HIStory
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^^ The "eye witnesses" were the Neverland 5 plus Phillip Lemarque and Stella Marcroft, a French couple who were Michael's employees. All were exposed as liars in court.
Those "eye witnesses" said they saw Michael molest boys like Macaulay Culkin, Wade Robson, Brett Barnes. The boys were called to the stand by the defense and testified it never happened. Of course, when they "saw" these alleged molestations happen they just stood by and didn't do a damn thing about it. Actually they only ever came up with such allegations after the Chandler case broke. And they went to tabloids with their stories to get paid for them.
The Neverland 5 were sued by Michael for stealing from him. Michael won that lawsuit and they were ordered to pay him big money. From Ralph Chacon's (one of the Neverland 5) testimony (Kassim Abdool and Adrian McManus were the other two of the Neverland 5 who testified):
23 Q. Okay. We’ll get into that.
24 You sued Mr. Jackson claiming you were
25 wrongfully terminated, right?
26 A. That’s correct, sir.
27 Q. He sued you claiming you had stolen property
28 from him, true? 5202
1 A. That’s correct, sir.
2 Q. The jury found you were not wrongfully
3 terminated by Mr. Jackson, correct?
4 A. But we were, sir.
5 Q. Answer my question, please. Did the Santa
6 Maria jury find you were not wrongfully terminated
7 by Mr. Jackson?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. And they also found you had stolen property
10 from Mr. Jackson, correct?
11 A. But I didn’t, sir.
12 Q. Did the Santa Maria jury find you had stolen
13 property from Mr. Jackson?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. A judgment was entered against you, Mr.
16 Chacon, for $25,000, the value of what you had
17 stolen, correct?
18 A. For candy bars, sir?
19 Q. A judgment was entered against you for
20 $25,000, the value of what the Court found you had
21 stolen, correct?
22 A. Well, if a candy bar is worth that much,
23 yes, sir.
24 Q. That’s not all you owe Mr. Jackson
25 currently, is it?
26 A. No, sir. I don’t owe him.
27 Q. In fact, Judge Zel Canter of this court,
28 entered a judgment against you and your 5203
1 co-defendants for $1,473,117.61, correct?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. He ordered you pay all of Mr. Jackson’s
4 legal fees and costs, correct?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. Have you ever paid any of that judgment, Mr.
7 Chacon?
8 A. No, sir. I filed bankruptcy.
9 Q. Now, the jury found you not only stole from
10 Mr. Jackson, but you acted maliciously, correct?
11 A. No, sir.
12 Q. Did a judge find you had acted with malice?
13 A. No, sir.
14 Q. Is there a judgment against you for acting
15 with fraud against Mr. Jackson?
16 A. That I know of, no, sir.
17 Q. Would it refresh your recollection to look
18 at the judgment?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?
21 THE COURT: Yes.
22 THE WITNESS: Okay.
23 Oh, it’s there, sir. I didn’t know. Yes,
24 sir.
25 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to
26 look at that judgment, Mr. Chacon?
27 A. Do you mean right now?
28 Q. Yes. 5204
1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. There is not only a judgment against you in
3 favor of Mr. Jackson --
4 MR. SNEDDON: Wait a minute. I’m going to
5 object. He asked to refresh his recollection. He
6 should ask him if it did.
7 MR. MESEREAU: Sure.
8 THE COURT: That’s correct.
9 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to
10 look at the judgment against you, Mr. Chacon?
11 A. I looked at that, yes, sir. But I don’t
12 remember it.
13 Q. Does it refresh your recollection that
14 there’s a judgment against you for fraud and
15 malice --
16 A. No, sir.
17 Q. -- in favor of Mr. Jackson?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. You never heard of that before?
20 A. Well, probably, but I don’t remember.
21 Q. After a six-month trial, you don’t remember?
22 A. Well, it’s been 12 years also, sir, or so.
23 Q. Do you remember stipulating and agreeing
24 that you had personally acted with fraud, oppression
25 and malice against Mr. Jackson?
26 A. Probably so, sir.
27 Q. You did that, didn’t you?
28 A. No, sir. 5205
1 Q. You didn’t stipulate that you had acted with
2 fraud, oppression, and malice against Mr. Jackson in
3 that case?
