Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor"

[Popescu]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

The amount of lies Murray told invalidates everything that he may have said and it was the truth.
My personal opinion is that the Randy story is true. It's backed up by Kenny's email about "pulling the plug" and he just strikes me as the kind of man who would make such awful statements.

I personally think that the pee story is a lie. I wasn't going to comment on that, because it feels like an extraordinary invasion of privacy. But hey, we talked about his insides and whatnot from the AR and it doesn't feel like we're actually talking about Michael, so what the hell. I think that Murray is lying in the sense that he gave general anesthesia and total or partial incontinence is a side effect. He used that in order to sensationalize his story.

I don't know if the pictures are actually from the first police visit, which I think happened before the family went there. But if they're not, shame on them. They had a damn truck loaded with stuff and they couldn't remove the personal items which had no value in their eyes?

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

so when it is convenient you believe Conrad Murray?

 

[Petrarose]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

Ivy thanks for the correction, so they showed a clip of the room that was shown in court?

King of Pop i agree with you too. All these claims about Michael we would have heard about a long time ago if they were true. How typical that the interviewer did not ask Muarry very probing questions!!!! It is almost as though they want to make Muarry look like a fool and psycho, but will not Michael the victim look good at the same time.

 

[Ramona122003]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

so when it is convenient you believe Conrad Murray?

Which I'm more than certain what the family will be doing. I am looking at the doc now and he does allot of finger pointing at AEG and blaming them for Michael's lack of sleep and stress. He even said that there is footage of incomplete rehearsals and a sick Michael. You know, the stuff the defense couldn't find.


Kind of off subject, Murray actually called the other heard doctor stupid and got all over Flan for the mess up cross. It sounded like he wanted to murder the guy on the stand, seriously.

 

[Petrarose]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

so when it is convenient you believe Conrad Murray?

^^This is what I have been thinking as well. I know we have our own opinions, but we know Muarry tells a lot of lies and it seem to me that we don't believe things he says if he says it against the person we like, but if he says it about a person we dislike, we think it is true. This does not seem very logical to me.

This thing with Randy, I do not understand in what context he would make a statement like that to the doctor who he does not want on the tour. His only contact with Muarry is to deal with Michael's health, so what conversation could they be having g that would cause a response like that. Further, Randy does not own AEG, so he is not giving his own money to Michael. Further, the pulling Muarry aside part sounds too off for their type of relationship.

The only thing I believe from Muarry mouth is that he knows his name, he was a doc, and he worked for Michael. Everything else is up for debate.

Ramona which other head doctor are you talking about. Do you mean Steinberg or Kamangar?

 

[ivy]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

Ivy thanks for the correction, so they showed a clip of the room that was shown in court?

no they are pictures. Coroner and LAPD had taken hundreds of photos and we had seen some but not all in trial. Defense was given copies of them and they are using them at the documentary.

 

[loveforever]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

:busted: are Randy Philips and Conrad Murray good pals? unless Randy was a idiot or he and Conrad Murray were very very close, I can't think any reason he would say those disrespectful things to Michael Jackson's personal doctor, when he knew it could go directly into Michael's ears.

He even said that there is footage of incomplete rehearsals and a sick Michael.

funny, he told everyone voluntarily about how healthy Michael was and how amazing he was during the rehearsals... before 6/25. even in 6/25 morning, he was replying email saying Michael was healthy.

he cannot speak without a lie. This man is sick.

 

[riviera1992]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

For god sake, if Michael Jackson really 'wet his bed', do you really think this shit just come out now? We are talking about Michael jackson, the man who spent most his life in hotels around the world.

Thanks. This is the best argument against this Murray statement. You better believe that if Michael would've have an accident in ANY hotel he stayed in, the hotel staff would've had a field day with this and it would've been in all the tabloids around the world.

But even if it was true, it would certainly explain the incredible level of insomnia because any hypnotherapist will tell you that insomnia is caused because the brain refuse to let itself fall into the subconscious mind where some traumatic events are deeply buried and once asleep in the 5th stage, the REM stage, is where dreams or nightmares occur. Therefore NOT falling asleep is the ONLY way to avoid the horrible nightmares and wet the bed because of that.

So when I read this part
"I have seen him cry so many times. I told him it is OK to cry, it is OK, it is OK, Michael, you can cry ... What was done to him was far more than a beating by his father. He harmed Michael. It was so deep it would remove the world off its axis."

I thought to myself; this is way too farfetch for Murray to make this up and I started to think that maybe some of the stories I read in other more open forums about Joe having to let some Hollywood brass pedos having their way with young Michael to seal a deal or what not, came back to my mind. I totally dismissed those crasy stories at the time but when things add up more and more, one begins to wonder.

Michael, I love you more.

