Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor"

[roomdownstairs]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

Maybe some of the medical experts here can address this? It was an OUTRAGE.

I watched the whole thing and took notes, and I'm glad I did -- even though it was very painful. I'll give a few impressions here, and then let it "marinate" overnight.

There were things gained by watching that a transcript simply cannot convey. Specifically, Murray's expression of emotion. His "religious and prayerful" moments seemed entirely fake, and staged. What was NOT staged, were his flares of anger. He has a HUGE temper! I found it chilling, actually. I am now thinking that it's very possible that he pushed the propofol and killed Michael in a fit of anger. He was angry at his attorneys (f-bombs), and called them "stupid." I also saw delusions of grandeur there? Where he, Murray, knew best how to try the case? He was angry at Alvarez, too (I don't think Alvarez did anything wrong). His anger would flare so QUICKLY!

I'll go over my notes (detailed), but one thing I want to mention for now. . . . and I don't know if anyone else who watched, caught it? When talking about Alvarez -- and BLAMING him -- Murray said, "I was trying to control him on the phone." (as if Alvarez did something wrong when speaking to 911? - which he did not.) It was the word "control" that struck me. I think this is a man who tries to control other people, with his anger! What did he really DO to Michael? Murray is incapable of telling the truth, so do we even know? Really?

Murray also was pissed off at AEG. In fact, the only person he felt was innocent -- was himself.

He is clinically mentally ill? This man is truly dangerous, and Pastor was quite right to deny him bail. Those moments of histrionic religiosity sure made him seem like a nut-case? He shows no remorse at all (and never has). He even blamed Michael for "hurting HIM," by dying! I think these things were pretty obvious, and the one who was trashed the most in the docu -- was MURRAY. Just by being himself.

Strangely, Chernoff came off the best, I thought. He actually defended Michael (somewhat), when Flanny's wife was trashing him. I can certainly see why he moved out! (and was that a gin-and tonic Flanny was drinking? Looked like it, and he seemed to be slurring his words.)

So yeah, as rough as it was to watch this, reading a transcript simply can't convey the whole "truth" about Murray -- that he is a homicidal MONSTER, completely lacking a conscience. His eyes were either blank, or would flare in anger. Horrible, horrible man. Now I'm thinking, did he BULLY Michael? Yell at him? Force him to take medications? I'm not sure. . . As he said, he "tried to control" Alvarez on the phone? The reality here might be very, very different from what we think we know?

I haven't read the transcript yet (as the idea of it makes me ill), but based on what we know from Murray over the course of the last two years combined with the documentary content I think you might be onto something.

I've started to think that Murray genuinely believes that he is the victim in all of this - that he truly believes he was duped by Michael and pressured into giving him propofol and now his entire life is a mess as a result. Whether that is a sign of mental illness on Murray's part or just a serious case of sociopathic narcissism I an unsure (personally, I think the latter). Either way, it would appear that Murray actually believes his own hype. I think, of itself, his willingness to allow a film crew to track his every move right up until the end of the trial - seemingly with total disregard for the fact that the reason he was being filmed in the first place is because a human being lost their life and he was on trial for Michael's death - is disturbing beyond comprehension. It demonstrates a callousness I've honestly never seen before. It would appear he is indeed incapable of telling the truth, such that it is almost pathological - every statement he makes is self-serving to the point of madness, all part of his relentless attempts to paint himself as an innocent bystander caught up in a mess he had no responsibility for. The whole thing is incomprehensible.

 

[passy001]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

Let me say this because i see that lots of people here have watched that despicable program.This is my personal opinion. MJ fans SHOULD NOT WATCH THIS PROGRAM OUT OF RESPECT ON MJ'S MEMORY not because they don't want to give ratings on those channels that broadcast it. I mean isn't it a bit hypocritical to protest against the show and then go and watch it? That show not only offends Mike's memory and makes mockery of that trial but should also offend us as human beings who who we claim that we live in a civilized society .

I agree 1000%. I have no interest in watching the show. bet it on Youtube or TV. I don't care. I won't watch it.

