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Do anyone else feel this way? Murray acted with intent

Its not like Murray didnt know what he was doing. This isnt how he normally treated his patients.


MJ was his high profil, high paid patient. Even assuming that MJ persuaded him to give him this treatment. You would think he would have been watching everything like hawk, but no...

We do not know if he was paid to do what he did, or if he had planned it, but he never lifted a finger to help MJ. MJ was not suppose to live.

Words like "'irresponsible" or "negligence" do not cover what happen here
 
Regarding who may have wanted MJ gone:


Thome

He was there at the hospital, although he had been fired

Afterward he was telling journalists that he was still in charge, although he had been fired

Perhaps he thought he could control a late MJ... Well, he couldnt, but he sure did try.

Yes, there was those 5 mil he gave back to the estate, but seriously he only did that to make himself look good.

And he is nowhere to be seen. Out of sight out of mind....
 
Conrad Murray is a "Corporate Hit Man". AEG had no respect for Michael Jackson.
AEG had no respect for Michael Jackson, and they treated Michael Jackson like a "work slave"
Conrad Murray began practicing his medicine in a way he thought would please his
new employer, AEG. He no longer cared about Michael Jackson's health; he treated
Michael Jackson like an inanimate object he needed to maneuver
in order to collect his $150,000 monthly salary. AEG (and possiblly Sony) reinfoced
Conrad Murray and were "pleased" with the medical non-care he provided Michael Jackson.

God is not mocked. The murderers of Michael Jackson will rot in Hell Fire.
 
I think that the trial has "boundaries," and I can function logically within those limitations. I ALSO think that we know almost nothing of the truth, and that Murray's murder of Michael was INTENTIONAL.
 
cinzia said:
I have said before that if in fact murray was 'sleeping' michael for, what...6-8 weeks, with either the benzos and or propofol, what happened to make 25 June different in terms of outcome? Why would he stop monitoring, in his primitive fashion, michael, abandon him to make phone calls or whatever, then f**up the CPR. Why was it more important for him to be on the phone than to watch his patient? Is this what he had been doing all along?
I would love for an accrediting agency such as JCAHO to audit his clinics' medical records and see what kind of care and documentation he normally practices.
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this!

I dont think we will ever get to know the whole truth.
 
CarleyMJ said:
Who takes Propofol into a home...???
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You're right. It would take someone who is chronically negligent, desperate for money, and a complete idiot to boot! I'd be hard-pressed to find a single person who fits all three of these, ehm, qualities...

article-1201467-05B31CAD000005DC-515_224x423.jpg


Gentlemen, I believe I've found the guy! (Stupid smile is a bonus).

I know it's hard to believe someone so deficient would have survived natural selection's culling for so long, but folks, it happens. With that said, I also believe Murray acted with intent by giving Michael propofol. CLEAR intent...to exploit his patient for money and take advantage of his trust and desperation to cure his sleeplessness in time for the tour.

However, intent to kill him seems counterproductive to Murray's likely intentions (taking his various economic woes, both in the domestic and professional front, into account).

The only way I could even halfway entertain a murder hypothesis would be if Murray was acting under someone else's orders, but this seems terribly unlikely due to the fact that he's done such a piss poor job at concealing evidence/pretending to be a decent person, and the overhwelming fact that he's gained nothing since Michael's death. If someone else were involved, particularly among the high-ranking names being dropped as possible participants in a conspiracy to murder Michael, I think the cover-up and pro-Murray PR would have been executed more smoothly--and, of course, they would have given Murray sufficient money to convince him to forfeit his monthly $150,000, not to mention dump his entire career in the proverbial toilet. Considering all the profit, both present and possible future income, that would be (and has been) lost, he would have had to receive a VERY impressive sum--which would not explain how his house is now under foreclosure.

That is, unless he blew it all by taking a three month hiatus consisting of camping outside some sleazy strip club after dinner at Hooter's every day.