 

[Petrarose]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

:busted: are Randy Philips and Conrad Murray good pals? unless Randy was a idiot or he and Conrad Murray were very very close, I can't think any reason he would say those disrespectful things to Michael Jackson's personal doctor, when he knew it could go directly into Michael's ears.

he cannot speak without a lie. This man is sick.

EXACTLY!!! It is like me pulling my friend to the side to give her some inside info about a guy we both hate. What it seems it that Muarry wants to get back at some people in the tour for personal injuries and this is his way of doing it.

Thanks Ivy I got it.

 

[Ramona122003]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

^^This is what I have been thinking as well. I know we have our own opinions, but we know Muarry tells a lot of lies and it seem to me that we don't believe things he says if he says it against the person we like, but if he says it about a person we dislike, we think it is true. This does not seem very logical to me.

This thing with Randy, I do not understand in what context he would make a statement like that to the doctor who he does not want on the tour. His only contact with Muarry is to deal with Michael's health, so what conversation could they be having g that would cause a response like that. Further, Randy does not own AEG, so he is not giving his own money to Michael. Further, the pulling Muarry aside part sounds too off for their type of relationship.

The only thing I believe from Muarry mouth is that he knows his name, he was a doc, and he worked for Michael. Everything else is up for debate.

Ramona which other head doctor are you talking about. Do you mean Steinberg or Kamangar?

Specially, Dr. Steinberg. Murray hated that guy's guts and called him stupid. He went as far as to say he could cross him because he was such a moron. It was so over the top I couldn't believe they thought it was a good idea to air that. He was so animated that I think he would had attacked Steinberg if he wasn't in open court. Although, he didn't like Dr. Kamangar very much either.

On a funny note on that part, when he dogged Flan on the cross he ranted for at least 2 minutes going on and on about the being an expert and talking to him. Apparently, he was pissed that Flan lost the argument over the infusion.


I just saw the rest of the doc and Murray seems to strongly imply through in his last interview that Michael hurt and betrayed him by dying. His pray about those spreading false witness against him is laughable and self-serving. It seems he tries to come off as spiritual, but he really comes off as one of those fake tv pastors and he makes it sounds like Michael duped him into selling his soul. All and all, this entire doc was all about him and how this had ruin his life. He never mentions Michael's family or his children except as a backdrop to why he hates AA. And I do mean he hates AA. You can hear the venom in his voice.

 

[ivy]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

He never mentions Michael's family or his children except as a backdrop to why he hates AA. And I do mean he hates AA. You can hear the venom in his voice.

He would hate Alberto. Because the drip from his statement was doubtful - jury could have believed it either way. Alberto is the person with his testimony made the drip a lot more reality.

 

[Petrarose]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

Specially, Dr. Steinberg. Murray hated that guy's guts and called him stupid. He went as far as to say he could cross him because he was such a moron. It was so over the top I couldn't believe they thought it was a good idea to air that. He was so animated that I think he would had attacked Steinberg if he wasn't in open court. Although, he didn't like Dr. Kamangar very much either.

On a funny note on that part, when he dogged Flan on the cross he ranted for at least 2 minutes going on and on about the being an expert and talking to him. Apparently, he was pissed that Flan lost the argument over the infusion.


I just saw the rest of the doc and Murray seems to strongly imply through in his last interview that Michael hurt and betrayed him by dying. His pray about those spreading false witness against him is laughable and self-serving. It seems he tries to come off as spiritual, but he really comes off as one of those fake tv pastors and he makes it sounds like Michael duped him into selling his soul. All and all, this entire doc was all about him and how this had ruin his life. He never mentions Michael's family or his children except as a backdrop to why he hates AA. And I do mean he hates AA. You can hear the venom in his voice.

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. The parts about Steinberg and the cross really killed me. Thanks for that I needed that laugh. Now we have Steinberg the idiot according to Muarry. Wasn't Flan The Great Prof Defender who was the only person on Planet Earth to defend someone in a prof case and win? Well that ranking did not last long it seems.

 

[Ramona122003]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

EXACTLY!!! It is like me pulling my friend to the side to give her some inside info about a guy we both hate. What it seems it that Muarry wants to get back at some people in the tour for personal injuries and this is his way of doing it.

Thanks Ivy I got it.

Sorry about the double post.


You are quite right about him getting back at people. He specially railed against AA, actually twisted Kenny's email to make it sound like Michael was sick for a long time instead of being just a one day event, Randy for lying about how he tortured Michael by bankrolling everything, all the doctor witnesses, and of course Michael.

I think the biggest insult was him suggesting that Michael was mostly doing TII for money, but at the same time painted Michael as having a Messiah complex and used his drugged up recording to prove it. He also seemed to strongly suggest that Michael was doing something bad in his bedroom. He kept emphasizing how 'no' was allowed in there, especially the private bedroom. Not even his kids unless they were with him. It was the opening to Flan insulting Michael's room and how it looks liked on one cleaned it in months. He did wondered what he did in there. It was really that subtle.

