmed that an oral contract, and even an unsigned contract, can be binding if there is partial performance. Under the doctrine of part performance, the plaintiff can establish the existence of an oral contract through emails, text messages, and even mere post performance. Following an oral contract, if one of the parties begins to perform his or her end of the bargain, such acts may provide reliable evidence supporting the existence of an oral contract.

however

It is therefore important for parties engaged in contract negotiations to: (1) refrain from performing any work until a final written contract is prepared and executed; and (2) ensure that all pre-contract correspondence contains a statement that any deal is "subject to the execution of a signed written contract."

Now we can see that as there's written communication (we have seen an email between AEG and Murray about the equipments in one of Joe's lawsuits) and as Murray began to provide services there's at least a binding oral contract between the parties.

However if the written contract or agreement between them said - as AEG claims - it was subject to Michael's signature/ approval then there's no binding contract between the parties.
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

Murray's defense lawyers are loving this. They have a ready made defense. They can just sit back and drink some cocktails and allow the family to have it.
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

thanks. I didn't notice that. is it significant?

no not really. it's just a different type of claim and lawsuit. both are designed to seek damages in a civil court.

I believe you need to give 90 days notice before you file wrongful death lawsuit.
 
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Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

To me it looks like they'll argue that there was at least an oral contract that should be binding.

the filings say that on May 8th AEG confirmed the agreement in writing - which mean that AEG sent an email or a letter saying that they would hire Murray during a period of time, give him salary and benefits, provide him with this and that. Later they sent Murray a contract to sign on June 24th.

Let's look to the law.

however

Now we can see that as there's written communication (we have seen an email between AEG and Murray about the equipments in one of Joe's lawsuits) and as Murray began to provide services there's at least a binding oral contract between the parties.

However if the written contract or agreement between them said - as AEG claims - it was subject to Michael's signature/ approval then there's no binding contract between the parties.

But I still see a big SO WHAT in all this. Even if they signed a contract, AEG didn't administer an overdose of propofol. A supposedly competent doctor of MJ's choosing did. Even if AEG put pressure on Murray to ensure he do whatever necessary for MJ to be able to perform, the professional doctor is responsible for the course of treatment. Not the promoter. That's why MJ wanted Murray. He thought Murray knew what he was doing and would be able to effectively treat his problem, whatever it was. I don't see how AEG is responsible for the extent of Murray's treatment. If he didn't have the right equipment, he SHOULD NOT have administered the propofol. PERIOD.
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

To me it looks like they'll argue that there was at least an oral contract that should be binding.

the filings say that on May 8th AEG confirmed the agreement in writing - which mean that AEG sent an email or a letter saying that they would hire Murray during a period of time, give him salary and benefits, provide him with this and that. Later they sent Murray a contract to sign on June 24th.

Let's look to the law.



however



Now we can see that as there's written communication (we have seen an email between AEG and Murray about the equipments in one of Joe's lawsuits) and as Murray began to provide services there's at least a binding oral contract between the parties.

However if the written contract or agreement between them said - as AEG claims - it was subject to Michael's signature/ approval then there's no binding contract between the parties.



Honestly, this sounds like the AGE lawsuit, which had no binding contract, but more of an oral agreement. From what I know an oral agreement is not binding or honored by the court of law unless witnesses testify that it even took place.

Even if it did, everything had to be approved by Michael. They could not just tell him to hire someone and Michael never signed. By that alone, Murray was not a hired by AEG or he would had been able to successfully sued them for payment.

This lawsuit is also heavily depending on the tox. They are talking as the truth Murray worked on Michael for 6 weeks before he died. Since we do not have the full tox that shows the entire drug history, we don't know how true that is. If the tox shows that Murray only gave Michael drugs on the 25, this lawsuit completely fall apart since it states that Michael was pretty much a long time addict.

I also wondered if Murray was so important, why didn't he have a blue card? Without one, he could not legally practice in London. Unless the family is trying to say that AEG had the intention of allowing him to practice without one. Which I really don't see the point.

This lawsuit also bring into question Michael's character. Namely, the family want to say he was a great dad, but allowed a company to hired people without his permission to be in his house with his kids, took drugs from a doctor he didn't hire, and allow his health to fail without seeking medical help. By the family own accounts, Michael could not had been a good father since he was unable to care for himself. If we also add this with Murray's words about Michael 'demanding' drugs, we can only really draw one conclusion.
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

For Mrs Jackson sake she better have all of her i's dotted and her t's crossed because if and when this blows up in her face AEG just might sue her for defamation not Joe not Randy and not the estate her

ITA...I can totally see AEG and even Kenny Ortega getting very angry and retaliating with a defamation suit. Right now, the Jacksons are volleying all the balls. Retaliation could get terribly ugly.
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

I also wondered if Murray was so important, why didn't he have a blue card? Without one, he could not legally practice in London. Unless the family is trying to say that AEG had the intention of allowing him to practice without one. Which I really don't see the point.

