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Fireplaces & Oxygen

summer

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I don't know where to post this, and I didn't want it to go "under" because it's another thing that's pretty important in the whole thing. It just came into my mind today. Why it didn't cross my mind earlier, I don't know...maybe because there has been SO MUCH to process, and it's all SO unbelievable...

Anyways, weren't there reports that when the paramedics got to the room MJ was in...it was really hot because the FIREPLACE was on??? That means...there was OPEN FIRE. In the same room, where Dr. Murray had OXYGEN TANKS??! And if anyone wonders why this is relevant...it's important for two reasons. Because ANYONE who has ever had to do with oxygen bottles knows that the SAFETY RULE number one is that there should not be ANY kind of fire ANYWHERE near the bottles. So that would be reason number one, why it's important and relevant. Reason number two is that did Dr. Murray know that and ignored it? Or did he not know it? Either way, that would be another huge mistake he made and shows he either had absolutely NO IDEA about what he was doing, or he knew all the risks but didn't care. No matter which one you pick, it speaks against him. If paramedics can prove the fireplace was on and had a fire in it, and there were oxygen tanks in the same room...the prosecution has another thing they can use against Dr. Murray. And if the defense tries to say there were no oxygen tanks...Murray is even in MORE trouble because if he was giving all those drugs that can effect a patients breathing and he has no oxygen available...he's in even more trouble. So no matter how you turn it...it doesn't work for him.

Does anyone have links to the articles that said the fireplace was on? Of course the only people who could witness that woudl be that bodyguard who came in and the paramedics...but if they saw fire in the fireplace in the same room Murray had oxygen tanks....that's another sign of malpractise.
 
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Re: Fire places & Oxygen

Maybe he took the oxygen tanks out before he put the fire on to keep Michaels dead body warm
 
Re: Fire places & Oxygen

TomV87 said:
Maybe he took the oxygen tanks out before he put the fire on to keep Michaels dead body warm
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Well...wasn't MJ not breathing and he was giving him CPR??? He would NEED oxygen there. So, that option won't work. IF the fireplace was on...you can't twist it to his favor in any way. Like I said...if there was fire and the tanks were there...he was not paying attention to any safety precautions that are needed to SAFELY use oxygen...and if there were no oxygen tanks and MJ was not breathing, then that's even WORSE if he was giving his patient Propofol and didn't have oxygen at hand.
 
The fireplaces were probably the ones that are gas. As far as safety, I don't know if that makes a difference. It could be considered safe if the tanks were far away. It is an interesting point. The whole fireplaces on doesn't make sense anyway. I think they were turned on to keep the body warm after he passed, Murray was trying to cover up, IMO.
 
Like lighting a match while pumping gas or filling a propane tank at the gas station. So idiotic, but not surprising since Murray has already proven his level of intelligence and incompetency.
 
I thought about how dangerous it was to have oxygen tanks in the house, and those chefs, why didn't they try to find out what was going on, as usual everyone worrying about themselves and not Michael, there was obviously something sinister going on.
 
Great point Summer. Murray can't wriggle his way out of this one.

I too would like to see links to those articles about the fire & room temp.
 
I agree with the posters who say about the Fireplace was on to stifling levels to keep MJ's body warm and make it seem death was later than it really was.

Interesting point Summer. I think one of 3 things is possible. The two you mentioned, and then the one that the fireplace was only lit once MJ died for the above reason. All 3 possibilities do not bode well for Murray.
 
they said Michael was the one who was using the fireplace in mid-june because he was very cold, but was Michael really that sick? and how can they be sure that's true if no one was allowed upstairs? if he would've shown syptoms that would make him use the fireplace when it's so hot outside then that would make him seriously sick
I think that was the first time the fireplace was used and it was to keep Michael's body warm....I know Murray didn't mean to intentionally kill Michael, but all the things he did to him before and after he died show so much disrespect and disregard for Michael and his life and his dignity, it makes me sick, it almost turns him into a killer Michael didn't deserve to die like this!
 