 

[ivy]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

I think Murray is a narcissist and has arrogance. He felt he was special, he blabbed to everyone about being Michael's doctor. He was allowed upstairs - according to him not something even his kids were allowed. He had the reign of the house and staff. He believed that he can cross examine Steinberg and made him fold. He believed he didn't need to call 911 because he was able and trained. This is narcissism. He can't be wrong - that explains his behavior. He gets angry when his superiority is questioned.

I am now thinking that it's very possible that he pushed the propofol and killed Michael in a fit of anger.

anger for what?

reading a transcript simply can't convey the whole "truth" about Murray

so I'm wasting my time then.

 

[Petrarose]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

Guys how what is the figure/range for high ratings?

Downstairs I like your points. Here is a guy who is being filmed because he killed someone, and even though he is innocent until proven guilty, at the time he was filmed, he knew he was guilty. The thing is he states he is innocent, and then makes himself believe it. His lack of conscience makes him feel quite comfortable being in the doc. He cries in the doc but does not cry when he is found guilty or sees Michael's dead body lying on the gurney. In fact, based on what those who saw the doc say, he seemed to show more emotion during the doc. If I was an emotional type, if I was found guilty of a crime I did not commit, I would be in tears or have a shocked look on my face. Muarry basically looked mad or rolled his eyes at people during court. He only cried when people said good things about him, because he was touched that they did not see through his callous core.

 

[Rhilo]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

I think Murray is a narcissist and has arrogance. He felt he was special, he blabbed to everyone about being Michael's doctor. He was allowed upstairs - according to him not something even his kids were allowed. He had the reign of the house and staff. He believed that he can cross examine Steinberg and made him fold. He believed he didn't need to call 911 because he was able and trained. This is narcissism. He can't be wrong - that explains his behavior. He gets angry when his superiority is questioned.



anger for what?



so I'm wasting my time then.

Um, no. Some people do read your transcripts, and appreciate the fact that you are posting them

 

[Victory22]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

Can't wait to get numbers on the ratings for this blaspheme. I hope they tank bigtime.

 

[Ramona122003]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

Guys how what is the figure/range for high ratings?

Downstairs I like your points. Here is a guy who is being filmed because he killed someone, and even though he is innocent until proven guilty, at the time he was filmed, he knew he was guilty. The thing is he states he is innocent, and then makes himself believe it. His lack of conscience makes him feel quite comfortable being in the doc. He cries in the doc but does not cry when he is found guilty or sees Michael's dead body lying on the gurney. In fact, based on what those who saw the doc say, he seemed to show more emotion during the doc. If I was an emotional type, if I was found guilty of a crime I did not commit, I would be in tears or have a shocked look on my face. Muarry basically looked mad or rolled his eyes at people during court. He only cried when people said good things about him, because he was touched that they did not see through his callous core.

I will say that some of Murray's sadness seem real. He actually does cry at one point when talking about Michael's death and he was so upset about that he walked away from the camera. Whether he's upset about causing the death or the mess he's in because of Michael's death is up for debate. When he talks about times of Michael being very upset, those parts also seem real, specially, when he talks about his father compare to Michael's.

The times which Murray comes off as really fake with his emotions is when he talks about Michael in a negative way or when he tries to explain himself. He has this strange smirk on his face during those times as if he knows he's passing bull.

Now, whether he was really real in the parts I named, I don't know.

 

[Victory22]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

Thank you for all your post Ivy.

 

[Resa]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

I think Murray is a narcissist and has arrogance. He felt he was special, he blabbed to everyone about being Michael's doctor. He was allowed upstairs - according to him not something even his kids were allowed. He had the reign of the house and staff. He believed that he can cross examine Steinberg and made him fold. He believed he didn't need to call 911 because he was able and trained. This is narcissism. He can't be wrong - that explains his behavior. He gets angry when his superiority is questioned.



anger for what?



so I'm wasting my time then.

Michael still hadn't signed the contract. Maybe Murray realized or suspected that he wouldn't be going to London. Personally, I now think that it's a possibility that Murray administered all of the Propofol on purpose in a fit of anger. Sadly, I don't think that we will ever know for sure exactly what happened that morning. The only person that is alive with answers is IMO a pathological liar.