4 A. Well, yes, sir.
5 Q. After a six-month trial, this is a good way
6 to get even with him, isn’t it?
7 MR. SNEDDON: Argumentative. Object, Your
8 Honor. Move to strike.
9 THE COURT: Sustained.
10 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you have any motive
11 today, sir, to get even with Mr. Jackson?
12 A. No, sir.
13 Q. Do you remember telling a therapist you’d
14 rather get a million dollars from Mr. Jackson than
15 work?
16 A. No, sir.
17 Q. Do you remember being evaluated by a Ph.D.
18 named Dr. Scott Gorsuch?
19 A. I don’t recall, sir.
20 Q. Do you recall being evaluated by a therapist
21 in that lawsuit?
22 A. Probably at one point, but I don’t recall
23 it, sir.
24 Q. Who was your lawyer in that case?
25 A. Mr. Ring from Santa Barbara.
26 Q. Do you remember, in response to being called
27 a malinger, you said, “I’d like just a million from
28 Mr. Jackson”? 5206
1 A. That’s not true, sir.
2 Q. Never happened?
3 A. No, sir.
4 Q. Do you recall making statements you didn’t
5 want to work again?
6 A. No, sir.
7 Q. Okay. After you left Mr. Jackson, you filed
8 for disability, didn’t you?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. You weren’t disabled, were you?
11 A. I think it was just unemployment, wasn’t it?
12 Q. Did you file for disability, Mr. Chacon,
13 after you left Mr. Jackson’s employment?
14 A. It was unemployment, I believe it was.
[...]
21 Q. Okay. All right. Now, at the time you
22 filed your lawsuit against Mr. Jackson, you knew
23 that other former employees at Neverland had sold
24 stories to tabloids about Mr. Jackson, didn’t you?
25 A. Could you rephrase that, sir?
26 Q. Sure. At the time you filed your lawsuit
27 against Mr. Jackson, you were aware that other
28 former employees at Neverland had sold stories to 5224
1 tabloids, correct?
2 A. I don’t understand the “others,” sir. Which
3 others?
4 Q. Blanca Francia?
5 A. No, sir.
6 Q. Never heard of it?
7 A. Oh, yes, I heard of it. But I didn’t -- I
8 wasn’t aware of that.
9 Q. Were you aware of anyone else at Neverland
10 who was employed at one point trying to go to a
11 tabloid to sell a story?
12 A. No, sir.
13 Q. Never heard anything about it?
14 A. No, sir.
15 Q. Okay. Did you ever hear anything about
16 Adrian McManus doing that?
17 A. Well, we went to a tabloid.
18 Q. Which one?
19 A. It was The Star.
20 Q. And who was “we”?
21 A. It was myself, Adrian McManus, Kassim
22 Abdool, and I guess that was it.
23 Q. And approximately when did you go to this
24 tabloid?
25 A. We had met at Mr. Ring’s office in Santa
26 Barbara.
27 Q. And after you met with your attorney, who
28 represented you in the lawsuit, you went to a 5225
1 tabloid, correct?
2 A. Right. Yes, sir.
3 Q. And you wanted money for a story, true?
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. Who did you meet with at the tabloid when
6 you requested money?
7 A. Can you rephrase that, sir?
8 Q. Yes, sir. Who did you meet with when you
9 went to a tabloid to request money?
10 A. Oh, there was myself, Kassim, Adrian, and
11 whoever the reporter was, and Mr. Ring.
12 Q. Your lawyer was there with you, right?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. You did it with your lawyer because you
15 thought that negative publicity would pressure Mr.
16 Jackson into paying all of you money, right?
17 A. No.
18 MR. SNEDDON: Object as argumentative, Your
19 Honor.
20 THE COURT: Overruled. The answer was, “No.”
21 Next question.
22 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: You went to the tabloid
23 before the case was tried to a jury, right?
24 A. I believe so, yes, sir.
25 Q. Had you filed a case before you went to the
26 tabloid?
27 A. I don’t recall, but I believe so, sir.
28 Q. Did you sell a story to the tabloid? 5226
1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. Did you ever hire a broker to help you sell
3 other stories to other tabloids?
4 A. No, sir.
5 Q. Did you ever hear anything about McManus
6 doing that?