I also noticed that the version I had edit some parts out. The bed wetting part is missing, as well as his explanation for not calling 911, and for not telling the MTs about drugs. Really, I think they did this to make Murray look better and he still came across as an asshole.

 

[Ramona122003]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

He would hate Alberto. Because the drip from his statement was doubtful - jury could have believed it either way. Alberto is the person with his testimony made the drip a lot more reality.

Honestly, I will never understand why he didn't hide that bag himself. If theories are to believe, he got rid of that propofol IV, but didn't think to get rid of the bag and the bottle himself? I didn't really believe AA's story just because I didn't believe Murray would be that stupid to have the bodyguard help him hide evident. I guess we can all be thankful that Murray was an all and all moron.

 

[Autumn II]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

You know, I am not the biggest letter writer to TV stations. However, these incredible HIPPA violations make me research that topic even more. And, Murray isn't the only one. For someone who worked in that field- it is one of these things that disturbs me even more.

It might be worthwhile to see if one of us knows an 'expert' in the field- this is outrageous. Not just for Michael- but all of us have a vested interested in our medical information being kept PRIVATE.

Maybe some of the medical experts here can address this? It was an OUTRAGE.

I watched the whole thing and took notes, and I'm glad I did -- even though it was very painful. I'll give a few impressions here, and then let it "marinate" overnight.

There were things gained by watching that a transcript simply cannot convey. Specifically, Murray's expression of emotion. His "religious and prayerful" moments seemed entirely fake, and staged. What was NOT staged, were his flares of anger. He has a HUGE temper! I found it chilling, actually. I am now thinking that it's very possible that he pushed the propofol and killed Michael in a fit of anger. He was angry at his attorneys (f-bombs), and called them "stupid." I also saw delusions of grandeur there? Where he, Murray, knew best how to try the case? He was angry at Alvarez, too (I don't think Alvarez did anything wrong). His anger would flare so QUICKLY!

I'll go over my notes (detailed), but one thing I want to mention for now. . . . and I don't know if anyone else who watched, caught it? When talking about Alvarez -- and BLAMING him -- Murray said, "I was trying to control him on the phone." (as if Alvarez did something wrong when speaking to 911? - which he did not.) It was the word "control" that struck me. I think this is a man who tries to control other people, with his anger! What did he really DO to Michael? Murray is incapable of telling the truth, so do we even know? Really?

Murray also was pissed off at AEG. In fact, the only person he felt was innocent -- was himself.

He is clinically mentally ill? This man is truly dangerous, and Pastor was quite right to deny him bail. Those moments of histrionic religiosity sure made him seem like a nut-case? He shows no remorse at all (and never has). He even blamed Michael for "hurting HIM," by dying! I think these things were pretty obvious, and the one who was trashed the most in the docu -- was MURRAY. Just by being himself.

Strangely, Chernoff came off the best, I thought. He actually defended Michael (somewhat), when Flanny's wife was trashing him. I can certainly see why he moved out! (and was that a gin-and tonic Flanny was drinking? Looked like it, and he seemed to be slurring his words.)

So yeah, as rough as it was to watch this, reading a transcript simply can't convey the whole "truth" about Murray -- that he is a homicidal MONSTER, completely lacking a conscience. His eyes were either blank, or would flare in anger. Horrible, horrible man. Now I'm thinking, did he BULLY Michael? Yell at him? Force him to take medications? I'm not sure. . . As he said, he "tried to control" Alvarez on the phone? The reality here might be very, very different from what we think we know?

(edit) I fully understand and support those for whom this was just too much to bear. But for myself, I will never have closure until I KNOW all I can know about what really happened to Michael. The show was enlightening in just that way, in terms of seeing Murray's demeanor (horrible) as he spoke the words we can read in transcripts. I do applaud a Twitter campaign (but I don't have Twitter). It can be a good form of activism. But as for turning tvs off? Nobody knows if you do or don't, and it has little or no impact, on MSNBC or their advertisers. (and I'm sure some folks can tweet AND watch a tv, simultaneously?)

 

[MsCassieMollie]

https://twitter.com/#!/DeborahFfrench
TwitLonger — When you talk too much for Twitter

Wise words from a Wise Woman:

I feel cheated, I really do. Hearing the verdict on Monday was rather anti-climatic for me, because almost straight upon its heels came the Murray documentary and the fight to stop it from airing. We barely had enough time to absorb the guilty verdict, let alone celebrate it and the beginning of justice for Michael. I resent that being taken away from the fans and supporters. Twitter and facebook have been a-buzz for days, and while I contributed my own tweets and posts calling for action and awareness, made my phone calls and wrote my emails in the hope it would make a difference, I realized nothing was going to stop it from going ahead. $$$$ and greed are powerful adversaries.

