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[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

LindavG said:
^ I haven't followed the AEG trial. What kind of horrible things have come out about Michael? Facts or just accusations?

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I can't say because one of the moderators will say it belongs in the other thread.

You know what, I am going to keep a positive outlook and say if it goes to trial Michael will win based on the fact there are too many inconsistencies and foolishness in the statements already. I refuse to entertain any other verdict. I want the judge to throw the case out. If that does not happen, I want Wade to withdraw. If not, then trial.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I want Wade to withdraw. If not, then trial.
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It will be a miracle if wade withdraw as hes too diluted that he belives in his own lies
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I believe that the allegations are false just as the other allegations. It seems fishy to me that as soon as the family begins to sue, he comes out of the blue.

Michael was not a child molestor.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

8701girl said:
It will be a miracle if wade withdraw as hes too diluted that he belives in his own lies
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I agree, if he refuses to withdraw and continue lying, he's letting karma take over him.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Tom Mesereau said that Michael settled because of his business obligations, back in 1993.

In hindsight, it would have been better for Michael to go to Court to settle the allegation's of 1993, instead of letting these allegation's linger, so to speak, in the air. The Arvizo's banked on the 1993 allegation's, working with some of the same people from 1993.

It would be better to fight the allegation's that Wade is alleging, because of HIStory.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

PoP said:
I agree, if he refuses to withdraw and continue lying, he's letting karma take over him.
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Excatly and lil ol' wade wouldnt want that now would he
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

AliCat said:
Tom Mesereau said that Michael settled because of his business obligations, back in 1993.

In hindsight, it would have been better for Michael to go to Court to settle the allegation's of 1993, instead of letting these allegation's linger, so to speak, in the air. The Arvizo's banked on the 1993 allegation's, working with some of the same people from 1993.

It would be better to fight the allegation's that Wade is alleging, because of HIStory.
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The Arvizo's didn't file a civil claim against MJ as far as I remember.
Actually,while I think of it, did they even formally file a criminal complaint to kick start the criminal investigation? Or did the police start it themselves after the Bashir interview aired? It was 10 years ago(!) and my memory is foggy.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

bobmoo79 said:
The Arvizo's didn't file a civil claim against MJ as far as I remember.
Actually,while I think of it, did they even formally file a criminal complaint to kick start the criminal investigation? Or did the police start it themselves after the Bashir interview aired? It was 10 years ago(!) and my memory is foggy.
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Sneddon and the Child Protection Services did start an investigation after the Bashir interview which was concluded that no molestation happened. (This is why the timeline of the alleged abuse was so ridiculous at the trial. According to that timeline Michael started to molest Gavin AFTER the Bashir docu...)

But in the summer of 2003, after they were kicked out of NL,the Arvizos went to civil lawyer Larry Feldman to enquire about how they could sue Michael for child abuse. Feldman is the same lawyer who represented the Chandlers in 1993 and who won them the settlement... Feldman thought that the Arvizos were nuts and he refused to represent them, besides California law changed since 1993 and now they could not pull what the Chandlers did in 1993 because according to the new law you cannot bring a civil trial ahead of a criminal now, you have to go through a criminal first. So the Arvizos had no choice but to go throug a criminal trial and I think that's when they reported it to Sneddon.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I hope they have a painful death, all of them.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

...and speaking of patterns, here's an Interview with Jordy Chandler... http://www.mjfacts.info/jordie.php ...that does have some semblance to what Gavin said.

That's why it would be better to go to Court, to get Wade on record and see if the same pattern will be in place. Because the Arvizo's banked on the same pattern of the Chandler's in 1993, using the Justice System to gain money. The Arvizo's only saw dollar signs, publicly humiliating Michael Jackson, once again. What they didn't see was Michael Jackson fighting back, in the name of justice and no more taking advantage of him, only in the name of love of money!
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

AliCat said:
...and speaking of patterns, here's an Interview with Jordy Chandler.....that does have some semblance to what Gavin said.

That's why it would be better to go to Court, to get Wade on record and see if the same pattern will be in place. Because the Arvizo's banked on the same pattern of the Chandler's in 1993, using the Justice System to gain money. The Arvizo's only saw dollar signs, publicly humiliating Michael Jackson, once again. What they didn't see was Michael Jackson fighting back, in the name of justice and no more taking advantage of him, only in the name of love of money!
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I don't think it's wise to promote that hater website by putting links here to it. Here is a link to the Jordan-Gardner interview for those who refuse to give clicks to that hater website: http://www.filedropper.com/j-chandler-gardner-interview
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I know, but I just wanted to use the easy to read Interview between Dr. Gardner and Jordy Chandler, so people could see the patterns that other's, who have accused Michael, falsely, are using. Thanks for the other link, much appreciated, although common sense knew the difference between those who say Michael was inappropriate and those of us who believe he wasn't, by comparison.