7 A. No, sir.
8 Q. Okay. What other tabloids did you speak to?
9 A. None, sir.
10 Q. Just one?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. Just Star?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. But you were aware that McManus went to
15 other tabloids, true?
16 A. No, sir.
17 Q. Just Star?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. Did you ever speak to anyone at Inside
20 Edition?
21 A. No, sir.
22 Q. Okay. How about any other newspaper?
23 A. No, sir.
24 Q. Now, you wanted to sell information about
25 Mr. Jackson allegedly acting wrongfully with young
26 men, correct?
27 A. Yes, sir. To The Star.
28 Q. And you also wanted to sell information 5227
1 about his relationship with Lisa Marie Presley,
2 correct?
3 A. No, sir.
4 Q. Never did that?
5 A. No, sir.
6 Q. Ever hear of any of your co-plaintiffs doing
7 that?
8 A. That I recall, I don’t recall, sir.
9 Q. Don’t recall it at all?
10 A. No, sir.
11 Q. Okay. Was your story printed, to your
12 knowledge?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. Approximately when did that happen?
15 A. I don’t know the date, sir.
16 Q. Any idea at all?
17 A. No, sir.
18 Q. Okay. Can’t even estimate, right?
19 A. No, sir.
20 Q. Okay. All right. How long after you told
21 your co-plaintiff against Mr. Jackson, Mr. Kassim
22 Abdool, about these alleged acts of molestation did
23 you both go to a tabloid?
24 A. Oh, I -- it wasn’t -- it wasn’t right away.
25 But I don’t recall when it was.
26 Q. Okay. It was before you went to law
27 enforcement, wasn’t it?
28 A. No, sir. 5228
1 Q. Was it after it?
2 A. I believe so, sir. I don’t recall.
3 Q. Okay. Mr. Chacon, in late ‘93 and early
4 ‘94, you told other people that Michael Jackson was
5 innocent of molestation accusations, didn’t you?
6 A. No, sir.
7 Q. Never told that to anyone at the ranch?
8 A. No, sir.
9 Q. Okay. Are you familiar with a tabloid
10 called Splash?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. What is Splash?
13 A. I believe it’s a tabloid.
14 Q. Ever met with someone named Peter Burt from
15 Splash?
16 A. I don’t recall, sir.
17 Q. Are you saying you don’t recall, or you
18 don’t -- you didn’t?
19 A. I don’t remember, sir, if I did or not.
20 Q. So you could have, but you don’t remember?
21 A. Could have, but I don’t remember.
22 Q. Okay. Do you know somebody named Sandy
23 Domz?
24 A. Yes, sir.
25 Q. Who was Sandy Domz?
26 A. She was one of the secretaries at Neverland
27 Ranch.
28 Q. Okay. Do you recall Sandy Domz ever 5229
1 approaching a tabloid?
2 A. No, sir.
3 Q. Don’t know anything about it?
4 A. No, sir.
5 Q. All right. Do you recall speaking to a book
6 author named Gutierrez?
7 A. Yes, sir.
8 Q. And approximately when did you speak to a
9 book author named Gutierrez?
10 A. I believe that was before we went to Star,
11 and -- but I don’t remember the -- I don’t remember
12 the date or the time.
13 Q. Okay. Do you remember splitting money from
14 any tabloids with any other employees or former
15 employees of Neverland?
16 A. No, sir.
17 Q. You never split money for giving information
18 to a T.V. show called Inside Edition?
19 A. That I recall, no, sir.
20 Q. So you’re not telling the jury you didn’t do
21 it, you’re just saying, “I don’t recall”?
22 A. Well, I don’t -- I don’t think I did it or
23 we did it, no, sir.
24 Q. You don’t know for sure?
25 A. I just don’t recall if we did or not, sir.
26 Q. You might have, but you don’t remember,
27 right?
28 A. I don’t remember. 5230
The LeMarques too sold stories to tabloids. Their price depended on how salacious a tabloid wanted a story to be. If they paid them $100 000 they said they saw Michael fondling boys, if they paid them $500 000 they were willing to say they saw him put his hand in a boy's pants. BTW, after Michael fired them in 1991 (so they weren't even around when Jordan was there) they ran porn websites from the mid 90s.
