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MJJC Urgent Member Notice - Re Sharing Stolen Copyrighted Material - ALL Members must read

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I am still waiting for a reply from someone responsible for the IP banning of user regarding the issues below:

Gaz:

Would you mind responding to the following post - you have not responded to it by any means thus far!

Its not just black or white - piracy or MJJC - it goes deeper then that! People want to discuss the lack of information about the life penalty punishment suddenly being handed out etc - not the crimes itself!

Has Sony dictated that all users caught doing something illegally must be IP banned?

Wouldn´t a 6 or 12 month ban be enough? That would refrain the user from posting such material and allowing them to comeback into the community after serving their time. I can not see anyone that truly appreciates this forum posting something illegal after coming off a years suspension.

But I can see people making a mistake once and then be banned for life!

Were all the people who have been banned for life aware that the the punishment for their crime was a ban for life?

I could easily have come in here and posted something illegal and then gotten a permanent life ban without barely knowing what I had done wrong. If there is an IP ban punishment then all member should received PMs and emails containing warnings etc. And that should have been done BEFORE starting IP BAN people!

I am only trying to protect good members from getting banned because of lack of knowledge of the circumstances. This thread is like a drop in the ocean - I bet 80% all members have not seen it.
 
What i would like to know, and please don't ban me for saying this, as i have noticed and spoken to several x members who got banned simply for voicing an opinion on the rule changes, yet having never shared anything illegal themselves, is why have none of the other MJ forums, who all share the materiel u mention here, been contacted in this way by sony? Why have none of them been threatened with being shut down? And, above all, why are some illegal things more important than others? I mean, no one here truely owns anything we share. Any thing with MJ's name, image, voice or music in belongs to sony and the estate in some way. The broadcast quality concerts also belong to the tv companies that show them. And the amateur footage was illegally acquired in the first place and does qualify as bootlegging. It just seems so hypocritical to say that sharing illegal stuff is bad, except these things are ok.
 
moonstreet said:
Because to them WE ARE CRIMINALS. Piracy is a crime, so therefore those who particpate in Sharing Stolen Copyrighted Material are CRIMINALS. They dont care about us being fans, all they see us people STEALING THEIR PRODUCT. Its business, they dont have ANY emotional attachment. They are not fans. This is what happens in the world outside the fan bubble. Do something ILLEGAL, get caught, face the consequences. In this instance, SONY have said, stop the Sharing Stolen Copyrighted Material and we will leave you alone. Continue Sharing Stolen Copyrighted Material and we will shut you down.

SONY are not Michael, they dont care about the fan community. They dont have an emotional attachment to the fan community. If MJJC is shut down, dosnt bother them. Wake up people, before its too late.
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This! Great comments from moonstreet down the thread!

And indeed FACEPALM to those who don't get it.

Also i think staff should appreciate & back up users who are helping to explain what is THE RIGHT WAY & the right thing to do.
Not just call to be calm.

How can it be so difficult for some to understand?


Did not have the feeling to say something the last few weeks/month. After the release of MICHAEL i had a feeling of this board going downhill.
And not because of the MICHAEL-Album, but because of the reactions and the resulting bad mood. I felt that visiting this site pulls me down, so i even did not visit for some time.
Now, the last weeks, i'm in 'lurking-mode' as i was long before becoming a member.
And i have to say: The exitement is coming back! The tone is much better as it was weeks before. It's not perfect yet.

But GAZ & his Staff are doing A GREAT job. I have fun visiting & reading the site, AGAIN.
People/fans should be thankful for what they are trying to accomplish & already have accomplished.
I am thankful & proud to be a member here.

And fans should also try and understand what is on the line now.
 
moonstreet said:
Because to them WE ARE CRIMINALS. Piracy is a crime, so therefore those who particpate in Sharing Stolen Copyrighted Material are CRIMINALS. They dont care about us being fans, all they see us people STEALING THEIR PRODUCT. Its business, they dont have ANY emotional attachment. They are not fans. This is what happens in the world outside the fan bubble. Do something ILLEGAL, get caught, face the consequences. In this instance, SONY have said, stop the Sharing Stolen Copyrighted Material and we will leave you alone. Continue Sharing Stolen Copyrighted Material and we will shut you down.