snowhite said:
they said Michael was the one who was using the fireplace in mid-june because he was very cold, but was Michael really that sick? and how can they be sure that's true if no one was allowed upstairs? if he would've shown syptoms that would make him use the fireplace when it's so hot outside then that would make him seriously sick
I think that was the first time the fireplace was used and it was to keep Michael's body warm....I know Murray didn't mean to intentionally kill Michael, but all the things he did to him before and after he died show so much disrespect and disregard for Michael and his life and his dignity, it makes me sick, it almost turns him into a killer Michael didn't deserve to die like this!
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Well if MJ wants to have the fireplace on in the middle of the summer, then why not. Go for it, I'd say. But the point is that even if MJ insisted on having the fireplace on...as soon as you bring oxygen tanks into the room, any RESPONSIBLE person and any person with enough KNOWLEDGE about the safety measures should have said "No can do". We can't know for sure if the fireplace indeed was on...but if it was...then that is just another sign of Murray not having a clue of what he was doing...OR...he knew about all the dangers with Propofol, and knew it's not safe to have oxygen in the same room in which the fireplace is on...but he just chose to ignore all that. Which shows how irresponsible he was. Or how DUMB he was. Either one. And him saying "But Michael INSISTED" won't help him one bit. We have patients insisting on all kinds of things all the time too but that doesn't mean we do what they want, simply because what they suggest is either not safe or tehre is absolutely no need or no reason.(Number one BRILLIANT suggestion from some BRIGHT parents is that we turn the i.v. drip on a higher rate. Some figure out in their brilliant minds that if the fluid goes in quicker, the child gets better quicker. Uhm...right! :doh: :lol: Or we should give their child something against "fever" when their child has normal temperature (but they don't know what normal temperature is)...or another good one is that we should keep giving their kid something for "pain"...and while they ask us, the child is sleeping like a baby with a smile on their face....or they tell us to give antibiotics when there is absolutely no need for them...but they think the child needs antibiotics because only antibiotics will cure the child. (And of course we just work there...we don't know what we are doing of course...but the parents who have no medical background WHAT SO EVER of course know much better than we do...:rolleyes: :doh: :lol:).
 
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summer said:
I don't know where to post this, and I didn't want it to go "under" because it's another thing that's pretty important in the whole thing. It just came into my mind today. Why it didn't cross my mind earlier, I don't know...maybe because there has been SO MUCH to process, and it's all SO unbelievable...

Anyways, weren't there reports that when the paramedics got to the room MJ was in...it was really hot because the FIREPLACE was on??? That means...there was OPEN FIRE. In the same room, where Dr. Murray had OXYGEN TANKS??! And if anyone wonders why this is relevant...it's important for two reasons. Because ANYONE who has ever had to do with oxygen bottles knows that the SAFETY RULE number one is that there should not be ANY kind of fire ANYWHERE near the bottles. So that would be reason number one, why it's important and relevant. Reason number two is that did Dr. Murray know that and ignored it? Or did he not know it? Either way, that would be another huge mistake he made and shows he either had absolutely NO IDEA about what he was doing, or he knew all the risks but didn't care. No matter which one you pick, it speaks against him. If paramedics can prove the fireplace was on and had a fire in it, and there were oxygen tanks in the same room...the prosecution has another thing they can use against Dr. Murray. And if the defense tries to say there were no oxygen tanks...Murray is even in MORE trouble because if he was giving all those drugs that can effect a patients breathing and he has no oxygen available...he's in even more trouble. So no matter how you turn it...it doesn't work for him.

Does anyone have links to the articles that said the fireplace was on? Of course the only people who could witness that woudl be that bodyguard who came in and the paramedics...but if they saw fire in the fireplace in the same room Murray had oxygen tanks....that's another sign of malpractise.
Click to expand...

The problem is - when fire is on, oxygen explodes. If the fire were on, the house would be burned to the ground. It is a highly explosive combustible agent. I think the heat was on because someone turned up a thermostat - not the fire in a fireplace...
 
LindaC781 said:
The problem is - when fire is on, oxygen explodes. If the fire were on, the house would be burned to the ground. It is a highly explosive combustible agent. I think the heat was on because someone turned up a thermostat - not the fire in a fireplace...
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Well for Murray's sake I hope so. Not sure if the place would blow up right away if MJ has oxygen via mask (can't imagine him having needed much of oxygen) and the fireplace was futher away, so not sure if the room would have been filled with so much oxygen that it would instantly blow up. But you never know and it would be a HUGE risk to take and test. And especially if you take the bottles too close to the fireplace. If it was the thermostat, that wold be another interesting point....did MJ always have the place that hot...? Because if he didn't....it would take a pretty long time for the room to heat up to REALLY hot with a thermostat, I'd think? I mean, we are not talking about a room of the size of a closet...it was a big room...so I'd imagine one would need at least an hour to get it HOT with normal heating. So if the heating was turned up (or turned on) to keep the body warm, it would have needed to be turned on way before the 911 call was made....
 
the paramedics said the room was very hot when they got there, I just don't think Michael would turn up the heat like that in mid-summer... I don't know maybe it's just me
 
Well I wouldn't put anything past Murray. He was no brain surgeon. I totally believe that the fireplace was on to keep the room warm. Maybe he did CPR without the oxygen mask, like you would do at an accident site .. you know how they teach you in the first aid class. I really don't know but I don't trust anything that Murray says.
 
