Coroners Report released - GRAPHIC CONTENT (Threads merged)

Someone asked whose side I am on. I am a Michael Jackson fan and loved Michael very much and I have also said numerous times that I believe he was a human being and I accepted him with any flaws I may have seen because the good far outweighed any bad I ever saw. I will attempt to medically explain what I see in Dangerous' post below.

Inconsistencies in the autopsy report

- Page 1 states the body’s face is unshaven. Page 8 states that “a mustache and beard are absent.”

- The body was in a hospital gown. Why would they stop resuscitative efforts to change his clothes into a hospital gown ? Everyone very much doubts he wasn’t wearing any bottoms or undies when he was put under. And he would obviously not be wearing a hospital gown either originally.

This was talked about pages back. The hospital gown statements were made after he was in the hospital. Any bottoms would have had to be taken off in the ER when they inserted lines threaded up to the heart or arteries. We don't know if he was wearing anything in the house.

- The report states his teeth are all natural. Then, they however proceed to describe ceramic and metallic alteration/restoration and endosseal implants which is a metal wire implanted to support an ARTIFICIAL tooth. The implants are 'caps' attached to bone. By artificial they mean teeth that remove, such as bridges and plates.

- The report states MJ was not found in his usual bedroom, down the hall, but in another one, on top of the stairs. Reports from Murray’s lawyer and other sources are inconsistent when it comes to where MJ was found.

- The report claims MJ’s body was identified using his driver’s license. It would state Michael JOE Jackson. Also, the paramedics claimed that he looked so unlike himself that they took a while recognising him. There is no mention of LaToya IDing the body.

To be honest, I never heard the paramedics interview. The only thing we heard was second hand from TMZ or other sources. I have no idea if that is true.

- The coroner staff took hair samples for toxicology in August, after 2 autopsies were already completed. —> Why ? As hair provides a more accurate timeline of all drug use across the course of the hair’s growth (stringent drug tests use hair rather than urine), one would think it would be habitual and almost mandatory to take hair samples in toxicology cases.

They likely didn't realize the full scope of the importance of this until after the tox came back. It was only at that time they realized they needed further proof of past history. What they found in the basic tox was not enough evidence.

- The toxicology screen did not find the Flumazenil administered by Murray. However, they found it in the IV system and a 10cc syringe, along with the Propofol and Lidocaine. There were no drugs found in the upper portion of the IV tubing or in the IV bag. –> was Murray re-using needles ? How much Propofol did he inject into the IV bolus ? Why was the fluid in the syringe white, while the fluid in the IV was yellow, though they both contained the same drugs and the IV fluid was clear ?

I believe the upper portion and the IV bag were not used for anything as it was just fluid. It is possible Murray was reusing SYRYINGES and possibly needles but he didn't inject into the patient. Just the tubings. I have yet to figure out what the yellow drug is. I can not figure that out. Only certain drugs are yellow, or vitamin mixtures; certain antibiotics. I can't figure out what 'yellow' drug was used.

- The toxicology screen did not find the epinephrine or atropine said to be administered by paramedics during resuscitative efforts.

Here is something I tried to explain to Soundmind but everyone thinks I am on Murrays side. I said ALL DRUGS WERE NOT TESTED. Thats what I said. We don't have the results. It is not that they didn't find these drugs...they were NOT ON THE TOX.

- The toxicology screen did find ephedrine, but there is no report of where or how it was administered. It was found only in his urine, which would mean that it had enough time to be filtered by the liver.

Ephedrine could have been taken at any time. It is even found in some sports drinks from out of the country.

- The autopsy report states that Murray found MJ not breathing at around noon. —> The search warrant timeline claims that Murray found him at around 10.52 AM. Weird considering that that specific info was most likely given to the coroner by detectives on the case.

The timeline I won't even comment on.

- The report states that MJ called Murray to his house at 1AM and MJ slept several hours at his side –> The search warrant indicates that Murray kept administering all those drugs because MJ could NOT fall asleep.

- Somehow, Murray managed to perform CPR with enough force to fracture ribs but there was no recorded bruise on MJ’s back which should have been present had he put his hand at his back to “harden” the surface, as stated by his legal team. Also, the report states Murray performed CPR on the ground when it was clear it was performed on a bed (the 911 dispatcher orders Alvarez to put MJ on the ground, yet Alvarez never relays the info to the doctor). This is a key element to proving Murray’s gross negligence and incompetence as CPR is a basic for any doctor, especially a cardiologist.