Therefore, it would seem unlikely that he would agree to undergo all this for free, and since it is clear he is still in the same economic grave he dug himself into prior to meeting Michael Jackson, (and will most likely be in an even deeper grave once Flanagan, Baldy, and Chernoff collect their fees), it is safe to say he has not received any significant economic rewards as a result of his actions. So, until I see even the sliver of a possible motive/benefit on Murray's part resulting from Michael's death, the murder conspiracy (whether involving Murray as a lone wolf, or including Sony/AEG in the mix) will remain just a hypothesis with no concrete proof to back it up.

I don't entirely disqualify its possibility--it could certainly be possible. However, I find it terribly unlikely.
 
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Why did Murray hate Michael so much? Because you would have to hate someone to treat them this way. What exactly did Michael ever do to Murray to make him do all the things he did to him? The lengthy series of acts that put Michael's life at risk and then the series of acts that almost ensured Michael did not have a chance to survive. It's really hard for me to believe anyone can be this reckless with a human life without it being intentional.
 
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Michael didn't fit his 'scheme' of either young and impressionable female, or equally impressionable older senior. So I'm sure the interactions with Michael differed a lot from that. He also got relegated to 'nurse', only that most nurses wouldn't let the urine bottles hang around. People with such a lovely past such as domestic violence records built up resentment pretty fast- and abusers let their victims PAY, one way or the other.

Abusers don't even need a 'reason' to hate someone. They'll hurt you because they can. They know exactly when to 'drop the ball'- and they DO!

The fact that someone with supposed hospital experience doesn't immediately call for back up looks extremely suspicious. He of all people knows how tightly organized 'codes' are in any hospital setting.

Murray acted fully in the hopes and expectations that the "Dr." in front of his name would let him get off the hook. Try injecting someone with something that turns out to be the death weapon and see how far you get with that.

And what's with the unprofessional garb that day? I bet you a 20 Dollars that Metzger didn't show up at Michael's residence in that kind of get up. House call or not. My pest control company conducts themselves with more professionalism.
 
I guess this is off topic so I'm sorry but I've just been thinking that there must be photos of Murray and Michael together somewhere. I mean, Murray's star struck, ding dong so-called actress "my instrument" girlfriend met Michael many times. There must be some photos of at least them together somewhere. It would be very disturbing to see those photos if they exist.
 
No. There is no evidence of ANY intent that he murdered him. Murray was simply an idiot and he should pay for his actions, definitely. But he wasn't a murderer, and I don't think he had any intent to kill Michael that morning. It was just a series of unfortunate events.
 
Pace said:
I actually can't imagine that too many pics exist if Murray has to resort to taping Michael when he's out of it. Although I shudder to think of pics with 'instrument' and Michael. *shivers*
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Hehe yeah let's hope there are no pics of "instrument" and Michael together. I would give half my salary to know what he really thought of her. I mean, did she discuss her "instrument" with him that way? LOL I hope not.
 
Conrad Murray is liar and a murderer and much worst than I ever imagined.
Always remember Michael Jackson never signed the AEG London contract establishing Murray as his private physician for the concert series. I believe Conrad Murray knew Michael Jackson was never going to sign that AEG contract.
My intuition tells me Conrad Murray acting either alone or with the help of others deliberatey murdered Michael Jackson.

Also, as usual, the night Michael Jackson was murderd no one in the Jackson family was there to watch out for him.
A long time ago, when Michael Jackson was just a little boy, Katherine and Joe Jackson sacrificed him for money and fame.
 
Personally, I dont see any reason for CM to kill Michael. CM had a chance of a lifetime indeed, tons of money, an exciting experience, not to mention the publicity he could have made afterwards. He would not have needed to work for MJ after the tour, considering the amount of money he would have made, some months even without working at all. And if MJ knew he could count on CM for propofol, no doubt he would have turned to him in case he needed it again in the future. That's why he wanted to be the only one caring for Mj's health : hence the comments to Kenny. He wanted to keep Michael under his control.

I believe CM was starstruck, and would have been ready to do anything to keep the job. I believe Shafer when he said the guy had no idea what kind of drugs he was giving, even the benzos. I believe he felt it was ok, he played god.