SONY are not Michael, they dont care about the fan community. They dont have an emotional attachment to the fan community. If MJJC is shut down, dosnt bother them. Wake up people, before its too late.
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Technically you're right. And Gaz doesn't have any other choice than to make sure this forum is to stay, but... What Sony should realise is, that it's bad for business to act like this. The normal market isn't interested in a leaked demo. We, the fans are. Does the leak keep us from buying a album. No! There are researches that come to the conclusion that sharing actualy motivates people to buy stuff. Companies like Sony are trapped in their own world and are to ignorant to realise that they have to go with the flow to survive in stead of resisting against how internet changed their business. They should wake up, really!
 
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The people who question this new rule are not blinded with Sony hatred. We don't aim to break the law and cause monetary damage to Sony. We don't advocate piracy neither. When a new rule with such massive impact (life time ban or even IP ban) is being carried out, more details have to be given to the members who will be affected by the new rule. As of now, there are many gray areas and ambiguous terms like (for reason obvious (Gaz's own words)) are not obvious at all.

First, is sharing remixes of copyrighted materials allowed? Many of us shared and downloaded Birchey's exellent remixes of HMH and Hollywood Tonight (his remixes put Teddy Riley to shame), will we be banned?

Second, is sharing links via PM allowed? If not, how is it being detected? Are our private messages being monitoered now? THIS IS IMPORTANT. We need to know the degree of privacy we have here. I'd feel extremely violated if my PM's are being monitored without my knowledge.

Third, is this new rule being carried out retrospectively? I want definite answer on this question. Many of us have downloaded the excellent Blue Gangster, the great DYKWYCA and the awesome STTR. Will we be banned?

Finally, I do not appreciate the subtle jabs some of you are throwing to your fellow MJ fans. We question this new rule not because we don't have common sense, logic, knowledge of Sony, appreciation of Gaz and the staff' efforts, or respect of law. Like I said, we behave just like all other fans in the world. When we come across something new, we share them with our fellow fans, either publicly or privately. We are not criminals who seek to steal Sony's intellectual property and destroy Sony's profitability. We are the pillar of Michael's fanbase. We are the one who are the most willing to spend money on any Michael Jackson releases. To see Sony coming this hard on us is very unsettling.

To the people who said "Michael Jackson is now a product of Sony", you can accept what you want to accept. But, to me, Michael Jackson was a human being. Michael Jackson's spirit still LIVES. I'm a fan of Michael Jackson. I'm an admirer of Michael's artistic masterpieces. I'm not a fan of the distributor of his music.

Fans become more and more voiceless and helpless. The direction we are heading to deviates farther and farther from honoring Michael's legacy. How can we honor and love Michael if we see him only as a consumerable item?
 
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Ingelief said:
thank you so much for that answer, thank you finally someone who respect and with love answered.
i hope we get that answer because i really want to see some concerts and dvds :)
hug
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Ingelief, I don't think this includes the concerts. But I am not 100%. From my understanding this has to do with the files that were stolen directly from Sony that they are upset about. The things that have been in 2000 Watts up til now I believe are safe. Birchey (wonderfully up til now ) and now joined by Cartman have been keeping tabs on that area. It has a stance on the board not to post any material that has already been released. 2000 Watts was a place to go to see fan remixes, and rare unreleased stuff. As far as I know this is still able to be viewed.

