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Rabbi Shmuley was on "The Joy Behar Show" on January 17 and talked about Michael.
http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1101/18/joy.01.html
BEHAR: Rabbi Shmuley Boteach is a best-selling author, renowned family adviser and a father of nine. His new book, "Honoring the Child`s Spirit" is based on never-before heard conversations he had with Michael Jackson about parenting, childhood and what adults can learn from kids.
With me now to talk about it is himself, Rabbi Shmuley Boteach. Hi there Rabbi.
RABBI SHMULEY BOTEACH, AUTHOR, "HONORING THE CHILD`S SPIRIT": Hello. Thanks for having me.
BEHAR: Now, you recorded hours of intimate conversations with Michael Jackson over a two-year period. Ok.
Um1: Correct.
BEHAR: What`s the most important take away value that you got out of those conversations?
Um1: Well, he felt parents were neglecting their children because they didn`t understand how much they get from their children. Michael believed that he was a star and successful because he retained his child- like qualities. Adults lose their imagination, their creativity, they become rigid, set in their ways. But kids are very open and he felt he got that openness from being around his kids.
BEHAR: I see. So, the Never Land and the whole Peter Pan syndrome that he was into is being justified in this way.
Um1: Well, I mean, for him there was a formal confrontation. He felt that he had been robbed of a childhood. That it was an essential step of life.
BEHAR: That`s right.
Um1: And that you build your how on a rickety foundation when you don`t value your childhood.
BEHAR: That`s right. And his father was tough.
Um1: Very tough.
BEHAR: Very tough on him.
Now, are you cool --
Um1: He loves his father but he was afraid of his father.
BEHAR: Everyone`s afraid of Joe Jackson. Everybody`s scared of Joe.
Now, you called him a wonderful and rare parent to Prince, Paris and Blanket. First of all, Blanket is not the kid`s name, is it?
Um1: I never met Blanket. I said he was a great father to Prince and Paris. Michael was not a perfect parent.
BEHAR: But Blanket is not the boy`s name.
Um1: I don`t know. It`s Prince Michael II or something.
BEHAR: Yes.
Um1: Michael is not a perfect father. He made a lot of mistakes. I mean he veiled the children because he hated when people speculated as to their paternity. He also -- their mother wasn`t involved in their life. That`s a huge no-no. I mean you have two parents, you have to have both of them around.
But it terms of prioritizing his kids -- I mean he had every excuse to say I`m doing concerts, I`m flying around the world. He never left them. He always read to them.
He would often call me from Never Land and wake me up in the middle of the night to say, Prince asked me a very difficult question. He doesn`t want to just dismiss it with the answer, "I wouldn`t know the answer." I would have to look it up.
BEHAR: In the middle of the night? You have to wake up and start looking up answers.
Um1: Well, he kept -- Michael kept very, very late hours. Yes. But it just shows --
BEHAR: How did you have nine kids like this?
Um1: I have videos of that as well, but that`s for after 11:00 Joy.
BEHAR: Ok. But what was I going to say to you -- the thing about him is, were those kids his genetic kids? That`s what I want to ask.
Um1: You know, I don`t know. And I always felt that it was sort of - -
BEHAR: They don`t look like him really.
Um1: I always felt it was inappropriate to ask him because I always thought to myself, if I go to someone`s house for dinner and I sit there looking at a child saying, you know, he doesn`t like you, did you have an affair?
BEHAR: No, it`s a rude question but I`m asking you what you thought.
Um1: I really don`t know. I tried to limit my friendship to areas where he was prepared to reveal himself. Look, I never really found out what happened with the children`s mother, either. I used to tell Michael all the time, I`m a child of divorce, I`m close to both my parents. That`s the way your kids ought to be. And he would say you don`t understand. I saw it was an area he didn`t want to discuss.
BEHAR: Ok. Now, here`s a snippet of Michael talking to you about how important it is to show approval towards children. Watch.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
MICHAEL JACKSON, SINGER: I think a little showing of approval, that it is, you`re doing the right thing. To be kind, to be loving to somebody who`s giving, sitting there laughing. The children show it all the time, but they`re afraid like when somebody gives them something and they jump all over them when they come again.