A murder, even under the influence of anger, would have been covered up much better. When you kill someone, you try not to get caught. He had time, they were alone in the room. A premeditated murder, even more. I mean everything point at CM (ok, I'm biased but still). Even his declaration to the LAPD doesnt match the autopsie report. As a dr, that's the kind of stuff you would think about, I mean, you would know about an autopsie being needed and the things you should say.


I believed he screwed up, and he panicked. It's highly possible he removed the missing tubing and put it in his pocket. But everything afterwards screams complete panic to me, running back and forth, calling people who couldnt do anything, at the same time pretending to take care of Michael and hiding as many things as he could. Of course he didnt call 911, he wanted to avoid strangers in the house, because then his secret "treatment" would be known. I believe he was hoping things could be fixed without having anyone from the outside knowing. And there comes the sociopath theory : he put himself first, always. I dont think he cared too much about Michael, I think he was terrified because people would know about HIM doing something he knew perfectly was extremely serious and wrong.
That's also why he played the good doctor part afterwards at UCLA : guilty people try to hide, they flee; not the good doctor who stayed, comforted the family and took care of everything (which we all know is not true). All an act. Like pretending to tell the LAPD where the bags were, because he thought, as Chernoff, that they already had found them.

CM is an idiot, and a jerk. He deliberately put Michael's life in danger, which is inexcusable. He, as a doctor, gave incredible amounts of dangerous drugs to a patient without any monitoring at all. Michael is apparently the one and only patient who was treated that recklessly. The only reason he did it was the money he made out of it. Period.
But MJ being dead, CM's name is dragged though the mud, his cash cow is gone. I dont see what he got out of it. What if he believed MJ would not take him to London after all? What's the point of killing him? Is it better to be in a court room ever day?

If CM actually deliberately murdered Michael, he's the worst murderer in history. Any idiot out there watching TV cold have done a much better job.






@Cherubim, I totally agree with : "A long time ago, when Michael Jackson was just a little boy, Katherine and Joe Jackson sacrificed him for money and fame."

It's exactly what they're doing now, with his three children. The picture you use is the perfect example of it.
 
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No offense or disrespect CherubimII, but I think we need to be very careful with making statements like the ones you've made in your last two posts... I think we all feel angry, confused, lonely, sad and lost at everything this trial has brought to light and forced us, sometimes suddenly and mercilessly, to deal with. And with so many emotions at play it is very easy to just blame everyone and their mother for what happened -- to just say "it was his intent! he wanted MJ dead!" or "it's a conspiracy! they all wanted to kill MJ and Murray turned out to be the perfect guy for the job!" is so much easier to accept than the inexplicable recklessness and negligence he showed in his care of MJ in the weeks leading up to his death and the way he behaved when he found out Michael wasn't breathing, isn't it?

But there's no proof for any of that, and they are very, very serious accusations to make. What we have is what the prosecution and defense in this trial have presented to us, and they tell me the following:

- The fact that he recorded Michael while he was unaware of it and under the influence shows me Murray might not have "loved" Michael, as he claimed, or respected him much. We can speculate why this was -- disappointment, annoyance, whatever -- but I think the prosecution put it well enough: Murray's relationship with Michael was not one of doctor and patient, but one of employer and employee.

- The extraordinary payment sum (5.000.000) he initially asked for and the very high payment sum (150.000 per month) he was eventually offered, and accepted, shows me he probably saw this job as a financial solution for many things that were happening to him personally and professionally. Money was definitely a big motivator for him when it came to this assignment.

- Him claiming that MJ was fine at meetings with Kenny and the AEG guys and getting in Kenny's face, saying he should worry about directing the show and let him, the doctor, worry about Michael's health, shows me he might've been scared about their worries escalating and affecting his job security.

- Trying to wane MJ off propofol after administering it to him for two months was a completely ludicrous idea -- very risky and very experimental because no one has ever received those amounts of propofol over such a long period of time and because of this no one has ever been addicted to or dependent on propofol (as MJ might very well have been), and so he had NO IDEA what kind of withdrawal effects might arise. This might very well have directly contributed to Michael's death.

- The fact that he did not document ANYTHING during his treatment of MJ is ridiculous. It betrays Michael's trust and robs his family of knowing *exactly* what happened.