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This is Jonathan Spence, (behind wheelchair) who I believe was one of the children that Jordy Chandler spoke about when being Interviewed by Dr. Gardner. Michael hurt his hand and went to the same hospital he had when he was burned on his scalp. Michael is wearing his Captain EO costume and brought Jonathan Spence along with him. For sure, if Tom Sneddon thought Jonathan Spence had been abused in a sexual way, Jonathan Spence would have appeared in Court back in 2005 or had been paid off in 1993. Jonathan Spence was not paid off nor was he fondled by Michael Jackson.

Here is the caption for the picture: July 30, 1985 - Michael sprained his right hand during the filming of a dance sequence on the set of Captain EO, and was taken to Brotman Memorial Hospital in Culver City, the same place he had been rushed to eighteen months earlier when he was burned on the set of the Pepsi commercial.

Accompanying him was young Jonathan Spence, a boy (ten or eleven years old) who had been friends with Michael since about the fall of 1984.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

... excuse, me, but... why nobody questions the real issue - Michael did have a very suspicious thing for the boys, it can not be ignored! We can not say... or throw it away like something irrelevant, it does matter... its the fundamental tenet to argue about the allegations of molestation..
He was obsessed with boys, he did like/love to be surrounded by boys, the way he treated the boys who were not his relatives...

Most, I should say 99.99% of all MJ fans can talk about the every other thing but not MJs real relationships with boys, especially 12-13 y.o.

Thats why all the "accusers" can/are able to accuse MJ, MJ gave them the chances, the opportunities, the circumstances, the background, the storylines, HE created the myth, he never stopped until 2003, the LWMJ was the ultimate cause of his... downfall with... the ultimate sacrifice.

Whymost MJ fans want MJ to be innocent if they dont question him-self.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Moonwalker.Fan said:
... excuse, me, but... why nobody questions the real issue - Michael did have a very suspicious thing for the boys, it can not be ignored! We can not say... or throw it away like something irrelevant, it does matter... its the fundamental tenet to argue about the allegations of molestation..
He was obsessed with boys, he did like/love to be surrounded by boys, the way he treated the boys who were not his relatives...

Most, I should say 99.99% of all MJ fans can talk about the every other thing but not MJs real relationships with boys, especially 12-13 y.o.

Thats why all the "accusers" can/are able to accuse MJ, MJ gave them the chances, the opportunities, the circumstances, the background, the storylines, HE created the myth, he never stopped until 2003, the LWMJ was the ultimate cause of his... downfall with... the ultimate sacrifice.

Whymost MJ fans want MJ to be innocent if they dont question him-self.
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MJ was not "obsessed with boys". He befriended families. It was the prosecution and haters and the media, who put focus on the boys, but it was never about the boys. It was about Michael's looking for a family.
Also the children who surrounded him were of both genders. Again, the media likes to put focus on male children, but there were girls as well.

There is a footage from a "documentary" which was meant to slander Michael and put his relationship with boys in a suspicious light. This snippet is about a guy called Damion Stein. He is the son of Glenda Stein of the (in)famous Glenda tapes. Just look at the way the narrator tries to twist it into something sinister by just the way he narrates it. Bashir type of manipulation. But when you shut out the narration and just listen to what Damion actually has to say we get a completely different picture. It was Damion's mother, and not Damion who Michael spent the most time on the phone with and with whom he was bonding the most! So much that her husband got jealous and that's why he taped them.


And befriending children is no proof of a sexual relationship with children either.

You do not need to preach to anyone here because fans who seriously research the cases against him do look into every aspect and consider every possibility and "what ifs". Do not assume anything about us that you do not know. For example, I did read and have the Chandlers book because I wanted to know what they had to say. Actually, it exonerates Michael, even if Ray Chandler's intention is obviously not that. I did read and know every hater argument and I find them lacking.

I consider all evidence, all info together and that's how I make my conclusion that Michael was innocent. I'm convinced he was innocent.