Is it ok? Of course, it`s ok. They need our smile of approval in a lot of ways.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BEHAR: That`s true, what he said.
Um1: Yes. And he felt he didn`t get it.
BEHAR: He didn`t get it from his father.
Um1: You know, he says -- I asked him once. I said, do you think you made your father proud. He says, oh I hope I did. He once said to me, good show, and that`s all I ever got.
I think Michael`s father came from the school of if I say too much, you won`t be motivated, so I`ll say little.
BEHAR: Right.
Um1: And I think now, we`ve changed. I think we understand the importance of affirmation with our kids.
BEHAR: Ok, now this is interesting because it was recently reported that Michael insisted that a Las Vegas dentist put the kid out, six-year- old Blanket, to a dental procedure even though the dentist did not have a license to do anesthesia.
So what do you make of that? Is that good parenting.
Um1: Well, number one is, what I make of it is that Michael was surrounded by corrupt doctors who did this stuff all the time. I mean Conrad Murray, unless I hear something drastically different to what I know about prescription drug medication, the truckload that he gave to Michael. With all due respect, the man belongs in jail.
And he`s not the only one. All of these sycophants, all of these brownnosers who facilitated Michael`s self destruction, have yet to be held accountable. And if we don`t hold them accountable, God forbid, some of the others are following.
Miley Cyrus isn`t it a great place, I don`t think; Paris Hilton; Lindsay Lohan. We have to tell stars --
BEHAR: Those are just the famous ones.
Um1: Yes, yes. Well, there`s so many that aren`t but people want to be in that retinue.
Was it responsible parenting? Of course not. I am in no way saying that Michael didn`t make huge mistakes as a father. I am saying --
BEHAR: What about the molestation charges against him? People will be startled that he was -- in this book, you say what a good parent he was, and yet we hear that he was charged with molestation on a few kids.
Um1: Well, I`ve been so critical of Michael`s mistakes. You know what? I think I`m some --
BEHAR: Those are not mistakes. Those are crimes if it`s true.
Um1: Right. Right. What I`m saying is this.
What I`m saying is this, I`ve been so critical of his mistakes that when I say that I don`t believe certain things, I think I have a certain credibility on it.
I condemned Michael for confessing almost bragging that he shared a bed with someone else`s child. I believe it was platonic, non-sexual, Michael saw himself as a giant kid. But it`s still immoral. You cannot share a bed with a child that`s not your own.
Having said that, I don`t believe for a moment Michael was a pedophile.
BEHAR: Well, they paid the family off.
Um1: Well, in 2003, he was utterly exonerated. I knew that family. I was there in Never Land when the family arrived
BEHAR: He was totally exonerated or they paid the family off?
Um1: No, no. In 2003, he was completely exonerated. In 1993, from what I understand because I wasn`t there, Johnny Cochran was his lawyer, comes in late and says, you know, this is destroying your career, pay it off. Michael always said to me that was a mistake. He shouldn`t have done it. And he shouldn`t have done it.
And there`s a lot of -- the things --
BEHAR: Gone to bed with a kid.
Um1: No, he shouldn`t have confessed what people saw guilt by settling instead of going to trial. He should have gone to trial the same way he went to trial in 2003.
BEHAR: Where there`s smoke, there`s fire, rabbi. I`m sorry. A grown man gets into the bed with a kid who is not his kid. Come on.
Um1: But Joy, we do have to distinguish between smoke and fire. One is non-substantive, the other is. I`m telling you Michael, cannot share a bed -- could not share a bed with a child that wasn`t his own.
The reason why our friendship fragmented is that I would tell him that he can`t do certain things and he wasn`t used to hearing that. And if it meant -- you know what you see --
BEHAR: I got to go. I have to go. I`m sorry to cut you off. You`re coming back for the next segment.
Um1: I`m going nowhere.
BEHAR: So we`ll be back with some more of Rabbi Shmuley.
