MJJC Urgent Member Notice - Re Sharing Stolen Copyrighted Material - ALL Members must read

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Its the downloading and sharing thats an issue, and I think that is pretty obvious as we can tell people not to talk about it.

Fan made remixes are fine, which lets be honest there is a million of them on youtube with nothing done.

No I am referring to the songs that were stolen from Sony's server.

And yes, we are conducting internal investigations where by if members are here solely to download and share stolen songs then they will be removed.

I have to do this to protect MJJC otherwise it will look like were handing and abetting a crime.
 
sorry gaz but no that doesnt answer most of the questions
Which songs are stolen?? I dont know that so how can i know which are wrong and which arent???
also ginvid you said that too but not include the songs titels.... if we dont know the titals how can we do something wrong???
Also can we pm each other with songs or is that too forbidden

im disapointed that you, gaz dont anwer the most importend questions, and leave it with that
and the banned people are not getting justice. banned for life is almost worse than the 4 years murray may! get

Im sad and dissapointed...
like alma love is magical all asked its never anwered...
and the hours go by and every minute there is the change of a good member being banned because its not clear what we CAN and CANT do
 
Ingelief, it is not about specific song titles. It is about the specific files that have been stolen from Sony.
 
At the end of the day sony has the power to shut mjjc down if they really wanted to.so what has to be done has to be done for the sake of board.hopefully a happy medium will be reached.but whether we like it or not legally sony have the power to go after ppl and boards that have file sharing issues.the board as a whole is far to important to lose.so in that legal sense gary had no choice
 
Its the downloading and sharing thats an issue, and I think that is pretty obvious as we can tell people not to talk about it.

What's clear to you might not be clear to others. You assume everyone knows Soldier Boy and Water are stolen. To be honest with you, even I, a keen follower of the Cascio fiasco, do not know the origin of the songs. What I know is that someone posted the download links elsewhere and one of the members posted the link here. I have no idea how the songs are obtained.


Fan made remixes are fine, which lets be honest there is a million of them on youtube with nothing done.

Now, you are using youtube as an example. If I go to youtube now, I can find clips after clips of Soldier Boy, Water, Stay and All I Need. Aren't Blue Gangster and DYKWYCA also widely available?

No I am referring to the songs that were stolen from Sony's server.

Again, how do we know which songs were stolen from Sony's server?

And yes, we are conducting internal investigations where by if members are here solely to download and share stolen songs then they will be removed.

I have to do this to protect MJJC otherwise it will look like were handing and abetting a crime.

Gary, I'm sorry but I really don't like the tone. Internal investigation? Crime? We are just fans here, not some major law breakers.
 
why is my post removed????????????
edit: com melfunction

I still dont know which songs files as you call it ginvid, are stolen?
so i still dont know what is illegal..
 
sorry gaz but no that doesnt answer most of the questions
Which songs are stolen?? I dont know that so how can i know which are wrong and which arent???
also ginvid you said that too but not include the songs titels.... if we dont know the titals how can we do something wrong???
Also can we pm each other with songs or is that too forbidden

im disapointed that you, gaz dont anwer the most importend questions, and leave it with that
and the banned people are not getting justice. banned for life is almost worse than the 4 years murray may! get

Im sad and dissapointed...
like alma love is magical all asked its never anwered...
and the hours go by and every minute there is the change of a good member being banned because its not clear what we CAN and CANT do

Hold on, Gaz is following a legal order. If he doesn't Sony take him to court so can people stop criticising us because you can't get your precious downloads. Times have changed. Michael protected us before-he can't now. Sadly this is the situation we face now. I wish to God we weren't doing this but we have to.
 
Most recent leaks were some of the Cascio tracks, right? So I guess they mean them with illegal shared material.
Gosh, I hope they don't want to officially release them and that's why they are so rigorous. It would be too much.... :(
 
Hold on, Gaz is following a legal order. If he doesn't Sony take him to court so can people stop criticising us because you can't get your precious downloads. Times have changed. Michael protected us before-he can't now. Sadly this is the situation we face now. I wish to God we weren't doing this but we have to.

Asking for clarification is not criticizing. From the bottome of my heart, I value this community more than "precious" downloads. As a matter of fact, the "precious downloads you referred to can be found on other fan forums. They are not exclusive here.

We asked questions because we are confused. If you read the previous few pages, some of us asked valid questions in a reasonable manner. The questions deserved to be answered straight-forwardly. I don't understand how you can see our questons as criticism.

We can't come here with fear that we and our close friends may be banned for life one day without knowing exactly why. I hope you understand our concerns.
 
my point too love is magical.. its not about precius downloads its an insult to say that sorry to say that.. we all love it here and i dont wanna leave in fear what i do know so thats why i want proper answers
 
Hold on, Gaz is following a legal order. If he doesn't Sony take him to court so can people stop criticising us because you can't get your precious downloads. Times have changed. Michael protected us before-he can't now. Sadly this is the situation we face now. I wish to God we weren't doing this but we have to.