Thank you for the transcripts, no you aren't wasting your time.

 

[Goodbye Michael]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

""Had I known what I know today in retrospect, that Mr. Jackson was an addict, and he had shared that information with me, addicts may behave in a way that is unreasonable and you may consider it," Murray said in the interview."

Did he forgot the part of the police interview where he said MJ was a Propofol addict?

exactly, you are spot on here. It's Murray that was supposedly weaning michael off propofol........the very drug he left lying around. I wish some of these journalists were quick enough to point out his contradictions and lies

 

[kristinaz]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

Here's what I thought after watching it so I do believe some of his story but first I gotta ask would the numbers he provided to the police with the other drugs mixed with the propofol have lead to them mixing and overpowering him and eventually causing death as he suggested tonight? I'm TERRIBLE at all this medical mumbo jumbo so I couldn't tell if that scenario is possible. I DO believe though Murray was frustrated by the morning. I love Michael with my heart but I can imagine how agitated Michael must have been by then and how he was prob driving Murray nuts about not being able to sleep. Both of them not having had much sleep I think Murray gave in and gave him the dose. I think with Alberto you can tell right before the end of the 911 call that Murray says something to him(I assume by then he was panicking) and which is what prompted Alberto to say "please please hurry" on the phone when the operator was asking him something. As for him not telling the UCLA doctors my mom's theory is he was too scared to actually tell them that he had been giving Michael propfol since it's not legal to give it to anyone outside of a hospital setting. I do believe some of his emotions were real but I couldn't figure out what he found so funny at one point but I'll be honest I did feel a bit sorry for him at one point and I kinda blame everyone involved now tbh but then again I don't know all the facts since I wasn't able to watch every day of court and haven't had time to catch up on what I missed yet so idk... anyways loved how his thoughts on Chernoff and Flanagan tbh I agree with him on that and loved that one part how Chernoff stood up for Michael when Flanagan was basically trashing him. The rest I haven't really sorted through my head yet but that's what I think so far..I normally don't give my opinion on things like these on here but for once I thought I would. I'm gonna watch the UK version later so I'll see if there's much of a difference between the 2.

 

[Ingelief]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

Yeah, but what struck me the most was Murray's ANGER. Horrible, horrible temper. I didn't totally expect that. I just hope he didn't treat Michael that way. . . . . . He was angry at EVERYONE -- his attorneys, the witnesses, Alvarez, AEG, and everyone. Oh, and where did THAT audio tape come from? They played another one, of Michael experiencing the effects of the drugs Murray was giving him, and slurring. NOT the one played in court, but something else. (unless it was part of that same audio? But then, why not play all of it in court? Might have been taped on a different occasion? Horrible. . . . he was taping those for the documentary! Wow, that's bad.)

i didnt hear a tape??? Can you or anybody provite me a link to that version? And the interview with savannah? Im very confused now, early here youtube links were given from the docu called the man who killed mj. Is that the australion version? There was no Joe, bedwetting or this tape mentioned, also no kitchen fight?



And if i read it correctly you guys dont believe randy spoke to Cm about that ''Fucking'' story? Cm told it so angry :S
Also why did the defense need more time in march when you see in the docu that white is at there house during the trial thinking of a stragedy. They had 2 years! Why ask in march for more time???? when it looks like they did all the work during the trial? Nicole and patients didnt need the time??? they just said they all love cm

 