Um1: And the segment after that.
BEHAR: Stay there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1101/18/joy.01.html
BEHAR: Rabbi Shmuley Boteach is a best-selling author, renowned family adviser and a father of nine. His new book, "Honoring the Child`s Spirit" is based on never-before heard conversations he had with Michael Jackson about parenting, childhood and what adults can learn from kids.
With me now to talk about it is himself, Rabbi Shmuley Boteach. Hi there Rabbi.
RABBI SHMULEY BOTEACH, AUTHOR, "HONORING THE CHILD`S SPIRIT": Hello. Thanks for having me.
BEHAR: Now, you recorded hours of intimate conversations with Michael Jackson over a two-year period. Ok.
Um1: Correct.
BEHAR: What`s the most important take away value that you got out of those conversations?
Um1: Well, he felt parents were neglecting their children because they didn`t understand how much they get from their children. Michael believed that he was a star and successful because he retained his child- like qualities. Adults lose their imagination, their creativity, they become rigid, set in their ways. But kids are very open and he felt he got that openness from being around his kids.
BEHAR: I see. So, the Never Land and the whole Peter Pan syndrome that he was into is being justified in this way.
Um1: Well, I mean, for him there was a formal confrontation. He felt that he had been robbed of a childhood. That it was an essential step of life.
BEHAR: That`s right.
Um1: And that you build your how on a rickety foundation when you don`t value your childhood.
BEHAR: That`s right. And his father was tough.
Um1: Very tough.
BEHAR: Very tough on him.
Now, are you cool --
Um1: He loves his father but he was afraid of his father.
BEHAR: Everyone`s afraid of Joe Jackson. Everybody`s scared of Joe.
Now, you called him a wonderful and rare parent to Prince, Paris and Blanket. First of all, Blanket is not the kid`s name, is it?
Um1: I never met Blanket. I said he was a great father to Prince and Paris. Michael was not a perfect parent.
BEHAR: But Blanket is not the boy`s name.
Um1: I don`t know. It`s Prince Michael II or something.
BEHAR: Yes.
Um1: Michael is not a perfect father. He made a lot of mistakes. I mean he veiled the children because he hated when people speculated as to their paternity. He also -- their mother wasn`t involved in their life. That`s a huge no-no. I mean you have two parents, you have to have both of them around.
But it terms of prioritizing his kids -- I mean he had every excuse to say I`m doing concerts, I`m flying around the world. He never left them. He always read to them.
He would often call me from Never Land and wake me up in the middle of the night to say, Prince asked me a very difficult question. He doesn`t want to just dismiss it with the answer, "I wouldn`t know the answer." I would have to look it up.
BEHAR: In the middle of the night? You have to wake up and start looking up answers.
Um1: Well, he kept -- Michael kept very, very late hours. Yes. But it just shows --
BEHAR: How did you have nine kids like this?
Um1: I have videos of that as well, but that`s for after 11:00 Joy.
BEHAR: Ok. But what was I going to say to you -- the thing about him is, were those kids his genetic kids? That`s what I want to ask.
Um1: You know, I don`t know. And I always felt that it was sort of - -
BEHAR: They don`t look like him really.
Um1: I always felt it was inappropriate to ask him because I always thought to myself, if I go to someone`s house for dinner and I sit there looking at a child saying, you know, he doesn`t like you, did you have an affair?
BEHAR: No, it`s a rude question but I`m asking you what you thought.
Um1: I really don`t know. I tried to limit my friendship to areas where he was prepared to reveal himself. Look, I never really found out what happened with the children`s mother, either. I used to tell Michael all the time, I`m a child of divorce, I`m close to both my parents. That`s the way your kids ought to be. And he would say you don`t understand. I saw it was an area he didn`t want to discuss.
BEHAR: Ok. Now, here`s a snippet of Michael talking to you about how important it is to show approval towards children. Watch.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
MICHAEL JACKSON, SINGER: I think a little showing of approval, that it is, you`re doing the right thing. To be kind, to be loving to somebody who`s giving, sitting there laughing. The children show it all the time, but they`re afraid like when somebody gives them something and they jump all over them when they come again.