So yesterday I closed down shop and took the day away from it all. For one, I refused to give this atrocity they call a documentary, anymore free publicity than it has already, inadvertently gained. I will not be watching it, I don’t wish to educate myself on it; I will not add to its ratings by a click from my mouse or the flick of my TV remote. For another, I have been disturbed by the anger, the attacks against Michael’s family and against other fans, the vile language some are using, and most importantly, what appears to be the rise of a contingent of fans who are in support of Murray and his documentary.

I realize everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but this support defies explanation to me. It is a madness I do not understand and reveals a part of human nature that is comprised of darkness of which I have no wish to venture into. But I will question any fan, who sets themselves up as a sort of demigod and draws worshippers to their altars, I will question the self-serving, I will question those who spout love, and then spew hate against others, and I will question those who act and speak in anger and ask, why are you here; for what purpose?

Do we want to be recognized as rabid fans, or do we want to be accepted as intelligent, responsible and diligent supporters of Michael’s humanity and legacy? Being ambassadors comprises many things, but the most important aspect of it is that we represent Michael. We must act from a place of respect, dignity and integrity, and we must hold true to the example he set for us, otherwise, we have no place here, and no right to call ourselves fans or supporters.

The majority of this community is a wonderful, eclectic assortment of hard-working and loving people who have inspired me in many ways, and given me hope that true justice and acknowledgement of Michael and his legacy will be realized. For that other element that has infiltrated and arisen within the community, take a good look in the mirror and see if your reflection is one worthy of representing everything that Michael stood for.

Valmai Owens
Director of Publications/Tribute Book Editor
Editor-in-Chief of the Official MJTP E-magazine
Patchwork Project Organizer, MJTP
editor@MichaelJacksonTributePortrait.com
Michael Jackson Tribute Portrait


TURN THE TV OFF.

 

[Severus Snape]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

Murray and his lawyers were so stupid to believe that this documentary would be good for them? :bugeyed Really? :lol: :sigh: This was a shot in the foot. :doh:

I don't think his lawyers believed this doc. was going to be good for Murray. As difficult as it may be to believe, they're not that stupid. They got their check and it looks like they're both walking away (at least this is what I heard). It was also incredibly obvious neither of them cared for Murray or the case as a whole, seeing the lazy way they treated it in court. They basically exploited him for his high-profile case, and, well...look who got paid and chauffered/pampered by MSNBC and look who is eating cheese sandwiches in prison.

In short, Murray's welfare/best interest never crossed either Chernoff's nor Flanagan's mind, just like Michael's welfare/best interest never crossed Murray's.

 

[Ramona122003]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

Maybe some of the medical experts here can address this? It was an OUTRAGE.

I watched the whole thing and took notes, and I'm glad I did -- even though it was very painful. I'll give a few impressions here, and then let it "marinate" overnight.

There were things gained by watching that a transcript simply cannot convey. Specifically, Murray's expression of emotion. His "religious and prayerful" moments seemed entirely fake, and staged. What was NOT staged, were his flares of anger. He has a HUGE temper! I found it chilling, actually. I am now thinking that it's very possible that he pushed the propofol and killed Michael in a fit of anger. He was angry at his attorneys (f-bombs), and called them "stupid." I also saw delusions of grandeur there? Where he, Murray, knew best how to try the case? He was angry at Alvarez, too (I don't think Alvarez did anything wrong). His anger would flare so QUICKLY!

I'll go over my notes (detailed), but one thing I want to mention for now. . . . and I don't know if anyone else who watched, caught it? When talking about Alvarez -- and BLAMING him -- Murray said, "I was trying to control him on the phone." (as if Alvarez did something wrong when speaking to 911? - which he did not.) It was the word "control" that struck me. I think this is a man who tries to control other people, with his anger! What did he really DO to Michael? Murray is incapable of telling the truth, so do we even know? Really?

Murray also was pissed off at AEG. In fact, the only person he felt was innocent -- was himself.

He is clinically mentally ill? This man is truly dangerous, and Pastor was quite right to deny him bail. Those moments of histrionic religiosity sure made him seem like a nut-case? He shows no remorse at all (and never has). He even blamed Michael for "hurting HIM," by dying! I think these things were pretty obvious, and the one who was trashed the most in the docu -- was MURRAY. Just by being himself.

Strangely, Chernoff came off the best, I thought. He actually defended Michael (somewhat), when Flanny's wife was trashing him. I can certainly see why he moved out! (and was that a gin-and tonic Flanny was drinking? Looked like it, and he seemed to be slurring his words.)