PS: And I tried the link and it works for me. I'd like to know if it does for others or I need to fix it.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Moonwalker.Fan said:
... excuse, me, but... why nobody questions the real issue - Michael did have a very suspicious thing for the boys, it can not be ignored! We can not say... or throw it away like something irrelevant, it does matter... its the fundamental tenet to argue about the allegations of molestation..
He was obsessed with boys, he did like/love to be surrounded by boys, the way he treated the boys who were not his relatives...

Most, I should say 99.99% of all MJ fans can talk about the every other thing but not MJs real relationships with boys, especially 12-13 y.o.

Thats why all the "accusers" can/are able to accuse MJ, MJ gave them the chances, the opportunities, the circumstances, the background, the storylines, HE created the myth, he never stopped until 2003, the LWMJ was the ultimate cause of his... downfall with... the ultimate sacrifice.

Whymost MJ fans want MJ to be innocent if they dont question him-self.
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Just what are you trying to imply here? Michael was friends with both boys and girls, he didn't have an "obsession" about boys. The only thing he's really guilty of is naivete. He chose to see the good in everyone, that's just who he was. That's hardly a crime. Imagine if you could convict a person based on just "suspicions" alone. There would be so many people locked up if that were the case. Michael wasn't, and it was proven in court based on factual evidence, not because people thought his behavior was suspect. That's not how it works and it worries me that someone could think that someone should be found guilty just because their behavior seems "off" to them.

It saddens me to read such things on a Michael Jackson forum.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

CaptainEoLove85 said:
Just what are you trying to imply here? Michael was friends with both boys and girls, he didn't have an "obsession" about boys. The only thing he's really guilty of is naivete. He chose to see the good in everyone, that's just who he was. That's hardly a crime. Imagine if you could convict a person based on just "suspicions" alone. There would be so many people locked up if that were the case. Michael wasn't, and it was proven in court based on factual evidence, not because people thought his behavior was suspect. That's not how it works and it worries me that someone could think that someone should be found guilty just because their behavior seems "off" to them.

It saddens me to read such things on a Michael Jackson forum.
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I have to agree, but obsession means NOTHING. I still don't understand why people believe Michael's friendship with kids is so abnormal, their minds are just so freaking messed up they have to keep feeding on lies not just from media but from haters as well. If anything, it's them they're the ones who are obsessed, they've got a sick obsession in believing Michael is a sick p******** and is happy that people wanting to take adventage of his good will and soul.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Moonwalker.Fan said:
... excuse, me, but... why nobody questions the real issue - Michael did have a very suspicious thing for the boys, it can not be ignored! We can not say... or throw it away like something irrelevant, it does matter... its the fundamental tenet to argue about the allegations of molestation..
He was obsessed with boys, he did like/love to be surrounded by boys, the way he treated the boys who were not his relatives...

Most, I should say 99.99% of all MJ fans can talk about the every other thing but not MJs real relationships with boys, especially 12-13 y.o.

Thats why all the "accusers" can/are able to accuse MJ, MJ gave them the chances, the opportunities, the circumstances, the background, the storylines, HE created the myth, he never stopped until 2003, the LWMJ was the ultimate cause of his... downfall with... the ultimate sacrifice.

Whymost MJ fans want MJ to be innocent if they dont question him-self.
Click to expand...

You know I always see people questioning you and your agenda on the forum, but I never knew you would make this type of insinuation and use the words "obsessed with boys" and "did have a suspicious thing for the boys." I think you have really gone too far, unless the issue is that you are not familiar with the impact those English words you used have?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Moonwalker.Fan said:
... excuse, me, but... why nobody questions the real issue - Michael did have a very suspicious thing for the boys, it can not be ignored! We can not say... or throw it away like something irrelevant, it does matter... its the fundamental tenet to argue about the allegations of molestation..
He was obsessed with boys, he did like/love to be surrounded by boys, the way he treated the boys who were not his relatives...

Most, I should say 99.99% of all MJ fans can talk about the every other thing but not MJs real relationships with boys, especially 12-13 y.o.

Thats why all the "accusers" can/are able to accuse MJ, MJ gave them the chances, the opportunities, the circumstances, the background, the storylines, HE created the myth, he never stopped until 2003, the LWMJ was the ultimate cause of his... downfall with... the ultimate sacrifice.

Whymost MJ fans want MJ to be innocent if they dont question him-self.
Click to expand...