[bubbyduck4MJ]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

Here's what I thought after watching it so I do believe some of his story but first I gotta ask would the numbers he provided to the police with the other drugs mixed with the propofol have lead to them mixing and overpowering him and eventually causing death as he suggested tonight? I'm TERRIBLE at all this medical mumbo jumbo so I couldn't tell if that scenario is possible. I DO believe though Murray was frustrated by the morning. I love Michael with my heart but I can imagine how agitated Michael must have been by then and how he was prob driving Murray nuts about not being able to sleep. Both of them not having had much sleep I think Murray gave in and gave him the dose. I think with Alberto you can tell right before the end of the 911 call that Murray says something to him(I assume by then he was panicking) and which is what prompted Alberto to say "please please hurry" on the phone when the operator was asking him something. As for him not telling the UCLA doctors my mom's theory is he was too scared to actually tell them that he had been giving Michael propfol since it's not legal to give it to anyone outside of a hospital setting. I do believe some of his emotions were real but I couldn't figure out what he found so funny at one point but I'll be honest I did feel a bit sorry for him at one point and I kinda blame everyone involved now tbh but then again I don't know all the facts since I wasn't able to watch every day of court and haven't had time to catch up on what I missed yet so idk... anyways loved how his thoughts on Chernoff and Flanagan tbh I agree with him on that and loved that one part how Chernoff stood up for Michael when Flanagan was basically trashing him. The rest I haven't really sorted through my head yet but that's what I think so far..I normally don't give my opinion on things like these on here but for once I thought I would. I'm gonna watch the UK version later so I'll see if there's much of a difference between the 2.

I feel similar.

 

[Ingelief]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

@ivy thank you for your help and thoughts on what happend. I found especially the part about the therapeutic range of propofol interesting. I always wanted to know why they came up with homicide, if the levels are consisted with an surgery, so likely therapeutic. But because of the homesetting and lying of cm it was a homicide?

Also i believe there was a drip why give only 25mg? But i have one question 2 you left, why were there all the flumazenil? I believe with the halflife of lorezapam and the amount Cm seems to gave michael everyday that to be able to be awake and the rehearse he gave michael everyday flumazenil to ween of the effects of the benzos for the night. Because he would have still be under the influence of it later that day and evening because of the long halflife.

Also what i believe is that because maybe Cm wanted to wean of the propofol he gave way to much benzos that night. If you look at shafers model and his police story it was like he said in the docu anamount to let an oliphant sleep. So i think that that also caused michaels death. Before he gave propofol but because he didnt for a few nights he increased the benzos, maybe till an to high level of the night of 25. And then the propofol drip add to that and you have an disaster,.

 

[Ramona122003]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

@ivy thank you for your help and thoughts on what happend. I found especially the part about the therapeutic range of propofol interesting. I always wanted to know why they came up with homicide, if the levels are consisted with an surgery, so likely therapeutic. But because of the homesetting and lying of cm it was a homicide?

Also i believe there was a drip why give only 25mg? But i have one question 2 you left, why were there all the flumazenil? I believe with the halflife of lorezapam and the amount Cm seems to gave michael everyday that to be able to be awake and the rehearse he gave michael everyday flumazenil to ween of the effects of the benzos for the night. Because he would have still be under the influence of it later that day and evening because of the long halflife.

Also what i believe is that because maybe Cm wanted to wean of the propofol he gave way to much benzos that night. If you look at shafers model and his police story it was like he said in the docu anamount to let an oliphant sleep. So i think that that also caused michaels death. Before he gave propofol but because he didnt for a few nights he increased the benzos, maybe till an to high level of the night of 25. And then the propofol drip add to that and you have an disaster,.

The thing is, the wean story never made sense. The DA didn't say it, I kind of wished they did, you can't get physically hooked to propofol. So Murray could had stopped all treatment and it wouldn't had affected Michael's physically. Not to mention the benzos he were using are highly additive and shouldn't be used for long-term sleep problems. So Murray was actually making the problem worst because he was going to get Michael hooked on Lopz.

 

[soulmum]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

After this documentary maybe Murray will be asking to be treated leniently at sentencing because he's a pork pie short of a picnic!! lol

 

[suzynyc]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

Well shoot me but I watched the documentary and I still don't feel sorry for Murray one bit. He's still guilty.

I noticed he said it was not unusual for him to leave Michael alone as he made calls, etc. So yes, as Walgren said in court, it's a wonder Michael lived this long under Murray's "care".

What is this about a different audio tape being played in the documentary? The one I heard was the same one played in court...

 

[LastTear]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

Who feels sorry for him?

To tell the truth I really feel sorry for Alberto, he really tugged at my heart strings when he was on the stand and when he talked about his life since the 25th. Murray and co have really tried hard to shift the blame onto him. I saw a clip where murray was talking about the 911 call and trying to make AA look like an idiot.