The BLUE CARD!

Can somebody please explain the "Blue Card" to me. Is it like a sort of "Passport" for doctors? Do they have to apply for one well in advance of any travel? Before you are given a Blue Card, does your medical background have to be at all investigated?

If the Blue Card is so important, why didn't Murray have one? That's another excellent question. (Thanks HeroR)
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

The BLUE CARD!

Can somebody please explain the "Blue Card" to me. Is it like a sort of "Passport" for doctors? Do they have to apply for one well in advance of any travel? Before you are given a Blue Card, does your medical background have to be at all investigated?

If the Blue Card is so important, why didn't Murray have one? That's another excellent question. (Thanks HeroR)



When I went to London for 3 months to work on my internship, I had to have a blue card. In laymen's terms, it is a work visa. Without one, you cannot legally work in another country. It is not just for doctors, it is for anyone who travels internationally. A blue card can be good for several years, much like a passport.

It can takes days or weeks to get you blue card. It really just depends. Which is why it is strange that they were going to leave for London in 8 days and Murray did not have one. Even the chief who was the last person hired had a blue card. I don't know if he has one, but I think it was stated that he didn't. Having a passport does not mean you have a blue card.



On another note, I feel more sorry for Kenny than AEG. This man had nothing but good things to say about Michael and was in tears at the mention of his name. The family even allowed him to spend time with Michael's kids. Yet, the family just threw him under the bus like trash. Not to mention what Randy did to him during Murray's first court hearing. Kenny can't even really defend himself since the PR would be terrible.
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

The defendants are being sued on the basis of breach of contract (that they needed to maintain Michael's best interest in mind but instead risked it), negligent hiring, supervising and training (didn't check Murray's background and didn't hire or stop his treatment when Michael showed negative effects) and fraud (acting like they were looking out for Michael's best interests but in reality making sure that he'll continue with the tour and AEG would profit)

Oh god...this thing makes MJ sound like a minor child. The fact is MJ DID hire Murray for his children years ago. AEG could certainly argue if MJ felt Murray was competent enough to treat his precious children, they would not question his competence for him. And since when does a promoter supervise and train a doctor.
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

Lord.. What a complete mess.. I betcha AEG and Murray are both sorry as hell that they ever got involved with MJ.. Murray killed Mike because of greed and that's the bottom line. He should've kept his greedy ass in Houston and Vegas taking care of his 'poor' patients that he loved so much.
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

All this very confusing to me, but I am also a bit surprised to see so many of us here making definitive statements when the truth is we know little for sure, if any. We were not there. All we have are the comments of different people here and there in time and sure, no question those comments can be quite confusing and do contradict each other.

I just hope this will give justice a chance.

Katherine AND the kids certainly have much more information we can even imagine. And yes, no question for a 13 years old kid being involved in legal stuff of this nature is a terrible thing to face... but let's not forget that is his father who was killed. If you knew something, if you saw something... wouldn't you want to help seeking for the truth?

Again, we don't know the facts. The kids might be being (ab)used or they might be willing to help... who can tell for sure? Just them.

So I rather wait and see and hope this will bring some justice and some truth, thought I am afraid the truth will never be known.
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

so if katherines ppl dont know anything about this lawsuit what lawyer has filed this under their names and is katherine even aware of the lawsuit. wheres it come from?

the lawsuit is a joke and 5 year old could tear it apart.i look forward to AEG doing just that. there is so much B.S in it and blatent false info. its pathetic and is just another case of throwing mj under a bus in order to make a few $.

the jacksons better not stand there with their fake ass tears when murrays is found not guilty cause it will be there fault. no wonder mj kept away from them
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

thanks
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

All this very confusing to me, but I am also a bit surprised to see so many of us here making definitive statements when the truth is we know little for sure, if any. We were not there. All we have are the comments of different people here and there in time and sure, no question those comments can be quite confusing and do contradict each other.

I just hope this will give justice a chance.

Katherine AND the kids certainly have much more information we can even imagine. And yes, no question for a 13 years old kid being involved in legal stuff of this nature is a terrible thing to face... but let's not forget that is his father who was killed. If you knew something, if you saw something... wouldn't you want to help seeking for the truth?

Again, we don't know the facts. The kids might be being (ab)used or they might be willing to help... who can tell for sure? Just them.