- His behavior on the night of the 25th is inexcusable -- I don't think I need to repeat all the mistakes he made on that night as they have been covered in detail by the prosecution and in many threads on this forum.

There is no doubt in my mind that Murray's actions led to Michael's death. They were reckless, dangerous, extremely negligent, and I find it incomprehensible that a doctor can behave the way he did. However, I see no evidence whatsoever that he did what he did with the intent of killing Michael. He must have known that what he was doing was dangerous and extremely risky, and he must have worried about people finding out about it even before anything went wrong, but he kept doing it anyway because of money. I believe Murray is responsible for Michael's death, and I think he deserves a much heavier punishment than what he is facing right now, but I do not believe he killed Michael intentionally.
 
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Ben said:
Personally, I dont see any reason for CM to kill Michael. CM had a chance of a lifetime indeed, tons of money, an exciting experience, not to mention the publicity he could have made afterwards. He would not have needed to work for MJ after the tour, considering the amount of money he would have made, some months even without working at all. And if MJ knew he could count on CM for propofol, no doubt he would have turned to him in case he needed it again in the future. That's why he wanted to be the only one caring for Mj's health : hence the comments to Kenny. He wanted to keep Michael under his control.

I believe CM was starstruck, and would have been ready to do anything to keep the job. I believe Shafer when he said the guy had no idea what kind of drugs he was giving, even the benzos. I believe he felt it was ok, he played god.

A murder, even under the influence of anger, would have been covered up much better. When you kill someone, you try not to get caught. He had time, they were alone in the room. A premeditated murder, even more. I mean everything point at CM (ok, I'm biased but still). Even his declaration to the LAPD doesnt match the autopsie report. As a dr, that's the kind of stuff you would think about, I mean, you would know about an autopsie being needed and the things you should say.


I believed he screwed up, and he panicked. It's highly possible he removed the missing tubing and put it in his pocket. But everything afterwards screams complete panic to me, running back and forth, calling people who couldnt do anything, at the same time pretending to take care of Michael and hiding as many things as he could. Of course he didnt call 911, he wanted to avoid strangers in the house, because then his secret "treatment" would be known. I believe he was hoping things could be fixed without having anyone from the outside knowing. And there comes the sociopath theory : he put himself first, always. I dont think he cared too much about Michael, I think he was terrified because people would know about HIM doing something he knew perfectly was extremely serious and wrong.
That's also why he played the good doctor part afterwards at UCLA : guilty people try to hide, they flee; not the good doctor who stayed, comforted the family and took care of everything (which we all know is not true). All an act. Like pretending to tell the LAPD where the bags were, because he thought, as Chernoff, that they already had found them.

CM is an idiot, and a jerk. He deliberately put Michael's life in danger, which is inexcusable. He, as a doctor, gave incredible amounts of dangerous drugs to a patient without any monitoring at all. Michael is apparently the one and only patient who was treated that recklessly. The only reason he did it was the money he made out of it. Period.
But MJ being dead, CM's name is dragged though the mud, his cash cow is gone. I dont see what he got out of it. What if he believed MJ would not take him to London after all? What's the point of killing him? Is it better to be in a court room ever day?

If CM actually deliberately murdered Michael, he's the worst murderer in history. Any idiot out there watching TV cold have done a much better job.
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Yeah! That! Totally agree! There is no reason to believe otherwise.
 
You all can think and believe whatever you want concerning Conrad Murray.
I will waste none of my life defending Conrad Murray, who is a total sociopath.
I don't feel the need to make excuses for Conrad Murray. His actions speak for themselves.
I believe Conrad Murray is a liar, and I believe Conrad Murray murdered Michael Jackson.
 
We can all think and believe whatever we want about CM. I believe only 2 people will ever know the truth, and one of them cant talk anymore. We all see the evidence and the people in a different way. I believe CM lied to the LAPD for starters, and I'm pretty sure he lied to Michael also, regarding his "monitoring"; no way would Michael have agreed if he had known the risks he was taking.
I've explained my opinion so far, I'm always interested in what others see, or how they understand things, as well as new facts.
 