 

[shelly_webster]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

Honestly, I will never understand why he didn't hide that bag himself. If theories are to believe, he got rid of that propofol IV, but didn't think to get rid of the bag and the bottle himself? I didn't really believe AA's story just because I didn't believe Murray would be that stupid to have the bodyguard help him hide evident. I guess we can all be thankful that Murray was an all and all moron.

I think Murray was in panic and wasn't thinking at all.

 

[myosotis]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

I think Murray is a narcissist and has arrogance. He felt he was special, he blabbed to everyone about being Michael's doctor. He was allowed upstairs - according to him not something even his kids were allowed. He had the reign of the house and staff. He believed that he can cross examine Steinberg and made him fold. He believed he didn't need to call 911 because he was able and trained. This is narcissism. He can't be wrong - that explains his behavior. He gets angry when his superiority is questioned.

so I'm wasting my time then.

I couldn't agree more with the first assessment.....I really feel that he sees himself as a 'god-like' Dr.... whose word is not to be questioned by anyone, including other 'authority' figures...even in his own profession. His arrogance is astounding, and his capacity to lie (including, I suspect, to himself), is limitless. A sort of 'Walter Mitty' Dr, who has an alternative 'life' in his own head, where all is wonderful except for the mean people who treat him so badly.


And no Ivy, you are never wasting your time... I find your posts hugely informative, interesting and helpful.

 

[shelly_webster]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

"Murray: In the course of ??? IV in him, I felt that his veins were horrific. They were very cordlike and they were like spider webs. And I said to Michael "the only time I have seen this type of vein appearance in a patient is people that are drug users, drug abusers and his response in a very childish voice which I can clearly imitate but I choose to not do that "really?" and I said "yes" and that was the end of that. He would not account for that."

Did the coroner spoke about MJ's veins and if yes what did he said?

 

[Bridgett_361]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

after listening all the testimony and these interviews / documentary this is what I believe

I think that Murray was somewhat telling the truth that Michael wasn't able to sleep that night and Murray tried to use Lorazepam instead of Propofol and gave Michael a lot more Lorazepam then he said. Edited to add: I think the June 19 sickness of Michael was due to effects of Propofol and Murray knowing it started to change the medicines around before Michael's death.

I believe like as he said he gave Michael Propofol later after Michael said he would cancel the rehearsal and wanted to sleep. . Like Shafer suggested and Steinberg argued I believe he gave Michael Propofol around 9 AM and put him on a drip. By that time he was working for 8 hours to get Michael to sleep and he was probably exhausted and annoyed. He left Michael on drip sleeping and went to next room to perhaps take a nap and /or talk email etc. I think Michael died during that time as the doctors suggested. His breathing stopped and then his heart.

I think Murray was coming into the room to change Propofol and put a new bottle to the drip (I think the goal was to get Michael to sleep a long time). He realized Michael wasn't breathing and did the first thing to stop the Propofol drip - easiest way pulled the line. It might have been even fallen to the floor. He tried to revive Michael probably by giving Flumanezil and doing the leg lift etc as he said - but Michael was dead and during this moving etc the beads left an impression. As a doctor he soon realized he was long gone (hence his odd comment in the interview "how the experts know he was not long dead").

He knew that paramedics / doctors as trained people would able to tell Michael wasn't "just down" and long dead (and they did) so he didn't really have time to waste and started to call MAW or run downstairs to Kai Chase. He came up with "I came into the room and just found him like this" theory. If police never investigated this , they wouldn't found Sade Anding and think that Murray realized michael was dead during his talk with her. When Alberto came to the room and he was about to call the paramedics , he probably realized that if paramedics came to the room and saw the setup they would be able to identify a drip. that's why he stopped Alberto and turned into collecting items and the drip. (That's an emergency situation and I don't think he planned this , so he was making decisions as he went along and not perfectly planned)

The rest was a show for everyone involved Alberto, paramedics , UCLA doctors. It was just to say that "we tried hard". As paramedics was taking Michael down , Murray was still collecting up the items - 3 vials Blount saw wasn't there when CSI was in the room and like Walgren said Murray might have picked up the IV line and put it in his pocket - it would be impossible to prove a drip without a line. and I said it multiple times we all know that people will take the murder weapon from the scene and destroy it. If IV was the cause of death here, it's only logical to think that murray took the murder weapon with him. This is very similar to like a murderer taking the gun and throwing it away in ocean. I also think that he had every intention to go back and get the rest of the items.