So I rather wait and see and hope this will bring some justice and some truth, thought I am afraid the truth will never be known.

I think you are misunderstanding. NO one (And I say that categorically) here is against the lawsuit, or the truth coming out. Also, no one is saying they know more than Katherine or the children. What we are questioning mainly is timing and wording. If Katherine, as Ivy says has four years to file against AEG why would she do it now before the criminal trial against Murray? Even in the wording of the affidavit, she paints Murray as a victim to AEG. If she wins, Murray can then use this to create reasonable doubt against the idea that Murray and Murray alone is responsible for MJ's death. They can clearly point to the fact that another court found AEG as being culpable civilly so why is Murray on trial. They can point to the wording as Murray himself being a victim to AEG. And can point to the fact that Murray is not even named as a defendant in this case so is he really to blame.

If they lose, all information brought up as well as possible prosecution arguments are revealed to Murray's defense team as well as laying all surprises out in the open for Murray's defense team to exploit and use to their advantage.

Of course Katherine wants to hold all responsible for MJ's death that she could, but things have to be done logically for the best effect. Otherwise she is just shooting herself in the foot and magnifying the grief of MJ's children not absolving them of it.
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

So confused :unsure: I don't even know what or who I believe any more. Joe and Oxman are easy to write off. But Katherine and the kids are a different story. Agh!
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

Several people have warned that the truth is going to be shocking, and that we may not want to hear the truth.
This whole thing is so messed up I think we all need the truth, in order to make any sense of it.
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

the suing is not abt justice. it's all abt $$. i hate to put kids' name in this postion. i
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

- Murray also instructed to attend to rehearsals with Michael - which he reportedly did according to the documents.
...
- The lawsuit says that Michael showed negative effects from Murray's treatments on June 18,19,23 and 24.

Wow... so all the "This is it" footage treasured at Sony might actually BE interesting to investigate... I wonder if the lawyers will request to have a look at it.
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

All this very confusing to me, but I am also a bit surprised to see so many of us here making definitive statements when the truth is we know little for sure, if any. We were not there. All we have are the comments of different people here and there in time and sure, no question those comments can be quite confusing and do contradict each other.

I just hope this will give justice a chance.

Katherine AND the kids certainly have much more information we can even imagine. And yes, no question for a 13 years old kid being involved in legal stuff of this nature is a terrible thing to face... but let's not forget that is his father who was killed. If you knew something, if you saw something... wouldn't you want to help seeking for the truth?

Again, we don't know the facts. The kids might be being (ab)used or they might be willing to help... who can tell for sure? Just them.

So I rather wait and see and hope this will bring some justice and some truth, thought I am afraid the truth will never be known.


CO SIGN for 100%!
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

Now we can see that as there's written communication (we have seen an email between AEG and Murray about the equipments in one of Joe's lawsuits) and as Murray began to provide services there's at least a binding oral contract between the parties.
I remember reading about this on several sites (about the equipments). But I do not remember seeing these email(s) exchanged between them. :scratch: Where can I see?

I'm very curious to know the answer to the AEG (and Ortega too) on this action of Katie. :fear:


Just :thinking: >>> This action of Katie against AEG, something's on my mind, was Joe who convinced Katie to come with this action? Maybe or not.... :fear:



Oh God... confusion and mess in my mind! :doh:
 
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Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

no one else in the family twitted about it except for randy.i think he is the one behind this lawsuit.
seriously if murray goes free than we need to sue family because all this mess is helping him.why they want to bring 13 yr old who just lost very important person in his life to this mess.
so now when prince is listed as bystander ,can murrays team call him as witness or something?
i don't feel this about justice ................everything is going in direction of $$$$.
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

naming the kids in the lawsuit gets you more $ he maybe called in the crim trial although tbh i dont see a reason for it
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

sorry for double post
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

Thank you.



Yes @the bolded part. At least before the paperwork was drawn up in January 2009. Murray was already treating Michael prior to him being under contract with AEG.

There's a few problems with this suit, same as the Joe one, which is pretty much identical. But Team Jackson will find that out soon enough if they don't know already but have chosen to proceed anyway.

I read the suit and came here to ask the following...but I see someone else has already asked. Perhaps I my pdf didn't download the entire complaint or something?



@the bolded part. There's nothing in the suit that most of us haven't been hearing for a year. What I'm interested in NOW is the proof. Where's the paperwork submitted with the complaint? The exhibits? The agreement between Murray and AEG? The back and forth agreements with AEG and Murray? Where are the emails, correspondences, faxes, etc. that support the statements in the complaint? Would be nice to see them in their entirety to see if, in fact, what's stated is what the documents actually portray or if someone is giving their interpretation of said documents.