We're just going around and around with this, aren't we. Since Gaz is following a legal order, it probably would have helped if from the beginning he had said so and shared with us what it said. Why only give out part of the information, why make us have to ask and ask to extract information. Bit by painful bit. Cause that's what it feels like. And then to be accused of criticizing is not fair.
Asking questions is the only way to hopefully get answers when the situation is not clear. Since the same questions are being asked, it should be apparent that they are not being answered.

However when someone is using this platform to steal and distribute stolen copyrighted material we have no choice but to abide by a legally binding request.

So does this mean that a member of mjjc stole from Sony?? One of us???


At this point and in answer to your question this ruling refers to the songs that were stolen from the servers of the Sony music Corp.

See, here it is songs not files stolen, so why can't we be told what the titles are?

I appreciate that this is not a pleasant thing to have to deal with and we all want what is best for the board members. We sure don't want mjjc shut down. But if we can't get complete answers from those who are supposed to know what is going on, that doesn't sent a reassuring message. There is real concern here.
 
We can't come here with fear that we and our close friends may be banned for life one day without knowing exactly why. I hope you understand our concerns.

Gaz is doing the right thing. Like he already said - ''DONT SHARE OR DOWNLOAD WHAT IS NOT YOURS!''
About the ban of the lifetime...- I think that people who downloaded had no idea it was something very offensive to community, so I think there should be 1 warning and I think they wouldn't do it ever again. It's just sad because, for example, - ''I downloaded one casio track. I was going to sleep. Next morning I go to MJJC, and....WTF?!'' That's what I'm talking about. 1 warning should be enough for downloaders. After warning there must be a ban.
But sharing is not forgivable in this situation. I think there must be a permanent ban because they knew what they were doing when they shared that stuff.
And I understand the copyright and stealing stuff. I just said that downloaders didn't mean anything bad and they were probably shocked when they saw they are banned...
 
The people who question this new rule are not blinded with Sony hatred. We don't aim to break the law and cause monetary damage to Sony. We don't advocate piracy neither. When a new rule with such massive impact (life time ban or even IP ban) is being carried out, more details have to be given to the members who will be affected by the new rule. As of now, there are many gray areas and ambiguous terms like (for reason obvious (Gaz's own words)) are not obvious at all.

First, is sharing remixes of copyrighted materials allowed? Many of us shared and downloaded Birchey's exellent remixes of HMH and Hollywood Tonight (his remixes put Teddy Riley to shame), will we be banned?

Second, is sharing links via PM allowed? If not, how is it being detected? Are our private messages being monitoered now? THIS IS IMPORTANT. We need to know the degree of privacy we have here. I'd feel extremely violated if my PM's are being monitored without my knowledge.

Third, is this new rule being carried out retrospectively? I want definite answer on this question. Many of us have downloaded the excellent Blue Gangster, the great DYKWYCA and the awesome STTR. Will we be banned?

Finally, I do not appreciate the subtle jabs some of you are throwing to your fellow MJ fans. We question this new rule not because we don't have common sense, logic, knowledge of Sony, appreciation of Gaz and the staff' efforts, or respect of law. Like I said, we behave just like all other fans in the world. When we come across something new, we share them with our fellow fans, either publicly or privately. We are not criminals who seek to steal Sony's intellectual property and destroy Sony's profitability. We are the pillar of Michael's fanbase. We are the one who are the most willing to spend money on any Michael Jackson releases. To see Sony coming this hard on us is very unsettling.

To the people who said "Michael Jackson is now a product of Sony", you can accept what you want to accept. But, to me, Michael Jackson was a human being. Michael Jackson's spirit still LIVES. I'm a fan of Michael Jackson. I'm an admirer of Michael's artistic masterpieces. I'm not a fan of the distributor of his music.

Fans become more and more voiceless and helpless. The direction we are heading to deviates farther and farther from honoring Michael's legacy. How can we honor and love Michael if we see him only as a consumerable item?

Whether you are fan of Sony or not is irrelevant.
Rules are rules! It need to follow, otherwise you get punished, that's all.
 
Whether you are fan of Sony or not is irrelevant.
Rules are rules! It need to follow, otherwise you get punished, that's all.

That's true, but I still think downloaders should have 1 warning, because some people didn't know it was wrong..
It's just like that - mentally ill person killed another person, but that ill person isn't in prison. He is in hospital for mental treatment. That's what I'm saying. Sharers are like killers. Downloaders - like mentally ill persons who didn't know they were doing wrong..

I hope you understand my point..
 
how can we follow rules if there not told?

They are told by Gaz.. -

''If I have to spell this out I will.