So yeah, as rough as it was to watch this, reading a transcript simply can't convey the whole "truth" about Murray -- that he is a homicidal MONSTER, completely lacking a conscience. His eyes were either blank, or would flare in anger. Horrible, horrible man. Now I'm thinking, did he BULLY Michael? Yell at him? Force him to take medications? I'm not sure. . . As he said, he "tried to control" Alvarez on the phone? The reality here might be very, very different from what we think we know?

I honestly don't think Murray controlled Michael, at least not in the way you describe. Given how Michael was bullied by Joe for half of his life, I don't think he would response well to others trying to run his life. If Murray showed those kind of temper flares to Michael, I think Michael would had kicked him to the curve quick since such a man poses a danger to themselves and his kids. I think Murray used his charm, which doesn't really show in this doc, to gain Michael's trust and manipulate him. If Michael had any doubt about his treatment, Murray most likely assured him and maybe even played on Michael's insecurities.

I can imagine him saying, "Michael, you have to trust me to get you to sleep, otherwise you would be too tire to do your tours. You don't want that and let your kids and fans down. You also need the money to build your children hospital. I know what I'm doing. I'm your friend, after all."

Murray says Michael entrapped him, but I honestly think it was the other way around.

 

[Petrarose]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

His "religious and prayerful" moments seemed entirely fake, and staged. What was NOT staged, were his flares of anger. He has a HUGE temper! I found it chilling, actually. I am now thinking that it's very possible that he pushed the propofol and killed Michael in a fit of anger. He was angry at his attorneys (f-bombs), and called them "stupid." I also saw delusions of grandeur there? Where he, Murray, knew best how to try the case? He was angry at Alvarez, too (I don't think Alvarez did anything wrong). His anger would flare so QUICKLY!

Autumn now that you guys have mentioned the anger, do you remember that back in 09 some were saying that they thought that Muarry realized that Michael would not sign his contract and in a fit of anger overdosed him. At that time some was saying he looked like someone with a anger problem, and now after you guys have looked at the footage, you are noticing that trait. I agree with you in that there most have been much more that Muarry did to Michael that we would never know about. Maybe that is a good thing because how much sadness can we take.

Romona since forever, Michael's room was off limits. He has always been a very private person, so what bad thing was he supposed to be doing in his room: eating people, smuggling. I guess you can make anything look sinister the same way you can get a witness like White to say what you want him to say.

 

[Autumn II]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

Yeah, but what struck me the most was Murray's ANGER. Horrible, horrible temper. I didn't totally expect that. I just hope he didn't treat Michael that way. . . . . . He was angry at EVERYONE -- his attorneys, the witnesses, Alvarez, AEG, and everyone. Oh, and where did THAT audio tape come from? They played another one, of Michael experiencing the effects of the drugs Murray was giving him, and slurring. NOT the one played in court, but something else. (unless it was part of that same audio? But then, why not play all of it in court? Might have been taped on a different occasion? Horrible. . . . he was taping those for the documentary! Wow, that's bad.)

 

[Kingofpop4ever3000]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

:busted: are Randy Philips and Conrad Murray good pals? unless Randy was a idiot or he and Conrad Murray were very very close, I can't think any reason he would say those disrespectful things to Michael Jackson's personal doctor, when he knew it could go directly into Michael's ears.
.

Personally, I don't think that those two guys were so friendly, especially since Philips testimony didn't support Murray during his trial. And wasn't there an article that came out either in late 2009 or last year that said that Murray was complaining that AEG didn't pay him for being Michael's doctor and he was going to sue or something like that? And didn't they issue a statement telling him to get lost with that claim? I might be wrong. This is all just my opinion.

 

[Autumn II]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

Autumn now that you guys have mentioned the anger, do you remember that back in 09 some were saying that they thought that Muarry realized that Michael would not sign his contract and in a fit of anger overdosed him. At that time some was saying he looked like someone with a anger problem, and now after you guys have looked at the footage, you are noticing that trait. I agree with you in that there most have been much more that Muarry did to Michael that we would never know about. Maybe that is a good thing because how much sadness can we take.

None of us know what really happened, and for me this was a significant piece of the puzzle. Yes, I remember that, that it was speculated that Michael refused to sign the contract, and fired Murray, and Murray retaliated. At that time, we had seen little of Murray, and had no way to know if that was possible. (I mean, think about it? All we had was the cheesy video he made, and his "church appearance.") NOW? I think it IS possible. He revealed so MUCH anger, and so quickly! His temper would flare, and he'd drop f-bombs, and say people were "stupid." That was the only believable emotion I think I saw from him. The rest looked staged, and fake. But, the ANGER was not fake!