Mr.Moonwalker said:
What i would like to know, and please don't ban me for saying this, as i have noticed and spoken to several x members who got banned simply for voicing an opinion on the rule changes, yet having never shared anything illegal themselves, is why have none of the other MJ forums, who all share the materiel u mention here, been contacted in this way by sony? Why have none of them been threatened with being shut down? And, above all, why are some illegal things more important than others? I mean, no one here truely owns anything we share. Any thing with MJ's name, image, voice or music in belongs to sony and the estate in some way. The broadcast quality concerts also belong to the tv companies that show them. And the amateur footage was illegally acquired in the first place and does qualify as bootlegging. It just seems so hypocritical to say that sharing illegal stuff is bad, except these things are ok.
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You have not seen several members banned just for voicing their opinion. So please just stop that. We are not banning people for respectfully putting across their point of view. And, no you won't be banned for voicing yours either. Your tone is great.
This is the biggest MJ site on the net. A lot of people look at it. As for other boards, I don't know who watches them if anyone. I also don't know if the particular files that set this off were posted there as it was posted here, so I cannot answer your question fully. As to what a tv company owns, I am not sure. But we can speak with regards to what is owned by Sony. It is their property in particular that we are having a problem with. And as I said, what particulerly is upsetting them is a set of files that were stolen from them. Not files from tv, not videos, a particular set of songs.
 
I can understand the points being made on both sides.
I get that piracy is illegal and therefor I can see why the board would get a warning about it.
But I also think that if it's true people were banned before this warning was posted here, that doesn't seem really fair.
People have been sharing stuff like that for a long time now so how would they know that all of a sudden they will get banned for life for it? That's a heavy punishment to say the least.
I know if that was me I woud be very upset so hopefully that will be explained by somebody?

Also are other fanboards targeted like this by them?
 
I am confused? Many other MJ forums have had snippets of 'Water' and 'Solider Boy' etc but only MJJC is getting grieve? That is what confuses me because, the estate does know of all MJ forums.
 
You have not seen several members banned just for voicing their opinion. So please just stop that. We are not banning people for respectfully putting across their point of view. And, no you won't be banned for voicing yours either. Your tone is great.
This is the biggest MJ site on the net. A lot of people look at it. As for other boards, I don't know who watches them if anyone. I also don't know if the particular files that set this off were posted there as it was posted here, so I cannot answer your question fully. As to what a tv company owns, I am not sure. But we can speak with regards to what is owned by Sony. It is their property in particular that we are having a problem with. And as I said, what particulerly is upsetting them is a set of files that were stolen from them. Not files from tv, not videos, a particular set of songs.
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Please don't call me a lyer, i have done nothing to deserve that. I would not have said i had spoken to these ppl if i hadn't. Maybe they are misreading why they were banned, i dunno. But at least one of me close friends from another forum (BudzMJJ) was banned from here and doesn't even have the tracks in question. and i have looked through his posts here and it seems he was banned just for not liking the new rules (when they first got changed, not this time)
I understand this is a huge forum and ppl tend to look to us for the latest news and other info, but to allow sony this much say in what we can and can't do is almost an insult to MJ. Clearly he never had a problem with us sharing (xscape not withstanding) otherwise he could have had not just here, but all the main forums shut down.
I also agree with LOVE IS MAGICAL's post. The rules and regulations are very unclear. I haven't actually shared anything here myself as i didn't join up until after this change. But if i had been a memeber and shared music that, up until recently, wasn;t against the rules, would is still be banned.
I am assuming the files we are speaking about are the stolen Cascio tracks "Water" and "Soldier Boy" and if thats the case, they are all over the net now. i heard em on youtube (though i shouldn't have bothered *sigh*) and even my none MJ friends have mentioned em.
Finally, i LOVE ur siggy =) Stewie ftw!
 
Love is magical, again thank you so much for your GREAT posts. Especially this:

love is magical said:
To the people who said "Michael Jackson is now a product of Sony", you can accept what you want to accept. But, to me, Michael Jackson was a human being. Michael Jackson's spirit still LIVES. I'm a fan of Michael Jackson. I'm an admirer of Michael's artistic masterpieces. I'm not a fan of the distributor of his music.
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I swear I could kiss you for that!
 