I'm wondering why you are even on a Michael Jackson forum if this is what you believe..? Also, I think you've missed the point, cause -speaking for myself here but I think this counts for the majority- I have 'questioned this issue', that's why I know it's BS. If you have any knowledge about his life, his childhood and his personality you would've come to the same conclusion.
Plus what is that nonsense about him 'creating the myth' by giving them chances and opportunities? He was innocent and never did anything wrong but give his love and care to people. If that creates chances for other people to see you as a criminal, then they should change, NOT him!
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Moonwalker.Fan said:
... excuse, me, but... why nobody questions the real issue - Michael did have a very suspicious thing for the boys, it can not be ignored! We can not say... or throw it away like something irrelevant, it does matter... its the fundamental tenet to argue about the allegations of molestation..
He was obsessed with boys, he did like/love to be surrounded by boys, the way he treated the boys who were not his relatives...

Most, I should say 99.99% of all MJ fans can talk about the every other thing but not MJs real relationships with boys, especially 12-13 y.o.

Thats why all the "accusers" can/are able to accuse MJ, MJ gave them the chances, the opportunities, the circumstances, the background, the storylines, HE created the myth, he never stopped until 2003, the LWMJ was the ultimate cause of his... downfall with... the ultimate sacrifice.

Whymost MJ fans want MJ to be innocent if they dont question him-self.
Click to expand...

WTF??? Why would you be on an MJ forum if you feel this way about him and why would you think that insulting him on his forum would not be offensive to others? This sounds like the same type of hating that a mean gang of haters were famous for at MJFC.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Moonwalker.Fan said:
... excuse, me, but... why nobody questions the real issue - Michael did have a very suspicious thing for the boys, it can not be ignored! We can not say... or throw it away like something irrelevant, it does matter... its the fundamental tenet to argue about the allegations of molestation..
He was obsessed with boys, he did like/love to be surrounded by boys, the way he treated the boys who were not his relatives...

Most, I should say 99.99% of all MJ fans can talk about the every other thing but not MJs real relationships with boys, especially 12-13 y.o.

Thats why all the "accusers" can/are able to accuse MJ, MJ gave them the chances, the opportunities, the circumstances, the background, the storylines, HE created the myth, he never stopped until 2003, the LWMJ was the ultimate cause of his... downfall with... the ultimate sacrifice.

Whymost MJ fans want MJ to be innocent if they dont question him-self.
Click to expand...

What exactly are you trying to say? Are you saying it was Michael's fault that some greedy people decided to take advantage of a man who did nothing but simply befriend and love? And are you trying to say we fans 'want MJ to be innocent'? No hun, he IS innocent. One more thing, sweetie, he wasn't obsessed with boys. There were girls, boys, and parents as well. He was trying to get the childhood he never had. As a kid, how many boys hung out with a bunch of girls? Think about it.

Just because society is jacked up and thinks something is so abnormal, doesn't mean the others do. Lets not forget society has been wrong about a LOT. Don't try and undercover condemn Michael because he didn't have the same beliefs as you.

One more question: Why would you even post that on a fan thread? Kind of offensive if ya ask me.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^It is at times like this that you really learn what some people think of Michael. Sooner or later their true feelings about him come out in their posts. The sad thing is that (1) the man explained why he associated with children. (2) He explained why his skin changed. Both these 2 critical explanations were not believed by a vast majority of people, including this poster. Why?

Even if Michael did not befriend whole "families," which of course he did, it is natural for each sex to hang out with their own sex. Basically, the majority of men do NOT hang out with women only, and the majority of women do NOT hang out with men only. So Michael hanging out with males whether child or adult is not suspicious. It is only suspicious because it is Michael.

Next, she mentions the ages of the children. If you listen to Michael he talks about what he missed as a child. He is focusing on playing, the freedom of childhood, free from routines of rehearsals, traveling, & rushing. At the same time he is an adult with an adult intellect, so it stands to reason that he is going to associate with an age group that can still enjoy child play, but mature enough to have a conversation with, mature enough to understand rules, mature enough to take care of their basic needs, etc. For example, a group of 6-year-olds need help in selecting what they need to wear. 18 year olds don't want to go and do the silly little fun things that Michael wants to experience, e.g., shooting each other with water guns. Additionally, he remembered how he was a young child working in an adult world & how he felt, so when he sees children working on tv or movies he empathizes with their loss, and bonds with them. That is why he befriended kids like "Webster," Alfonse, "home alone" kid. He helped them play even though they were like adults, bringing home the bacon. Notice they all talk about what fun they had, so I guess Michael did do something wonderful for these kids who had to go out and earn a living at an early age. I have never heard any person who hung out with Michael when they were young say they did not have a fun time. Even that Garvin liked being around Michel.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Petrarose said:
^It is at times like this that you really learn what some people think of Michael. Sooner or later their true feelings about him come out in their posts. The sad thing is that (1) the man explained why he associated with children. (2) He explained why his skin changed. Both these 2 critical explanations were not believed by a vast majority of people, including this poster. Why?