In all fairness, the CPR was done by several people so it is hard to say when the ribs were broken.

Oh God, he’s taking Propofol… Or is he ?

- The report indicates the presence of benzodiazepines, which are a contributory factor the death, as mixing Propofol with benzos is deadly. It takes exactly 15 seconds for any simpleton to find that info on the Internet – do a Wikipedia search on Propofol, they clearly state that Propofol and benzos should never be mixed together. Hard to believe Murray would be THAT stupid and ignorant on that clear contraindication.
I’m also finding it hard to believe that they would rule that death as an “acute Propofol intoxication”. I searched precedents of drug abuse and found some cases : all of them were results of a self-administered injection which too rapid and then, not monitored leading to cardiac arrest. All those deaths were declared as such – no technical overdose on the product. Also, several doctors have come out saying that the dosage was standard, some even going as far as saying that it was not sufficient to put him efficiently to sleep for a sufficient period of time.

Someone already said that Benzos are given with Propofol. Maybe not in Wikipedia world, but in truth, they are.

- The report states that Propofol was found in stomach contents. How is that even possible ? I believe Propofol crosses the barriers, and also, there was blood in the stomach from what I understood.
Propofol is an intravenous drug EXCLUSIVELY. The only way for it to be found in the stomach would be that one had taken it orally, had drunk it. Obviously, there’s no doubt that MJ didn’t drink the substance. Now, say he had drunk the substance. It would still have to be metabolised, which can’t happen if he’s dead. There wouldn’t have been enough time anyway, according to the search warrant timeline, for that to happen.

- Speaking of some time confusions… The AR states that Murray was called by MJ at his house at 1AM ; the search warrant more or less corroborates that since it states that Murray gave MJ his first injections at 1.30 AM. However, fan testimonies from the This Is Not It website (as well as some other reports from MJ’s entourage) place MJ going out the Staples Centre at 1.30 AM. That means MJ would be home at around 2 in the morning (it takes around 30 minutes without circulation to go from the Staples Center to his Carolwood home) – say Murray gets there at the same time. At the earliest, MJ’s first injections would have taken place at 2.10-15 AM when everything was set up.
It would have taken for the police a simple interrogation of MJ’s entourage to clear that up.
Speaking of the timeline, the search warrant itself shows something extremely strange. It states that Murray found MJ not breathing at 10.52 AM yet also that Murray placed three calls between 11.18 and 12.05 AM… in the midst of the chaos, seriously ? Though Murray’s lawyer said the timeline was flawed and Murray found MJ unconscious at 11.50 something, he still placed those calls AFTERWARDS. And the police didn’t find that suspicious… even malicious ? With all this crucial info (the benzo mix, the CPR on the bed, the timeline contradictions), it would have taken since Murray’s interrogation + the autopsy report completion to book Murray. Seriously. The judge didn’t even prohibit him from practising medicine when all goes to prove he was negligent, incompetent and even malevolent (placing phone calls while MJ was dying).
The timeline again. According to Murrays lawyer on August 26th or around there, he said the timeline was wrong. Now its in the news again. I am going to say that somewhere along the line, the time line can has not been accurately reported.
 
timeline according to media reports


At 11:18am he called his Las Vegas office for 32 minutes

at 11:49am he called another Las Vegas phone for 3 minutes (The answer machine message)

at 11:51am he phoned somebody in Houston for 11 minutes. (his GF)

at 12:05 pm he called MJ's assistant.

at 12: 21 pm paramedics were called

I have what is probably a really dumb blonde question because I thought of something and don't know the answer myself.

These calls (some of them) were in a different time zone. Where did they get the times from? Do they come from the phone that was used? I'm just trying to figure out how the heck this all got so confusing in the first place and why there is such an issue, besides the obvious 'he lied', which of course he did, but I am trying to piece together a time line here.

Does anyone understand how those times work on phones?
 
And I have to say this. I've been a Critical Care nurse since 1974. Remaining neutral and just reading things, I've never seen Beachlover give any medical info that isn't spot on in the medical milieu. We all come to our own conclusions with the interpretation of events, though. I don't post many times because my interpretation may or may not sit well with certain theories or beliefs at times, bottom line.

I really appreciate your saying that. I think that what happens here is that I often come along and dispute evidence, NOT for the sake of defending Murray, but for the sake of saying "This is wrong information."