So none of these people were credible at all. Just like the jury didn't believe them in 2005, I don't think they would have believed them in 1993.
Those "eye witnesses" said they saw Michael molest boys like Macaulay Culkin, Wade Robson, Brett Barnes. The boys were called to the stand by the defense and testified it never happened. Of course, when they "saw" these alleged molestations happen they just stood by and didn't do a damn thing about it. Actually they only ever came up with such allegations after the Chandler case broke. And they went to tabloids with their stories to get paid for them.
The Neverland 5 were sued by Michael for stealing from him. Michael won that lawsuit and they were ordered to pay him big money. From Ralph Chacon's (one of the Neverland 5) testimony (Kassim Abdool and Adrian McManus were the other two of the Neverland 5 who testified):
23 Q. Okay. We’ll get into that.
24 You sued Mr. Jackson claiming you were
25 wrongfully terminated, right?
26 A. That’s correct, sir.
27 Q. He sued you claiming you had stolen property
28 from him, true? 5202
1 A. That’s correct, sir.
2 Q. The jury found you were not wrongfully
3 terminated by Mr. Jackson, correct?
4 A. But we were, sir.
5 Q. Answer my question, please. Did the Santa
6 Maria jury find you were not wrongfully terminated
7 by Mr. Jackson?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. And they also found you had stolen property
10 from Mr. Jackson, correct?
11 A. But I didn’t, sir.
12 Q. Did the Santa Maria jury find you had stolen
13 property from Mr. Jackson?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. A judgment was entered against you, Mr.
16 Chacon, for $25,000, the value of what you had
17 stolen, correct?
18 A. For candy bars, sir?
19 Q. A judgment was entered against you for
20 $25,000, the value of what the Court found you had
21 stolen, correct?
22 A. Well, if a candy bar is worth that much,
23 yes, sir.
24 Q. That’s not all you owe Mr. Jackson
25 currently, is it?
26 A. No, sir. I don’t owe him.
27 Q. In fact, Judge Zel Canter of this court,
28 entered a judgment against you and your 5203
1 co-defendants for $1,473,117.61, correct?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. He ordered you pay all of Mr. Jackson’s
4 legal fees and costs, correct?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. Have you ever paid any of that judgment, Mr.
7 Chacon?
8 A. No, sir. I filed bankruptcy.
9 Q. Now, the jury found you not only stole from
10 Mr. Jackson, but you acted maliciously, correct?
11 A. No, sir.
12 Q. Did a judge find you had acted with malice?
13 A. No, sir.
14 Q. Is there a judgment against you for acting
15 with fraud against Mr. Jackson?
16 A. That I know of, no, sir.
17 Q. Would it refresh your recollection to look
18 at the judgment?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?
21 THE COURT: Yes.
22 THE WITNESS: Okay.
23 Oh, it’s there, sir. I didn’t know. Yes,
24 sir.
25 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to
26 look at that judgment, Mr. Chacon?
27 A. Do you mean right now?
28 Q. Yes. 5204
1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. There is not only a judgment against you in
3 favor of Mr. Jackson --
4 MR. SNEDDON: Wait a minute. I’m going to
5 object. He asked to refresh his recollection. He
6 should ask him if it did.
7 MR. MESEREAU: Sure.
8 THE COURT: That’s correct.
9 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to
10 look at the judgment against you, Mr. Chacon?
11 A. I looked at that, yes, sir. But I don’t
12 remember it.
13 Q. Does it refresh your recollection that
14 there’s a judgment against you for fraud and
15 malice --
16 A. No, sir.
17 Q. -- in favor of Mr. Jackson?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. You never heard of that before?
20 A. Well, probably, but I don’t remember.
21 Q. After a six-month trial, you don’t remember?
22 A. Well, it’s been 12 years also, sir, or so.
23 Q. Do you remember stipulating and agreeing
24 that you had personally acted with fraud, oppression
25 and malice against Mr. Jackson?
26 A. Probably so, sir.
27 Q. You did that, didn’t you?
28 A. No, sir. 5205
1 Q. You didn’t stipulate that you had acted with
2 fraud, oppression, and malice against Mr. Jackson in
3 that case?
4 A. Well, yes, sir.
5 Q. After a six-month trial, this is a good way
6 to get even with him, isn’t it?