 

[Petrarose]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

Cassie I notice in that blog you posted above, that French has commented on the group of fans who are strangely aligning themselves with Muarry's cause. I have noticed this happening here since the trial began and just saw some of these pro Muarry vs anti MJ posts in the Quincy thread. The thing is that if some can look at this doc and listen to Muarry's statements and believe him, then this may explain why Michael initially believed in Muarry. Muarry has a part of his personality that can be believable or charming when he wants to be.

I always felt that Muarry's defense felt he was guilty, but took the case because they wanted to be connected to "The Michael Jackson" trial. I cannot see how this doc is going to help their client base though, since potential high profile clients would be scared Flan/Chernoff would spill their business to the public. look at what happened to klien's business.

 

[Ramona122003]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

Yeah, but what struck me the most was Murray's ANGER. Horrible, horrible temper. I didn't totally expect that. I just hope he didn't treat Michael that way. . . . . . He was angry at EVERYONE -- his attorneys, the witnesses, Alvarez, AEG, and everyone. Oh, and where did THAT audio tape come from? They played another one, of Michael experiencing the effects of the drugs Murray was giving him, and slurring. NOT the one played in court, but something else. (unless it was part of that same audio? But then, why not play all of it in court? Might have been taped on a different occasion? Horrible. . . . he was taping those for the documentary! Wow, that's bad.)

I was talking about the audio tape shown during the trial. Although, Murray himself seemed to suggest there were more. From the way Murray may it sounds, he had 'accidentally' recording Michael several times. He may of had an entire series, which is disturbing. Maybe he was able to successful erase those except for that one. We will never know.

Personally, I don't think that those two guys were so friendly, especially since Philips testimony didn't support Murray during his trial. And wasn't there an article that came out either in late 2009 or last year that said that Murray was complaining that AEG didn't pay him for being Michael's doctor and he was going to sue or something like that? And didn't they issue a statement telling him to get lost with that claim? I might be wrong. This is all just my opinion.

Trust me, Murray is anything but friendly with Philips. He all but call him a liar on the stand and said it was his fault for Michael becoming stress and putting pressure on him.

Autumn now that you guys have mentioned the anger, do you remember that back in 09 some were saying that they thought that Muarry realized that Michael would not sign his contract and in a fit of anger overdosed him. At that time some was saying he looked like someone with a anger problem, and now after you guys have looked at the footage, you are noticing that trait. I agree with you in that there most have been much more that Muarry did to Michael that we would never know about. Maybe that is a good thing because how much sadness can we take.

Romona since forever, Michael's room was off limits. He has always been a very private person, so what bad thing was he supposed to be doing in his room: eating people, smuggling. I guess you can make anything look sinister the same way you can get a witness like White to say what you want him to say.

I know that that Michael's room was off-limits but Murray and his defense seemed to hinted that something was wrong. Now in Chernoff's cause he suggested that Michael could had been taking something behind Murray's back, while Flan all but called him a pig and could had been doing something forbidding. If I had to guess, it almost sounds like he was suggesting that Michael was maybe messing with his kids, especially since Murray specially said that the kids only went in with their father, never by themselves.

You have to see it in context to see what I mean.

 

[Petrarose]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

^^Romana I am glad they did not verbalize what they were insinuating because lawsuits would really be flying, since the Jacksons are motivated by money. If this is true about the kids not being allowed there, it means Michael did not want them digging around in his things. If he wanted to mess with them, he did not have to take them to his room. This was a large house and he could do it in another room. This tells you what type of people they are to come up with these types of ideas, because I never thought of that until you explained it. It takes a dirty mind to think these dirty thoughts.

 

[Ramona122003]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

^^Romana I am glad they did not verbalize what they were insinuating because lawsuits would really be flying, since the Jacksons are motivated by money. If this is true about the kids not being allowed there, it means Michael did not want them digging around in his things. If he wanted to mess with them, he did not have to take them to his room. This was a large house and he could do it in another room. This tells you what type of people they are to come up with these types of ideas, because I never thought of that until you explained it. It takes a dirty mind to think these dirty thoughts.

I honestly believe they would had made such a suggesting in open court if Chernoff didn't call Flan all but stupid for calling Michael weird. Flan seemed to have wanted to play with the jury's worst fears of Michael and maybe plant the idea it was good that Michael was dead. Chernoff, to his credit, did have some respect for Michael and refused to go there.

Really, Chernoff was the only one who came out sympathetic in this doc. Even though he was a jackass in court, he can't help but to feel sorry for him. He seemed to realized that they were screwed when the doctors, specially Shafer, were called. He also hated Flan's cross since he tended to make things worst.