I don't understand everything that happened that horrible day because I was not there. I don't assume to know what Murray was thinking, or what Michael was thinking. What I also don't do is allow any angry feelings cloud my judgement either way. Many come into this thread and state their theories of what they 'think' Michael or Murray was thinking. You know what? We don't know.

How can we say that Michael didn't want Murray to go to London and he didn't sign the contract so that means he didn't want him? Well, what does that look like logically when you ask yourself why would someone who doesn't trust someone allow them to put them under in a most vulnerable position? To me thats just not credible.

I would go for the "Murray murdered him" theory except that there are too many things that point to the theory that he screwed up and tried to cover up after the fact. If he did this on purpose he could have covered up so much more. He could have been a much more efficient killer and would not have been so stupid to be on his phone that day.

But that is just how my mind thinks. To say that I am giving Murray excuses is not true at all, but when something is medically wrong with a theory, then that theory is wrong. Period.

Many of you just get mad at me because you want to blame Murray and you want everyone to hate him. I don't hate anyone. I am not happy this happened, but I don't hate. He screwed up and he should pay for this because it was definitely wrong what he did.
 
I may be reprimanded for saying this. Mod hate off, member hate on. Report my post its cool, but I have something to say and I have been holding back for very long time.


I get that there are folks here that may have some knowledge in the medical field, but I don't know cause really I don't know you. You say you are a nurse for umpten years, I can speak big words too.

It's like this you can explain everything away all day long. The fact is, there are too many unknown factors. To many inconsistency. To many lies. To sit here and rationalize all of Murray actions is unreal. There is no rationalization to it. Why is it so important to point all that all drugs were not tested. Of course all drugs were not tested. No need to test all the drugs. So what is it that you are trying to say hear, our what seed are you trying to plant.
Please, we hear you, we have no choice to. It doesn't have to be forced. This big bold red letters was not necessary. I personally don't want to read what you have to say. So please don't force it on me or other members. We already hear you loud and clear.

Mod hat back on
 
I may be reprimanded for saying this. Mod hate off, member hate on. Report my post its cool, but I have something to say and I have been holding back for very long time.

I get that there are folks here that may have some knowledge in the medical field, but I don't know cause really I don't know you. You say you are a nurse for umpten years, I can speak big words too.

It's like this you can explain everything away all day long. The fact is, there are too many unknown factors. To many inconsistency. To many lies. To sit here and rationalize all of Murray actions is unreal. There is no rationalization to it. Why is it so important to point all that all drugs were not tested. Of course all drugs were not tested. No need to test all the drugs. So what is it that you are trying to say hear, our what seed are you trying to plant.
Please, we hear you, we have no choice to. It doesn't have to be forced. This big bold red letters was not necessary. I personally don't want to read what you have to say. So please don't force it on me or other members. We already hear you loud and clear.

Mod hat back on

The bold was because it was mentioned in several posts and then in one post I was accused of being bascially stupid and not knowing what I was talking about. We were given a great list of the drugs that were found but it is not complete.

There are many other tests we don't have. I said in one post that not all the drugs were listed on the autopsy. I have no doubt they tested for these things. They did a lot of tests they didn't give us the results for.

I agree. There are too many things we don't know. There are too many people that were interviewd and we don't know what was found. We only have the limited information they allowed to leak out. My feeling is that the prosecution would not want to give away their whole case and thats only fair. Why should they let the defense know what they have? They should not.

There is nothing wrong with your post at all. You are very right. There have been many things that were done that were covered up and this is the reason he is charged with a crime. There is no excuse for doing something like that and in the end he will not be able to explain all that covering up away.
 
I have what is probably a really dumb blonde question because I thought of something and don't know the answer myself.

These calls (some of them) were in a different time zone. Where did they get the times from? Do they come from the phone that was used? I'm just trying to figure out how the heck this all got so confusing in the first place and why there is such an issue, besides the obvious 'he lied', which of course he did, but I am trying to piece together a time line here.

Does anyone understand how those times work on phones?

Murray's call records...just because he may of called different time zones...HIS phone would still have current time....only the person he is calling would have a different time.
 
Murray's call records...just because he may of called different time zones...HIS phone would still have current time....only the person he is calling would have a different time.

Thank you. I thought that would be true but I rarely call out of state or pay attention to the actual times on the calls.
 
here is my tidbits. The prosecution will have to turn over their "evidence" to the defence as it gets closer to trail. It's called called "discovery".
 
I have a question about what the dancer said maybe someone else can make sense of it...her is what he said about the reheasal time..