At the end of the day sony paid big bucks for all the unreleased songs and they prob realise after the mess that was michael that they paid to much so are now doing whatever it takes to protect what they own.they have a right to do that in a biz sense.of course everyone has issues with sony from back in the day so that adds to whats gone on and tension levels.

I dont know where the life ban idea/ request came from.but all i know is that the next 6 months are gonna be hell for us and id hate to think there are ppl who are gonna be banned from here in what is gonna be a tough time.and not gonna have somewhere to come.this place helps me get through the day.im sure it does for many. So i hope something can be sorted for them
 
dear ginvid ho bad is it that you a mod doesnt know exactly what is and isnt forbidden??? If you dont know how can other know? why are the people how are banned for life responsible because what i said you dont know as a mod how could they know??
 
love is magical said:
The people who question this new rule are not blinded with Sony hatred. We don't aim to break the law and cause monetary damage to Sony. We don't advocate piracy neither. When a new rule with such massive impact (life time ban or even IP ban) is being carried out, more details have to be given to the members who will be affected by the new rule. As of now, there are many gray areas and ambiguous terms like (for reason obvious (Gaz's own words)) are not obvious at all.

First, is sharing remixes of copyrighted materials allowed? Many of us shared and downloaded Birchey's exellent remixes of HMH and Hollywood Tonight (his remixes put Teddy Riley to shame), will we be banned?

Second, is sharing links via PM allowed? If not, how is it being detected? Are our private messages being monitoered now? THIS IS IMPORTANT. We need to know the degree of privacy we have here. I'd feel extremely violated if my PM's are being monitored without my knowledge.

Third, is this new rule being carried out retrospectively? I want definite answer on this question. Many of us have downloaded the excellent Blue Gangster, the great DYKWYCA and the awesome STTR. Will we be banned?

Finally, I do not appreciate the subtle jabs some of you are throwing to your fellow MJ fans. We question this new rule not because we don't have common sense, logic, knowledge of Sony, appreciation of Gaz and the staff' efforts, or respect of law. Like I said, we behave just like all other fans in the world. When we come across something new, we share them with our fellow fans, either publicly or privately. We are not criminals who seek to steal Sony's intellectual property and destroy Sony's profitability. We are the pillar of Michael's fanbase. We are the one who are the most willing to spend money on any Michael Jackson releases. To see Sony coming this hard on us is very unsettling.

To the people who said "Michael Jackson is now a product of Sony", you can accept what you want to accept. But, to me, Michael Jackson was a human being. Michael Jackson's spirit still LIVES. I'm a fan of Michael Jackson. I'm an admirer of Michael's artistic masterpieces. I'm not a fan of the distributor of his music.

Fans become more and more voiceless and helpless. The direction we are heading to deviates farther and farther from honoring Michael's legacy. How can we honor and love Michael if we see him only as a consumerable item?
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Totally agree with this and especially with the bold part.
 
love is magical said:
The people who question this new rule are not blinded with Sony hatred. We don't aim to break the law and cause monetary damage to Sony. We don't advocate piracy neither. When a new rule with such massive impact (life time ban or even IP ban) is being carried out, more details have to be given to the members who will be affected by the new rule. As of now, there are many gray areas and ambiguous terms like (for reason obvious (Gaz's own words)) are not obvious at all.

First, is sharing remixes of copyrighted materials allowed? Many of us shared and downloaded Birchey's exellent remixes of HMH and Hollywood Tonight (his remixes put Teddy Riley to shame), will we be banned?

Second, is sharing links via PM allowed? If not, how is it being detected? Are our private messages being monitoered now? THIS IS IMPORTANT. We need to know the degree of privacy we have here. I'd feel extremely violated if my PM's are being monitored without my knowledge.

Third, is this new rule being carried out retrospectively? I want definite answer on this question. Many of us have downloaded the excellent Blue Gangster, the great DYKWYCA and the awesome STTR. Will we be banned?