He played Alberto as well. Alberto is a layman, a bodyguard, didn't know anything about medical stuff and was already shocked to see Michael dead. Murray approached him at the hospital to do thank you and we did our best line. That was to deceive Alberto to believe that they did everything they are supposed to do and it just wasn't enough. Alberto wouldn't think that anything significant happened or suspect Murray and wouldn't mention it. (until the moment he saw the bags on TV and he went wait a minute I touched that)

He tried to play Michael Amir and Faheem as well with that cream line but I think from their testimony and characters , they seem to be more street smart. Alberto seems to be more naive and not suspecting. Also in one of the interviews I believe Murray said he had the reign over the house and staff.

I also think that TMZ was kinda right in their interpretation of Murray's police interview. Murray knew that what they would find in Michael's system and he thought that his medical bags was discovered. At that time police was clueless so he planned to get ahead the story and take advantage of police's lack of information. He gave them a story that would include the items in Michael's system. Media was running with the theory of an Demerol OD. Murray used that to blame other doctors and portray an addict.

He hoped that the police would see this as not an homicide and they would find the drugs in Michael's system in therapeutic ranges (even technically Propofol was in that range) and this would go away as cardiac arrest.

I believe when tox results came back and even if it was in therapeutic range , coroner's office said "wait but this is not a surgery room , it's a home" and they asked an expert and when that person said IV location wasn't an easy location and they had found all those bottles they came to the most simplest and logical conclusion : a lot more Propofol then 25 mg + home setting + a lot of propofol bottles in the house + IV is not an easy /convenient location = Murray gave him more propofol. and then as they investigated more (probably actual investigation didn't start after the tox results) , they found more and more of Murray's lies and inconsistencies.

You piece all the puzzle together, but if you look at Murray phone activity he put MJ down way before 9am.
He was scared silly when dr Schafer piece the case to gather with a drip because he knew there was a drip.
let's face it the science say it is 99% impossible for MJ to have that blood level by self injecting,
Dr white did not really do any proper research in this case to support his many theories, dr schafer did his home work,
not because cops did not find a drip do not say one was not use, my thing is after seeing Murray in action it's either one MJ was on a drip Iv setup or two Murray in a fit of angry inject MJ with the large dose of propofol!!!! { it take me 2plus years to say it may very well have been MURDER, clue Murray bet MJ had money so he gave up every thing to be his doctor, randy Philip gave him a rude awaking I am paying for everything Speach, and to top it all MJ was not signing the contract,
That is how Murray felt MJ betray him and entrap him it's not the drug Murray did not know about it was the money}
Are we to honestly to believe Murray did not know he was going to give MJ propofol from the get go? He was ordering the drugs from day one,
Its the money he did not know about, he place his bet and when he got in he see MJ was not the pot of gold he though, and to top it off he his now seeing the real MJ unmask with ton of issues, and that contract was not sign he may have got word that
MJ was still shopping around for a proper doctor, I am 50/50% on Murray killing michael Jackson with intent.

 

[xthunderx2]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

I think Murray is a narcissist and has arrogance. He felt he was special, he blabbed to everyone about being Michael's doctor. He was allowed upstairs - according to him not something even his kids were allowed. He had the reign of the house and staff. He believed that he can cross examine Steinberg and made him fold. He believed he didn't need to call 911 because he was able and trained. This is narcissism. He can't be wrong - that explains his behavior. He gets angry when his superiority is questioned.



anger for what?



so I'm wasting my time then.

thank you Ivy this is Exactly the way that made me feel too...Murray is very very arrogant,...thinks he was better than most. Again thank you for taking the time to do the transcripts. I didnt watch it lat night, But I did manager to see some on youtube. How about the end of the interview when Murray is talking about the benzos and the propofol and the interviewer asked about the 25 milligrams ...and Murray's whole face got that twisted arrogant look to it as he sad. "it was not the propofol". Murray definitely has anger issues. And the way that he said,,,"I dont think that Michael ment to hurt me" ..I just smh,,,and was like "what"? is this guy talking about. YEAH Murray has ALOT of problems.