In fact, on June 24, the last day of Jackson's life, director Kenny Ortega staged the show and "we ran through the whole thing and finished at about 1:30 in the morning," Celebre, a dancer based in Toronto, recalled in an interview yesterday at the midtown BDX dance studio.


]B]ok My question is this...if rehearsals ended at 1:30am......then in the witness statement HOW can it say that Michael called Murray at 1:00am and said he was dehydrated and didnt feel well??...also how could the security camera's get Murray entering the house at 1am.....did I miss something here??[/B]

edit...sorry guys maybe this question is in the wrong thread...this is just where it hit me in the head so this is where I dropped it...


yea I have always wondered exactly when Michael left the staples and made it to his home..at what time? was it that he left at 12:30 AM or 1:30 AM... when did Michael get to his home that night of June 24th/25th? When did Murray get there to Michael's home that night/early morning AM hours? I've heard different people that were at staples June 24th and talked about what time the rehersals at staples ended and when they saw Michael leaving for home.. There was even someone who said they talked to Michael when Michael was outside getting into his car to leave for his home..??

?? Are There any facts as to when Michael left staples and made it to his home the night of June 24th?
 
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Everyone should keep in mind that the Jackson family had a 2nd autopsy done. So what is written in this released autopsy isnt necessarily the gospel. The Jacksons copy may be have different findings.
 
I may be reprimanded for saying this. Mod hate off, member hate on. Report my post its cool, but I have something to say and I have been holding back for very long time.


I get that there are folks here that may have some knowledge in the medical field, but I don't know cause really I don't know you. You say you are a nurse for umpten years, I can speak big words too.

It's like this you can explain everything away all day long. The fact is, there are too many unknown factors. To many inconsistency. To many lies. To sit here and rationalize all of Murray actions is unreal. There is no rationalization to it. Why is it so important to point all that all drugs were not tested. Of course all drugs were not tested. No need to test all the drugs. So what is it that you are trying to say hear, our what seed are you trying to plant.
Please, we hear you, we have no choice to. It doesn't have to be forced. This big bold red letters was not necessary. I personally don't want to read what you have to say. So please don't force it on me or other members. We already hear you loud and clear.

Mod hat back on
Thank you!! Meena76 for calling out what it is, despite being a mod.
 
yea I have always wondered exactly when Michael left the staples and made it to his home..at what time? was it that he left at 12:30 AM or 1:30 AM... when did Michael get to his home that night of June 24th/25th? When did Murray get there to Michael's home that night/early morning AM hours? I've heard different people that were at staples June 24th and talked about what time the rehersals at staples ended and when they saw Michael leaving for home.. There was even someone who said they talked to Michael when Michael was outside getting into his car to leave for his home..??

since I posted this I had a conversation with one of the follower fans who was there at the house on the early morning hours of the 25th....meaning after midnight around 1or 1:30 am....this ff said that Murray arrived first and then a few minutes later Michael arrived.

Which is why I question the time period that Murray was supposedly called....Murray was there BEFORE Michael on this night....hmmm.
 
Why is:
* Pepsi burn is not mentioned
* The bump on his wrist is not mentioned
* The added cleft to the chin is not mentioned
* Lupus is not mentioned
* 3 different names on the document: Michael Jackson, Michael J. Jackson & Michael Joseph Jackson
* The seals of the coroner are different
* The scars behind the ears show otoplasty, I can't remember him having that kind of surgery
* The blood samples are labeled "Trauma, Gerschwin" instead of "Jackson, Michael"
* After 18 hours the blood in the heart was still liquid
* After 18 hours the body didn't show full Rigor Mortis
 
RESPIRATORY BRONCHIOLITIS is generally caused by smoking but can be found in kids.
 
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since I posted this I had a conversation with one of the follower fans who was there at the house on the early morning hours of the 25th....meaning after midnight around 1or 1:30 am....this ff said that Murray arrived first and then a few minutes later Michael arrived.

Which is why I question the time period that Murray was supposedly called....Murray was there BEFORE Michael on this night....hmmm.

Thank you for posting.. and yeah.. "uhmmmmm.."
 
:)
I read on a US Police Dept's (can't remember which one now) website about toxicology screens. They gave a list of drugs/substances that are routinely screened for. These included benzodiazepines, narcotics, amphetamines, amongst others. Any other drug would not show unless specifically requested, which is why I believe epinephrine and atropine are not mentioned. The propofol would have been requested as a special test.