Finally, I do not appreciate the subtle jabs some of you are throwing to your fellow MJ fans. We question this new rule not because we don't have common sense, logic, knowledge of Sony, appreciation of Gaz and the staff' efforts, or respect of law. Like I said, we behave just like all other fans in the world. When we come across something new, we share them with our fellow fans, either publicly or privately. We are not criminals who seek to steal Sony's intellectual property and destroy Sony's profitability. We are the pillar of Michael's fanbase. We are the one who are the most willing to spend money on any Michael Jackson releases. To see Sony coming this hard on us is very unsettling.
To the people who said "Michael Jackson is now a product of Sony", you can accept what you want to accept. But, to me, Michael Jackson was a human being. Michael Jackson's spirit still LIVES. I'm a fan of Michael Jackson. I'm an admirer of Michael's artistic masterpieces. I'm not a fan of the distributor of his music.

Fans become more and more voiceless and helpless. The direction we are heading to deviates farther and farther from honoring Michael's legacy. How can we honor and love Michael if we see him only as a consumerable item?
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Exactly...........

This is why I feel like Sony is trying to destroy Michael's fan community............

......deleting all offending threads and warning emails is all the action that was necessary...........

......And we don't even know which demos actually belong to Sony..........because most don't.........most belong to the estate or other producers (especially those made after 2002)............

......I don't support illegal downloads.........and let's face it, 99% of MJJC members have already brought all of Michael's albums released by Epic records.........that's why I get angry at Sony's actions.......


......I don't think it's any of MJJC's fault............but we must fight Sony!!!!!
 
Ingelief said:
dear ginvid ho bad is it that you a mod doesnt know exactly what is and isnt forbidden??? If you dont know how can other know? why are the people how are banned for life responsible because what i said you dont know as a mod how could they know??
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Exactly!

Ginvid, I'm not pointing finger at you or other moderators. But, this shows how unclear this new rule really is. You don't know 100% on what contents are allowed and what constitutes a rule violation. You can only give us your best guess. Isn't it true that the moderators haven't been briefed in detail on how the new rule is being enforced?

Meanwhile, before all the details are ironed out, discussed and communicated to members. The "life ban" is executed.

This issue is not as clean-cut as some of you put it. MJ fans are generous. I'm extremely grateful for the materials (music, videos, pictures, books) shared unconditionally with me by all the MJ fans throughout the years. It's not our nature to keep things to ourselves. If we share materials via PM, will we get into trouble? PLEASE ANSWER. I really need to know the degree of surveillance by the administrators here.
 
I agree with PM's. It should be private. Not even the team in my opinion should be going through people's personal email's because people may have personal and I mean personal stuff on there. The only way the team will know about emails, if someone has sent staff parts of an email.


About Michael..

To Sony, Michael is just a franchise.

But to us, he will always be a human.
 
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love is magical said:
The people who question this new rule are not blinded with Sony hatred. We don't aim to break the law and cause monetary damage to Sony. We don't advocate piracy neither. When a new rule with such massive impact (life time ban or even IP ban) is being carried out, more details have to be given to the members who will be affected by the new rule. As of now, there are many gray areas and ambiguous terms like (for reason obvious (Gaz's own words)) are not obvious at all.

First, is sharing remixes of copyrighted materials allowed? Many of us shared and downloaded Birchey's exellent remixes of HMH and Hollywood Tonight (his remixes put Teddy Riley to shame), will we be banned?

Second, is sharing links via PM allowed? If not, how is it being detected? Are our private messages being monitoered now? THIS IS IMPORTANT. We need to know the degree of privacy we have here. I'd feel extremely violated if my PM's are being monitored without my knowledge.

Third, is this new rule being carried out retrospectively? I want definite answer on this question. Many of us have downloaded the excellent Blue Gangster, the great DYKWYCA and the awesome STTR. Will we be banned?