Is it ok? Of course, it`s ok. They need our smile of approval in a lot of ways.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BEHAR: That`s true, what he said.
Um1: Yes. And he felt he didn`t get it.
BEHAR: He didn`t get it from his father.
Um1: You know, he says -- I asked him once. I said, do you think you made your father proud. He says, oh I hope I did. He once said to me, good show, and that`s all I ever got.
I think Michael`s father came from the school of if I say too much, you won`t be motivated, so I`ll say little.
BEHAR: Right.
Um1: And I think now, we`ve changed. I think we understand the importance of affirmation with our kids.
BEHAR: Ok, now this is interesting because it was recently reported that Michael insisted that a Las Vegas dentist put the kid out, six-year- old Blanket, to a dental procedure even though the dentist did not have a license to do anesthesia.
So what do you make of that? Is that good parenting.
Um1: Well, number one is, what I make of it is that Michael was surrounded by corrupt doctors who did this stuff all the time. I mean Conrad Murray, unless I hear something drastically different to what I know about prescription drug medication, the truckload that he gave to Michael. With all due respect, the man belongs in jail.
And he`s not the only one. All of these sycophants, all of these brownnosers who facilitated Michael`s self destruction, have yet to be held accountable. And if we don`t hold them accountable, God forbid, some of the others are following.
Miley Cyrus isn`t it a great place, I don`t think; Paris Hilton; Lindsay Lohan. We have to tell stars --
BEHAR: Those are just the famous ones.
Um1: Yes, yes. Well, there`s so many that aren`t but people want to be in that retinue.
Was it responsible parenting? Of course not. I am in no way saying that Michael didn`t make huge mistakes as a father. I am saying --
BEHAR: What about the molestation charges against him? People will be startled that he was -- in this book, you say what a good parent he was, and yet we hear that he was charged with molestation on a few kids.
Um1: Well, I`ve been so critical of Michael`s mistakes. You know what? I think I`m some --
BEHAR: Those are not mistakes. Those are crimes if it`s true.
Um1: Right. Right. What I`m saying is this.
What I`m saying is this, I`ve been so critical of his mistakes that when I say that I don`t believe certain things, I think I have a certain credibility on it.
I condemned Michael for confessing almost bragging that he shared a bed with someone else`s child. I believe it was platonic, non-sexual, Michael saw himself as a giant kid. But it`s still immoral. You cannot share a bed with a child that`s not your own.
Having said that, I don`t believe for a moment Michael was a pedophile.
BEHAR: Well, they paid the family off.
Um1: Well, in 2003, he was utterly exonerated. I knew that family. I was there in Never Land when the family arrived
BEHAR: He was totally exonerated or they paid the family off?
Um1: No, no. In 2003, he was completely exonerated. In 1993, from what I understand because I wasn`t there, Johnny Cochran was his lawyer, comes in late and says, you know, this is destroying your career, pay it off. Michael always said to me that was a mistake. He shouldn`t have done it. And he shouldn`t have done it.
And there`s a lot of -- the things --
BEHAR: Gone to bed with a kid.
Um1: No, he shouldn`t have confessed what people saw guilt by settling instead of going to trial. He should have gone to trial the same way he went to trial in 2003.
BEHAR: Where there`s smoke, there`s fire, rabbi. I`m sorry. A grown man gets into the bed with a kid who is not his kid. Come on.
Um1: But Joy, we do have to distinguish between smoke and fire. One is non-substantive, the other is. I`m telling you Michael, cannot share a bed -- could not share a bed with a child that wasn`t his own.
The reason why our friendship fragmented is that I would tell him that he can`t do certain things and he wasn`t used to hearing that. And if it meant -- you know what you see --
BEHAR: I got to go. I have to go. I`m sorry to cut you off. You`re coming back for the next segment.
Um1: I`m going nowhere.
BEHAR: So we`ll be back with some more of Rabbi Shmuley.
Um1: And the segment after that.
BEHAR: Stay there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