As for the propofol being found in the stomach.....well I hate to write this but somewhere early in the report they state there is some transmural haemorrhaging of stomach caused by the resuscitation. I think this means there could have been some blood in the stomach contents, and thus propofol was detected in this blood.

I found it weird that lorazepam was not tested for in the urine samples.

true when it comes to meds given by the paramedics and the UCLA doctors (epinephedrine and atropine ), but MUrray was a suspect and they needed to know whether he was telling them the truth , so they had to test for all the drugs he told them he gave that day .so they had tested for flumazenil certainly, we shall see what explanation they have for the lack of flumazenil in his system .

Lorazepam was tested for in the urine but was not detected , was not detected in the liver and not even in peripheral blood , I don't know what that means , but clearly it was a contributing factor .

the autopsy did not say we found other drugs and this is only part of the drugs found , they clearly said this is what was in his system at the time of death .

Ofcourse in his hair , there will be other things and we shall see whether mj was taking propofol daily for six weeks as Murray claimed .

and yes I do believe they did not mention many things that had to do with propofol and the time of death .

For all we know Murray could have been there to treat MJ dehydration and RARELY propofol was given . the DA did not charge Murray with a harsher charge simply because propofol was given rarely , but it won't help Murray's case when he is proven to be a liar , and the jury sees MJ was not the addict he tried to portray him, and he did everything willingly and instead of taking responsibility he tried it to blame the dead victim
 
Everyone should keep in mind that the Jackson family had a 2nd autopsy done. So what is written in this released autopsy isnt necessarily the gospel. The Jacksons copy may be have different findings.

well, what's your issue with this report ? what's the points you are trying to make ?
Do you believe MJ's health was bad or it should have been worse ?

Do you believe there should have been more drugs detected ?

what's wrong with it ?
 
:)

true when it comes to meds given by the paramedics and the UCLA doctors (epinephedrine and atropine ), but MUrray was a suspect and they needed to know whether he was telling them the truth , so they had to test for all the drugs he told them he gave that day .so they had tested for flumazenil certainly, we shall see what explanation they have for the lack of flumazenil in his system .

Lorazepam was tested for in the urine but was not detected , was not detected in the liver and not even in peripheral blood , I don't know what that means , but clearly it was a contributing factor .

the autopsy did not say we found other drugs and this is only part of the drugs found , they clearly said this is what was in his system at the time of death .

Ofcourse in his hair , there will be other things and we shall see whether mj was taking propofol daily for six weeks as Murray claimed .

and yes I do believe they did not mention many things that had to do with propofol and the time of death .

For all we know Murray could have been there to treat MJ dehydration and RARELY propofol was given . the DA did not charge Murray with a harsher charge simply because propofol was given rarely , but it won't help Murray's case when he is proven to be a liar , and the jury sees MJ was not the addict he tried to portray him, and he did everything willingly and instead of taking responsibility he tried it to blame the dead victim

Was lorazepam fully working then at the time when propofol was administered?
 
I just found this story about Murray, sorry, it's from Daily Mail
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...Conrad-Murray-quack-accused-killing-star.html

I know it's a tabloid, but I up to now I didn't have read such a detailed story about Conrad Murray and some stories around the day of Michael's death. Please could someone tell me if everything is true they have said, or what is wrong or right? If this is not allowed to discuss here in please would someone be so kind and send me a PM?
 
well, what's your issue with this report ? what's the points you are trying to make ?
Do you believe MJ's health was bad or it should have been worse ?

Do you believe there should have been more drugs detected ?

what's wrong with it ?

What's wrong with it? There so much missing and odd which I already pointed out before such as:

* Pepsi burn is not mentioned
* The bump on his wrist is not mentioned
* The added cleft to the chin is not mentioned
* Lupus is not mentioned
* 3 different names on the document: Michael Jackson, Michael J. Jackson & Michael Joseph Jackson
* The seals of the coroner are different
* The scars behind the ears show otoplasty, I can't remember him having that kind of surgery
* The blood samples are labeled "Trauma, Gerschwin" instead of "Jackson, Michael"
* After 18 hours the blood in the heart was still liquid
* After 18 hours the body didn't show full Rigor Mortis
 
I may be reprimanded for saying this. Mod hate off, member hate on. Report my post its cool, but I have something to say and I have been holding back for very long time.


I get that there are folks here that may have some knowledge in the medical field, but I don't know cause really I don't know you. You say you are a nurse for umpten years, I can speak big words too.