Even if Michael did not befriend whole "families," which of course he did, it is natural for each sex to hang out with their own sex. Basically, the majority of men do NOT hang out with women only, and the majority of women do NOT hang out with men only. So Michael hanging out with males whether child or adult is not suspicious. It is only suspicious because it is Michael.

Next, she mentions the ages of the children. If you listen to Michael he talks about what he missed as a child. He is focusing on playing, the freedom of childhood, free from routines of rehearsals, traveling, & rushing. At the same time he is an adult with an adult intellect, so it stands to reason that he is going to associate with an age group that can still enjoy child play, but mature enough to have a conversation with, mature enough to understand rules, mature enough to take care of their basic needs, etc. For example, a group of 6-year-olds need help in selecting what they need to wear. 18 year olds don't want to go and do the silly little fun things that Michael wants to experience, e.g., shooting each other with water guns. Additionally, he remembered how he was a young child working in an adult world & how he felt, so when he sees children working on tv or movies he empathizes with their loss, and bonds with them. That is why he befriended kids like "Webster," Alfonse, "home alone" kid. He helped them play even though they were like adults, bringing home the bacon. Notice they all talk about what fun they had, so I guess Michael did do something wonderful for these kids who had to go out and earn a living at an early age. I have never heard any person who hung out with Michael when they were young say they did not have a fun time. Even that Garvin liked being around Michel.
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Everything you just said-- right on point! It definitely is times like this when you learn people's true feelings about Michael.

In the words of the lovely girl group TLC: It's a Case of the Fake People, and Somethin' Wicked This Way Comes
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I also think the reason why Michael Jackson usually preferred his "Lost Boys" was because I don't believe he was a manwhore. I truly believe he did believe in the Almighty and his son, Jesus Christ and respected women. This is part of the reason Michael got picked on in the media, Michael was an innocent and he wasn't a manwhore, who slept around with women just to score.

Michael was performing in Strip Clubs, starting at age five, to hone their skills, as entertainers for the masses. Even the Beatles performed in Strip Clubs in Germany, for the same reason. Both Michael Jackson and the Beatles are forever synonymous with generation's to come for their superior skills.

Personally, I'd rather Michael Jackson hung out with kid's, than be a manwhore. I doubt I'd be a fan.

Michael Jackson enjoyed helping people. He even quoted Jesus about there is more happiness in giving than in receiving. The thing with Gavin Arvizo was the kid was dying from cancer. He had a huge tumor in his brain. Michael brought him to "Neverland," to relax and enjoy himself, as a child. It worked. Gavin was cured from cancer. Michael even took care of the cost that was incurred from Gavin having cancer. Why would Janet Arvizo go after Michael like that, after helping her son from dying of cancer. This is just sick. How ungrateful she was.

Petrarose, you summed it up beautifully. Show business can bring loads of money, if you don't have any. But, it does rob a child star, and worst, the child star may not even be loved by their own parent's because of unconditional love. Their show business child is just a bank account to them. This is why when the child grows up they end up with issues of trust and love. It wasn't instilled in them from their parent's. Michael Jackson was trying to fill that void with these different children that he came in contact with. He knew that one day they would be a grown up and if they could at least spend some time at "Neverland" it might help in their emotional well being and not turn to drugs to help with the lack of trust and love. Elizabeth Taylor and Michael Jackson were such good friends because this happened to both of them, their child star background. Even when Michael was nearing the end of his life, he still supported children's issues. The future does depend on children and it is better for them to have a happy childhood than not!


 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Moonwalker.Fan U belong on another forum...pretty sure u know which one too! and pretty sure u are a member already!
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

That Childhood video really grips you and that beautiful Michael voice--just waw. Need I mention those big soulful eyes. Thanks for posting Alicat.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Diane dimond was on tv this morning i think spelling out rubbish bout mj child abuse allegations...ugh she makes me sick
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Good god. I wish this would go away where's Thom Mesereau when you need him. Makes me sick to watch the 2009 VMA tribute and see Wade raving about MJ and now he's doing this. Do we know when we may hear more about this? I wanna know what happens with these claims. It's been a while since he first filed them I believe.
 
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