 

[LastTear]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

Worrying thing is that if they followed murray around for two years they must have alot more footage than has been shown.

 

[Autumn II]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

anger for what?

For being fired? It's entirely possible Michael told him that night his services wouldn't be needed in London. It's probably true, that Michael was "clean" for those last two rehearsals, and did very well. He saw the damage Murray was doing? Michael was packing to go to London, by then. The unsigned contract was in Murray's car. If Murray had lost his meal-ticket, given his great need for money, I think it's entirely possible that he snapped. And now I see how instantly ANGRY he can become!

so I'm wasting my time then.

Not at ALL, and the transcripts have a lot of value! Thanks! But, I think I've said before I have a background in cultural anthropology, and a large part of that focus is on "communications," and especially non-verbal communications. Personally, I gained knowledge from WATCHING, that I could not have done any other way, because what I SEE, and HEAR, adds to the total picture.

The two primary things that I gained by watching were: Murray's over-the-top religiosity (and sense of entitlement), and the extent of his rage. I hadn't quite realized.

Now I'm thinking that it's possible that he has a diagnosable mental illness? Nothing wrong with being religious, but Murray was using it as proof of some sort of "entitlement." Seriously, when he was praying, he was swaying back and forth so much it seemed like he would topped over! I actually DO believe in miracles, but I also highly doubt that Murray saw "the Holy Spirit" (right down the the "garments He was wearing") and received messages designed just for him!

I also had no idea that Murray had such a hair-trigger! I can now easily imagine him yelling at Kenny Ortega, or at anyone else who got in his way. He was ANGRY at his attorneys, at the witnesses, at AEG, and even at Michael for "hurting him by DYING." You can READ that someone called someone else "stupid," and that gives an impression, but when I saw the venom in Murray's expression when he said it -- that added a whole new dimension. I now think that Murray is incredibly dangerous, in a physical sense!

 

[elusive moonwalker]

"Murray: In the course of ??? IV in him, I felt that his veins were horrific. They were very cordlike and they were like spider webs. And I said to Michael "the only time I have seen this type of vein appearance in a patient is people that are drug users, drug abusers and his response in a very childish voice which I can clearly imitate but I choose to not do that "really?" and I said "yes" and that was the end of that. He would not account for that. Did the coroner spoke about MJ's veins and if yes what did he said?

he said they were small. not damaged not like an addicts.just more b.s thrown in by murray

 

[ivy]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

Michael still hadn't signed the contract. Maybe Murray realized or suspected that he wouldn't be going to London. Personally, I now think that it's a possibility that Murray administered all of the Propofol on purpose in a fit of anger. Sadly, I don't think that we will ever know for sure exactly what happened that morning. The only person that is alive with answers is IMO a pathological liar.

I don't think the contract was a factor. We learned that AEG lawyer was still working on the contract and making changes to it. Murray only got the final contract and signed it on June 24. Michael died on June 25th. It's only 1 day. I don't think he had a reason to believe that Michael wouldn't sign it. It's not like the contract waited for Michael's signature for days / weeks.

@ivy thank you for your help and thoughts on what happend. I found especially the part about the therapeutic range of propofol interesting. I always wanted to know why they came up with homicide, if the levels are consisted with an surgery, so likely therapeutic. But because of the homesetting and lying of cm it was a homicide?

the levels were okay for a surgery but Michael wasn't receiving surgery , that's why.

The thing is, the wean story never made sense. The DA didn't say it, I kind of wished they did, you can't get physically hooked to propofol. So Murray could had stopped all treatment and it wouldn't had affected Michael's physically. Not to mention the benzos he were using are highly additive and shouldn't be used for long-term sleep problems. So Murray was actually making the problem worst because he was going to get Michael hooked on Lopz.