It's like this you can explain everything away all day long. The fact is, there are too many unknown factors. To many inconsistency. To many lies. To sit here and rationalize all of Murray actions is unreal. There is no rationalization to it. Why is it so important to point all that all drugs were not tested. Of course all drugs were not tested. No need to test all the drugs. So what is it that you are trying to say hear, our what seed are you trying to plant.
Please, we hear you, we have no choice to. It doesn't have to be forced. This big bold red letters was not necessary. I personally don't want to read what you have to say. So please don't force it on me or other members. We already hear you loud and clear.

Mod hat back on

Hi Menna, thanks for your oppinions as a member :)(really appreciate that) , but some of us are indeed expert in the medical field and they would discuss the details to their undertanding. I guess it's all part of their investigations. (Hey there are some medical field educated Michael fans too! lol) I think they put it in red because they think it's the more important points although not everyone will understand it. Most of the science students are very investigative people so I do think it's fine for them to discuss it that way. When investigating, they put aside their personal feelings that it's Michael autopsy report. I don't give explainations to all those autopsy since I don't think I'm expert on all those although I have a research degree in medical and pharmaceutical field and I work in a pathology laboratory. Sorry, if you think I talk big words, but really it's not that we want to show off or anything. We just want to get acknowledgement from you guys so that you know we can be trusted and are not talking some nonsense! lol
 
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what do you want to say ? That AEG killed MJ and they are paying the coroner and the DA ?
 
"The nasal bones are obscured by overlying cranial and facial structures"

What does that mean? (somebody other than Beachlover please!)

I though Beachlover is pretty good with the explainations! lol!
Anyway, it really means nothing much. That part is in the radiology results mean it's just the X-ray films. What they mean is that from the X-ray film, they can't see the scans of the bones that made up the nose because it's covered by other bones of the brain and the face.
Hope that answers your question.
 
What's wrong with it? There so much missing and odd which I already pointed out before such as:

* Pepsi burn is not mentioned On On the pages of the body diagram showing scars and punctures, there is a scar noted on the back of the head where the burn scar would be.
* The bump on his wrist is not mentioned
* The added cleft to the chin is not mentioned I did not see physical features mentioned anywhere actually
* Lupus is not mentioned Lupus is a diagnosis that others have made in the past but not show here as part of any medical findings. The test for Lupus was not done as part of the autopsy. It is an autoimmune disease and not done here.
* 3 different names on the document: Michael Jackson, Michael J. Jackson & Michael Joseph Jackson He is a number 2009-04415.
* The seals of the coroner are different
* The scars behind the ears show otoplasty, I can't remember him having that kind of surgery Where is otoplasty mentioned?
* The blood samples are labeled "Trauma, Gerschwin" instead of "Jackson, Michael" What do you think is suspicious about this?
* After 18 hours the blood in the heart was still liquid
* After 18 hours the body didn't show full Rigor Mortis Wasn't the body in a freezer at that point?

I realize you don't want to hear from me and many here don't want to hear from me but the facts are facts. You can say there is another autopsy and it is different but if you don't post it here we don't know if its different.
 
since I posted this I had a conversation with one of the follower fans who was there at the house on the early morning hours of the 25th....meaning after midnight around 1or 1:30 am....this ff said that Murray arrived first and then a few minutes later Michael arrived.

Which is why I question the time period that Murray was supposedly called....Murray was there BEFORE Michael on this night....hmmm.

Is it at all possible that Michael called from his cell phone at the Staples Center?
 
Is it at all possible that Michael called from his cell phone at the Staples Center?

That he can´t fall asleep?
I would normally expect that he gets home, if not to bed and only then decides he´s got sleeping problems.
 
That he can´t fall asleep?
I would normally expect that he gets home, if not to bed and only then decides he´s got sleeping problems.

So, then you feel there is no way he would call Murray beforehand just to ask him to be present in the house when he arrives?
 
I though Beachlover is pretty good with the explainations! lol!

Thank you. I do this from a scientific approach and really try my absolute best to keep my personal feelings out of it. My personal reason for this is that I do not wish to think of Michael as a corpse laying on a cold slab somewhere and my second reason is that an autopsy is not personal. It is medical. There are no thoughts and feelings in a medical report.

If there is a trial there are a lot of things that can be disputed in this autopsy or any other autopsy. They bring in a medical anesthesiologist specialist; and the other side will do the same.

If it is so easy for us to dispute it, imagine what is going to happen when a professional with credentials who understands forensic science is going to do with these reports? It will make me look sympathetic quite honestly.
 
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