DONT SHARE OR DOWNLOAD WHAT IS NOT YOURS,

its a simple as that.

Or if you do, do not use MJJC to do so

Is that plain enough guys.''
 
Gaz is doing the right thing. Like he already said - ''DONT SHARE OR DOWNLOAD WHAT IS NOT YOURS!''
About the ban of the lifetime...- I think that people who downloaded had no idea it was something very offensive to community, so I think there should be 1 warning and I think they wouldn't do it ever again. It's just sad because, for example, - ''I downloaded one casio track. I was going to sleep. Next morning I go to MJJC, and....WTF?!'' That's what I'm talking about. 1 warning should be enough for downloaders. After warning there must be a ban.
But sharing is not forgivable in this situation. I think there must be a permanent ban because they knew what they were doing when they shared that stuff.
And I understand the copyright and stealing stuff. I just said that downloaders didn't mean anything bad and they were probably shocked when they saw they are banned...

Again, you just simplified the whole situation.

Quote "DON'T SHARE OR DOWNLOAD WHAT IS NOT YOURS" is not as obvious as it seems.

The Dangerous Tour (BBC uncut version) is not mine. I didn't pay for it. I donwloaded it.

The HIStory Tour in Munich is not mine. I didn't pay for it. I downloaded it.

I didn't pay for The Private Home Videos, The Oprah Interview, Hold My Hand (early version), Blue Gangster, etc..... Are links to download them removed? If I PM a link to download the Making of Ghosts, will I be banned?

Downloading and file sharing have been a part of this community for as far as I can remember. 2000 Watts section is like a MJ Treasure Island. It's not "offensive" or "unforgivable" in the past.

Last but not least, no one said Gaz is not doing the right thing. Could people stop thinking having questions is the same as criticizing and pressuring? All of us are trying to get on the same page in a civilized manner.
 
Just for clarification, and I am not being facitious here, I am just trying to get a clear understanding of the questions,

You guys would like to know what specific titles? Or what specifically would get you in trouble? Is that right? What else do you guys feel is not being answered? f you want to PM specific questions, we can work on answering those. But I have to tell you, as Gaz said, information about Sony would be clarified soon. So some of the questions will be a best answer. If you want to PM me your specific questions, or to a member of staff, we'll do our best to answer you specifically. Otherwise, we will just go round and round.

Thanks!
 
Quote "DON'T SHARE OR DOWNLOAD WHAT IS NOT YOURS" is not as obvious as it seems.

The Dangerous Tour (BBC uncut version) is not mine. I didn't pay for it. I donwloaded it.

The HIStory Tour in Munich is not mine. I didn't pay for it. I downloaded it.

I didn't pay for The Private Home Videos, The Oprah Interview, Hold My Hand (early version), Blue Gangster, etc..... Are links to download them removed? If I PM a link to download the Making of Ghosts, will I be banned?

Downloading and file sharing have been a part of this community for as far as I can remember. 2000 Watts section is like a MJ Treasure Island. It's not "offensive" or "unforgivable" in the past.

Gaz also told everyone that this only applies to the things that are stolen from Sony servers and I'm pretty sure that you know or at least can conclude that none of those examples are coming from Sony servers.
 
Again, you just simplified the whole situation.

Quote "DON'T SHARE OR DOWNLOAD WHAT IS NOT YOURS" is not as obvious as it seems.

The Dangerous Tour (BBC uncut version) is not mine. I didn't pay for it. I donwloaded it.

The HIStory Tour in Munich is not mine. I didn't pay for it. I downloaded it.

I didn't pay for The Private Home Videos, The Oprah Interview, Hold My Hand (early version), Blue Gangster, etc..... Are links to download them removed? If I PM a link to download the Making of Ghosts, will I be banned?

Downloading and file sharing have been a part of this community for as far as I can remember. 2000 Watts section is like a MJ Treasure Island. It's not "offensive" or "unforgivable" in the past.

Last but not least, no one said Gaz is not doing the right thing. Could people stop thinking having questions is the same as criticizing and pressuring? All of us are trying to get on the same page in a civilized manner.

Well, we are talking here about copyrighted material. We don't share here Bucharest 1992 DVD, right?
And I wonder what you would do if you would be Gaz's place? I think Gaz is doing the right thing.
 
Gaz also told everyone that this only applies to the things that are stolen from Sony servers and I'm pretty sure that you know or at least can conclude that none of those examples are coming from Sony servers.

Okay. Thanks. How do I know Blue Gangster is not directly from Sony's servers? I used Blue Gangster as an example as well.

Well, we are talking here about copyrighted material. We don't share here Bucharest 1992 DVD, right?
And I wonder what you would do if you would be Gaz's place? I think Gaz is doing the right thing.

