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Murray Trial- Day 15 -October 21st

Dr Shafer says u cant get to the level MJ had with only 2 mg of Lorazapam as Murray says
 
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I want Dr. Steinberg back! He should have been the last witness for the prosecution........instead of this guy. IMO
 
simulation re loraz. you did one only? correct. shaffer says i have no doses cause theres no medical records. shaffer is showing the graph he made on it (the 40mg). u knew the concentration? yes. u read the statements from the security staff? yes i did. shaffer starts the first shot at midnight. mj wasnt home at midnight. shaffer says the goal was to show multiply injections could have been given. to show a set plan. times arent relevent.. chernoff then says second injection at 12.30 mj was still at rehearsal. third shot at 1am mj almost home. chernoff says u created an original report not the one that he testifyed to yesterday. that was based on non repsonive to pain/responsive. loraz isnt an anelgesic (sp) its a sedative.so if we are at the level were they arent responsive to pain then they are asleep? yes .u agree that based on your simulation that mj would be asleep from 2.30-11.30? no says shaffer. because mj had been given benzos for 80 days makes it impossible to know what mjs reaction would be. did murray say he gave benzos for 80 days? accusing shaffer of making an assumption that murray gave mj benzos for 80 day. shaffer says i have murrays statement and no medical records. whats the significane of 40mg to shaffer? because of the vial that was found. hes not assuming murray used it all but showing you couldnt get to those limits based of what murray claimed he gave ie 4 mg. shaffer says it was possible murray gave the entire 40mg thats what he said in his statement and he stands by it.chernoff says by his questions that shaffer was making a heck of alot of assumptions when creating his theories

chernoff actually did pretty well on the above hate to say it .he gets a point for that

ask why shaffer didnt mention the non responsive to pain graph yesterday. shaffer says he was trying to make it as simple as poss for the jury to understand and not anything dodgy like chernoff is implying (shaffers word)

loraz oral now saying what happens. takes 22 mins to absor half in the stomach. then goes to the liver. and first pass which is 92% then into the blood stream and goes into multiple parts of the body and into the brain. the matabolite then goes back into the bile and stomach.
 
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Dr Shafer and Chernoff arguing back and forth.. "it does, it doesnt, it doest"
 
Sue said:
I haven't been watching (sheer cowardice) but am I to understand that Dr Shafer is agreeing with everything Chernoff is putting to him?
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No he's not, Chernoff is just being an ass.
 
Why do I keep picturing Chernoff sitting in some lonely bar drinking whiskey with his tie undone and defeated? That's just the image of him I keep getting hehe.
 
I can't imagine Chernoff's attitude playing that well to the jury. He's coming across as an ass.
 
wonder why shafer was doing graphs for dr white...why can't he do it himself
 
Well, one thing is clear is that Conrad Murray certainly was not well versed enough to be giving this kind of treatment. The fact that it is all so complicated further proves only a specialist should have been doing it.
 
the simulation for loraz shaffer did based on what murray said he did ie 2am and 5 am injections yesterday he said mj couldnt have taken any tablets upto 4 hrs b4.? yes says shaffer.

if mj took tablets it would have to happened b4 8am.

did the same on midaz. and the figures matched what murray gave. (so chernoffs implying he didnt lie about midaz he didnt lie about loraz)

onto diprivan. 25 mg of dip simulation. created a graph as shown yesterday. the graph was based on 25 being given straight in. not over 3-5 mins as murray said. going on about the insets in the diprivan bottles telling u how to give diprivan.what time to inject over. shaffer talking about the rates of infusion. and how long it should be given so u dont overshoot. (bit confusing) the danger of a rapid infusion of a blous is apnea? yes what was mjs brain concentration of diprivan? as shaffer i think says that is more important than the blood concentration he doesnt know looks at corners report

sidebar
 
gerryevans said:
Well, one thing is clear is that Conrad Murray certainly was not well versed enough to be giving this kind of treatment. The fact that it is all so complicated further proves only a specialist should have been doing it.
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Thats is true. Im not sure what Chernoffs purpose is besides discredit and btw, he isnt doing a good job on that either.
 
mccartneyAP Anthony McCartney
Counsel are in a sidebar, possibly because we're coming up on end of the court day.
 
Noergaard said:
Thats is true. Im not sure what Chernoffs purpose is besides discredit and btw, he isnt doing a good job on that either.
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The only person he is discrediting is himself. Especially how he actively mocks Shefer's work, his field, and insults his intelligence.
 
It's going to be really interesting to hear Dr Whites testimony and how he justifies it.

court is adjourned for today..back on monday.
 
the concentration in the brain. i dont find a measurement for brain concentration in the coroners report.

did chernoff say thats it as in no further questions? back to redirect? that wasnt very clear

court ajourned
 
Ramona122003 said:
The only person he is discrediting is himself. Especially how he actively mocks Shefer's work, his field, and insults his intelligence.
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He has done that with all the witnesses during this trial. Shafer did good imo, but was a bit nervous.
 
SimplyMagic said:
I agree, but I think he wants to make the witness look less credible to the jury............hopefully, he won't succeed.
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From what I've seen, I can't see him scoring any points. Instead of arguing the facts, he instead chose to character assassinate Shefer. Like he didn't really questioned the Lopz chart, but instead went on about how he thinks that Shefer has a grudge against Murray. Never mind he didn't ofter any alt to why the Lopz level were so high and why Murray gave the antidote to such a drug in such a critical moment.
 
from my understanding nothing happened today - did chernoff make any point? I can't understand him
 
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