I remember reading an interview with someone who said that Michael liked to have fires blazing and music playing all the time at home, to make it feel 'homely'.
 
Redridinghood said:
I remember reading an interview with someone who said that Michael liked to have fires blazing and music playing all the time at home, to make it feel 'homely'.
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If Murray dragged the oxygen tanks in the room night after night and left the fireplace on they were lucky nothing happened. Instead of "Propofol intoxication" we could have been reading about a "deadly explosion". How could Michael ever trust that idiot?
 
I acually think the connection between the fire place and Michael's body temperature is far more important.

The reason is that coroners determine the time of death by the persons body temperature... calculating the standard rate in which the temperature drops after they die; the thing is that this drop is directly affected by the room temperature, which means that if the room was really hot, that would slow down the temperature drop and docs would estimate a much later time of death, highly convenient to Murray.
 
Hey, did the chef say she saw Murray taking oxygen tanks away downstairs? If so at what time? Maybe this was when he turned up the fire?
 
I don't buy michael wanted it blazing hot.

Do you all remember that pic of michael out shopping and he had on that green ed hardy looking jacket, the black fedora, and surgical mask on. And some ppl on the board was talking about they don't see how he's wearing that because in LA it was so hot. Then after the next few stops the pics from the same day had michael with his the sleeve's to his green jacket ROLLED UP. lol Baby doll was HOT that day. So I don't think michael was so sick he would request the room being THAT hot.
 
daisydaisy said:
Hey, did the chef say she saw Murray taking oxygen tanks away downstairs? If so at what time? Maybe this was when he turned up the fire?
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No, she saw him carry tanks downstairs over the course of her working there not on the 25th. On the 25th that piece of garbage never came downstairs, except for when he yelled for prince.
 
Mikejoefan said:
No, she saw him carry tanks downstairs over the course of her working there not on the 25th. On the 25th that piece of garbage never came downstairs, except for when he yelled for prince.
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Thanks for clearing that up. I knew I heard her say that but forgot when she said it was.
 
I would also like to see some articles mentioning the fireplace being on.
 
yea u not supposed to smoke near an oxygen tank. it can explode.

add this to the long list of stupid and incompetent things murray did wrong. good find
 
This is actually a very astute observation. Open fires next to oxygen tanks is an explosive combination. An obvious fire-hazard. I don't totally buy the idea that Michael receieved propofol for six WEEKS. Only Murray is saying that. That could very well be a cover-story. On the morning he died, nobody said oxygen tanks were brought downstairs. Were they found, later? WERE they?

If there were no oxygen tanks, why not? Because Murray never intended to save Michael?

The bit about the fireplaces, I've never seen in print (with source). I think it was a leak by LAPD? I do remember hearing it on CNN, though.

There is just too much we don't know. I sure hope the LAPD are interviewing all staff, in detail. I doubt they are, though. This will be a simple manslaughter case. Murray will plea-bargain, and then this stuff will NEVER come out. Sad, but that's what I think will happen.
 
Soso Deaf said:
actually vic, it was kai chase, the chef, who saw them pushing in oxy tanks
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I remember hearing her saying that she saw the tanks. I don't recall if she said she saw them on June 25th? Anyone remember that?

There are conflicting reports about what was found in the house. Was there anything official said about oxygen tanks being found on the 25th? I don't trust anything found (or not found) after the house was not declared a crime-scene. Including bags of marijuana that may or may not have been planted. I read that the weed was MOLDY? Euuuu. Probably had been sitting in a police evidence room for too long? Just wondering. . . . .
 
Yes grt point! Oxygen and open flames DO NOT mix at all and the so called doctor would have been and still can be very liable for this. Especially in the trial.
I know people have used ether in the past to put patients to sleep and it reacts just like any other drug to make you go to sleep and if you have any heater, fire or gas going the whole room would explode.
The doctor is an idiot anyway....
 
Interesting observation. I know that patients who use oxygen at home put signs on their front doors that oxygen is in use and that guests and even delivery people can not smoke.

FWIW, I googled "home oxygen use + fireplace" and found that fireplaces can be used with a proper screen, as long as the oxygen is used at least ten feet from the fireplace.

I tend to believe the fireplace was cranked up after Michael could not be revived to keep the body temp from cooling, when no oxygen was in use.
 
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