CherubimII
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Re: Prelim tomorrow-All discussion here
I do wonder who is paying for Murray's defense.
I do wonder who is paying for Murray's defense.
well don't they insist that Murray didn't give more than 25 milligrams and nothing that he gave should kill Michael? Also add that Michael self injected?
hard to say how (as I have little to none medical info) but perhaps they can argue this somehow based on the numbers? or nothing will come out of it.
the level of propofol does matter IMO. because it's not a controlled drug and it's not illegal to use it out of hospital setting (of course not recommended for outside use or it's not intended for insomnia but not illegal as well).
so whether he was given a normal amount or an overdose changes a lot of things.
That quote by Chernoff is ridiculous in itself because no physician can accurately predict that the combination of benzos plus propofol given to michael would not have caused a respiratory arrest - in fact it would be the FIRST adverse effect that any doctor with a brain in their head would be worried about, and therefore appropriately plan for, if they were reckless enough to administer it all - which of course Murray was. You wouldn't even think of giving all that in a hospital setting without full airway/ventilatory back up so to do it in a home setting without the right equipment is pure Russian roulette and incomprehensible and I fully expect their claim of "not giving anything that should have killed him" to be strongly challenged by prosecution medics if/when the trial gets underway.
There is NO 'normal' amount of this drug outside a hospital setting particularly if resus equipment is absent because you can't predict how your patient is going to respond to it. And they can point the finger at AEG and anyone else as much as they want - it was Murray's responsibility alone to make sure he was adequately prepared to administer those drugs.
Why does Murray need fluids from MJs body, there were 2 autopsies done that state how much Propofol was in MJs body.
I don't believe they are asking fluids from his body
"three fluids collected by the coroner's office, including ones taken from syringes and an IV tube to re-examine test results"
2 out of 3 fluids come from syringe and the IV tube.
Therefore I think their argument is not about the autopsy results but about what was given to MJ.
Someone with medical understanding could explain further I hope.
Attorney J. Michael Flanagan said the samples were obtained from two syringes and an IV, but he did not elaborate.
Sadly true - And they will have to explain why he didn't use medical equipment usefull for this kind of treatment.-
I agree with the lot of you here..it doesn't matter what the results are in the retesting of those levels...Michael was overdosed with propofol...it doesn't matter the numbers...Michael is still gone....unless Murray has something else to add to his story that will point the finger at a particluar person...then the defense is full of shit...and they are just buying time.
btw as I was reading the news it seems like there's inconsistency what the media reports.
TMZ says that the judge granted the request for the fluid samples.
Dr. Conrad Murray's legal team was just granted a request to get fluid samples of Michael Jackson as part of their defense in his involuntary manslaughter trial.
however this is from MTV
Murray's defense team reportedly asked for access to three fluids collected by the coroner's office, including ones taken from syringes and an IV tube to re-examine test results. Pastor ruled that the coroner's office must preserve the samples, and if defense attorneys and prosecutors cannot agree on the request, he will schedule a hearing on the matter.
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1646329/20100823/jackson_michael.jhtml
and this is from radar online
Judge Pastor granted a protective order regarding all discovery in the criminal case. The material cannot be released to anyone other than the lawyers, paralegals and investigators. "I expect this case is going to go to prelim on January 4th, 2011," Judge Pastor said.
Dr. Murray's legal team also wants access to three fluids that the coroner's office has for Michael Jackson. The lawyers want to re-examine some test results, including those from syringes and an IV Tube. The D.A. has issues with the request because of chain of custody issues and preserving the integrity of the samples.
Judge Pastor wants the two sides to come to an agreement about the request, and if they can't, there will be a hearing. Judge Pastor ruled that the coroner's office must preserve the samples.
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusiv...eliminary-hearing-set-discovery-given-defense
according to these 2 reports it doesn't seem definitive that they'll get the samples.
I don't believe they are asking fluids from his body
"three fluids collected by the coroner's office, including ones taken from syringes and an IV tube to re-examine test results"
2 out of 3 fluids come from syringe and the IV tube.
Therefore I think their argument is not about the autopsy results but about what was given to MJ.
Someone with medical understanding could explain further I hope.