 

[ivy]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

Honestly, I will never understand why he didn't hide that bag himself. If theories are to believe, he got rid of that propofol IV, but didn't think to get rid of the bag and the bottle himself? I didn't really believe AA's story just because I didn't believe Murray would be that stupid to have the bodyguard help him hide evident. I guess we can all be thankful that Murray was an all and all moron.

after listening all the testimony and these interviews / documentary this is what I believe

I think that Murray was somewhat telling the truth that Michael wasn't able to sleep that night and Murray tried to use Lorazepam instead of Propofol and gave Michael a lot more Lorazepam then he said. Edited to add: I think the June 19 sickness of Michael was due to effects of Propofol and Murray knowing it started to change the medicines around before Michael's death.

I believe like as he said he gave Michael Propofol later after Michael said he would cancel the rehearsal and wanted to sleep. . Like Shafer suggested and Steinberg argued I believe he gave Michael Propofol around 9 AM and put him on a drip. By that time he was working for 8 hours to get Michael to sleep and he was probably exhausted and annoyed. He left Michael on drip sleeping and went to next room to perhaps take a nap and /or talk email etc. I think Michael died during that time as the doctors suggested. His breathing stopped and then his heart.

I think Murray was coming into the room to change Propofol and put a new bottle to the drip (I think the goal was to get Michael to sleep a long time). He realized Michael wasn't breathing and did the first thing to stop the Propofol drip - easiest way pulled the line. It might have been even fallen to the floor. He tried to revive Michael probably by giving Flumanezil and doing the leg lift etc as he said - but Michael was dead and during this moving etc the beads left an impression. As a doctor he soon realized he was long gone (hence his odd comment in the interview "how the experts know he was not long dead").

He knew that paramedics / doctors as trained people would able to tell Michael wasn't "just down" and long dead (and they did) so he didn't really have time to waste and started to call MAW or run downstairs to Kai Chase. He came up with "I came into the room and just found him like this" theory. If police never investigated this , they wouldn't found Sade Anding and think that Murray realized michael was dead during his talk with her. When Alberto came to the room and he was about to call the paramedics , he probably realized that if paramedics came to the room and saw the setup they would be able to identify a drip. that's why he stopped Alberto and turned into collecting items and the drip. (That's an emergency situation and I don't think he planned this , so he was making decisions as he went along and not perfectly planned)

The rest was a show for everyone involved Alberto, paramedics , UCLA doctors. It was just to say that "we tried hard". As paramedics was taking Michael down , Murray was still collecting up the items - 3 vials Blount saw wasn't there when CSI was in the room and like Walgren said Murray might have picked up the IV line and put it in his pocket - it would be impossible to prove a drip without a line. and I said it multiple times we all know that people will take the murder weapon from the scene and destroy it. If IV was the cause of death here, it's only logical to think that murray took the murder weapon with him. This is very similar to like a murderer taking the gun and throwing it away in ocean. I also think that he had every intention to go back and get the rest of the items.

He played Alberto as well. Alberto is a layman, a bodyguard, didn't know anything about medical stuff and was already shocked to see Michael dead. Murray approached him at the hospital to do thank you and we did our best line. That was to deceive Alberto to believe that they did everything they are supposed to do and it just wasn't enough. Alberto wouldn't think that anything significant happened or suspect Murray and wouldn't mention it. (until the moment he saw the bags on TV and he went wait a minute I touched that)

He tried to play Michael Amir and Faheem as well with that cream line but I think from their testimony and characters , they seem to be more street smart. Alberto seems to be more naive and not suspecting. Also in one of the interviews I believe Murray said he had the reign over the house and staff.

I also think that TMZ was kinda right in their interpretation of Murray's police interview. Murray knew that what they would find in Michael's system and he thought that his medical bags was discovered. At that time police was clueless so he planned to get ahead the story and take advantage of police's lack of information. He gave them a story that would include the items in Michael's system. Media was running with the theory of an Demerol OD. Murray used that to blame other doctors and portray an addict.

He hoped that the police would see this as not an homicide and they would find the drugs in Michael's system in therapeutic ranges (even technically Propofol was in that range) and this would go away as cardiac arrest.

I believe when tox results came back and even if it was in therapeutic range , coroner's office said "wait but this is not a surgery room , it's a home" and they asked an expert and when that person said IV location wasn't an easy location and they had found all those bottles they came to the most simplest and logical conclusion : a lot more Propofol then 25 mg + home setting + a lot of propofol bottles in the house + IV is not an easy /convenient location = Murray gave him more propofol. and then as they investigated more (probably actual investigation didn't start after the tox results) , they found more and more of Murray's lies and inconsistencies.

 

[loveforever]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

^ try to find some truth in Murray's words? Mission impossible. I don't believe one bit that Murray work all night to try to make Michael sleep based on his phone records. As mr walgren said when Michael was "complaining" &"begging" murray was testing, emailing and socializing. that means michael was actually asleep/ in sedation during Murray's phone activities.