7 MR. SNEDDON: Argumentative. Object, Your
8 Honor. Move to strike.
9 THE COURT: Sustained.
10 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you have any motive
11 today, sir, to get even with Mr. Jackson?
12 A. No, sir.
13 Q. Do you remember telling a therapist you’d
14 rather get a million dollars from Mr. Jackson than
15 work?
16 A. No, sir.
17 Q. Do you remember being evaluated by a Ph.D.
18 named Dr. Scott Gorsuch?
19 A. I don’t recall, sir.
20 Q. Do you recall being evaluated by a therapist
21 in that lawsuit?
22 A. Probably at one point, but I don’t recall
23 it, sir.
24 Q. Who was your lawyer in that case?
25 A. Mr. Ring from Santa Barbara.
26 Q. Do you remember, in response to being called
27 a malinger, you said, “I’d like just a million from
28 Mr. Jackson”? 5206
1 A. That’s not true, sir.
2 Q. Never happened?
3 A. No, sir.
4 Q. Do you recall making statements you didn’t
5 want to work again?
6 A. No, sir.
7 Q. Okay. After you left Mr. Jackson, you filed
8 for disability, didn’t you?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. You weren’t disabled, were you?
11 A. I think it was just unemployment, wasn’t it?
12 Q. Did you file for disability, Mr. Chacon,
13 after you left Mr. Jackson’s employment?
14 A. It was unemployment, I believe it was.
[...]
21 Q. Okay. All right. Now, at the time you
22 filed your lawsuit against Mr. Jackson, you knew
23 that other former employees at Neverland had sold
24 stories to tabloids about Mr. Jackson, didn’t you?
25 A. Could you rephrase that, sir?
26 Q. Sure. At the time you filed your lawsuit
27 against Mr. Jackson, you were aware that other
28 former employees at Neverland had sold stories to 5224
1 tabloids, correct?
2 A. I don’t understand the “others,” sir. Which
3 others?
4 Q. Blanca Francia?
5 A. No, sir.
6 Q. Never heard of it?
7 A. Oh, yes, I heard of it. But I didn’t -- I
8 wasn’t aware of that.
9 Q. Were you aware of anyone else at Neverland
10 who was employed at one point trying to go to a
11 tabloid to sell a story?
12 A. No, sir.
13 Q. Never heard anything about it?
14 A. No, sir.
15 Q. Okay. Did you ever hear anything about
16 Adrian McManus doing that?
17 A. Well, we went to a tabloid.
18 Q. Which one?
19 A. It was The Star.
20 Q. And who was “we”?
21 A. It was myself, Adrian McManus, Kassim
22 Abdool, and I guess that was it.
23 Q. And approximately when did you go to this
24 tabloid?
25 A. We had met at Mr. Ring’s office in Santa
26 Barbara.
27 Q. And after you met with your attorney, who
28 represented you in the lawsuit, you went to a 5225
1 tabloid, correct?
2 A. Right. Yes, sir.
3 Q. And you wanted money for a story, true?
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. Who did you meet with at the tabloid when
6 you requested money?
7 A. Can you rephrase that, sir?
8 Q. Yes, sir. Who did you meet with when you
9 went to a tabloid to request money?
10 A. Oh, there was myself, Kassim, Adrian, and
11 whoever the reporter was, and Mr. Ring.
12 Q. Your lawyer was there with you, right?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. You did it with your lawyer because you
15 thought that negative publicity would pressure Mr.
16 Jackson into paying all of you money, right?
17 A. No.
18 MR. SNEDDON: Object as argumentative, Your
19 Honor.
20 THE COURT: Overruled. The answer was, “No.”
21 Next question.
22 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: You went to the tabloid
23 before the case was tried to a jury, right?
24 A. I believe so, yes, sir.
25 Q. Had you filed a case before you went to the
26 tabloid?
27 A. I don’t recall, but I believe so, sir.
28 Q. Did you sell a story to the tabloid? 5226
1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. Did you ever hire a broker to help you sell
3 other stories to other tabloids?
4 A. No, sir.
5 Q. Did you ever hear anything about McManus
6 doing that?