Let me ask a question. The deffense won't have to go to FL and disturb Michael's body to get fluids right? All that is saved somewhere? Honest to god this is getting ridiculous and I want Michael to be left alone.
By the way one of my friends was there today, and she said the fights ALMOST got physical. It was very nasty and the cops were dumbfounded about it. You can thank Karen for turning fans against one another. In 2005, this wasn't happening. Now it is. Sad. People need to support Michael and leave their online fights ONLINE. What a mess and embarassment.
By the way one of my friends was there today, and she said the fights ALMOST got physical. It was very nasty and the cops were dumbfounded about it. You can thank Karen for turning fans against one another. In 2005, this wasn't happening. Now it is. Sad. People need to support Michael and leave their online fights ONLINE. What a mess and embarassment.
I don't think Michael's body will be disturbed, the Coroner should have all the samples needed.Let me ask a question. The deffense won't have to go to FL and disturb Michael's body to get fluids right? All that is saved somewhere? Honest to god this is getting ridiculous and I want Michael to be left alone.
By the way one of my friends was there today, and she said the fights ALMOST got physical. It was very nasty and the cops were dumbfounded about it. You can thank Karen for turning fans against one another. In 2005, this wasn't happening. Now it is. Sad. People need to support Michael and leave their online fights ONLINE. What a mess and embarassment.
Prosecutor David Walgren sought more information about the tests and whether the samples might be destroyed.
Does anyone else feel like they are bashing their heads against a brick wall??
The judge apparently said that the prelim hearing would be pushed to Jan 4, 2011 because of the availability of witnesses.
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=11463412
WTF?!
Are the witnesses booked out for 4 months straight???? Are they sooooo busy that they cant turn up to court for some weeks out of a whole 4 months????
I assume that Murrays girlfriend is a witness. Is she sooo busy stripping that she cant come to court until next year???!!
If the witnesses are avoiding turning up, then why don’t they get subpoenaed!!????
This is a criminal case and witnesses are having trouble turning up!???
This is B.S.
Just to remind us of what we share, no matter where we stand:
Michael was ruthlessly exploited by the entertainment industry.
Michael was relentlessly tortured by the media.
Michael was innocent, yet he went through a humiliating trial based on false allegations.
Michael had financial woes that need to be permanently resolved at the exclusive and primary benefit of his beneficiaries.
Michael left us a colossal legacy that needs to be preserved and promoted for the generations to come.
It's crazy isn't it?At this rate, Murray will be 90 years old before a trial begins. They already set a date in June, to set a date in August, to set a date in October. WTF?
If the witnesses are avoiding turning up, then why don’t they get subpoenaed!!????
This is a criminal case and witnesses are having trouble turning up!???
This is B.S.
subpoena's are sent by the court for the trial. generally they cannot be used for pre -trial interviews done by the prosecution.
That's exactly my concern. Never heard of a court in the entire world being dragged from delay to delay according to the witnesse's schedules.
It's extremely sad that fans turn against each other, especially when they're out in the public eye. It discredits the entire fanbase. To my understanding, this is being manipulated by those who actually divide and conquer to keep fans controlled.
It's the best way to control a huge crowd that would otherwise be powerful.
Sadly, we have come down to:
-your either pro-estate or pro-family
-you are either boycotting Sony or you're a selfish "I want more from MJ and I don't care about the label" fan
-if you're a believer, Murray is innocent, nobody is to blame. Too painful for other fans to handle.
-if you're a conspiracy theorist, you're a crazed lunatic to those who believe Michael's death was an accident with only Murray to blame. Or even Michael himself for being an addict.
Somebody is actually feeding all these arguments for a good reason and makes sure they are kept alive and going. If fans could put these aside and focus on what's uniting them, they would form a considerable, "dangerous" force of justice that certainly could not be ignored.
Just to remind us of what we share, no matter where we stand:
Michael was ruthlessly exploited by the entertainment industry.
Michael was relentlessly tortured by the media.
Michael was innocent, yet he went through a humiliating trial based on false allegations.
Michael had financial woes that need to be permanently resolved at the exclusive and primary benefit of his beneficiaries.
Michael left us a colossal legacy that needs to be preserved and promoted for the generations to come.