 

[ivy]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

^ try to find some truth in Murray's words? Mission impossible.

not only murray's words but everything we heard.

 

[Ramona122003]

Re: MSNBC to air Murray Documentary "Michael Jackson and the Doctor" / Interview part 1 transcript @

after listening all the testimony and these interviews / documentary this is what I believe

I think that Murray was somewhat telling the truth that Michael wasn't able to sleep that night and Murray tried to use Lorazepam instead of Propofol and gave Michael a lot more Lorazepam then he said. Edited to add: I think the June 19 sickness of Michael was due to effects of Propofol and Murray knowing it started to change the medicines around before Michael's death.

I believe like as he said he gave Michael Propofol later after Michael said he would cancel the rehearsal and wanted to sleep. . Like Shafer suggested and Steinberg argued I believe he gave Michael Propofol around 9 AM and put him on a drip. By that time he was working for 8 hours to get Michael to sleep and he was probably exhausted and annoyed. He left Michael on drip sleeping and went to next room to perhaps take a nap and /or talk email etc. I think Michael died during that time as the doctors suggested. His breathing stopped and then his heart.

I think Murray was coming into the room to change Propofol and put a new bottle to the drip (I think the goal was to get Michael to sleep a long time). He realized Michael wasn't breathing and did the first thing to stop the Propofol drip - easiest way pulled the line. It might have been even fallen to the floor. He tried to revive Michael probably by giving Flumanezil and doing the leg lift etc as he said - but Michael was dead and during this moving etc the beads left an impression. As a doctor he soon realized he was long gone (hence his odd comment in the interview "how the experts know he was not long dead").

He knew that paramedics / doctors as trained people would able to tell Michael wasn't "just down" and long dead (and they did) so he didn't really have time to waste and started to call MAW or run downstairs to Kai Chase. He came up with "I came into the room and just found him like this" theory. If police never investigated this , they wouldn't found Sade Anding and think that Murray realized michael was dead during his talk with her. When Alberto came to the room and he was about to call the paramedics , he probably realized that if paramedics came to the room and saw the setup they would be able to identify a drip. that's why he stopped Alberto and turned into collecting items and the drip. (That's an emergency situation and I don't think he planned this , so he was making decisions as he went along and not perfectly planned)

The rest was a show for everyone involved Alberto, paramedics , UCLA doctors. It was just to say that "we tried hard". As paramedics was taking Michael down , Murray was still collecting up the items - 3 vials Blount saw wasn't there when CSI was in the room and like Walgren said Murray might have picked up the IV line and put it in his pocket - it would be impossible to prove a drip without a line. and I said it multiple times we all know that people will take the murder weapon from the scene and destroy it. If IV was the cause of death here, it's only logical to think that murray took the murder weapon with him. This is very similar to like a murderer taking the gun and throwing it away in ocean. I also think that he had every intention to go back and get the rest of the items.

He played Alberto as well. Alberto is a layman, a bodyguard, didn't know anything about medical stuff and was already shocked to see Michael dead. Murray approached him at the hospital to do thank you and we did our best line. That was to deceive Alberto to believe that they did everything they are supposed to do and it just wasn't enough. Alberto wouldn't think that anything significant happened or suspect Murray and wouldn't mention it. (until the moment he saw the bags on TV and he went wait a minute I touched that)

He tried to play Michael Amir and Faheem as well with that cream line but I think from their testimony and characters , they seem to be more street smart. Alberto seems to be more naive and not suspecting. Also in one of the interviews I believe Murray said he had the reign over the house and staff.

I also think that TMZ was kinda right in their interpretation of Murray's police interview. Murray knew that what they would find in Michael's system and he thought that his medical bags was discovered. At that time police was clueless so he planned to get ahead the story and take advantage of police's lack of information. He gave them a story that would include the items in Michael's system. Media was running with the theory of an Demerol OD. Murray used that to blame other doctors and portray an addict.

He hoped that the police would see this as not an homicide and they would find the drugs in Michael's system in therapeutic ranges (even technically Propofol was in that range) and this would go away as cardiac arrest.

I believe when tox results came back and even if it was in therapeutic range , coroner's office said "wait but this is not a surgery room , it's a home" and they asked an expert and when that person said IV location wasn't an easy location and they had found all those bottles they came to the most simplest and logical conclusion : a lot more Propofol then 25 mg + home setting + a lot of propofol bottles in the house + IV is not an easy /convenient location = Murray gave him more propofol. and then as they investigated more (probably actual investigation didn't start after the tox results) , they found more and more of Murray's lies and inconsistencies.

I agree with most of this, but I can't imagine Michael taking all that Lopz and still being fine enough to demand or ask for propofol. I also think Michael may not had been so open to taking Lopz if he was withdrawing from it on the 19 all the way through the 21.