7 A. No, sir.
8 Q. Okay. What other tabloids did you speak to?
9 A. None, sir.
10 Q. Just one?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. Just Star?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. But you were aware that McManus went to
15 other tabloids, true?
16 A. No, sir.
17 Q. Just Star?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. Did you ever speak to anyone at Inside
20 Edition?
21 A. No, sir.
22 Q. Okay. How about any other newspaper?
23 A. No, sir.
24 Q. Now, you wanted to sell information about
25 Mr. Jackson allegedly acting wrongfully with young
26 men, correct?
27 A. Yes, sir. To The Star.
28 Q. And you also wanted to sell information 5227
1 about his relationship with Lisa Marie Presley,
2 correct?
3 A. No, sir.
4 Q. Never did that?
5 A. No, sir.
6 Q. Ever hear of any of your co-plaintiffs doing
7 that?
8 A. That I recall, I don’t recall, sir.
9 Q. Don’t recall it at all?
10 A. No, sir.
11 Q. Okay. Was your story printed, to your
12 knowledge?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. Approximately when did that happen?
15 A. I don’t know the date, sir.
16 Q. Any idea at all?
17 A. No, sir.
18 Q. Okay. Can’t even estimate, right?
19 A. No, sir.
20 Q. Okay. All right. How long after you told
21 your co-plaintiff against Mr. Jackson, Mr. Kassim
22 Abdool, about these alleged acts of molestation did
23 you both go to a tabloid?
24 A. Oh, I -- it wasn’t -- it wasn’t right away.
25 But I don’t recall when it was.
26 Q. Okay. It was before you went to law
27 enforcement, wasn’t it?
28 A. No, sir. 5228
1 Q. Was it after it?
2 A. I believe so, sir. I don’t recall.
3 Q. Okay. Mr. Chacon, in late ‘93 and early
4 ‘94, you told other people that Michael Jackson was
5 innocent of molestation accusations, didn’t you?
6 A. No, sir.
7 Q. Never told that to anyone at the ranch?
8 A. No, sir.
9 Q. Okay. Are you familiar with a tabloid
10 called Splash?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. What is Splash?
13 A. I believe it’s a tabloid.
14 Q. Ever met with someone named Peter Burt from
15 Splash?
16 A. I don’t recall, sir.
17 Q. Are you saying you don’t recall, or you
18 don’t -- you didn’t?
19 A. I don’t remember, sir, if I did or not.
20 Q. So you could have, but you don’t remember?
21 A. Could have, but I don’t remember.
22 Q. Okay. Do you know somebody named Sandy
23 Domz?
24 A. Yes, sir.
25 Q. Who was Sandy Domz?
26 A. She was one of the secretaries at Neverland
27 Ranch.
28 Q. Okay. Do you recall Sandy Domz ever 5229
1 approaching a tabloid?
2 A. No, sir.
3 Q. Don’t know anything about it?
4 A. No, sir.
5 Q. All right. Do you recall speaking to a book
6 author named Gutierrez?
7 A. Yes, sir.
8 Q. And approximately when did you speak to a
9 book author named Gutierrez?
10 A. I believe that was before we went to Star,
11 and -- but I don’t remember the -- I don’t remember
12 the date or the time.
13 Q. Okay. Do you remember splitting money from
14 any tabloids with any other employees or former
15 employees of Neverland?
16 A. No, sir.
17 Q. You never split money for giving information
18 to a T.V. show called Inside Edition?
19 A. That I recall, no, sir.
20 Q. So you’re not telling the jury you didn’t do
21 it, you’re just saying, “I don’t recall”?
22 A. Well, I don’t -- I don’t think I did it or
23 we did it, no, sir.
24 Q. You don’t know for sure?
25 A. I just don’t recall if we did or not, sir.
26 Q. You might have, but you don’t remember,
27 right?
28 A. I don’t remember. 5230
The LeMarques too sold stories to tabloids. Their price depended on how salacious a tabloid wanted a story to be. If they paid them $100 000 they said they saw Michael fondling boys, if they paid them $500 000 they were willing to say they saw him put his hand in a boy's pants. BTW, after Michael fired them in 1991 (so they weren't even around when Jordan was there) they ran porn websites from the mid 90s.
So none of these people were credible at all. Just like the jury didn't believe them in 2005, I don't think they would have believed them in 1993.