We went thru this with the AGE lawsuit and saw how that turned out. There's so much testimony mentioned in this complaint, yet no names attributed to witnesses or affidavits to support such (i.e. Karen Faye mentioning Michael being cold, etc...) Why isn't that statement attributed to her and an affidavit confirming such attached to the complaint? *confused* Same for all the other "facts"

Should someone acquire a link to the exhibits that accompanied (or should have accompanied) the complaint, please post. Should be interesting to see these items, once and for all. :)

Until I SEE these exhibits/affidavits, I've not much to add to the discussion except to say if the family can PROVE any of this (meaning undisputable evidence), by all means, get AEG's ass. Otherwise (I shall hold my tongue and not say what I'm thinking).

Peace ya'll.



ETA: Gotta agree with Memefan here that this lawsuit, same as Joe's, was drawn up poorly....seemingly by either an incompetent lawyer or one who's trying to cover up a lack of something, imo. Lawsuits submitted like this are generally this way because they are lacking substance. I'm NOT a lawyer but have been in the legal field for over a decade and can tell you every document the attorneys I've worked with ALWAYS had their "i"'s dotted and their "t"'s crossed. If they made a statement in a complaint, it was backed up by a name/affidavit in support. If they made a claim about a specific document, that document was attached as an exhibit. Everytime I see these kinds of shoddy complaints making broad statements from attorneys (mostly those on suits against MJ) they were generally in poor form...and we all know why...and how most of them turned out in recent years.
When those exhibits show up, perhaps I'll change my mind about the person who signed his name on the dotted line of this complaint.

I sooo agree with you. At first glance it seems that some Jacksons are being set up for failure AGAIN.

Nothing good will come of this I tell ya.

The press will have a field day and MJ3s will be hurt.:no:
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

But I still see a big SO WHAT in all this. Even if they signed a contract, AEG didn't administer an overdose of propofol. A supposedly competent doctor of MJ's choosing did. Even if AEG put pressure on Murray to ensure he do whatever necessary for MJ to be able to perform, the professional doctor is responsible for the course of treatment. Not the promoter. That's why MJ wanted Murray. He thought Murray knew what he was doing and would be able to effectively treat his problem, whatever it was. I don't see how AEG is responsible for the extent of Murray's treatment. If he didn't have the right equipment, he SHOULD NOT have administered the propofol. PERIOD.


I agree with you. No matter what Murray was the one who administered the drugs. He was a doctor and he should have known better.

I see all the other lawsuits as the means to uncover other responsible people (of course if those lawsuits are prepared in a competent way). But no way those lawsuits should diminish Murray's responsibility for what he did.
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

Murray was Michael's doctor they have records saying he treated Michael back in 2006 and there are pills found in Michael's house from Murray that are dated 12/22/08 so it was hell of a luck on there part to hire Murray who just so happened to be Michael's doctor. And you say you told Michael on June 18 to stop seeing Klein it was tough love well I guess it was not tough enough because he was at Klein's office two days before he died.

Wasn't Michael going to Klein for Botox treament? Which is normal for many artists to smooth out the wrinkles before a major engagement.
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

All this very confusing to me, but I am also a bit surprised to see so many of us here making definitive statements when the truth is we know little for sure, if any. We were not there. All we have are the comments of different people here and there in time and sure, no question those comments can be quite confusing and do contradict each other.

I just hope this will give justice a chance.

Katherine AND the kids certainly have much more information we can even imagine. And yes, no question for a 13 years old kid being involved in legal stuff of this nature is a terrible thing to face... but let's not forget that is his father who was killed. If you knew something, if you saw something... wouldn't you want to help seeking for the truth?

Again, we don't know the facts. The kids might be being (ab)used or they might be willing to help... who can tell for sure? Just them.

So I rather wait and see and hope this will bring some justice and some truth, thought I am afraid the truth will never be known.

I agree :agree:
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

I think you are misunderstanding. NO one (And I say that categorically) here is against the lawsuit, or the truth coming out.
I see some people saying this is being done just for money, not for justice for Michael.

Also, no one is saying they know more than Katherine or the children. What we are questioning mainly is timing and wording. If Katherine, as Ivy says has four years to file against AEG why would she do it now before the criminal trial against Murray? .
well... I think the question in bold letters is a valid concern we can't answer, just because Katherine knows what we don't. I choose to think the reason for her doing so now, this way, is just because she has solid proof to back all this. I do hope that is the case. I hope that with all my heart.
 
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