I repeat. I didn't say Gary is not doing the right thing. I said that in my previous post. Please stop thinking I'm his enemy. I love this community as well.

Many of us here are asking for more clarity and transparency.

PS: Blue Gangster is copyrighted and is available.
 
i also believe its unclear to me what is been stolen from sony and i also dont see the point in repeating things but somehow some of us dont get our answers.
is like love is magical says blue gangsta stolen or etc
because dont share what isnt yours is kinda ridiculus because thats everything in the 2000 watt section
 
I don't think that we are given a list of items (Gaz can correct me) that's why your questions cannot be answered in detail. Simple Rule of thumb : if it's a song, if it's recently (or in the future) suddenly began making the rounds and if it has a slightest chance of being included in a future release - don't post it.
 
If you encounter any recent snippets making the rounds, eg Solider Boy snippet has recently been leaked, do not post it here.
 
Has Sony dictated that all users caught doing something illegally must be IP banned?

Wouldn´t a 6 or 12 month ban be enough? That would refrain the user from posting such material and allowing them to comeback into the community after serving their time. I can not see anyone that truly appreciates this forum posting something illegal after coming off a years suspension.

But I can see people making a mistake once and then be banned for life!

Were all the people who have been banned for life aware that the the punishment for their crime was a ban for life?

I could easily have come in here and posted something illegal and then gotten a permanent life ban without barely knowing what I had done wrong. If there is an IP ban punishment then all member should received PMs and emails containing warnings etc. And that should have been done BEFORE starting IP BAN people!

I am only trying to protect good members from getting banned because of lack of knowledge of the circumstances. This thread is like a drop in the ocean - I bet 80% all members have not seen it.

Why not send an alert to all members so that the next time they login or visit the site they have to read a warning message about this whole issue before doing anything else?

What actions are to be taken to prevent members from being IP banned because they do not know about this thread?
 
Lesky;3381534 said:
Has Sony dictated that all users caught doing something illegally must be IP banned?

Wouldn´t a 6 or 12 month ban be enough? That would refrain the user from posting such material and allowing them to comeback into the community after serving their time. I can not see anyone that truly appreciates this forum posting something illegal after coming off a years suspension.

But I can see people making a mistake once and then be banned for life!

Were all the people who have been banned for life aware that the the punishment for their crime was a ban for life?

I could easily have come in here and posted something illegal and then gotten a permanent life ban without barely knowing what I had done wrong. If there is an IP ban punishment then all member should received PMs and emails containing warnings etc. And that should have been done BEFORE starting IP BAN people!

I am only trying to protect good members from getting banned because of lack of knowledge of the circumstances. This thread is like a drop in the ocean - I bet 80% all members have not seen it.

Why not send an alert to all members so that the next time they login or visit the site they have to read a warning message about this whole issue before doing anything else?

What actions are to be taken to prevent members from being IP banned because they do not know about this thread?


Right @ everything.

Also: the people that have been banned for life will be able to restore their memberships on here at some point?

We haven't received but short, quick answers so far, that don't precisely address the issue of people getting banned permanently overnight for their actions and sentenced to life ban from MJJC. And how and what exactly Sony are controlling. And if the life bans were set by them again. Living in fear is not going to be happening on here. Sure, everyone must realize they can no longer share anything from two-faced Sony, it's clear as day now - not for many, though, who, as said before, haven't been able to be made aware of this yet.

My suggestion would be that a standard message be forwarded to the e-mail address of all members here, so that everybody knows what will expect them from Sony and how a life-ban sentence is gonna get them good. That has not been done and that is very unjust and non-professional.

We are being asked to understand this. How about some more empathy for those that got wiped off from here in a heartbeat, with no chance of returning. There has to be a way they can return at some point, for maybe more people are gonna leave this place because of such gross injustice caused by Sony and not properly communicated to the ignorant masses. The forum would get switched off by itself in that case.

This whole 'What would you do if Sony threatened you..?' For that's loud and clear that that's the case..that's way off. And not just that, but again, especially how people weren't being told and explained clearly about this issue, that the bans were made Beforehand. Again, how is that justice? It isn't. Why hasn't this been addressed, like those people mean nothing, when in fact the members are keeping a forum alive most of all, without them, it would be nothing. Some wonderful people were banned, once again. And for one, I could care less about leaks and listening to them and all that, didn't care much about them even before, for it wasn't what Michael wanted to put out anyway. Hope they won't get leaked from now on for the best of everybody, and mostly hope that Sony will start to release all the songs they may plan to release with Michael in them for a change. And hope that their control won't be extended further -- but I don't feel that's the case, and pray that I am wrong. ...

Also, why can't the Sony matters and questions be addressed now, or at least these days..? Whose idea was it regarding the permanent bans? Sony's or the administrator of this forum? These are valid questions, and people here deserve this much: an honest, less vague answer. ..
 
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