Wean didn't make sense as he kept ordering Propofol. After Lee's testimony I kinda felt that June 19 event and hot / cold effect was due to Propofol and Murray stopped giving it for a while. Like Walgren said it's surprising that Michael lived this long with that kind of care. It's possible that he had some sort of reaction to that treatment.

MJ was still shopping around for a proper doctor, I am 50/50% on Murray killing michael Jackson with intent.

u know what. Ratner was an anesthesiologist and Michael was probably looking for one - he probably wanted Adams. Murray as a cardiologist was his expert to look over him in case something went wrong. I don't think Michael was irresponsible. Murray started negotiating with AEG. AEG thought the doctor was unneeded and expensive , as they didn't know the specific reason they thought they could get a doctor in London. Murray put Adams aside and tried to strengthen his position. In the last contract draft he changed the additional staff from nurse to a doctor. I think if his contract was signed by AEG and Michael and his position was secure he would have brought in Adams or another anesthesiologist.

For being fired? It's entirely possible Michael told him that night his services wouldn't be needed in London.

You know what I don't think so. For all firings we know Michael never fired anyone personally. If Murray was going to be fired he would probably get AEG or Dileo send him a letter. That night MAW had called Murray to come home for Michael and Michael went into the room to get "treatment" for him. It doesn't seem like a firing.

 

[smoothlugar]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

it would be impossible to prove a drip without a line.

A bit OTP, but, I wanted to point out that it wasn't impossible, since the tear in the bottle stopper was caused by a spike (the extreme part of an IV line to extract the medicine when infused), and not by a syringe. Both the coroner and Dr. Shafer said this, though Walgren in the closing statement I think he forgot to emphasize it.

 

[Ramona122003]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

Another thing I found interesting about the defense is that they apparently spun the Lopz theory on the DA. The defense was bragging about how the Lopz caught everyone off-guard. To me, it looked like they didn't believe their own theory and threw it out there to catch the DA flat-footed. Flan even bragged about how he got Dr. Copper to say what he wanted. For the defense, it didn't start to fall apart until the doctors were called.

 

[Autumn II]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

Ivy, thanks for your narrative of what probably happened. That is the most likely/logical scenario, I think. However, some (not all) of what we know -- or think we know -- necessarily comes from Murray's own words. And of course, those words cannot be trusted. Your narrative is LOGICAL. One thing I got from the documentary is how illogical Murray really is. He literally doesn't seem to know truth from fiction. It might not even be that he's consciously LYING, but has some sort of mental disturbance where he constructs his own reality, and actually believes it?

(OT, somewhat, but I thought it was very disturrrrbing, how the musical accompaniment to the docu was very similar to Bashir's LWMJ. Sort of "tweedle," "crazy-person" music, and eerie. Except, this time, it was Murray who was the target, mostly.)

Murray didn't seem at all linear, nor logical, in the docu. He veered between religious fervor, to extreme anger, to crocodile tears. A VERY unstable person. There is a lot that exists on the edges of a logical narrative, that probably never will be explained. Although it wasn't allowed at the trial, there is Murray's overall character (lack of). He seems to be truly centerless, and without any sort of ethical foundation, at all. There is his arrest record for domestic abuse. ANGER (even though he was not convicted). There was that patient he abandoned at the hospital, and had a "warning" written up about that. There is is failure to take responsibility for his own children, and the multiple baby-mamas and kids. There is the fact that he SECRETLY was filming this docu, for two YEARS. There are those awful audio tapes of Michael, that now seem intended FOR the docu. And his obvious lie that they were taped "accidentally." (could not possibly be true). He simply couldn't control his cheating on women. He was living with one baby-mama, and continuing to troll for others at that same time ("Sade" and the phone-call, for example.) This man had NO ethical foundation, at all, and that makes him very much of a wild-card.

So, there are all those things, and more, that exist on the edges of a logical narrative. We can't believe ANYTHING Murray says, and sadly, we'll never know, for sure, what really happened.

(again OT, but I had a DREAM last night that Murray had died. Okey, dokey. . . .)