Finally, I do not appreciate the subtle jabs some of you are throwing to your fellow MJ fans. We question this new rule not because we don't have common sense, logic, knowledge of Sony, appreciation of Gaz and the staff' efforts, or respect of law. Like I said, we behave just like all other fans in the world. When we come across something new, we share them with our fellow fans, either publicly or privately. We are not criminals who seek to steal Sony's intellectual property and destroy Sony's profitability. We are the pillar of Michael's fanbase. We are the one who are the most willing to spend money on any Michael Jackson releases. To see Sony coming this hard on us is very unsettling.

To the people who said "Michael Jackson is now a product of Sony", you can accept what you want to accept. But, to me, Michael Jackson was a human being. Michael Jackson's spirit still LIVES. I'm a fan of Michael Jackson. I'm an admirer of Michael's artistic masterpieces. I'm not a fan of the distributor of his music.

Fans become more and more voiceless and helpless. The direction we are heading to deviates farther and farther from honoring Michael's legacy. How can we honor and love Michael if we see him only as a consumerable item?
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My thoughts exactly.
 
I think Gaz is doing a great job to save this community. I would do the same if I would be in his place...
 
Something needs to be answered. As mentioned above...

Is anyone able to read the PMs we send except the people we send them too?
 
love is magical said:
The people who question this new rule are not blinded with Sony hatred. We don't aim to break the law and cause monetary damage to Sony. We don't advocate piracy neither. When a new rule with such massive impact (life time ban or even IP ban) is being carried out, more details have to be given to the members who will be affected by the new rule. As of now, there are many gray areas and ambiguous terms like (for reason obvious (Gaz's own words)) are not obvious at all.

First, is sharing remixes of copyrighted materials allowed? Many of us shared and downloaded Birchey's exellent remixes of HMH and Hollywood Tonight (his remixes put Teddy Riley to shame), will we be banned?

Second, is sharing links via PM allowed? If not, how is it being detected? Are our private messages being monitoered now? THIS IS IMPORTANT. We need to know the degree of privacy we have here. I'd feel extremely violated if my PM's are being monitored without my knowledge.

Third, is this new rule being carried out retrospectively? I want definite answer on this question. Many of us have downloaded the excellent Blue Gangster, the great DYKWYCA and the awesome STTR. Will we be banned?

Finally, I do not appreciate the subtle jabs some of you are throwing to your fellow MJ fans. We question this new rule not because we don't have common sense, logic, knowledge of Sony, appreciation of Gaz and the staff' efforts, or respect of law. Like I said, we behave just like all other fans in the world. When we come across something new, we share them with our fellow fans, either publicly or privately. We are not criminals who seek to steal Sony's intellectual property and destroy Sony's profitability. We are the pillar of Michael's fanbase. We are the one who are the most willing to spend money on any Michael Jackson releases. To see Sony coming this hard on us is very unsettling.

To the people who said "Michael Jackson is now a product of Sony", you can accept what you want to accept. But, to me, Michael Jackson was a human being. Michael Jackson's spirit still LIVES. I'm a fan of Michael Jackson. I'm an admirer of Michael's artistic masterpieces. I'm not a fan of the distributor of his music.

Fans become more and more voiceless and helpless. The direction we are heading to deviates farther and farther from honoring Michael's legacy. How can we honor and love Michael if we see him only as a consumerable item?
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Exactly @ everything you said.. Thank you. ...
 
Ps: We are going to need much more than the half answers received so far, which are far from satisfying, on a rational level as well, not just emotional. The life ban sentence (cuz that's what it is) is way too strong and radical and insane. Don't know how much clearer anyone can get on this. I'd like to know, also, just how monitored and controlled this forum is now being by Sony?. To the point where we're gonna lose most of our freedom on here? Pers, haven't talked to anyone privately about this Sony mess, if I have something to say, I say it upfront for all to see. But we're entitled to an earnest, complete feedback about this, Lesky's questions, Love Is Magical's important q's deserve that as well, for they're more than pertinent q's. We need to know where we stand from this point on and just how controlled we are being by this freakish corporation.