Dear Ben,

There are Evil people in this world. Conrad Murray is one of them.
Allow me to quote Michael Jackson:

Blood is on the Dance Floor

"Susie got your number
And Susie ain't your friend
Look who dug you under
Seven inches in
Blood is on the dance floor
Blood is on the knife
Susie's got your number
And Susie's says is right

She got your number
How does it feel
To know this stranger
Is about to kill..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhTNOg9Eg2M&feature=related


 
I dont believe I said I thought CM was a decent guy. He's a liar, he's greedy, he's a despicable human being on many aspects. All I'm saying is : so far, from what I know, there's nothing that makes me think he did it on purpose. I believe he played god with Michael's life on purpose though, meaning that he was perfectly aware what he was doing was dangerous.
 
Ben said:
I dont believe I said I thought CM was a decent guy. He's a liar, he's greedy, he's a despicable human being on many aspects. All I'm saying is : so far, from what I know, there's nothing that makes me think he did it on purpose. I believe he played god with Michael's life on purpose though, meaning that he was perfectly aware what he was doing was dangerous.
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Perhaps we can both agree Conrad Murray is GUILTY AS CHARGED!!!
 
It's manslaughter, through and through. Murray is a complete fool and needs to spend time behind bars, and should NEVER be able to practice again. But there is absolutely no proof in his "intent" to kill Michael. As someone already said, why would he kill his meal ticket?
 
kindofdisco said:
It's manslaughter, through and through. Murray is a complete fool and needs to spend time behind bars, and should NEVER be able to practice again. But there is absolutely no proof in his "intent" to kill Michael. As someone already said, why would he kill his meal ticket?
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Here are two possible answers to your "Why would he kill his meal ticket"?

1. Michael Jackson never signed Conrad Murray's AEG London contract.
I think Michael Jackson had decided to not use Conrad Murray for his London tour. Conrad Murray, the sociopath could not handle this, and he chose to deliberately make "Michael Jackson unwell" .


AND/OR

2. Suppose, Conrad Murray found another "Meal Ticket" with more money;
who, also, did not wish Michael Jackson well.


"Doctors make the best assassins."
quote from Dick Gregory.
 
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kissybissy said:
I don't think he wanted Michael dead, not only because of the consequences (he's facing now) of having a high profile celebrity dying in his hands, but also MJ represented a golden eggs chicken for him. He would never find someone to pay U$ 150,000,00 dollars per month. No way.

His behaviour, the way he hangs up, after noticing MJ is not breathing. His despair trying to make MJ come back. Even this phone call to to Michael Amir saying Michael had a bad reaction and asking him to come immediately.

In his own negligent way, Murray was trying to make Michael sleep and unfortunately he ended up killing Michael.
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Excellent and logical point, KissyB! It makes no sense that he would want his meal ticket dead, especially since the contract wasn't signed yet. Murray gave up his other patients in Houston and Vegas to be Mike's doctor. Murray had way too much to lose with Michael dead. He was negligent and stupid, but I'm not buying that he had intended to kill him. You don't need intent to kill.

I know the conspiracy theorists don't want to hear that, but it is what it is and speculation isn't FACT (nor is it admissible in court).
 
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Definition of murder 2 according to the CA penal code : reckless disregard for risk endangering human life

To me, it's the definition of what CM did.

@Cherubim : I totally agree, doctor make the best assassins. Because they know how not to get caught. CM is on trial, when he could have done everything not to be suspected.
 
I don't like thinking about these conspiracy theories but I can't help it. I just find it incredibly difficult to believe any doctor can be this negligent on so many levels. I mean, the list of things he did wrong just goes on and on and on. And maybe Michael wasn't Murray's real meal ticket as Cherubim implies. Let's see what happens after Murray is convicted (let's pray) and he serves his miniscule time in jail and/or probation. I would love to know what his life$tyle will be like then.
 
According to Dr. Shafer there are 17 "egregious" violations of the standard of care committed by Dr Murray, any one of which could have led to a "catastrophic outcome." How does that not equal a risk for endangering human life? That makes it murder 2.
 
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