Like Elusive said, I too fear who is going to be next to get banned -- maybe some are being on holiday, some very very busy with work to do and not being clued in to that yet (and of course they're not clued in on this), and wake up being banned overnight like it happened.. again: Out Of Nowhere. Because you don't ban anyone without a concise, long-lasting warning, I only just saw this message the other day, and while I don't share anything media, and don't even ask anymore about anything media, others did, and from the goodness of their heart -- they meant nothing wrong, and this is a 'practice' that's being done everywhere. People shouldn't leak stuff in the first place and make it available online, then jump on the eager folks who simply wanna hear something new and share it .. So, as I said, I fear who'se gonna be next, and how those people aren't gonna be able to come back and find their comfort from here. ..That's the worst thing that could happen.

There's no better MJ forum than this one, none, and I'm not saying that to kiss-up, but cuz it's the truth. And to think of how lovely people on here were banned indefinitely - yeah, apparently for life, because nobody's saying anything else and clearly on this - and how they must be hurting now, it makes one sick. Things aren't this black and white, and Sony know that. They're just pouty cuz their credibility is going down the tubes more and more apparently, and decided to get back at Jackson's fans as a result.

We need some real feedback on here. I pray this forum will never be offline or taken down or anything. But I hope for some justice as well. I don't know how much I'm gonna repeat this: but life bans given Without Real Further Notice -- and considering those who may have been offline for a while and, of course, there are -- is not justice, but something atrocious. It should be illegal to be this cruel and unfair, that's what should be. There are plain threats being implemented, not just warnings.

The Estate also better come up with an explanation. A real credible one for a change, not that I'm gonna get my hopes up about that, tho. ....

*sigh*
 
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I absolutely understand that piracy is a serious issue and Gaz has to make sure that the rules are seriously followed. Gaz writes: it has come to my attention ...HOW? Did Gaz have any warning from Sony? Did he get a phone call? A letter? When? Yesterday? Two days ago?? When? Was Gaz threatened with closure of the board? Was he advised to do something or else? I, for one, would like to know how Sony approached this issue..


But to just come out and instantly ban someone for LIFE?... we're talking music piracy not first degree murder. The instant banning for life is so draconian. Like executing someone for reading a stolen book or looking at a stolen painting.

I think we have the right to know who mandated this rule. Is it Sony? Is it Gaz? This is important to determine how much Sony is capable of controlling the board. ( And I just bet Asedora is laughing her head off now) And how much leeway the owner of the board has over his own board.

Is Gaz doing this to show Sony he is serious about protecting them? Or rather their material?

And just what material are we talking about anyway? And how is sharing defined? How would I, for example, know if something I watch or download is stolen? Would I then be banned for watching or downloading?

I believe this could have been mitigated if: there had been a warning period on the banning, say 24 hours even; if the letter Gaz posted had been linked to show up when MJJC is first accessed; if there was requirement to acknowledge reading such a letter, that way no one can say they were blindsided; and if clear guidelines were forthcoming as to what can and cannot be done.

And I too would like to know how sacrosanct our PMs are. This is apart from the topic of this thread. This needs an answer NOW! It should not be difficult to answer.
 
Mr.Moonwalker said:
Please don't call me a lyer, i have done nothing to deserve that. I would not have said i had spoken to these ppl if i hadn't. Maybe they are misreading why they were banned, i dunno. But at least one of me close friends from another forum (BudzMJJ) was banned from here and doesn't even have the tracks in question. and i have looked through his posts here and it seems he was banned just for not liking the new rules (when they first got changed, not this time)
I understand this is a huge forum and ppl tend to look to us for the latest news and other info, but to allow sony this much say in what we can and can't do is almost an insult to MJ. Clearly he never had a problem with us sharing (xscape not withstanding) otherwise he could have had not just here, but all the main forums shut down.
I also agree with LOVE IS MAGICAL's post. The rules and regulations are very unclear. I haven't actually shared anything here myself as i didn't join up until after this change. But if i had been a memeber and shared music that, up until recently, wasn;t against the rules, would is still be banned.
I am assuming the files we are speaking about are the stolen Cascio tracks "Water" and "Soldier Boy" and if thats the case, they are all over the net now. i heard em on youtube (though i shouldn't have bothered *sigh*) and even my none MJ friends have mentioned em.
Finally, i LOVE ur siggy =) Stewie ftw!
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So if was banned for an issue unrelated to this, then why even bring it up as regards him having tracks or not. It is a nonissue. Also, as regards to people being banned for not liking some administrative rule, people are not banned for that unless they become just disrespectful in how they voice their opinions. There are so many that disagree for one reason or another, we would not have anyone left if that was the criteria. And, one friend deos not equal several. BTW, thanks luv. I found it and fell in love with it as well. I had to have it for my siggy after that. :D

Ingelief said:
dear ginvid ho bad is it that you a mod doesnt know exactly what is and isnt forbidden??? If you dont know how can other know? why are the people how are banned for life responsible because what i said you dont know as a mod how could they know??
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love is magical said:
Exactly!

Ginvid, I'm not pointing finger at you or other moderators. But, this shows how unclear this new rule really is. You don't know 100% on what contents are allowed and what constitutes a rule violation. You can only give us your best guess. Isn't it true that the moderators haven't been briefed in detail on how the new rule is being enforced?

Meanwhile, before all the details are ironed out, discussed and communicated to members. The "life ban" is executed.

This issue is not as clean-cut as some of you put it. MJ fans are generous. I'm extremely grateful for the materials (music, videos, pictures, books) shared unconditionally with me by all the MJ fans throughout the years. It's not our nature to keep things to ourselves. If we share materials via PM, will we get into trouble? PLEASE ANSWER. I really need to know the degree of surveillance by the administrators here.
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As far as I am aware of, this has to do directly with copyrighted material that was stolen from Sony. This does not have anything to do with the materials that have been in 2000 watts up until now. That is what striked this action, the stolen materials. The kinds of things in 2000 watts as of now are the kinds of things that are safe. I would say if you find material where the source is questioned or you don't know where it came from, do not post it.

As for PMs, I really, really have no idea. What will happen going forward will have to be a question for Gaz. I know that is not the answer you are looking for, but I really just don't know. I can't imagine that Gaz would go through reading people's PM's. But the rules that were placed on the board said that it is possible for this to be done. i would just say be very careful of what you do. I'm sorry love si magical, I wish I could give you something more concrete.
 
Its not about control its about the law, a criminal offence.

MJJC is controlled by no one other than me and my team, I can put my whole family on that fact.

However when someone is using this platform to steal and distribute stolen copyrighted material we have no choice but to abide by a legally binding request.

At this point and in answer to your question this ruling refers to the songs that were stolen from the servers of the Sony music Corp.

Everything else is as it was.

In answer to the pm issue, I and only I as administrator have access to every area of our forums, this has been the case since we started ten years ago and has been widely known by the community, do I go in there and read all what your saying, NO I respect your right of privacy, therefore as and when I need to I put in a search specifically to what I'm looking for and I only ever do this if it is deemed that important that MJJC could be compromised, in all honest I am not interested in what you all say to each other I have far to much to do to sit there and scour thousands of posts which most are just chit chat.

I hope that answers your questions.
 
I understand the reasons for strict rules, we don't want MJJC shut down. What I don't agree with are the extreme punishments executed without proper warning beforehand. Some great people have been banned from the board.. and I think we all know who they are. Such a shame.
 
Gaz,

Could you please read my complete post? Is dowloading remixes allowed? Is this ban being carried out retrospectively?

Just for my own information, how can conversation conducted in private be able to compromise MJJC?
 
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